Rising Cyclone (PTP) Frame Data Guide

schmooblidon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
491
#1
:luigimelee: Luigi Rising Cyclone (PTP) Frame Data Guide

Luigi can rise with his Down-B move by mashing B rapidly during the startup. Before he is able to, he must first "charge" his Down-B by performing it once beforehand. You can rise every other cyclone you perform. A rising cyclone is most useful for recovering, but could be used for killing an opponent off the top. A PTP (Perfect Tornado Press) loosely refers to a rising tornado/cyclone that gains enough height to be useful, the minimum for height gain is 6 presses.

You can also hold left or right to move horizontally whilst rising, it has no effect on height gain. Holding up or down will do nothing. For each seperate press of B, you must release B for at least 1 frame before another press can be read. Distributing presses between frames 6-43 is crucial. If you do not mash for ~7 frames at the start or ~11 frames near the end, you will lose too much momentum and will lose height.

Luigi's PTP is very similar to Doc and Mario's but there are some key differences besides charging.

* Mashing from frame 1-5 will do nothing, and you move a little downward (cancelling any upward momentum).
Frame 6-43 is your window to mash.

* Because of the initial downward movement, the sooner you start mashing from frame 6, the sooner you cancel it, thus gaining more height. 19 Presses from frame 6 will give the maximum possible height.

* Due to Luigi's floatiness it is better to mash faster at the beginning as to cancel the downward momentum as quickly as possible.

So there are three variables that change height with his. When you start mashing, how many presses and how you distribute the presses.

You can do a 5 press and start on frame 6, that will get you to where you started. 6 presses is when you start gaining height.

Here is a visual gfy to show the differences in cyclone heights. I started mashing on frame 6 every time. I double jump on frame 80 (first frame possible) to show the true height gain for each variant.

http://gfycat.com/InformalZestyDove

Because of the initial downward movement, I first fullhop and start the cyclone on frame 4. This is only for the purpose of the gifs, you will most likely be using this far enough away from a surface to land.

Optimal - 19 Presses with Horizontal DI

http://gfycat.com/TotalFastJanenschia

0 - Airbourne
1 - Down + B
2 - Hold Right (Can start DI'ing horizontally)
.
.
6 - B (Can start mashing now)
7 -
8 - B
9 -
10 - B
11 -
12 - B
13 -
14 - B
15 -
16 - B
17 -
18 - B
19 -
20 - B
21 -
22 - B
23 -
24 - B
25 -
26 - B
27 -
28 - B
29 -
30 - B
31 -
32 - B
33 -
34 - B
35 -
36 - B
37 -
38 - B
39 -
40 - B
41 -
42 - B
43 - (last hitbox)
44 - DIing and Mashing no longer works
.
.
77 - Can buffer a DoubleJump with Up
80 - Can now drift/dj/up-b/whatever

Best 6 Press with Horizontal DI

http://gfycat.com/FluffyFlawedAttwatersprairiechicken

0 - Airbourne
1 - Down + B
2 - Hold Right (Can start DI'ing horizontally)
.
.
6 - B (Can start mashing now)
7 -
8 -
9 -
10 -
11 - B
12 -
13 -
14 -
15 -
16 -
17 - B
18 -
19 -
20 -
21 -
22 -
23 - B
24 -
25 -
26 -
27 -
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 - B
32 -
33 -
34 -
35 -
36 -
37 -
38 -
39 -
40 -
41 - B
42 -
43 - (last hitbox)
44 - DIing and Mashing no longer works
.
.
77 - Can buffer a DoubleJump with Up
80 - Can now drift/dj/up-b/whatever


Other useful information:
The cyclone can be thought of as having 2 states: "charged" and "uncharged". If it is charged, then Luigi can rise during an aerial cyclone by mashing the B button. The cyclone has to be initiated in the air for Luigi to be able to rise with it; initiating it on the ground and then moving off the edge with it will not allow Luigi to rise except in a special circumstance which is documented in this thread:http://smashboards.com/threads/super-tornado.304128/.

When Luigi touches the ground at any point during the move (which lasts for 79 frames), the state is set to "charged" (even if the cyclone was initiated in the air). If Luigi is airborne on frame 44 of the cyclone, then the state is set to "uncharged". Only frame 44 matters; being airborne on any other frame will not lose the charge. Note that gaining the charge and losing the charge are independent of one another; so you can gain the charge and then lose it, or vice versa, during the same cyclone.

The charge will still be lost/gained if the cyclone is interrupted, regardless of how it is done. This includes by being hit out of the cyclone (even by projectiles or moves with inert hitbubbles such as Peach Bomber), grabbed out of it (even with command grabs such as Captain Falcon's up-B), dying during it, or clanking.

Attempting to rise has no effect on the charge.

Miscellaneous information
There's little-to-no risk of losing the charge when using cyclone on the ground; you would have to fall off an edge somehow before frame 44, and remain airborne until the move is over (which would mean you'd have to be airborne for at least 35 frames). It is very unsafe to use on platforms though, since you are vulnerable (stuck in the cyclone animation) and if you need to move off the platform away from your opponent you're at a high risk of getting hit (and losing your charge).

Keeping a charge for recovery does not, at any percentage, preclude using cyclone to approach (or tech-chase, etc.) on the ground. However, if you're recovering at high percent and have a low chance of making it back to the stage, then you may want to not use your cyclone (and therefore reduce your chance of recovering successfully) so that you won't have to put yourself at risk charging it on the next stock if you do fail to recover.

Luigi starts off the game with a charge in some circumstances:
http://smashboards.com/threads/luigis-down-b-starting-charged.292168/
http://smashboards.com/threads/matc...arged-are-different-in-the-pal-version.354939
When doing a charged cyclone in the air, being interrupted between frames 1-43 will still keep the charge. If it is interrupted on frames 44+, you will lose the charge.
 
Last edited:

Stride

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
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Location
North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
#3
Thank you for making this.

Do you know what frame counts as "completion" for the purposes of storing/losing a charge? I would assume it would be the last frame, but there's a chance it could be a different one (maybe the frame after the last frame with an active hitbox)?

Also, the section you quoted from me contains errors. Most importantly, I now realise that getting hit out of the cyclone in the air does not consume the charge (I only discovered this recently; I'm not sure how I ended up thinking that it did consume the charge when I tested it originally, but I tested it properly/more thoroughly and with frame advance this time). I also understand the way the technical details behind how the charge actually works more accurately now. It also could have been written more clearly, and have used the term "cyclone" instead of "tornado". I've updated it and posted it here so you can edit it into your post:

Stride said:
The cyclone can be thought of as having 2 states: "charged" and "uncharged". If it is charged, then Luigi can rise during an aerial cyclone by mashing the B button. The cyclone has to be initiated in the air for Luigi to be able to rise with it; initiating it on the ground and then moving off the edge with it will not allow Luigi to rise except in a special circumstance which is documented in this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/super-tornado.304128/.

When Luigi touches the ground at any point during the move (which lasts for 79 frames), the state is set to "charged" (even if the cyclone was initiated in the air). If Luigi is airborne on frame 44 of the cyclone, then the state is set to "uncharged". Only frame 44 matters; being airborne on any other frame will not lose the charge. Note that gaining the charge and losing the charge are independent of one another; so you can gain the charge and then lose it, or vice versa, during the same cyclone.

The charge will still be lost/gained if the cyclone is interrupted, regardless of how it is done. This includes by being hit out of the cyclone (even by projectiles or moves with inert hitbubbles such as Peach Bomber), grabbed out of it (even with command grabs such as Captain Falcon's up-B), dying during it, or clanking.

Attempting to rise has no effect on the charge.

Miscellaneous information
There's little-to-no risk of losing the charge when using cyclone on the ground; you would have to fall off an edge somehow before frame 44, and remain airborne until the move is over (which would mean you'd have to be airborne for at least 35 frames). It is very unsafe to use on platforms though, since you are vulnerable (stuck in the cyclone animation) and if you need to move off the platform away from your opponent you're at a high risk of getting hit (and losing your charge).

Keeping a charge for recovery does not, at any percentage, preclude using cyclone to approach (or tech-chase, etc.) on the ground. However, if you're recovering at high percent and have a low chance of making it back to the stage, then you may want to not use your cyclone (and therefore reduce your chance of recovering successfully) so that you won't have to put yourself at risk charging it on the next stock if you do fail to recover.

Luigi starts off the game with a charge in some circumstances:
http://smashboards.com/threads/luigis-down-b-starting-charged.292168/
http://smashboards.com/threads/matc...arged-are-different-in-the-pal-version.354939
 
Last edited:

schmooblidon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
491
#4
Gunna have to get back to you on that one. I'll figure it out tomorrow.

Thanks for touching that up, I've added it to the guide.
I also fixed a bunch of stuff I wrote. Keep figuring new stuff out.
 

schmooblidon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
491
#5
Ok so you do a charged tornado in the air, you get hit between 1-43 and you will keep the charge, hit on 44+ and you lose it. That's the frame after the last hitbox.

If you do an uncharged tornado on the ground, you can get hit on the very first frame and still gain the charge.
 
Last edited:

The Carpenter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
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Location
New Jersey
#6
Any advice for efficiency as far as the actual performance of the button inputs? I have a ton of inconsistency with using the tornado for recovery and sometimes fail to rise at all
 
Joined
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Location
Geneva, IL/New Orleans, LA
#7
Any advice for efficiency as far as the actual performance of the button inputs? I have a ton of inconsistency with using the tornado for recovery and sometimes fail to rise at all
Other threads on this board are dedicated to precisely this question. Personally I recommend that you prepare to enter the down B inputs before executing the move (so buffered out of a side b lag in air for example) and then mash with fore finger and middle finger. That's what I do and while I don't get the maximum height everytime (or ever?) I do get a rise or neutral every time depending on my need and my preparation.
 

sskylann

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
15
#9
This is great, thanks! i don't know why Nintendo had to make his recovery so damn hard :ohwell:
Also, so lets say i'm fighting a Samus, and they shoot a missile at me so i down b (uncharged), and my tornado is canceled since it clashes with the missile. Does this means I successfully charged it?
 

Stride

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Messages
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Location
North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
#10
This is great, thanks! i don't know why Nintendo had to make his recovery so damn hard :ohwell:
Also, so lets say i'm fighting a Samus, and they shoot a missile at me so i down b (uncharged), and my tornado is canceled since it clashes with the missile. Does this means I successfully charged it?
The answer to that question is in the main post. Read the quote at the bottom.
 
Last edited:

Stride

Smash Ace
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Messages
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Location
North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
#11
schmooblidon schmooblidon , I've made some updates to my post to improve the grammar/formatting slightly and to incorporate the information about the frame for losing the charge being frame 44 (since just using the word "finish" was misleading and technically wrong).

It also now explains how this:
When Luigi touches the ground at any point during the move, the state is set to "charged" (even if the cyclone was initiated it the air).
literally means "any point during the move". You can be airborne on frame 44 (causing the charge to be lost) and then land after that but before the animation is over, and you will end up with the charge.
 
Last edited:

schmooblidon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
491
#12
schmooblidon schmooblidon , I've made some updates to my post to improve the grammar/formatting slightly and to incorporate the information about the frame for losing the charge being frame 44 (since just using the word "finish" was misleading and technically wrong).

It also now explains how this:

literally means "any point during the move". You can be airborne on frame 44 (causing the charge to be lost) and then land after that but before the animation is over, and you will end up with the charge.
sweet, updated the op
 

sskylann

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
15
#13
schmooblidon schmooblidon , I've made some updates to my post to improve the grammar/formatting slightly and to incorporate the information about the frame for losing the charge being frame 44 (since just using the word "finish" was misleading and technically wrong).

It also now explains how this:

literally means "any point during the move". You can be airborne on frame 44 (causing the charge to be lost) and then land after that but before the animation is over, and you will end up with the charge.
Thanks for the reply. I just wanted to make sure because I didn't know if clashing with other moves changes anything.
 

supa*

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
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Location
Tokyo, Japan
#14
Any advice on mashing would be greatly appreciated. I don't know why they thought having to press the same button 19 times in under a second was a fair thing to do.

I've been trying while holding the controller normally, but my thumb just isn't that fast. Is there a better way to hold the controller to mash it out?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
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Location
Houston
#16
I usually use the tense method with my arm and mash b with my index finder. You'll have plenty of time beforehand and after to move your hand back into position because of how floaty luigi is and the end lag of the move after. I heard axe does an alternating two finger mash when he does his rapid jab. Vudujin uses his index but you can see him put the controller close to his face. No clue how abate or eddy does it though. It's mostly just a personal preference and experience of what you're most comfortable with.
 
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