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Rising Cyclone (PTP) Frame Data Guide

Discussion in 'Luigi' started by schmooblidon, Dec 31, 2014.

  1. schmooblidon

    schmooblidon
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    :luigimelee: Luigi Rising Cyclone (PTP) Frame Data Guide

    Luigi can rise with his Down-B move by mashing B rapidly during the startup. Before he is able to, he must first "charge" his Down-B by performing it once beforehand. You can rise every other cyclone you perform. A rising cyclone is most useful for recovering, but could be used for killing an opponent off the top. A PTP (Perfect Tornado Press) loosely refers to a rising tornado/cyclone that gains enough height to be useful, the minimum for height gain is 6 presses.

    You can also hold left or right to move horizontally whilst rising, it has no effect on height gain. Holding up or down will do nothing. For each seperate press of B, you must release B for at least 1 frame before another press can be read. Distributing presses between frames 6-43 is crucial. If you do not mash for ~7 frames at the start or ~11 frames near the end, you will lose too much momentum and will lose height.

    Luigi's PTP is very similar to Doc and Mario's but there are some key differences besides charging.

    * Mashing from frame 1-5 will do nothing, and you move a little downward (cancelling any upward momentum).
    Frame 6-43 is your window to mash.

    * Because of the initial downward movement, the sooner you start mashing from frame 6, the sooner you cancel it, thus gaining more height. 19 Presses from frame 6 will give the maximum possible height.

    * Due to Luigi's floatiness it is better to mash faster at the beginning as to cancel the downward momentum as quickly as possible.

    So there are three variables that change height with his. When you start mashing, how many presses and how you distribute the presses.

    You can do a 5 press and start on frame 6, that will get you to where you started. 6 presses is when you start gaining height.

    Here is a visual gfy to show the differences in cyclone heights. I started mashing on frame 6 every time. I double jump on frame 80 (first frame possible) to show the true height gain for each variant.


    http://gfycat.com/InformalZestyDove

    Because of the initial downward movement, I first fullhop and start the cyclone on frame 4. This is only for the purpose of the gifs, you will most likely be using this far enough away from a surface to land.

    Optimal - 19 Presses with Horizontal DI


    http://gfycat.com/TotalFastJanenschia

    0 - Airbourne
    1 - Down + B
    2 - Hold Right (Can start DI'ing horizontally)
    .
    .
    6 - B (Can start mashing now)
    7 -
    8 - B
    9 -
    10 - B
    11 -
    12 - B
    13 -
    14 - B
    15 -
    16 - B
    17 -
    18 - B
    19 -
    20 - B
    21 -
    22 - B
    23 -
    24 - B
    25 -
    26 - B
    27 -
    28 - B
    29 -
    30 - B
    31 -
    32 - B
    33 -
    34 - B
    35 -
    36 - B
    37 -
    38 - B
    39 -
    40 - B
    41 -
    42 - B
    43 - (last hitbox)
    44 - DIing and Mashing no longer works
    .
    .
    77 - Can buffer a DoubleJump with Up
    80 - Can now drift/dj/up-b/whatever

    Best 6 Press with Horizontal DI


    http://gfycat.com/FluffyFlawedAttwatersprairiechicken

    0 - Airbourne
    1 - Down + B
    2 - Hold Right (Can start DI'ing horizontally)
    .
    .
    6 - B (Can start mashing now)
    7 -
    8 -
    9 -
    10 -
    11 - B
    12 -
    13 -
    14 -
    15 -
    16 -
    17 - B
    18 -
    19 -
    20 -
    21 -
    22 -
    23 - B
    24 -
    25 -
    26 -
    27 -
    28 -
    29 -
    30 -
    31 - B
    32 -
    33 -
    34 -
    35 -
    36 -
    37 -
    38 -
    39 -
    40 -
    41 - B
    42 -
    43 - (last hitbox)
    44 - DIing and Mashing no longer works
    .
    .
    77 - Can buffer a DoubleJump with Up
    80 - Can now drift/dj/up-b/whatever


    Other useful information:
    When doing a charged cyclone in the air, being interrupted between frames 1-43 will still keep the charge. If it is interrupted on frames 44+, you will lose the charge.
     
    #1 schmooblidon, Dec 31, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
  2. Griffard

    Griffard
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    This is pretty cool so far, thanks for your effort.
     
  3. Stride

    Stride
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    Thank you for making this.

    Do you know what frame counts as "completion" for the purposes of storing/losing a charge? I would assume it would be the last frame, but there's a chance it could be a different one (maybe the frame after the last frame with an active hitbox)?

    Also, the section you quoted from me contains errors. Most importantly, I now realise that getting hit out of the cyclone in the air does not consume the charge (I only discovered this recently; I'm not sure how I ended up thinking that it did consume the charge when I tested it originally, but I tested it properly/more thoroughly and with frame advance this time). I also understand the way the technical details behind how the charge actually works more accurately now. It also could have been written more clearly, and have used the term "cyclone" instead of "tornado". I've updated it and posted it here so you can edit it into your post:

     
    #3 Stride, Dec 31, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
  4. schmooblidon

    schmooblidon
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    Gunna have to get back to you on that one. I'll figure it out tomorrow.

    Thanks for touching that up, I've added it to the guide.
    I also fixed a bunch of stuff I wrote. Keep figuring new stuff out.
     
  5. schmooblidon

    schmooblidon
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    Ok so you do a charged tornado in the air, you get hit between 1-43 and you will keep the charge, hit on 44+ and you lose it. That's the frame after the last hitbox.

    If you do an uncharged tornado on the ground, you can get hit on the very first frame and still gain the charge.
     
    #5 schmooblidon, Jan 2, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
    Griffard and Stride like this.
  6. The Carpenter

    The Carpenter
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    Any advice for efficiency as far as the actual performance of the button inputs? I have a ton of inconsistency with using the tornado for recovery and sometimes fail to rise at all
     
  7. Griffard

    Griffard
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    Other threads on this board are dedicated to precisely this question. Personally I recommend that you prepare to enter the down B inputs before executing the move (so buffered out of a side b lag in air for example) and then mash with fore finger and middle finger. That's what I do and while I don't get the maximum height everytime (or ever?) I do get a rise or neutral every time depending on my need and my preparation.
     
  8. Eddy 007

    Eddy 007
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    Thank you so much for doing this guide! :colorful:
     
  9. sskylann

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    This is great, thanks! i don't know why Nintendo had to make his recovery so damn hard :ohwell:
    Also, so lets say i'm fighting a Samus, and they shoot a missile at me so i down b (uncharged), and my tornado is canceled since it clashes with the missile. Does this means I successfully charged it?
     
  10. Stride

    Stride
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    The answer to that question is in the main post. Read the quote at the bottom.
     
    #10 Stride, Jun 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
  11. Stride

    Stride
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    schmooblidon, I've made some updates to my post to improve the grammar/formatting slightly and to incorporate the information about the frame for losing the charge being frame 44 (since just using the word "finish" was misleading and technically wrong).

    It also now explains how this:
    literally means "any point during the move". You can be airborne on frame 44 (causing the charge to be lost) and then land after that but before the animation is over, and you will end up with the charge.
     
    #11 Stride, Jun 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
  12. schmooblidon

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    sweet, updated the op
     
    Stride likes this.
  13. sskylann

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    Thanks for the reply. I just wanted to make sure because I didn't know if clashing with other moves changes anything.
     
  14. supa*

    supa*
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    Any advice on mashing would be greatly appreciated. I don't know why they thought having to press the same button 19 times in under a second was a fair thing to do.

    I've been trying while holding the controller normally, but my thumb just isn't that fast. Is there a better way to hold the controller to mash it out?
     
    #14 supa*, Nov 21, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
    sskylann likes this.
  15. Yann J.Ridin

    Yann J.Ridin
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    Certainly worte it somewhere already: Tense all your arm, make tremble your arm to mash better, don t relally moye the dumb
     
  16. BestFriendJohn

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    I usually use the tense method with my arm and mash b with my index finder. You'll have plenty of time beforehand and after to move your hand back into position because of how floaty luigi is and the end lag of the move after. I heard axe does an alternating two finger mash when he does his rapid jab. Vudujin uses his index but you can see him put the controller close to his face. No clue how abate or eddy does it though. It's mostly just a personal preference and experience of what you're most comfortable with.
     
  17. ElCid

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  18. supa*

    supa*
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    I feel like I'm in the world of DBZ and his fingers are moving too fast for the human eye to follow.

    Interesting tips. I'll try these suggestions out when I can find a GCN next. Thanks!
     

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