Returning Sm4sh Mechanics. Go or No?

[GoldTrainRider]

Hey. I was wondering if I could get ya'll's opinion on Sm4sh mechanics returning in Smash for Switch. By these, I mean:

2 people being able to occupy the ledge at the same time.

Being able to grab the ledge when someone is on it, (this means ledge trumping makes a return)

Being able to air dodge more than once in midair. (If not, should they be in special fall?)

Rage.

Perfect-pivoting/Bidou

Air/Ground grab releases.

I encourage you to reply to this with your thoughts on each specific mechanic. I will have a poll you can answer too, but tell me why if you reply. Thanks.

 

[MERPIS]

ANYTHING BUT RAGE!
It gives already braindead characters an even bigger advantage if their opponent's character is lacking kill power. There's nothing more greasy than dying at 40% from a ding dong as mewtwo because Donkey kong, the hardest character to use in the game, grabs you when he's at 120%

 

[KEYLIME SSB]

We want wavedashing back.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

We want wavedashing back.

You do, but I'm glad it's gone.

As for Smash 4 mechanics, I'm fine with them returning. It felt the closest to a balanced game to me.

 

[The_Bookworm]

ANYTHING BUT RAGE!
It gives already braindead characters an even bigger advantage if their opponent's character is lacking kill power. There's nothing more greasy than dying at 40% from a ding dong as mewtwo because Donkey kong, the hardest character to use in the game, grabs you when he's at 120%

Rage also makes kill confirms and combos impossible at certain percentages, and I hate when some players think it overcentralizes the meta when it obviously doesn't. I would like it back, but I would like it to be able to be turned off and on at will.

 

[Ty Gillis]

I would really like more movement options to up the skill ceiling from smash 4

 

[KEYLIME SSB]

I would really like more movement options to up the skill ceiling from smash 4

WAVEDASHING

 

[Ze Diglett]

Honestly, just reduce the ledgegrab radius and nerf airdodge spam so offstage isn't the safest place in the world anymore, and I'm good. I, personally, would propose a limited airdodge system, kind of like in Melee, only it doesn't put you into helpless, just prevents you from airdodging again until you touch the ground or get hit.
Also, no more rage. Please. It was an interesting idea and certainly worth a shot, but got annoying very quickly and I'm fairly certain the series will just be better off without it going forward.

 

[GoldTrainRider]

Honestly, just reduce the ledgegrab radius and nerf airdodge spam so offstage isn't the safest place in the world anymore, and I'm good. I, personally, would propose a limited airdodge system, kind of like in Melee, only it doesn't put you into helpless, just prevents you from airdodging again until you touch the ground or get hit.
Also, no more rage. Please. It was an interesting idea and certainly worth a shot, but got annoying very quickly and I'm fairly certain the series will just be better off without it going forward.

yee. I agree with that. I think perfect pivoting should return, and I don't like the old ledge rules, so I want the ones in Sm4sh to be in Sma5h

 

[Lyndis_]

Give me wavedashing, dash dancing and the old airdodges. It would never happen, but it's a fun mechanic I'm still sad to see gone, even if it's original implementation wasn't intentional.

I am otherwise fine with every mechanic they want to put in or keep, just so long as it isn't tripping or l-canceling. I don't want those anywhere near the game.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I really want the mechanics from Smash 3DS / Wii U to come back, because those two games did a blessing with the way they handle the Autolink Angle; there are three different types, but value 366 is the most notable Autolink Angle type. I can't say much about the Rage mechanic though, since you apparently don't see it much when you only face CPU players.

In regards to edge-hogging, I think it's good that multiple fighters can grab ledges at the same time, since when some fighters try to recover, they have to grab the ledge to ensure a successful recovery. If edge-hogging returned, you're basically giving the middle finger to the fighters who depend on ledge grabs for survival.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

what is a bidou. it sounds like a budget bidoof, which was already a budget pokemon

 

[R3D3MON]

what is a bidou. it sounds like a budget bidoof, which was already a budget pokemon

It's a super niche control setup. I'm not quite sure why it's part of the voting choices since it isn't really a mechanic at all.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

I would love to see rage come back since I believe it had the right idea of trying to add some reward for living at 100%+
But we as a community know what it could result to. (with a pinch of salt here and there)

So I feel a nice adjustment is all we need to keep the game a tad more engaging but not overbearing:

-Max Rage knockback multiplier: 1.15x → 1.1x
-Rage starting point: 35% → 80%
-Rage ending point: 150% → 180%

 

[SSBBDaisy]

I want approach options and safe shield pressure. Smash 4 didn't have either of those.

 

[DakotaBonez]

There are even more subtle changes Sm4sh made to the gameplay.

Sm4sh made it so that character's ledge attacks are the same, even when they are above 100%, in the previous games character's ledge attacks would change and become slow when character's are over 100%
I think everyone can agree that this minor fix was great.

But then Sm4sh added something even dumber, if you are launched over 100%, you have a 30% chance of getting stuck in an untechable spin animation that prevents the player from ground teching.
I think everyone can agree that this sucks, and was probably an oversight on the developers part.

I want approach options and safe shield pressure. Smash 4 didn't have either of those.

Seriously, taking a fully charged side-smash should leave the opponent in shield-stun long enough for me to get away from a counter-attack.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

But then Sm4sh added something even dumber, if you are launched over 100%, you have a 30% chance of getting stuck in an untechable spin animation that prevents the player from ground teching.
I think everyone can agree that this sucks, and was probably an oversight on the developers part.

I have noticed that if a fighter is sent flying vertically, and is in a spinning animation, he/she apparently survives slightly longer than if placed in any other kind of damage animation. So there is some sort of positive for being placed in a spinning animation.

 

[Crystanium]

Rage
If rage is going to return, I would hope that it starts at 150% and that it activates on its own for say 10 seconds. After that, it's gone. I don't like having to learn at what percent I have to be and at what percent my opponent has to be in order to for me to land combos. Most characters might not even make it to 150%. The reason why the rage mechanic even helps some characters is because once damage is taken, the rage begins. Let it start at 150% instead if it's going to return. Otherwise, just get rid of it. It causes a lot of jank.

Untechable
I'm in favor of the helpless state of characters when they're hit at above 100% and cannot tech. Some might be opposed to it. I suspect it might be due to getting killed as a result or taking unnecessary damage. I favor this, however, since it more often than not assists me in landing a full charge shot to finish the job. Sorry, Beefy Smash Doods, but teching isn't a "skillful" mechanic. Even a casual player can perform it.

Balance
(I main Samus, so for those of you who don't, but might end up reading my post, feel free to ignore this part.)
Sm4sh is pretty balanced, more balanced than its predecessors. Perhaps the main factor for this is due in part to updates. I hope Nintendo will continue with this. Still, it bothers me that a character like Bowser can run so fast in Sm4sh, but if he's going to be the heaviest character and deal a lot of damage, perhaps his speed should be toned down. After all, Samus has the speed, but she's somehow slower than Bowser (and even Donkey Kong).

An ideal version of Samus would be a well-rounded character. She's already got long-ranged attacks. She's 6-7 heaviest. Still, in spite of Metroid: Other M showcasing Samus' ability to perform CQC, she still struggles in Sm4sh. She was in the army, after all. (SPOILER) And this time, it's not acceptable for her to be struggling in CQC. (SPOILER) So please do me and everyone who loves and hates Samus a favor. Make Samus a well-balanced character. Her missiles and super missiles are already ****, so at least give her some good CQC attacks.

Two-Frame
I hope this stays.

Footstool
99% of the time, this is performed unintentionally. I hate it, but I doubt it's going anywhere.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Balance
(I main Samus, so for those of you who don't, but might end up reading my post, feel free to ignore this part.)
Sm4sh is pretty balanced, more balanced than its predecessors. Perhaps the main factor for this is due in part to updates. I hope Nintendo will continue with this. Still, it bothers me that a character like Bowser can run so fast in Sm4sh, but if he's going to be the heaviest character and deal a lot of damage, perhaps his speed should be toned down. After all, Samus has the speed, but she's somehow slower than Bowser (and even Donkey Kong).

An ideal version of Samus would be a well-rounded character. She's already got long-ranged attacks. She's 6-7 heaviest. Still, in spite of Metroid: Other M showcasing Samus' ability to perform CQC, she still struggles in Sm4sh. She was in the army, after all. (SPOILER) And this time, it's not acceptable for her to be struggling in CQC. (SPOILER) So please do me and everyone who loves and hates Samus a favor. Make Samus a well-balanced character. Her missiles and super missiles are already ****, so at least give her some good CQC attacks.

Bowser needs a buff tbh.

 

[Crystanium]

Bowser needs a buff tbh.

I think his flame breath should be replaced with fireballs. It's a custom, but that's what Bowser was known for doing early on in Super Mario Bros. That kind of projectile could force his opponent to approach.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think his flame breath should be replaced with fireballs. It's a custom, but that's what Bowser was known for doing early on in Super Mario Bros. That kind of projectile could force his opponent to approach.

There is a delay between flames though, so Fire Shot is not entirely fool-proof.

 

[Crystanium]

Bowser needs a buff tbh.

Bowser ranks 56% on the tier list. In a version of the tier list that I have proposed, that puts Bowser at high mid-tier. He's doing fairly well.

There is a delay between flames though, so Fire Shot is not entirely fool-proof.

I never said it was fool-proof or entirely fool-proof. I was simply stating that Bowser could rely on projectiles to force his opponent to approach. It appears that Fire Shot takes up to 20 frames before the initial fireball appears in a very small form. This is assuming Sm4sh for the 3DS is running 60 fps.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Bowser ranks 56% on the tier list. In a version of the tier list that I have proposed, that puts Bowser at high mid-tier. He's doing fairly well.



I never said it was fool-proof or entirely fool-proof. I was simply stating that Bowser could rely on projectiles to force his opponent to approach. It appears that Fire Shot takes up to 20 frames before the initial fireball appears in a very small form. This is assuming Sm4sh for the 3DS is running 60 fps.

But Bowser isn't doing so well right now, with his (and DK's) weaknesses and matchup issues getting more exploited in the current meta. His solo results is merely average and his results as a whole is dropping (though it is respectably average as a whole).

 

[Crystanium]

But Bowser isn't doing so well right now, with his (and DK's) weaknesses and matchup issues getting more exploited in the current meta. His solo results is merely average and his results as a whole is dropping (though it is respectably average as a whole).

I don't know why Bowser isn't doing well, but he's doing better than he has before. Something tells me his weight plays a huge part in exploiting his weaknesses. I'm sure we all want some character we like to be better. And, I don't know why anyone would even solo a character. It's always an option, but not particularly a wise one.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just to be clear, Bowser is better than he was in Melee and Brawl, but he's still a big and heavy target that's vulnerable to combo attacks. Also, even with his tough guy traits, a good portion of attacks deal enough knockback to make Bowser flinch.

As such, even with the buffs, Bowser is at best, a mid-tier fighter, but he does make KOs with less effort than some of the higher ranking fighters.

 

[R3D3MON]

And, I don't know why anyone would even solo a character. It's always an option, but not particularly a wise one.

Wut?

 

[The_Bookworm]

Just to be clear, Bowser is better than he was in Melee and Brawl, but he's still a big and heavy target that's vulnerable to combo attacks. Also, even with his tough guy traits, a good portion of attacks deal enough knockback to make Bowser flinch.

As such, even with the buffs, Bowser is at best, a mid-tier fighter, but he does make KOs with less effort than some of the higher ranking fighters.

Him being better than in Melee and Brawl is undisputed and obvious. I agree with this though.