Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[theopenlink22]

Didn't see that many match ups, It was a "Wow I didn' know that" Wow.

 

[jam1garner]

Didn't see that many match ups, It was a "Wow I didn' know that" Wow.

Thanks. Just making sure it wasn't bad or anything.

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

I agree, this is the reason L-canceling was removed as there is no reason not to do it when possible.

How much endlag does it have? If it's unpunishable I agree, but if doing it at close range means you get hit, there's a reason to not always do it. I thought L-canceling was removed because it's a superfluous input.

 

[theopenlink22]

Not many frames at all. Quick and easy, just roll back and use. You all should check out the link down below for a tournament me and @jojr124 are doing!

 

[jam1garner]

How much endlag does it have? If it's unpunishable I agree, but if doing it at close range means you get hit, there's a reason to not always do it. I thought L-canceling was removed because it's a superfluous input.

My point is that whenever you can do it, you should do it. @Cirby64 is saying something Similar about how you want to have a clone. Always. If you can L-cancel, you should. Always. The only reason not to make a clone is if you are about to be attacked (As you said.) It's pretty brainless to just go "near me? Nope, clone", so I wouldn't really count that as having to think or know whether it is a good option. L-canceling is the same sort of thing, but with a even smaller amount of times you shouldn't do it. This isn't exactly my opinion, but the Devs seem to be against this sort of thing and I think (maybe) that what I'm talking about is what Cirby is trying to put his finger on. I would suggest reducing CPU control of the clone to just movement. Perhaps mimicking attacks, but move independently and add a little more cool down. Plus side for Forsburn players - Skill can more directly translate to power. People who want more to the clone - Less RNG, can't be "spammed" (but not really spammed in the first place), and feeling less like using a pokeball in smash. Another change suggestion I have heard is the clone costs 1 smoke. (That sounded a lot shadier than intended)

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

My point is that whenever you can do it, you should do it. @Cirby64 is saying something Similar about how you want to have a clone. Always. If you can L-cancel, you should. Always. The only reason not to make a clone is if you are about to be attacked (As you said.) It's pretty brainless to just go "near me? Nope, clone", so I wouldn't really count that as having to think or know whether it is a good option. L-canceling is the same sort of thing, but with a even smaller amount of times you shouldn't do it. This isn't exactly my opinion, but the Devs seem to be against this sort of thing and I think (maybe) that what I'm talking about is what Cirby is trying to put his finger on. I would suggest reducing CPU control of the clone to just movement. Perhaps mimicking attacks, but move independently and add a little more cool down. Plus side for Forsburn players - Skill can more directly translate to power. People who want more to the clone - Less RNG, can't be "spammed" (but not really spammed in the first place), and feeling less like using a pokeball in smash. Another change suggestion I have heard is the clone costs 1 smoke. (That sounded a lot shadier than intended)

I didn't even think of having it cost smoke, that's a pretty good idea, although you couldn't have a clone and charged down b, and smoke is really easy to clear out if you keep rushing Forsburn. The reason I say superfluous is that it created a wall for casual players to get into competitive, which is exactly what Sakurai didn't want. Using side b is just a matter of knowing that move's good. I do agree it needs changes, although I don't think Forsburn needs a nerf. If your clone acted just like a ice climber partner (with some options to desync) I'd call that a good enough change to warrant something like a 10 second cooldown or costing 1 smoke.

 

[Bi_o]

My point is that whenever you can do it, you should do it. @Cirby64 is saying something Similar about how you want to have a clone. Always. If you can L-cancel, you should. Always. The only reason not to make a clone is if you are about to be attacked (As you said.) It's pretty brainless to just go "near me? Nope, clone", so I wouldn't really count that as having to think or know whether it is a good option. L-canceling is the same sort of thing, but with a even smaller amount of times you shouldn't do it. This isn't exactly my opinion, but the Devs seem to be against this sort of thing and I think (maybe) that what I'm talking about is what Cirby is trying to put his finger on. I would suggest reducing CPU control of the clone to just movement. Perhaps mimicking attacks, but move independently and add a little more cool down. Plus side for Forsburn players - Skill can more directly translate to power. People who want more to the clone - Less RNG, can't be "spammed" (but not really spammed in the first place), and feeling less like using a pokeball in smash. Another change suggestion I have heard is the clone costs 1 smoke. (That sounded a lot shadier than intended)

I actually like the idea of expending smoke to get the clone, and I'm assuming you mean smoke that you've absorbed already.

(Actually, just throwing out the idea, but what if you could get the clone without expending a charge if you had full charge. The amount of smoke required for full might need to be raised to compensate, but it's just an idea I want to run by you guys.)

If that doesn't seem feasible, then I could potentially see why, but people might have a bit of an issue with potentially losing their combustion if they wanted a clone. I'm saying this because most of the time, a fairly decent opponent should not be giving you many opportunities to sit on stage and collect smoke, so the majority of people tend to wait to do it once they take their opponent's stock, or they do it when their opponent is recovering or just playing passively, and then people might not like the idea of taking more time to create/inhale more smoke just so they can have a clone for an advantage for the next stock or for the next neutral interaction. So while I like the idea behind it, it might turn people away from using the clone as much, and in turn Forsburn might not see as much play at his full potential.

Also, just to clarify, are you proposing that the clone become Rivals' equivalent of Nana?

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

,
Also, just to clarify, are you proposing that the clone become Rivals' equivalent of Nana?

A nana that dies in one hit, but respawns before you lose a stock. You have to spend time later in the match to make it come back, instead of spending time saving your partner.

 

[Bi_o]

A nana that dies in one hit, but respawns before you lose a stock. You have to spend time later in the match to make it come back, instead of spending time saving your partner.

Oh, I wasn't saying it was a bad idea or anything, I was just wondering if that was specifically what he meant. So, yeah, I could see that being an interesting way to take the clone.

*From here on out, this is addressed to anyone that wants to reply*

And returning to what I said previously, I'd like to retract my statement about how this would cause people to not use the clone and therefore not use Forsburn as well as they could be. I'm changing my mind after giving it some thought, and I came up with something new, so if you guys want to point something out or ask for clarification, then please do. What I'm thinking now is that doing something like this could potentially create a larger set of play-styles for potential Forsburn players: Those with good clone mechanics/clone awareness (would probably end up being similar to the Ice Climbers) and those who do not use the clone to the same extent (I'm thinking along the lines of Marth, mostly just 'cause of the weapon). While Forsburn is already a pretty good character in his own right, if, for instance, these changes to the clone benefit Forsburn more than the current clone mechanics do, then that would probably become the dominant play-style, and we might run into the same situation where people will just find another way to have out the clone as much as possible and have there be next to no actual drawbacks. Then again, this might also mean that Forsburn players would have two different avenues to take to improve their game.

Of course, this is all hypothetical, and this could be either really bad or really good for Forsburn, but hey, that's why we're here and we're talking about it, right?

Also, I would like to ask what you guys think about the changes they had in certain builds that allowed Forsburn to decide when his clone attacked, but the movement was controlled by AI. Personally, I thought it was a step in the right direction, but do you guys think that something else (like the IC's-esque concept) could potentially do better?

 

[jam1garner]

Oh, I wasn't saying it was a bad idea or anything, I was just wondering if that was specifically what he meant. So, yeah, I could see that being an interesting way to take the clone.

*From here on out, this is addressed to anyone that wants to reply*

And returning to what I said previously, I'd like to retract my statement about how this would cause people to not use the clone and therefore not use Forsburn as well as they could be. I'm changing my mind after giving it some thought, and I came up with something new, so if you guys want to point something out or ask for clarification, then please do. What I'm thinking now is that doing something like this could potentially create a larger set of play-styles for potential Forsburn players: Those with good clone mechanics/clone awareness (would probably end up being similar to the Ice Climbers) and those who do not use the clone to the same extent (I'm thinking along the lines of Marth, mostly just 'cause of the weapon). While Forsburn is already a pretty good character in his own right, if, for instance, these changes to the clone benefit Forsburn more than the current clone mechanics do, then that would probably become the dominant play-style, and we might run into the same situation where people will just find another way to have out the clone as much as possible and have there be next to no actual drawbacks. Then again, this might also mean that Forsburn players would have two different avenues to take to improve their game.

Of course, this is all hypothetical, and this could be either really bad or really good for Forsburn, but hey, that's why we're here and we're talking about it, right?

Also, I would like to ask what you guys think about the changes they had in certain builds that allowed Forsburn to decide when his clone attacked, but the movement was controlled by AI. Personally, I thought it was a step in the right direction, but do you guys think that something else (like the IC's-esque concept) could potentially do better?

I don't want ICs per say but I want something that makes people feel like the clones is less jank, for the lack of a better word. The reason I say this is because people view it as campy and you have only some control over him, meaning it (this isn't me, but this sounds like something my friend would say) isn't you who won (in the salty player's mind but the clone who won. In a perfect world, I would want the clone to move around with the right stick (tap jump forced) instead of strong attacks. That might make Forsburn have the highest skill ceiling, possibly infinites, and the best character in the game for those skilled enough to use him. Obviously this is not the best idea, but I can always dream of nana moving with my c-stick.

 

[4nace]

Lots of Forsburn clone discussion here.
The clone has been changed a bit since the June Build:

• Youll have to input the special button to make it attack.
• The cooldown is still 2.5 seconds after it gets destroyed so you can't get one out immediately.
• And you can't tank hits for the clone any more so it can get destroyed pretty easily.
• The clone only performs tilts, aerials and dash attack.
• Basically we made it more offensive while taking away some of its defensive capabilities (tanking for each other).

We did explore lots of other options and requiring smoke. The issue with smoke is that we didn't want to lock out 2 of Forsburn's 4 specials to requiring smoke absorbing (which isn't even the most evident thing to begin with). We did however change it so the clone removes your third charge just like using smoke. The logic is that Forsburn gives up deception when he is charged up and both Nspecial and Fspecial are considered deception specials.

We will definitely be keeping an eye on the clone as we want to make sure that camping is not Forsburn's best strategy for winning.

@ Big Papi

Some good stuff in your post. Not sure I agree 100% on the staleness comment. I think staleness is tied to depth. The more you see something happen for the first time, the more fresh the game will be. I don't think the camera, animations in the background, or hit effects will have too much to do with that as they become noise quite quickly to those familiar with the game. Smash 4 backgrounds and hit effects are way cooler than Melee. I find Smash 4 more stale to watch already than i find melee.

I do think that those things are important for attracting new players though and we will constantly be working on the player feedback. We also will look at things like grunts but those will take time / commitment / voice acting.

As for attack animations, I will be working with Ellian to improve the worst offenders of jankiness over time. Don't really think Wrastor should fall as he charges but the animation on him could be less static for sure. (drifting or not drifting is a gameplay thing not an animation thing though)

-Dan

 

[jam1garner]

Lots of Forsburn clone discussion here.
The clone has been changed a bit since the June Build:

• Youll have to input the special button to make it attack.
• The cooldown is still 2.5 seconds after it gets destroyed so you can't get one out immediately.
• And you can't tank hits for the clone any more so it can get destroyed pretty easily.
• The clone only performs tilts, aerials and dash attack.
• Basically we made it more offensive while taking away some of its defensive capabilities (tanking for each other).

We did explore lots of other options and requiring smoke. The issue with smoke is that we didn't want to lock out 2 of Forsburn's 4 specials to requiring smoke absorbing (which isn't even the most evident thing to begin with). We did however change it so the clone removes your third charge just like using smoke. The logic is that Forsburn gives up deception when he is charged up and both Nspecial and Fspecial are considered deception specials.

We will definitely be keeping an eye on the clone as we want to make sure that camping is not Forsburn's best strategy for winning.

@ Big Papi

Some good stuff in your post. Not sure I agree 100% on the staleness comment. I think staleness is tied to depth. The more you see something happen for the first time, the more fresh the game will be. I don't think the camera, animations in the background, or hit effects will have too much to do with that as they become noise quite quickly to those familiar with the game. Smash 4 backgrounds and hit effects are way cooler than Melee. I find Smash 4 more stale to watch already than i find melee.

I do think that those things are important for attracting new players though and we will constantly be working on the player feedback. We also will look at things like grunts but those will take time / commitment / voice acting.

As for attack animations, I will be working with Ellian to improve the worst offenders of jankiness over time. Don't really think Wrastor should fall as he charges but the animation on him could be less static for sure. (drifting or not drifting is a gameplay thing not an animation thing though)

-Dan

Looks like you have things under control. Thank you for not adding the falling while charging to wrastor. Since he seems to combo then apply pressure in order to get smash, drifting releases pressure. For changing the animation, making it seem more intense than put you hands in the air like you just don't care upsmash will be nice

 

[Big Papi]

Lots of Forsburn clone discussion here.
The clone has been changed a bit since the June Build:

• Youll have to input the special button to make it attack.
• The cooldown is still 2.5 seconds after it gets destroyed so you can't get one out immediately.
• And you can't tank hits for the clone any more so it can get destroyed pretty easily.
• The clone only performs tilts, aerials and dash attack.
• Basically we made it more offensive while taking away some of its defensive capabilities (tanking for each other).

We did explore lots of other options and requiring smoke. The issue with smoke is that we didn't want to lock out 2 of Forsburn's 4 specials to requiring smoke absorbing (which isn't even the most evident thing to begin with). We did however change it so the clone removes your third charge just like using smoke. The logic is that Forsburn gives up deception when he is charged up and both Nspecial and Fspecial are considered deception specials.

We will definitely be keeping an eye on the clone as we want to make sure that camping is not Forsburn's best strategy for winning.

@ Big Papi

Some good stuff in your post. Not sure I agree 100% on the staleness comment. I think staleness is tied to depth. The more you see something happen for the first time, the more fresh the game will be. I don't think the camera, animations in the background, or hit effects will have too much to do with that as they become noise quite quickly to those familiar with the game. Smash 4 backgrounds and hit effects are way cooler than Melee. I find Smash 4 more stale to watch already than i find melee.

I do think that those things are important for attracting new players though and we will constantly be working on the player feedback. We also will look at things like grunts but those will take time / commitment / voice acting.

As for attack animations, I will be working with Ellian to improve the worst offenders of jankiness over time. Don't really think Wrastor should fall as he charges but the animation on him could be less static for sure. (drifting or not drifting is a gameplay thing not an animation thing though)

-Dan

I appreciate your response.

Forsburn:
I really like the change of giving up third charge/deception for clone. Maybe if you have it charged all the way, and use clone, then the clone could have one small buff. Such as a little more damage output?
And could you elaborate more about hitting special to attack? Will smoke not come out? Does the special you choose affect which move the clone does? Having a little trouble envisioning it.
Also thank you for removing the tanking lol.

Aesthetics & Staleness remark:
You are very right and I agree with your point now on the watching aspect. But for me, the aesthetics and how it looks/plays makes me want to play smash 4 over melee a lot of the times. Some of melee's "jankiness" or "clunkiness" can be a turnoff for me when I play. But you are right, doesn't affect how I watch bc on twitch, the gameplay is what I care about more and I'd watch melee over smash4 almost all time. I understand I am in the minority of rather playing smash 4 over melee but my main reasons are, the game is much more beautiful as I'm playing and I don't have to l cancel.

Wrastor - sorry about the slightly descending idea XD but making his animation better for that and his momentum carry a bit for his strong attacks would both be good to add (maybe after immediately jumping into them or something idk the best solution for frozen charging Wrastor)

Also, you could add a little indicator for sweet spots in general, don't make all of them as flashy like Absa or burn bonus Zetterburn strong attacks, but more so like small glimmer or sound on the sweet spots of Orcanes back air or Forsburn down air when they connect.

And if you're not worried about the staleness of the game (I mean you are the one who plays it the most lol) then I definitely won't be as worried. Like I said before, how the game looks while a play is one of the bigger factors for ME (and for one or two people on reddit haha), so that's why I had so much say on that subject. What you currently have is almost complete for my satisfaction and I know it will only get better until that magnificent day when the full game releases. :D

Ps. Mixed feelings about Orcanes taunt. My Shamu is thug life, not cute baby world at seaworld. Haha. But I guess the taunts should fit the original character's personality. In which case, the cute water-tail trick is the way to go.

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

Wrastor - sorry about the slightly descending idea XD but making his animation better for that and his momentum carry a bit for his strong attacks would both be good to add (maybe after immediately jumping into them or something idk the best solution for frozen charging Wrastor)

I remember seeing a match on Air Armada where Wrastor did an uncharged smash after hitting the bounce pad and still had momentum. This was back when you could jump out of down smash though, so I don't know if any changes removed that from happening.

 

[Big Papi]

I remember seeing a match on Air Armada where Wrastor did an uncharged smash after hitting the bounce pad and still had momentum. This was back when you could jump out of down smash though, so I don't know if any changes removed that from happening.

Yeah that might be true. I have to check. But the charged strongs should change a bit.

 

[someonetookjacob]

I remember seeing a match on Air Armada where Wrastor did an uncharged smash after hitting the bounce pad and still had momentum. This was back when you could jump out of down smash though, so I don't know if any changes removed that from happening.

I believe thats still in. If you dont charge your smash you have normal momentum and falling, if you charge you freeze in place. I personally really like this mechanic, I think it adds some cool depth to Wrastors aerial finishers. Like I said I think that is still in the game (It was in the June build) but I could be wrong?

 

[Bi_o]

Lots of Forsburn clone discussion here.
The clone has been changed a bit since the June Build:

• Youll have to input the special button to make it attack.
• The cooldown is still 2.5 seconds after it gets destroyed so you can't get one out immediately.
• And you can't tank hits for the clone any more so it can get destroyed pretty easily.
• The clone only performs tilts, aerials and dash attack.
• Basically we made it more offensive while taking away some of its defensive capabilities (tanking for each other).

We did explore lots of other options and requiring smoke. The issue with smoke is that we didn't want to lock out 2 of Forsburn's 4 specials to requiring smoke absorbing (which isn't even the most evident thing to begin with). We did however change it so the clone removes your third charge just like using smoke. The logic is that Forsburn gives up deception when he is charged up and both Nspecial and Fspecial are considered deception specials.

We will definitely be keeping an eye on the clone as we want to make sure that camping is not Forsburn's best strategy for winning.

@ Big Papi

Some good stuff in your post. Not sure I agree 100% on the staleness comment. I think staleness is tied to depth. The more you see something happen for the first time, the more fresh the game will be. I don't think the camera, animations in the background, or hit effects will have too much to do with that as they become noise quite quickly to those familiar with the game. Smash 4 backgrounds and hit effects are way cooler than Melee. I find Smash 4 more stale to watch already than i find melee.

I do think that those things are important for attracting new players though and we will constantly be working on the player feedback. We also will look at things like grunts but those will take time / commitment / voice acting.

As for attack animations, I will be working with Ellian to improve the worst offenders of jankiness over time. Don't really think Wrastor should fall as he charges but the animation on him could be less static for sure. (drifting or not drifting is a gameplay thing not an animation thing though)

-Dan

Alright, thanks for letting us know how the clone is potentially going to work, though I do still have two questions about it:

• Can you still regain full charge after you summon a clone? (so, after summoning it and going back down to 2, can you still get the 3rd charge back without the clone disappearing?) (might be simple/obvious,but I just wanna make sure)
• How exactly is the movement AI set up? Is it meant to just head towards the opponent and jump at them if they need to (i.e. the opponent's above the clone) or is there another sort of logic to it?

And @ Big Papi , you don't really need to apologize for making the suggestions that you did, since they were something that you thought would help the game, so even if there's a disagreement, we still appreciate that you put your idea out there.

 

[RoA_Zam]

@ Bi_o lmao I love that you're using the freezeframe of Zetterburn that I showed you. It's beautiful isn't it?

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

Have there been any good doubles matches yet? I can't seem to find any, and I'm curious about the metagame and team combos.

 

[jam1garner]

Have there been any good doubles matches yet? I can't seem to find any, and I'm curious about the metagame and team combos.

No, not yet.

 

[Bi_o]

@ Bi_o lmao I love that you're using the freezeframe of Zetterburn that I showed you. It's beautiful isn't it?

Oh, it's friggin' gorgeous. I just find it amazing.

Have there been any good doubles matches yet? I can't seem to find any, and I'm curious about the metagame and team combos.

Honestly, I've been curious about doubles, too. I've only seen it once, and it was on a stream but it wasn't uploaded or highlighted, so let's hope that it becomes bigger in the future, since I think doubles would be super hectic and interesting, even if the game is balanced around 1v1.

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

I can't wait to see kragg double teams counterpicking rock wall and using rock slide. I love watching that glitch, and I really want to see someone use it in a tournament.

 

[lecceo]

so can someone update me on controller support? mayflash for gc controllers?

 

[jam1garner]

so can someone update me on controller support? mayflash for gc controllers?

GameCube support not included but x360ce works well, there is a guide to use it on the subreddit. Xbox is only native controller just use x360ce for everything else. DInput support planned for full release.

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

GameCube support not included but x360ce works well, there is a guide to use it on the subreddit. Xbox is only native controller just use x360ce for everything else. DInput support planned for full release.

Wait, there's no mayflash support on pc for early access? It will be on the full release though, right? And what do you mean when you say that DI input is planned for the full release?

 

[RoA_Zam]

Have there been any good doubles matches yet? I can't seem to find any, and I'm curious about the metagame and team combos.

None in the slightest worth recording

 

[RoA_Zam]

Wait, there's no mayflash support on pc for early access? It will be on the full release though, right? And what do you mean when you say that DI input is planned for the full release?

You can get mayflash working through xbox360ce

 

[Big Papi]

And @ Big Papi , you don't really need to apologize for making the suggestions that you did, since they were something that you thought would help the game, so even if there's a disagreement, we still appreciate that you put your idea out there.

Yeah I just didn't want them to come across as something super important. It was just some concerns I had bc at the moment, I much prefer playing this than any smash game for the exact reasons why Dan created it for to begin with, and I just want it to be as polished as possible. Good enough that my melee elitist brothers and friends will want to play it almost as much as I do haha.

 

[4nace]

Yeah I just didn't want them to come across as something super important. It was just some concerns I had bc at the moment, I much prefer playing this than any smash game for the exact reasons why Dan created it for to begin with, and I just want it to be as polished as possible. Good enough that my melee elitist brothers and friends will want to play it almost as much as I do haha.

That should be our back of the box quote. "Good enough for melee elitists but also fun for other people!"
:D

 

[ThereisnoLion]

@ 4nace , have you considered launching on the humble store as well? Most early access games I've seen just give a steam code and then release DRM-free builds after full release. As someone who plans to run local tournaments, having a DRM-free build would make it much easier to create setups. It's also worth noting that you can just sell steam codes through the store if you'd prefer, as lots of major games do. You can also get a humble widget to sell the game through your site. Finally, what I've heard from devs who have used it, the humble store are very easy to work with and take a smaller cut than steam. It's definitely worth looking in to, I'd say.

 

[ChimaeraUltimo]

Will early access have 360_ce support

 

[Bi_o]

Will early access have 360_ce support

Yup, you can use xbox360ce if you want to use something other than an Xbox controller.

 

[Big Papi]

Diggin Wrastor's taunt. https://twitter.com/ThisIsEllian/status/642748289503236096

 

[someonetookjacob]

I had a fun idea for an easter egg (If you are looking to add those?)

What if playing with your tag set to one of the developers tags (/names?) (Like 4nace or flashygoodness (flashy for short?)) with their main (Zetterburn, for you dan I think) set that character to a special 'secret' pallet. There are conveniently 8 devs listed on the official site, and 8 characters, so that works out nicely. It could be a fun during tournaments for spectators to see for the first time. It would give a little insight to fans of which characters the people who worked on the game liked the most, and it doesnt seem like it would be that hard to add in.

Full disclosure. I a little bit stole this idea from Terraria.

 

[theopenlink22]

I am the pioneer of the meta! After about 12 hours straight of playing Rivals of Aether with one of my buds, I have several things I found out.

Kragg-I do not know how this happened, but during the match my friend used his recovery which landed BARELY above the stage. It was too low to hit with any move, but I couldn't walk over it. If I could find a way to do this, you could effectively make a wall and then camp with neutral special. Also, I invented a new strategy, as Kragg, create a pillar right next to The side of the stage and spam up tilts and guard with up airs and n-specials. This is unbeatable from what I have seen.

 

[Big Papi]

I am the pioneer of the meta! After about 12 hours straight of playing Rivals of Aether with one of my buds, I have several things I found out.

Kragg-I do not know how this happened, but during the match my friend used his recovery which landed BARELY above the stage. It was too low to hit with any move, but I couldn't walk over it. If I could find a way to do this, you could effectively make a wall and then camp with neutral special. Also, I invented a new strategy, as Kragg, create a pillar right next to The side of the stage and spam up tilts and guard with up airs and n-specials. This is unbeatable from what I have seen.View attachment 73068

I know that the increased-height pillar by stage is a thing. But I'm pretty sure this was intentionally put into the game because Kragg's jumps are so short that he wouldn't be able to get back,even with his second jump. Or if he can make it back, he should be able to make it back with only one jump (and airdodge) rather than double jumping and potentially airdodging.

The only characters I can see that would have a problem with this type of edgeguard is maple and zetterburn. I believe they still might be able to beat this by ZB: up special into your pillar, breaking through it, walljumping, and up special again. Maple: if the height is high enough, seed Kragg, up special to Kragg, airdodge onto stage. Of the two, Maple is the one this edgeguard would be practically unbeatable. However this method of edgeguarding seems like it would take a while to setup (after knocking them off, but before they get back).

 

[someonetookjacob]

I am the pioneer of the meta! After about 12 hours straight of playing Rivals of Aether with one of my buds, I have several things I found out.

Kragg-I do not know how this happened, but during the match my friend used his recovery which landed BARELY above the stage. It was too low to hit with any move, but I couldn't walk over it. If I could find a way to do this, you could effectively make a wall and then camp with neutral special. Also, I invented a new strategy, as Kragg, create a pillar right next to The side of the stage and spam up tilts and guard with up airs and n-specials. This is unbeatable from what I have seen.View attachment 73068

I think he meant not as a edge gaurd, just as a thing to do?
cant they just airdodge through your attack and punish with a fast move? or if you are maypul... d air above you?

 

[Puppyfaic]

That should be our back of the box quote. "Good enough for melee elitists but also fun for other people!"
:D

Physical copy confirmed.

 

[jam1garner]

Physical copy confirmed.

But Dan... My wallet... I can only buy so many copies... /s

 

[ZaoMonichi]

@ theopenlink22

That is a strategy that his been used since Kragg's introduction, as far as I know. It's something I've been doing against CPUs that is only unbeatable against them since their AI isn't tailored well to the Pillar or Rock (neutral b).

It's pretty easy to beat. Just jump over Kragg and break his pillar. It will put him in freefall and he'll have no recovery unless he just jumped onto the stage, which would ruin the strategy.

Also for those that watch my stream, or those interested...

Streaming Rivals of Aether! Check me out at http://twitch.tv/Reddit_Admin New schedule is Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat, 6-9 EST!