Retreating Pivot Grabs: A useful AT?

[Bellioes]

**Retreating Pivot Grab**

As it says in the title, this is a new technique discovered by BengalRZ on the Marth boards. I take no credit whats so ever for the discovery of this technique and below is the link to the original thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=231916
Check the original thread before reading on because I wont be explaining the technique here.

___________________________________________________________

Before I go on, I know I had you read BengalRZ' thread but Im going to make a slight change to his method of doing this AT; Just dont dash before doing the pivot part. Youll retreating pivot grab on the spot and its a lot quicker.
Anyways, I did a lot of testing on this AT and found out that Diddy is one of the characters who slides the most. He goes backwards about as far as his Initial Dash Animation which is pretty long (just tap forwards on the control stick; thats how far he slides during the RPG ) Its a DAC Pivot Grab but twice as long. I can see numerous small little applications for this ( ie. using this in spot dodge wars when you dont have a banana out to not only throw the opponents timing off but to retreat while covering your tracks with a grab)

Anyways, I made this thread to hear your thoughts on this. Do you guys think it can help Diddys game? I can see it being used for better spacing and to reset the situation when your under pressure and need to retreat. It might even be a good idea to use this instead of the standing grab in certain situations since its theoretically impossible to be punished after the grab because of how far you slide.

So yeah... Discuss away

 

[Thibault]

... i think this is an old tech......... yoshis do it a lot and so does lucas

 

[Kaptain Kong]

this could be kinda useful after a trip if your opponent rolls behind you i guess...

ill have to try it out.
post a vid if you can with diddy doing it

 

[Bellioes]

... i think this is an old tech......... yoshis do it a lot and so does lucas

Oh...
Ive never heard of this before though
But then theres the fact that I dont know much about Yoshi and Lucas
So yeah, I still want to here what you guys think

EDIT: Sorry no recording equipment
All I can say is that he slides far. Like I said in the OP, he goes as far as his Initial Dash Animation.

 

[PhatyCHONG]

It seems like it could be idea against snake's Usmash [Mortar] because in the snake match-up a key to win is through grabs and snake uses his mortar quite often. Conclusion its a good way to grab and avoid the mortar.

I don't know if this works as I have not tried it but, just giving it thought. If so. . . :D!

 

[Bellioes]

Very situational but I guess your right. Especially since if the grab connects, you pull them back with you allowing you to grab a mortaring Snake without the risk of getting hit by the mortar itself.

 

[DFEAR]

i only do if i predict the roll and want to throw a certain way but when you place the bananas a certain way and pressure the opponent into doing what you want its quite common really o.o just dont abuse it is all. i approve :3

 

[Ingulit]

Won't this achieve the same effect as a RBPG?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=220729
/shameless self promotion to prove a point

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Le_THieN]

Won't this achieve the same effect as a RBPG?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=220729
/shameless self promotion to prove a point

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Pivot grabs in Brawl are typically longer in range and shorter in total animation than normal dash grabs. The problem that I always saw when you apply Diddy Kong's reverse boost pivot grab the same way Falcos utilize theirs is that the sliding distance isn't always reliable enough to get Diddy behind his opponent.

I like this technique a lot for a number of reasons:

• increased grab range
• positioning is considerably less of an issue (i.e. you're not required to potentially raise vulnerability by running past your opponent's position)
• less cumbersome button inputs
• it has potential to bait shields, throw off spot-dodge timing, and expand tech-chasing tools
• its combination of approaching and retreating elements make it a great deal safer than dash-grabbing

I'm going to spend a some time testing this tomorrow. This looks extremely promising.

EDIT: I was reading the original thread on the Marth Forums, I can understand why people don't feel like it's a very safe approach for Marth in particular. However, when I saw this, I instantly knew which scenario I wanted to try to apply this to tomorrow. Lately, Everyone around my region has more or less caught up with the times and have started spot-dodging my dash-grabs after I pressure their shields with glide tosses. Most characters actually have frame advantage against you after simply blocking a banana peel (even if you glide-toss point blank), and people are just now starting to realize that the dash-grab out of a glide toss is punishable.

The neat thing about this technique is that if your opponents are conditioned to respond defensively after shielding glide tosses, I can easily see approaching with a retreating pivot grab (LOL?) useful in punishing things like spot-dodging. Of course, you could easily just run past their spot-dodge and do a normal pivot grab, but this at least gives us another shield-pressure mix-up option and another option to consider out of glide tosses.

The other reason I've taken such an immediate liking to it is because I like to mix up my approaches with foxtrots and dash-canceled shields; having a useful option like this out of foxtrots gives me a lot of unique answers and alternatives to some of my defensive movements.

 

[Remzi]

Pivot grabs in Brawl are typically longer in range and shorter in total animation than normal dash grabs. The problem that I always saw when you apply Diddy Kong's reverse boost pivot grab the same way Falcos utilize theirs is that the sliding distance isn't always reliable enough to get Diddy behind his opponent.

I like this technique a lot for a number of reasons:

• increased grab range
• positioning is considerably less of an issue (i.e. you're not required to potentially raise vulnerability by running past your opponent's position)
• less cumbersome button inputs
• it has potential to bait shields, throw off spot-dodge timing, and expand tech-chasing tools
• its combination of approaching and retreating elements make it a great deal safer than dash-grabbing

I'm going to spend a some time testing this tomorrow. This looks extremely promising.

EDIT: I was reading the original thread on the Marth Forums, I can understand why people don't feel like it's a very safe approach for Marth in particular. However, when I saw this, I instantly knew which scenario I wanted to try to apply this to tomorrow. Lately, Everyone around my region has more or less caught up with the times and have started spot-dodging my dash-grabs after I pressure their shields with glide tosses. Most characters actually have frame advantage against you after simply blocking a banana peel (even if you glide-toss point blank), and people are just now starting to realize that the dash-grab out of a glide toss is punishable.

The neat thing about this technique is that if your opponents are conditioned to respond defensively after shielding glide tosses, I can easily see approaching with a retreating pivot grab (LOL?) useful in punishing things like spot-dodging. Of course, you could easily just run past their spot-dodge and do a normal pivot grab, but this at least gives us another shield-pressure mix-up option and another option to consider out of glide tosses.

The other reason I've taken such an immediate liking to it is because I like to mix up my approaches with foxtrots and dash-canceled shields; having a useful option like this out of foxtrots gives me a lot of unique answers and alternatives to some of my defensive movements.

Sounds interesting, let me know how that turns out

 

[Bellioes]

Very interesting read Le THiEn. I really like the different uses youve come up with for the retreating pivot grab. Especially, the messing up the timing on your opponents spot dodge. As I said in the OP, this could be good in spot dodge wars but I see being used against opponents who spot dodge a lot too.

EDIT: Also, at the first post, Lucas cant even do this technique (as in he gets no slide). I finished testing the rest of the cast for BengalsRZ and Lucas' retreating pivot grab is the same as his normal pivot grab

 

[TreK]

Rickerdy-doo-da-day, a peach main from england has been doing it to me when i VSed him ; this or something of the like. So yeah this is deadly lawl
I tried to mimic this but i can't get true pivot down. At all

 

[Bellioes]

Just go. while facing right, right>left>right+grab really fast in a row. You should slide left while grabbing to the right. Just work on doing it this way before you add the dash. Hope that helped.

EDIT: Also, Peach cant do this technique either. She gets no slide and if she does, its too small to make it any different from a regular pivot grab.