Remembering Ken

[ruhtraeel]

My fondest memories were always of Ken vs PC Chris. Particularly in MLG New York 2006. Their fights were always exciting and fast-paced.

Meanwhile in Mexico, Javi and Twin are 3 years ahead of the metagame in the US... Playing lightning melee compared to Ken/PC lol


Ken's decision making was bar none back then, but pretty much every Marth nowadays has at least his level of decision making now. Just that back then it was a different story.

IMO in 2006,

Ken > Javi/Twin/more of Mexico > PC Chris/rest of America

 

[Archangel]

Meanwhile in Mexico, Javi and Twin are 3 years ahead of the metagame in the US... Playing lightning melee compared to Ken/PC lol


Ken's decision making was bar none back then, but pretty much every Marth nowadays has at least his level of decision making now. Just that back then it was a different story.

IMO in 2006,

Ken > Javi/Twin/more of Mexico > PC Chris/rest of America

The Mexican and Brazilian players that I watched in 06 looked like they were playing in 08. I was like...WTF IS THIS o_o! I am pretty sure USA vs those 2 in crews in 06 would have been nasty. They would have wiped the floor with us.

 

[Shadow Huan]

for the record, i was using Black Marth as a casual player long before i ever heard of competitive melee (and long before mew2king started making waves)

i'm talking 2003 here lol. One of my fav names was Zorro, which pretty much explains it XD

 

[Lukahn]

Isai didn't have to remember how to play. I played against him in some teams friendlies early in day 1 and he was playing like any normal player. All he was doing was trolling and making the crowd feel like idiotic for getting him to drive back to the venue just to play a single match in a game that he doesn't enjoy playing anymore.

This. He wasn't out of practice. He just didn't want to play.

 

[\±/Gale\±/]

Well this thread was supposed to be about fond memories of the old days, but it's kind of turned into an argument like I thought it would. Ken was great for his time and sure - Marth players are better now. But I don't think for a second that if Ken still played today, he wouldn't be right up there with them. He's the kind of guy who would figure out why he lost when he did, practice it, and then come back and wipe the floor with them. But, anyway, let's try to stay on task.

 

[wildwookie05]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1gS6eaa7dI&feature=relmfu

Some people just don't like the guy

 

[Archangel]

Well this thread was supposed to be about fond memories of the old days, but it's kind of turned into an argument like I thought it would. Ken was great for his time and sure - Marth players are better now. But I don't think for a second that if Ken still played today, he wouldn't be right up there with them. He's the kind of guy who would figure out why he lost when he did, practice it, and then come back and wipe the floor with them. But, anyway, let's try to stay on task.

I think if Ken played today he would be right up there with Chillin, PC, Azen...etc. Basically he would be in the same boat. You love them, they are legends, but you don't pick them in the Who will place top 5 at _____ tournament thread. I also think it's possible or even likely that Ken would have picked up spacies or sheik. Maybe switched entirely by now.

 

[BlakBlastoise]

Ken would have picked up spacies or sheik. Maybe switched entirely by now.

Didn't ken always have a fox secondary? I'm pretty sure he always had a solid Fox.

 

[Archangel]

Didn't ken always have a fox secondary? I'm pretty sure he always had a solid Fox.

He went Fox against Peach some times(Armada vs M2K comes to mind). I think it's possible if not probable that he would've made the switch by now.

 

[itsbme]

I think if Ken came back and played in prime form, he'd be the best again. Or at least near the top.

My fondest memory was watching his marth for the first time. Even to this day, I've never seen another player that played Marth as fluidly as he did. He had a unique way of playing him and there probably won't be anyone that will emulate that.

 

[Archangel]

I think if Ken came back and played in prime form, he'd be the best again. Or at least near the top.

My fondest memory was watching his marth for the first time. Even to this day, I've never seen another player that played Marth as fluidly as he did. He had a unique way of playing him and there probably won't be anyone that will emulate that.

.....

 

[EPsilon933]

"Ken wasn't really that good. Everyone else just sucked" -Mew2King

 

[Bing]

I dont think Ken would be near the top. People have figured out so many of Marth's flaws, couple that with the increase in overall skill, intelligence and speed. Im not saying he couldnt make a run, but I think the amount of credit given is just a bit too much. He WAS the best player in the world, and everyone respects the hell out of him, but I dont think he could ever be The best again.

 

[shmeargle]

That's in the past guys. He's moved on to other things. He's given a lot to the marth community except no one can play as aggressive as he does except maybe mango. If he tries lol. But what I remember when Ken was around my cousins high school and I went to visit him everyone would be playing melée and getting wrecked by Ken lol.

 

[Bing]

Dart! has a very Aggressive style, a lot of Marth are Aggro... not just Mangos

 

[shmeargle]

Well mangos super aggro lol. But yeah but it's harder I think to be aggressive nowadays unless your smart.

 

[Bing]

To be effective while still being aggro, yes. To be just blind aggro, No.

I try to be Smart Aggro, but Im not quite there yet, and I still make lots of mistake, and not the smartest decisions

 

[EPsilon933]

I think being aggro depends on your opponent's reaction time. Them not being able to react to what you do helps

 

[Bing]

Yeah for sure. I mean if you can keep on them incredibly fast and not give them to figure a way to stop that, obviously you're in the clear! <--- Unless your Fox and Illusion off the stage trying waveshine.

 

[Archangel]

I'll put it this way. There aren't alot of people between 04-06 who I feel I couldn't beat at my current level. When I was playing in 04-06 there may be a handful of pro players that I might have beaten.

I don't really want to debate with anyone but I spent the last year or 2 of my life watching Marth's from around the planet. Most of them would be the best player in the world if you sent them back to 04. A good portion of them would then be able to reign from 04-06 as easily as Ken if not easier. Ken did alot of things before anyone else and he should be recognized for that. However...M2K was right. Alot of people were not good in those days. M2K included.

 

[itsbme]

It would be neat if he did come back, and we could see what would happen. But speculating is fun.

From what i've seen since coming back into being interested in this game again, there seems to be a higher quantity of quality players, which is cool to see. Like the above poster, I don't want to argue either or try to change anyones view either.

I saw a comment someone made about everyone being more intelligent. I agree with that, but not everyone's brains are created equal. Some people have a higher aptitude than others when it comes to things that involve of the use of non-verbal IQ, something that being good at video games requires. So although people have gotten better, you have to factor in that people can only get good to a point. You can't take your brain like you can a computer and throw a component in it and make its performance faster and better than before. Over time with deliberate practice, yes, your brain will make more connections and you'll make more associations, so when you're playing this game, you'll have more options since more of the game will be obvious to you compared to someone who didn't practice and break down the game. But how well your mind can do that will always remain the same. Some people will always have a higher capacity for thought than others, and they will be able to perform more efficiently than those that lack that capacity.

"Ken wasn't really that good. Everyone else just sucked" -Mew2King

Ken was really that good. Everyone else just wasn't as good.

 

[Archangel]

It would be neat if he did come back, and we could see what would happen. But speculating is fun.

From what i've seen since coming back into being interested in this game again, there seems to be a higher quantity of quality players, which is cool to see. Like the above poster, I don't want to argue either or try to change anyones view either.

I saw a comment someone made about everyone being more intelligent. I agree with that, but not everyone's brains are created equal. Some people have a higher aptitude than others when it comes to things that involve of the use of non-verbal IQ, something that being good at video games requires. So although people have gotten better, you have to factor in that people can only get good to a point. You can't take your brain like you can a computer and throw a component in it and make its performance faster and better than before. Over time with deliberate practice, yes, your brain will make more connections and you'll make more associations, so when you're playing this game, you'll have more options since more of the game will be obvious to you compared to someone who didn't practice and break down the game. But how well your mind can do that will always remain the same. Some people will always have a higher capacity for thought than others, and they will be able to perform more efficiently than those that lack that capacity.



Ken was really that good. Everyone else just wasn't as good.

Ken was asian but he wasn't really THAT smart. I mean you make it sound like we are talking about a nobel prize winner or something....

With that said he was smarter than the average person for sure. I've seen people as smart as him outclassed by people of average or below average intellect. The game revolved heavily around mental trickery and patience because there was little else that could be done. Just going back and watching Ken's defining tournament runs from 04-06...some of it is almost funny. I'm pretty sure someone like.....Kels for example would beat out ken in his prime. Ken's name is legendary so it's hard to imagine but....really most decent players of 2012 can do everything he could do. Still. would be nice to see him come back and give it another run. Others have done well. KDJ, Chillen, Azen have all returned but none of them with the same success as they once had being top 5 in the country at one point. I'm sure Ken would be as good as them or maybe even slightly better. Could be fun to see.

 

[itsbme]

Ken was asian but he wasn't really THAT smart. I mean you make it sound like we are talking about a nobel prize winner or something....

My intent is not to label Ken as someone who was a God among men! I just respect talent and skill, and I would be ignorant to not acknowledge his ability. You are right, he was not a nobel prize winner, or the equivalent of. But in my opinion, he was probably a lot better than people give him credit for now.

The only other comparable player that I can think of is Mango. He's aggressive, but he seems well rounded and his positioning is really amazing. Although the average player has gotten a lot better, and uses more advanced tactics, Mango shows in my opinion there's still a gap between players of his caliber, and those below him. I mean, look up most matches of his, and I know this says more about me than him, but I see him pretty much run most players into the ground. Exceptions are of course are players like Armada and a handful of others, but for the most part, the majority of other players do not do well, lol. I mean, it's not totally one sided, but the difference is notable.

Could be fun to see.

Indeed, indeed.

 

[Archangel]

My intent is not to label Ken as someone who was a God among men! I just respect talent and skill, and I would be ignorant to not acknowledge his ability. You are right, he was not a nobel prize winner, or the equivalent of. But in my opinion, he was probably a lot better than people give him credit for now.

The only other comparable player that I can think of is Mango. He's aggressive, but he seems well rounded and his positioning is really amazing. Although the average player has gotten a lot better, and uses more advanced tactics, Mango shows in my opinion there's still a gap between players of his caliber, and those below him. I mean, look up most matches of his, and I know this says more about me than him, but I see him pretty much run most players into the ground. Exceptions are of course are players like Armada and a handful of others, but for the most part, the majority of other players do not do well, lol. I mean, it's not totally one sided, but the difference is notable.


Indeed, indeed.

Alright I see where you are coming from and I agree. There will always be a gap between the very best and those trying to get to the top spots. The Caliber of competition nowadays is much stiffer. even in 06 there were only a handful of players that would be seen as good in todays time. Now there are like 200+ world-wide that are seen as good. 100 seen between pretty good, very good, and ****ing good. And then like 25 who range between ****ing good and great. With the top players from each region of the world scattered through it.

 

[Jackie]

I found this out tonight:

http://www.hoangiesfoodtruck.com/

Though I haven't eaten at his truck, Vietnamese sandwiches are way tastier than they sound when you describe them.

Interesting how he possibly used his Survivor winnings to start slinging sandwiches. Scrumptious sandwiches.

 

[Shadow Huan]

I found this out tonight:

http://www.hoangiesfoodtruck.com/

Though I haven't eaten at his truck, Vietnamese sandwiches are way tastier than they sound when you describe them.

Interesting how he possibly used his Survivor winnings to start slinging sandwiches. Scrumptious sandwiches.

''so good it's like a tipper to the taste buds''

 

[iffy525]

I found this out tonight:

http://www.hoangiesfoodtruck.com/

Though I haven't eaten at his truck, Vietnamese sandwiches are way tastier than they sound when you describe them.

Interesting how he possibly used his Survivor winnings to start slinging sandwiches. Scrumptious sandwiches.

How do you know it's Ken Hoang? Just wondering, I believe you.

 

[Wizzrobe]

I found this out tonight:

http://www.hoangiesfoodtruck.com/

Though I haven't eaten at his truck, Vietnamese sandwiches are way tastier than they sound when you describe them.

Interesting how he possibly used his Survivor winnings to start slinging sandwiches. Scrumptious sandwiches.

I want to eat Ken's sandwhiches.