Retracted

[Bakuryu]

Would that same river water down Brawl's gameplay, making it slow, uncomplex and stale compared to Melee's?

I enjoy and play every game in the franchise, but the removal of wavedashing is a legitimate complaint.

Only if it was replaced with another great spacing technique. Wavedashing showed how completely inefficient rolling was. Because of the nature of smash back dashing isn't as nice as it is in normal fighters as you are now facing the other way requiring you to move forward, cancel your run if you don't want to do a running attack, or short hop which usually tends to be the bet since you can do it from the initial back run (dash?) and b-air with most characters. Much like King of Fighters I think dashing and rolling can have a place in the game since they have situations that call for each and it adds more options for people to keep the opponent guessing when attempting to get a better position.

Again my 2 cents XD

 

[Ferio_Kun]

Only if it was replaced with another great spacing technique. Wavedashing showed how completely inefficient rolling was. Because of the nature of smash back dashing isn't as nice as it is in normal fighters as you are now facing the other way requiring you to move forward, cancel your run if you don't want to do a running attack, or short hop which usually tends to be the bet since you can do it from the initial back run (dash?) and b-air with most characters. Much like King of Fighters I think dashing and rolling can have a place in the game since they have situations that call for each and it adds more options for people to keep the opponent guessing when attempting to get a better position.

Again my 2 cents XD

I agree with this. If they made a backwards and forwards "dash" that was balanced well with all characters, I would be ALL for this. I see it's usefulness even though I thought wavedashing was stupid due to the fact that it was an unintended exploit. But I 100% support a move that had a similar use but was actually well thought out and balanced on a character to character basis. (Wavedashing wasn't balanced with all characters)

 

[Vkrm]

If you can't win without Snaking,
LEARN TO ****ING SNAKE. Why developers make changes to help people who don't really want to take the game seriously is beyond me. The people sakurai made brawl for have no idea, and it just hurts the scene since we actually want to take the game seriously in the first place. If there are skill based elements in the game we seek to learn them.

Why wasn't wavedashing balanced ferio_Kun?

I think it's obvious bakuryu does not understand the point of rolling. It's not supposed to be used for mobility. Did you know rolls have invincibility? Or that you can roll without sitting through shield lowering lag. It's supposed to be used as an escape from shield pressure.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Ferio
Wavedashing is one of the least unbalanced mechanics in the game. Every character can do it, and more often than not, it became a focal point (and helper) of the lower/lowest tier characters the most. Weak characters like Mewtwo, Ness, Roy, and average characters like Luigi and Young Link heavily rely on wavedashing. While it does give another powerful option for the likes of the space animals and Marth, it's not like they wouldn't already be really good with all their aerials.

As for wavedashing in future installments, just give us back wavelanding. At least it's realistic. And while we're at it, give us a better, faster dodge roll, and quicker acceleration while running. Although I find the timing of this debate funny, because the term "wavedash" comes from Tekken (3 I believe), which was made by *drum roll* Namco Bandai. It's funny how that works.

It's also funny that Namco Bandai (along with some of the folks who ended up working at HAL Laboratories [the folks who developed Smash 64 and Melee, and where Sakurai worked from the late 80's to early 00's]) also made The Outfoxies, the first Smash-esk platformer fighting game that Smash Bros. got its' basic mechanics from.

 

[Orngeblu]

Making Mario Kart competitive is less about snaking and more about giving the items depth beyond "press A for advantage". The thunder cloud was a step in the right direction, imo.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOOOOOOOO!!!

I think I have made my point. This is off-topic, so I should probably be on-topic...

Sakurai is going to bring competitiveness back maybe, because he is involving Namco Bandai. (Not say he will 100%, but maybe?)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You're right, practically the only item that required some semblance of strategy was a bad idea.

You get a speed boost while it's above you, so you need to make sure you only transfer it right before it goes off. Clever.

 

[SoulPech]

*sees the title of this thread*

The answer is no.

Real talk.

 

[Vkrm]

The answer could be yes, as long as they make it like melee.

 

[Youngster Joey]

i think they're gonna ive it it's own style. my question is will it be good enough for me to buy a whole new system to play smash bros. i dont want it like melee. if i wanted to play melee i'd go play melee. i want a new game so i hope he makes it amazing. been waiting for this since i found each series' villain haha

 

[Vkrm]

I don't see how you could improve smash without making it at least a little more like melee. It won't be good just because it's new, the game actually needs to be good on it's own. The opposite of brawl pretty much. The smash bros name is what made that turd a best seller.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Melee sucks

 

[Ember Reaper]

i think they're gonna ive it it's own style. my question is will it be good enough for me to buy a whole new system to play smash bros. i dont want it like melee. if i wanted to play melee i'd go play melee. i want a new game so i hope he makes it amazing. been waiting for this since i found each series' villain haha

Yes.
I see it as somewhere between Brawl and Melee because people like both, so it makes sense to splash in stuff from both games.

 

[Vkrm]

Anything they take from brawl will hurt the games quality. Melee is everything that brawl is but better.....faster too. Inb4 ******** melee2.0 cut and paste arguments. Melee was smash64 2.0 brawl should have been like that as well.

 

[Twinkles]

Melee is by far my favorite game out of the three, but I can safely say that Melee is NOT smash64 2.0. Melee added a lot, sure, but it's really a wholly different game from 64.

I don't really know what the **** they're gonna do with smash 4, but all I really wanna see happen is have a platforming adventure mode that doesn't suck huge ****, something with a lot of room for fun exploration, kinda like the underground maze level in melee. I don't like the beat-em-up sections they added in SSE and I'd like better platforming sections to put to test all of a character's movement options (walljumping, wallclinging, gliding, special b-attacks, or **** like that).

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Anyone who says Melee is 64 2.0 has no idea what they are talking about. Anyone who says that anything taken from brawl and put into SSB4 will lower the game's quality has no idea what they are talking about.

Super Smash Brothers Next needs to look at the scope of all three games and take what is best from them. I also would most definitely say that making a Melee 2.0, or a Brawl 2.0, or a 64 2.0 is not only what they aren't going to do, but it's just plain not a good idea. It not only doesn't take advantage of the three different games we have now, but it also picks a "side" and pleases that side. Instead it needs to set itself apart from the rest and not make any of the previous additions obsolete as they have been doing, and in terms of trying to make the best Smash Bros. yet they need to try and not alienate any of the fanbases, and in order to do that, they need to look back at all three of the games and do as I said before, take what is best from them. Doing so, and adding the capabilities of the Wii U, should make this game very excellent.


Is any of this going to be worth it?

No.

And neither is life.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Life isn't worth what?

 

[Vkrm]

How wasn't melee smash64 2.0? Also I recall the casual crowd loving melee, no one thought it was too hard until sakurai told them so. If they made melee 2.0 the casuals probably wouldnt even notice.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Life isn't worth what?

Uh... living?

 

[Big-Cat]

@ Ferio
Wavedashing is one of the least unbalanced mechanics in the game. Every character can do it, and more often than not, it became a focal point (and helper) of the lower/lowest tier characters the most. Weak characters like Mewtwo, Ness, Roy, and average characters like Luigi and Young Link heavily rely on wavedashing. While it does give another powerful option for the likes of the space animals and Marth, it's not like they wouldn't already be really good with all their aerials.

As for wavedashing in future installments, just give us back wavelanding. At least it's realistic. And while we're at it, give us a better, faster dodge roll, and quicker acceleration while running. Although I find the timing of this debate funny, because the term "wavedash" comes from Tekken (3 I believe), which was made by *drum roll* Namco Bandai. It's funny how that works.

Don't some characters have a harder time performing the wavedash or something? That might be the imbalance he's referring to.

If wavedashing comes back, it needs to return as a proper animation (think Tekken) with an input of it's own (but what?). For the rolls and acceleration, I agree as the rolls and sidestep lose their use as you play more.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That's dumb. Worth is defined by living.
Nothing has any worth when you're dead, so living has to be "worth it".

 

[Vkrm]

@kuma, I tend not to get caught up in appearances or animation unless they are really distracting. Personally I think WD in tekken looks hilarious. In melee if it's like m2k w/ Marth or hax with captain, wding looks baller as ****. Only my opinion of course.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

That's dumb. Worth is defined by living.
Nothing has any worth when you're dead, so living has to be "worth it".

You sir do not know a joke when you see one.

I posted how this game WAS going to be worth it, then afterwards said it wouldn't be worth it, then suddenly said life wasn't either. I understand this is the internet but come on.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I probably would've picked up on it if it were funny

But yes, internet.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Not so much a joke looking for laughs but sarcasm picking on the way the title of this thread is worded and the face coupled with it. Once again, I get this is the internet, but come on. O_O This isn't even on topic!

 

[Vkrm]

How wasn't melee smash64 2.0?

It ****ing was

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Anything they take from brawl will hurt the games quality. Melee is everything that brawl is but better.....faster too. Inb4 ******** melee2.0 cut and paste arguments. Melee was smash64 2.0 brawl should have been like that as well.

There is a big gap between Smash 64 and Melee in terms of gameplay, where as in 64 you can easily K.O opponents by grabspamming and a lot of the neutral attacks the characters do has the knockbacks to be counted as finishing moves (Nair/sex kicks for most characters. Bair, Uair, hell even U-tilt can K.O) at low damage percents. In Melee you actually need to rely on building up damage percent on your opponent before you perfrom a finishing move, and all the overpowered aerial attacks from 64 are build ups to combos in Melee.

So to me, Melee is not 64 2.0. It's an entirely new installment to the series, and for the better. Unlike the route Brawl took.

 

[Vkrm]

I agree with your assessment for the most, but I still consider 64 and melee to be quite similar. Skills developed in melee can be used in 64. Both games have the same flow, neutral game> combo > edge game> reset. But I can see alot of points, the thing is brawl didn't have to be melee2.0 as long as the game itself was made well, and had the same flexibility the first to games had. It didn't though, and the end result is the third game in the SSB series is total booty sweat. The nintendo chars are the reason it sold so well. At its best, brawl is just fan service fighter 4, s'mores and tents addition 2012.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Really, all it took for Brawl to screw a lot of the characters over was removing hitstun. If they didn't get rid of it i think we would still have seen characters like Captain Falcon and Jiggs doing well. L-Cancelling removal is what majorly screwed Ganondorf over. So really, Brawl didn't require much changing to ruin the competive experience. Though i know there are several deeper changes to the mechanic than just the removal of hitstun and L-cancelling. And Brawl sold well because of the popularity and reputation from Melee, and it's audience expanded thanks to the early announcement. it therefore had more than enough time to build up a big auidence and was well known. Much more than 64 and Melee was when they were released. Also, Brawl was more suited for casual players. Which has a bigger number than hardcore gamers.

 

[Vkrm]

Melee 4 hardcore, and brawl for casual is a false dichotomy IMO. EVERYBODY loved melee when it was the newest smash. Melee honestly pleased both.

 

[Gamingboy]

Can't we all just get along? No matter how it's released, and what it's like, I'm sure it'll be a boatload of fun. And if it is either "too casual" or "too hardcore", it's not like the previous games cease to exist.

 

[Ultimate kaos]

I really hope they keep it out if the too casual range ha ha. I just hope they make it something like melee, mechanics wise. But I will still get it regardless because it is smash bros.!!!

 

[Wobbly Headed Bob]

Can't we all just get along? No matter how it's released, and what it's like, I'm sure it'll be a boatload of fun. And if it is either "too casual" or "too hardcore", it's not like the previous games cease to exist.

It's not like the old games are still in EVO either.

 

[grizby2]

It'd be hard to make a game like this not competitive. As long as they don't add more random stuff like tripping it'll be competitively fun.

introducing.. the SNEEZING mechanic!

but ya, it would be pretty hard to make a smash bros. game uncompetitive.

i see it more of a game that you'd bring to a party so you can compete with your friends.

 

[Wobbly Headed Bob]

...

introducing.. the SNEEZING mechanic!

I cried.