Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[jam1garner]

Do you guys have an exact price on the game yet?

Dan said he is 90% sure of $14.99

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

I have had a $20 steam gift card forever... now is finally the time.

 

[Puppyfaic]

I think it's safe to say that theme is pretty much the main theme of Rivals of Aether. I love the improvements, but it feels slightly less hype than before.

Also, I need that render of Orcane in my life. The one with the 4 main characters all zooming in on each other near the end.

 

[jam1garner]

I think it's safe to say that theme is pretty much the main theme of Rivals of Aether. I love the improvements, but it feels slightly less hype than before.

Hype as ever for me!

 

[Ako.]

what controller u guys think would be best to play on? keyboard, ps3, ps4, xbox, gamecube?

 

[jam1garner]

what controller u guys think would be best to play on? keyboard, ps3, ps4, xbox, gamecube?

I have heard great things about Xbox and dual shock for RoA. iirc flashy goodness and zetterburn use dual shock, while most others use GameCube and Xbox (pretty sure Dan uses Xbox but don't quote me on that) so ask around!

 

[Streetwize]

I use my PS3 controller. Admittedly I have to be a little more careful with my inputs compared to using a GameCube controller on PM, but it still feels really smooth. As long as you have a controller with digital shoulder buttons you should be fine.

 

[Puppyfaic]

I use my PS2 controller at home. It feels incredible. Not as good as the XBone controller, but still very functional.

 

[ChimaeraUltimo]

Are there plans to improve the AI in some way, or add a parry animation? The current one is a bit lack-luster... please consider adding an HP system to FBurns clone, dying in one hit seems... useless... (or maybe that's the AI level)
salty runbacks?
Why can't ZBurn land on platforms with Up-Special?

(sorry if some of these questions are useless or have already been answered)

 

[lecceo]

i m so hype!

 

[likiji123]

YESH. Cant wait to have this game in my hands again and see what maypul plays like

 

[Malkasaur]

Best news is that Absa might get added to Early Access eventually (so I've heard). Gonna buy it first day anyways.
For us, this will be an amazing and hype day, but for them, it will be Tuesday.

 

[jam1garner]

Best news is that Absa might get added to Early Access eventually (so I've heard). Gonna buy it first day anyways.
For us, this will be an amazing and hype day, but for them, it will be Tuesday.

Honestly Dan seems to like the idea of more alpha builds alongside early access purely for the point of balancing Absa and character 8. I think that is what he meant by more Absa testing during early access. But he could have changed since I last heard about that.

 

[Death By Hugs]

OMG early access so hype! Gonna buy the heck out of it!

 

[Big Papi]

So this post is in regards to the few feedback on the games aesthetics that were given in the smashbros subreddit thread, and that @ 4nace tweeted of.

There was a couple people talking about the pixel art being a lazy way of creating a smash inspired game. To that I say, no way. Yes it is a little bit limiting with what you can do for the game's physical appeal. But one thing to note is that the game feels and looks wayyy better getting your hands on the game and seeing how smoothly it plays. Now, yes going the pixel art route might be cheaper and quicker than 3D or HD renders, but the pixel art in this game, especially the stage backgrounds, have been on another level in my opinion.

Something else that was noted was that as of now, it's a bit boring to watch (or even play). Now this is something that I can slightly relate to but not as drastically has some might have put it. I agree that because of the pixel art, it is going to be difficult to make it look/feel different, dynamic, and unique each time you play it (or watch it on Twitch). The character movement is pretty close to that feel already with the Smash mechanic they've decided to implement into Rivals, but I'd agree that at times I felt like the game was a bit stale in sense: to watch and to play.
What I mean by this is that whenever I play Smash, something like a none-stationary camera that also zooms in and out as the characters get closer and farther away definitely helps bring in that feel of every match being just as unique as the others. Because of Rivals' stationary camera (that only moves whenever someone is knock off the stage), the games tend to feel more like each other, to me at least. And I mostly noticed this sense of "staleness" because my brothers and I can only play the game for longer periods of time when we have a rotation, stepping away from the game and coming back. Sitting down and playing the same brother for longer periods of time gets more boring more quickly. And yes its because of the matches starting to all feel the same after a while, and not just because its the same two people playing.


So, what would I suggest?

Biggest suggestion at the moment is sound.

- Definitely add a chill yet epic menu music. (Sorta assuming that you guys are working on that.)

- I know you guys are tweaking the hit sound effects so keep on with that.

- Include some character grunts whenever they get hit hard or they give a devastating blow, etc. But make sure not to go overboard with this. Put them in situations that don't happen as often (to avoid things like Sheik's tutu). Maybe have the each character make a unique noise/grunt whenever they wall jump, or have a successful parry, or die. Scenarios like that. The more diverse the sounds, the better.

My other suggestion would be to put a strong focus on the animations. Pixel art needs alot of convincing in order for these characters to feel alive and animated. One example is that I really loved the animation change to Zetterburn's up strong. That was a huge step in the right direction.

- Maybe going through each characters' moveset and figuring out how their animations could be more lively? I know one off the top of my head is Wrastor strong attacks in the air. Why does the character with the most air mobility freeze like a statue in mid air... maybe you could have him slowly descend as hes charging them (I mean he stopped flapping his wings right? lol) or maybe have him hold still for down strong, but slowly keep his momentum when charging up or side strongs, similar to Orcane sliding and charging his strongs on the ground.

- Make charging strong attacks having an animation that last the entire charge time. I know one of the goofiest things in Melee is seeing my Falco hold that pose when charging fsmash. Brawl and Smash4 have smash attack animations that last the entirety of the charge time.

Lastly, taunts. - Add some taunts with epic sound effects. Taunts definitely add some flair to the game, and everyone wants them. I know that is still in the queue and not a priority, but whenever you guys do get to them, be sure that enough time and effort is put into them that would really add some flashiness and personality to Rivals of Aether.


Hope I was able to convey my artistic thoughts well enough. I love this game and the direction its going, but I was starting to have some concerns with its longevity and lifespan and freshness(match-to-match). I want this game to be as successful as it can be. I push people to play it at my college's smashfest and teach them everything I can about in the short amount of time that they have their hands on it. And I believe this game can definitely be big. All smash-esque games turn out being flops, but this is one that has a ton of potential with what it has going for it now. Keep up the amaaazing work, RoA Team!

 

[Ridel]

Also, I need that render of Orcane in my life. The one with the 4 main characters all zooming in on each other near the end.

Yeah I want it to. It would look really good for video thumbnails and such. Orcane is so hype can't wait to play as him.

 

[N00ne]

@ 4nace
I would like my full name and tag in the credits: Jake King - N00ne

Can't wait to buy the Early Access version!

 

[theopenlink22]

what controller u guys think would be best to play on? keyboard, ps3, ps4, xbox, gamecube?

Xbox 360 is my favorite so for. It feels nice, it has great buttons to customize and you can do a lot more with it then the GameCube controller or anything else (In my opinion)

please consider adding an HP system to FBurns clone, dying in one hit seems... useless... (or maybe that's the AI level)

Are you kidding me? That is probably the best move IN THE GAME. It does same damage and knock-back as you and it allows DOUBLE THE PRESSURE on your opponents. You are both putting out attacks at an insane rate that they will not have time to hit it once if you play him right.

it's a bit boring to watch (or even play)

I think it is incredibly fun to watch. The lack of shield makes the pace great and fast. Have you seen some of the tournament play?

@ 4nace You should make it so you regenerate 1% when you get all three smoke with . This could add a small camping mechanic (Which no one but Maypul has been able to do and maybe ZBurn). A small buff in sorts, but not enough to make him OP. This will benefit his playstyle and how he is supposed to be a campy son of a b**** Trickster and will add a benefit to that playstyle.
PS-What program did you mainly use to make Rivals of Aether? I am curious.

 

[skydogc]

Gotta say, the Waterbender-Whale-Wolf-Squirtle looks awesome as HELL.
Actually all of them do.

 

[Big Papi]

Xbox 360 is my favorite so for. It feels nice, it has great buttons to customize and you can do a lot more with it then the GameCube controller or anything else (In my opinion)


Are you kidding me? That is probably the best move IN THE GAME. It does same damage and knock-back as you and it allows DOUBLE THE PRESSURE on your opponents. You are both putting out attacks at an insane rate that they will not have time to hit it once if you play him right.


I think it is incredibly fun to watch. The lack of shield makes the pace great and fast. Have you seen some of the tournament play?

@ 4nace You should make it so you regenerate 1% when you get all three smoke with . This could add a small camping mechanic (Which no one but Maypul has been able to do and maybe ZBurn). A small buff in sorts, but not enough to make him OP. This will benefit his playstyle and how he is supposed to be a campy son of a b**** Trickster and will add a benefit to that playstyle.
PS-What program did you mainly use to make Rivals of Aether? I am curious.

I have seen the tournament play and you are very right about some of the hype it can bring, but I'm thinking long term. How viewers will think of it after this new game isn't so new anymore. Where it stands as a spectating game.

 

[theopenlink22]

I have seen the tournament play and you are very right about some of the hype it can bring, but I'm thinking long term. How viewers will think of it after this new game isn't so new anymore. Where it stands as a spectating game.

True. Main thing is... Smash 4 has 50+ characters, which means hundreds of different types of match ups all different, and this has 8. So it is just a smaller scale game. Which is what it is meant to be.

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

Are you kidding me? That is probably the best move IN THE GAME. It does same damage and knock-back as you and it allows DOUBLE THE PRESSURE on your opponents. You are both putting out attacks at an insane rate that they will not have time to hit it once if you play him right.

This won't be the best move in the game until we get smash 4 levels of AI. That's when it'll be the best move in the game, when it's difficult to tell the clones apart when they're both playing with skill.

True. Main thing is... Smash 4 has 50+ characters, which means hundreds of different types of match ups all different, and this has 8. So it is just a smaller scale game. Which is what it is meant to be.

Don't forget that characters in this game have a lot more depth than in smash 4. That's the advantage melee has over other games in the series, because there's so much more you can do with each character.

 

[Big Papi]

True. Main thing is... Smash 4 has 50+ characters, which means hundreds of different types of match ups all different, and this has 8. So it is just a smaller scale game. Which is what it is meant to be.

Yeah. Although a small roster could be a problem for that, I don't think it will be one. Melee has about the same 8 characters on streams yet that's the most fun I've had watching a video game. But that's kinda on its own tier lol.

 

[Puppyfaic]

This won't be the best move in the game until we get smash 4 levels of AI. That's when it'll be the best move in the game, when it's difficult to tell the clones apart when they're both playing with skill.

The Clone is still VERY VERY VERY good. It has almost no cooldown, so as soon as one's gone, you can immediately create another one.

 

[jam1garner]

True. Main thing is... Smash 4 has 50+ characters, which means hundreds of different types of match ups all different, and this has 8. So it is just a smaller scale game. Which is what it is meant to be.

That's still 64 match ups you can learn in singles (counting things such as your Orcane vs. my Wrastor and your Wrastor vs. my Orcane as 2 different match ups) plus 4096 possible combinations for doubles. If you learn all the characters, you will have plenty of match ups to worry about. In smash 4 you will probably play 1-3 characters competitively, resulting in 150 singles match ups. In RoA, playing every character seems viable. If you count the fact that you won't see around half of the cast at your average smash 4 tournament that means 75 Match ups vs. 64. This is however making assumptions, but pretty safe ones. When was the last tournament you saw Zelda being played at? Every character has won a RoA tournament and all characters seem equal (#KraggOP though) this means character diversity is not as huge as a 42 character gap. Closer to a 16 character gap. On bigfriendlygames stream, it seems like they all have a relatively good grasp of every character. (Especially absolute black) smash 4 players have a handful of characters they play) while ZeRo is very good, he usually sticks to Diddy and Sheik. You just can't compare by just the character count, the circumstances are very different.

 

[Big Papi]

The Clone is still VERY VERY VERY good. It has almost no cooldown, so as soon as one's gone, you can immediately create another one.

Chiming into the clone conversation, the fact that the clone is basically a meatshield makes that move godlike. im pretty sure if you hit one of them, it protects the other one from that same hitbox.

 

[someonetookjacob]

Chiming into the clone conversation, the fact that the clone is basically a meatshield makes that move godlike. im pretty sure if you hit one of them, it protects the other one from that same hitbox.

That is definitely how is works in the june build, but I believe that has been changed now. But that mechanic for sure made the move craaaazy good.

Also more on the clone. I believe now the clone only attacks when you press special (or maybe side special?) So its not really just simple AI anymore. But I think even with the new mechanics for attacking and no longer working as a meatshield it doesnt need armor or HP, I am sure it is still plenty strong. The combos you can create with it are ridiculous.

 

[Steel Banana]

That is definitely how is works in the june build, but I believe that has been changed now. But that mechanic for sure made the move craaaazy good.

Also more on the clone. I believe now the clone only attacks when you press special (or maybe side special?) So its not really just simple AI anymore. But I think even with the new mechanics for attacking and no longer working as a meatshield it doesnt need armor or HP, I am sure it is still plenty strong. The combos you can create with it are ridiculous.

Can confirm: the current version of the clone is amazing. Clone can no longer tank hits, so it dies even easier than before, but he attacks whenever you press use any special, so his offensive power is amazing.

Here's an example of a clone combo I pulled off a while ago: http://gfycat.com/ScrawnyReasonableBirdofparadise

 

[theopenlink22]

That's still 64 match ups you can learn in singles (counting things such as your Orcane vs. my Wrastor and your Wrastor vs. my Orcane as 2 different match ups) plus 4096 possible combinations for doubles. If you learn all the characters, you will have plenty of match ups to worry about. In smash 4 you will probably play 1-3 characters competitively, resulting in 150 singles match ups. In RoA, playing every character seems viable. If you count the fact that you won't see around half of the cast at your average smash 4 tournament that means 75 Match ups vs. 64. This is however making assumptions, but pretty safe ones. When was the last tournament you saw Zelda being played at? Every character has won a RoA tournament and all characters seem equal (#KraggOP though) this means character diversity is not as huge as a 42 character gap. Closer to a 16 character gap. On bigfriendlygames stream, it seems like they all have a relatively good grasp of every character. (Especially absolute black) smash 4 players have a handful of characters they play) while ZeRo is very good, he usually sticks to Diddy and Sheik. You just can't compare by just the character count, the circumstances are very different.

Wow...

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

That is definitely how is works in the june build, but I believe that has been changed now. But that mechanic for sure made the move craaaazy good.

Also more on the clone. I believe now the clone only attacks when you press special (or maybe side special?) So its not really just simple AI anymore. But I think even with the new mechanics for attacking and no longer working as a meatshield it doesnt need armor or HP, I am sure it is still plenty strong. The combos you can create with it are ridiculous.

I still think it needs a couple changes, especially with the maypul matchup pretty much eliminating your clone. something like having the clone marked if it's made when you're marked, or having the ability to transfer your charged down special when making one, and using side special detonates it instead of leaving a smoke cloud. That could lead to some very interesting mix ups.

Plus it wouldn't touch the basics or combos the clone has, only affecting some high level plays. If it needs some balancing, just put team attack on for the clone, so you could accidentally kill it.

 

[Cirby64]

While were on the topic of Forsburn's clone;

I think the move should really be replaced, or tweaked in some way. As it stands, there's never really a reason not to have your clone out. This creates very flowcharty gameplay of - Create clone - Clone dies - Repeat -, that imo just doesn't fit to Forsburn. I think this is a problem since it's almost always optimal to use your clone.

 

[Seagull Joe]

What controller is used for this and will it only be on a CPU/laptop?

 

[RoA_Zam]

What controller is used for this and will it only be on a CPU/laptop?

Meant for Xbox controllers, but you can use xbox360CE to map controls to any controller.

Also releasing on Xbox One. Not just steam for Windows

 

[RoA_Zam]

While were on the topic of Forsburn's clone;

I think the move should really be replaced, or tweaked in some way. As it stands, there's never really a reason not to have your clone out. This creates very flowcharty gameplay of - Create clone - Clone dies - Repeat -, that imo just doesn't fit to Forsburn. I think this is a problem since it's almost always optimal to use your clone.

And what makes that any different than a Wrastor side B or a Maypul downB or an absa Neutral/sideB ?

 

[someonetookjacob]

I still think it needs a couple changes, especially with the maypul matchup pretty much eliminating your clone. something like having the clone marked if it's made when you're marked, or having the ability to transfer your charged down special when making one, and using side special detonates it instead of leaving a smoke cloud. That could lead to some very interesting mix ups.

Plus it wouldn't touch the basics or combos the clone has, only affecting some high level plays. If it needs some balancing, just put team attack on for the clone, so you could accidentally kill it.

Why does the maypul matchup eliminate the clone? Her seeds dont destroy it, just mark it. And if it walks into the plant it gets wrapped up. I think you can even tether to it with up-b.

That said, I do like the idea of somehow making the clone explode. Maybe the clone gets to explode with you if you have your down-b charged, but is destroyed in the process. It would be nice because right now the opponent gets to tell which one is which when you have it charged, so it keeps some deception there. Plus If you de-sync him by making him do an attack then exploding right away I could imagine some crazy high level combo to down-b to clone down-b. Best combo ever.

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

And what makes that any different than a Wrastor side B or a Maypul downB or an absa Neutral/sideB ?

For those moves, it's positioning, where it could be somewhere you don't want it, so there's a reason to not use it the moment you can. Holding off a little bit means you could use it to finish a combo, if it would've expired had you used it sooner. I think the clones are more like marking your opponent in terms of always having one out, because there's no reason not to. The main thing is that you need space before you can place them, otherwise you get punished or the clone dies right away. It makes him more like Ice Climbers in a way.

I wouldn't mind if they got some kind of buff (or indirect buff from another move being better), then a short cooldown after they expire.

I think the move should really be replaced, or tweaked in some way.

It is way too late to replace it, but I'd be fine with some changes. Anything to help the maypul matchup, since she shuts him down.

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

Why does the maypul matchup eliminate the clone? Her seeds dont destroy it, just mark it. And if it walks into the plant it gets wrapped up. I think you can even tether to it with up-b.

It eliminates the ambiguity the clone usually has on startup. You're usually marked in this matchup, and the clone isn't.

That said, I do like the idea of somehow making the clone explode. Maybe the clone gets to explode with you if you have your down-b charged, but is destroyed in the process. It would be nice because right now the opponent gets to tell which one is which when you have it charged, so it keeps some deception there. Plus If you de-sync him by making him do an attack then exploding right away I could imagine some crazy high level combo to down-b to clone down-b. Best combo ever.

Being destroyed in the process was my plan. The idea with transferring the down b charge is that usually you always know which is the real one if you're charged, but being able to mix up by giving him the explosion would make you less predictable. It would be a little strange to have both charged for the cost of one charge, which is why I say you would have to chose whether you or your clone gets it. Always having your clone able to explode would eliminate a lot of the risks of this amazing combo, and having two down-b should be something you have to work for. Plus I'd prefer using side-b to detonate, since that way he wouldn't despawn if I do down - b on my own. I'm happy just as long as he doesn't make a smoke cloud if he dies by suicide bombing.

 

[Cirby64]

And what makes that any different than a Wrastor side B or a Maypul downB or an absa Neutral/sideB ?

You have a point, so maybe I should rephrase what I mean. Something that is different between Forsburn's clone, and all the similar things you mentioned, is that summoning Forsburn's clone not only creates flowcharty gameplay for himself, but also for the enemy. Your first priority would be getting rid of the extra damage threat. The other's mentioned don't affect the enemy to the point where they have to (or can) do something about it.

All I'm trying to say is maybe add a drawback to Forsburn's clone, that is impactful enough to make the Forsburn think about whether using his clone right now is a good option or not. I'm definitely not saying Forsburn is OP. That would be silly. Just the move feels so strange in my opinion, and I really do think something should be changed about it. Maybe buff something else about him inturn of adding a drawback to the clone. It simply creates less interaction between the two players, and also adds a tad of RNG, since you can't actually control the clone.

Not trying to rant, but this kind of killed the character for me when I first played him, since it just felt paramount to always have the clone out whenever possible.

 

[jam1garner]

Wow...

Sorry, could you elaborate on this? I don't know exactly what you mean.

 

[jam1garner]

While were on the topic of Forsburn's clone;

I think the move should really be replaced, or tweaked in some way. As it stands, there's never really a reason not to have your clone out. This creates very flowcharty gameplay of - Create clone - Clone dies - Repeat -, that imo just doesn't fit to Forsburn. I think this is a problem since it's almost always optimal to use your clone.

I agree, this is the reason L-canceling was removed as there is no reason not to do it when possible.