Rebalancing/Redesigning Jigglypuff

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Mini-Redesign/Rebalance Threads

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Yet another redesign thread of mine. Probably will not do this for everyone in Ultimate cause I'm not a masochist, but I at least want to go over the more neglected characters in the series as a whole. And who better/worse than Jigglypuff, who has been on a crazy ride of crap for the last two entries.

Note that these will be sort of out there ideas, and that it will be a work in progress for a few days as I solidify each moves design and purpose in Jiggs' moveset.

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Like with all of my "rebalancing" exercises, I will showcase what I believe the character's purposes should be overall, as well as the strengths and weaknesses they should have.

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Jigglypuff :ultjigglypuff:

Purpose: Aerial fighter/Edgeguarder/Semi-grappler/Fragile

Strengths should be:

High aerial mobility and good aerial moves
Great recovery
Useful grab game
Higher than average priority

Weaknesses should be:

Very low weight
Low range
Low true combo game
Low ground game potential

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Also, let's go over some general statistics the puffball should have. Note that most of these are universal changes for all characters, but I will talk about relative changes towards Jigglypuff.

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General Statistics: :ultjigglypuff:

  • Low weight
    • (Note that weight difference should be much tighter overall, so Jigglypuff will definitely get a weight buff)
  • Low walk speed
  • Low run speed
    • (Walk speed and run speed would be more compacted for the slowest and fastest characters. With this in mind, Jigglypuff would have faster movement than even what is shown in Ultimate so far)
  • Very high horizontal airspeed
  • Standardized first jump
    • (All first jumps for all characters will be the same height: around 80% the height of the top platform in Battlefield)
  • Slightly below average double jump height
    • (Baseline for double jump will be lower than it is now, but varied between characters: Jigglypuff's new jump height would be about 90% of her current double jump height in Smash 4)
  • Multiple double jumps
  • Slow fall speed
    • (Fall speed across the board should be increased, so Jigglypuff's would too)
  • Wall Jump (All characters will be able to wall jump, but not all can wall cling)
  • Low roll distance
    • (All characters will have the same frame data on rolls, with the only real variance between them being distance)
  • Average shield health
    • (Shield health would now differ between characters, with the baseline being 100 shield health. Jigglypuff's would have 100)
  • No special shield break
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So overall, Jigglypuff gets the same traits as in Smash 4, but with a few added benefits. First off, and I think this needs to be said now, she will no longer KO herself on shield break. I found this mechanic absolutely annoying and is probably one reason why she's been hard to balance. I was sad to see it back in Ultimate, because it's such a binary thing. If you get your shield broken, you are guaranteed to die, whereas other characters won't always die. What is the point other than the little "Balloon Pokemon" motif? I'd rather it be taken out, because binary traits like that should be avoided. I'm sure this will upset no one.

Next is the ability to wall jump. It probably won't be very far, but it will still be possible, which is the point of giving it to everyone. Just another way to move around. Why not?

Next up is universal frame data on rolls (and other dodges). Now Jigglypuff's roll will only be bad in terms of distance, which is alright, since the intangibility would be the same throughout, meaning if a move is meant to be countered by a roll, she can counter it with roll. She also gets the standard first jump height buff I came up with, which means she will get even more vertical reach. But not too much change on the other jumps, even despite the universal nerf to those.

Now to her moves...

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:GCA::GCA:Jab:

  • Quick one two punch combo. Can cancel Jab 1 into a jump
    • Cannot cancel Jab 2 into jump
    • Jab 1 and 2 will not link into each other
  • Unsafe on shield for Jab 1
    • Barely safe on shield for Jab 2
  • Very low shield damage
  • Knockback on Jab 1 is at the Sakurai angle
    • Knockback on Jab 2 is sideways at 20 degrees
  • Base knockback on Jab 2 is very low to encourage advantage
  • Very low startup on both jabs
  • Slightly below average endlag on Jab 1
    • Low endlag on Jab 2
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Jab 1: 2.3%
    • Jab 2: 7.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Jab 2: 900%

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First move and we already have something involving Jigglypuff's air game. I think a cool interaction for this move would be to allow for Jigglypuff to quickly jab once and be able to jump to gain more options in the air. Alternatively, she could just jab twice. However, the second jab would not link into the first, giving the opponent a choice of maybe retaliating if they guess Jiggs will jump instead of punch again. However, the second jab will cause much more damage than the first and allow for some spacing and maybe a few air moves for a combo at low percents. The point is that this attack will allow for some mindgame potential, especially for a character with few true combos.

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:GCA::GCR:FTilt:

  • A spinning roundhouse kick. Can be angled up and down
  • Very fast startup
  • High priority
  • Higher range for Jigglypuff
  • Average endlag
  • Below average shield damage
  • Barely unsafe on shield
  • Knockback is at the Sakurai angle
  • Low knockback growth
  • Above average base knockback for spacing
  • Approximate damage numbers: 9.1%
  • Approximate kill time: 350%

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Pretty uninteresting move for Jiggs. Is only barely unsafe on shield, meaning no real shield pressure but if the Jigglypuff player decides to retreat with a jump or something, the enemy wouldn't be able to catch them either. The base knockback is slightly higher than it is currently to signify that this is a niche spacing tool and is at the Sakurai angle, meaning it can potentially trip, or create a potential combo if done to an aerial opponent, though again, just barely.

Not much else to talk about other than a spacing tool on a low range character. Technically bad, but can do some potential things if you need. It also has very high priority, fitting with Jiggs' strength, and it makes up fro its low range by being nearly uncontestable against lower priority characters with higher range like Marth, Shulk, or Sheik.

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:GCA::GCU:UTilt:

  • A backwards scorpion kick. Has two late hitboxes, first one when its foot is pointing up, and second when it is putting its foot down
    • Only attacks behind Jigglypuff, giving it a frontal blind spot
  • Very high priority
  • Fast startup
  • Average endlag
  • Unsafe on shield for all hitboxes
  • Low shield damage
  • Base knockback is slightly high
  • Knockback growth is above average
  • Knockback on early and first late hitbox is upwards at 85 degrees
    • Knockback on second late hitbox is backwards at the Sakurai angle
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Early hitbox: 10.0%
    • Upwards foot late hitbox: 8.7%
    • Foot lowering late hitbox: 7.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Early hitbox: 140%
    • Upwards foot late hitbox: 150%
    • Foot lowering late hitbox: 180%

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The tilt that is unsafe on shield, yet has quite a knockback. The reason this one has special treatment is because it will pop the enemy into the place Jiggs shines, so it needs to have a few more drawbacks than the others. A new idea is the Sakurai angled late hitbox, which could potentially be taken advantage of by both parties. However, it's more a penalty than anything. Though this move does make up for its lackluster shield ability by possessing the most damage out of the tilts, as well as potential kill power.

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:GCA::GCD:DTilt:

  • Crouching shin kick towards the ground
  • Safe on shield
  • Very low shield damage
  • High priority
  • Average endlag
  • Fast startup
  • Knockback is sideways at 35 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers: 7.6%
  • Approximate kill time: 700%

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Like FTilt, this move is more for a quick jab at a shield in safety. Unlike FTilt, it has some upsides and downsides. Upsides first; This move is safer on shield, meaning you can actually follow up on things like Pound. It also would have a much better angle for comboing, as well as much less knockback growth and base knockback, making it a useful tool throughout the match.

The downsides are the lower range, very slightly higher startup, lower shield damage, and the inability to trip at all, as well as slightly lower damage. However, this will still be a nice tool for Jiggs' lackluster ground game I think, it only for the safety on shield.

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:GCR::GCR::GCA:Dash Attack:

  • A full charge headbutt. Has a late hitbox. Destroys projectiles throughout the move.
    • (Projectile destruction is a universal aspect of all dash attacks)
  • Very fast startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Unsafe on shield for early hitbox
    • Barely safe on shield for late hitbox
  • Above average shield damage
  • Knockback is upwards at 50 degrees for both hitboxes
  • High priority
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Early hitbox: 13.5%
    • Late hitbox: 10.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Early hitbox: 130%
    • Late hitbox: 185%

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First off, the projectile destruction is an idea to make sure every character universally has a way to get into close range, and Jigglypuff is no different. In fact, she would probably need it quite a bit. But besides that, this Dash Attack is bad on shield for the much stronger potentially killing early hitbox, but is just barely safe on the later hitbox, making it a good approaching move, but not so strong as to give Jiggs a complete advantage. It also deals decent damage. But while this move is strong, Jiggs' low ground movement would limit its full potential, which is fine. For a character with a "bad ground game" a very fast, projectile destroying, potential kill move is still quite handy to have.

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:GCCR:FSmash:

  • Far reaching thrust kick. Has a late hitbox.
  • High range for Jigglypuff
  • Above average startup
  • High endlag
  • High priority
  • Very high shield damage on early hitbox
    • High shield damage on late hitbox
  • Very unsafe on shield
  • Knockback is sideways at 40 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Early hitbox: 15.0%-21.0%
    • Late hitbox: 13.0%-18.2%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Early hitbox: 105%-85%
    • Late hitbox: 135%-110%
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Jigglypuff's most powerful smash, and the most unsafe. It has pretty high startup, high endlag, super unsafe on shield, etc, adding to Jiggs bad ground game. However, it does kill quite early compared to Jigglypuff's other moves, and if it hits, it can create good edgeguarding situations even at low percents. It also has higher priority than most other moves despite its actually repsectable range, so while the downsides are very notable, in terms of Jigglypuff's kit, it still gives her some good relative tools.

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:GCCU: USmash:

  • New move: Twirls iconic marker/microphone in the air above it's head, hitting 6 times in quick succession
    • Hitbox is only above Jigglypuff, giving it a wide blindspot on both sides of it
    • Disjointed hitbox
  • Above average range for Jigglypuff
  • Below average shield damage
  • Unsafe on shield
  • Average startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Knockback is exactly upwards at 90 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Multihit: 1.5%-2.1% * 5
    • Final hit: 5.0%-7.0%
    • Total: 12.5%-17.5%
  • Approximate kill time: 135%-105%

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A new, more appropriate move. Still not the greatest move though, since it has huge blind spots on the sides of Jigglypuff despite being a multihit move that locks her in place for a bit. However, it is Jiggs' only true disjoint, giving it a small amount of range and power compared to Jiggs' other moves. It also kills in a respectable percent, making it actually okay for catching falling opponents.

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:GCCD:DSmash:

  • A spinning split kick. Feet are intangible during the hitbox
  • Slightly above average range for Jigglypuff
  • Below average priority
  • Knockback is a semi-spike at 345 degrees
  • Low shield damage
  • Unsafe on shield
  • Will knock back enemies on shield
  • Average startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Approximate damage numbers: 11.0%-15.4%
  • Approximate kill time: 150%-120%

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Jigglypuff's infamous semi-spike. I wouldn't trade this for anything. I don't think I need to say why a semi-spike on a fighter who is centered around aerials is a good thing. However, it has low damage and kill power for a smash attack, and is unsafe on shield, though it does knockback, making it a bit more safe than it seems. Overall, not too complicated. It does allow for intangibility on the hitbox so... that's something special.

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:GCX:All Aerials:

  • Can now concurrently use Jigglypuff's double jumps while within an aerial move's animation

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This is such a big deal that it deserves its own section. Basically, during any of Jiggs' aerials or specials started in the air, you can jump while in the middle of the move. And remember, this includes backwards with FAir or up with DAir. I think this would be a major thing, and should probably be treated sort of like Bayonetta's traits like Bat Within. It would also solidify Jigglypuff as the queen of aerial mobility and control. Now let's get to her aerials with this trait in mind.

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:GCX::GCA:NAir:

  • A small sex kick forward. Has an early and late hitbox, with the early hitbox also on Jigglypuff's body
  • Deals low shield damage
  • Barely safe on shield
  • High priority
  • Long hitbox duration
  • Low range
  • Very low startup
  • Low endlag
  • Low landing lag
  • Knockback for early hitbox is upwards at 60 degrees
    • Knockback for late hitbox is at the Sakurai angle
  • Low base knockback and knockback growth for strings
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Early hitbox: 7.2%
    • Late hitbox: 5.3%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Early hitbox: 600%
    • Late hitbox: 800%

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The usual sex kick. Nothing else really needs to be said about it. It's slightly weaker than Smash 4 in terms of damage, but considering the fact you can jump during the long animation makes it an even crazier neutral tool for both landing on the ground and in the air.

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:GCX::GCR::GCA:FAir:

  • Forward dropkick. Has an early and late hitbox
  • Slight lingering hitbox
  • Slight range compared to other aerials
  • Low startup
  • Below average endlag
  • Average landing lag
  • Low shield damage
  • Very high priority
  • Knockback is at the Sakurai angle
  • Unsafe on shield if landing, safe if not
  • Very low knockback
  • Low hitstun when hitting aerial opponents
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Early hitbox: 9.5%
    • Late hitbox: 7.5%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Early hitbox: 170%
    • Late hitbox: 200%

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I wanted this to not just be a carbon copy of NAir, so it has a few differences. Firstly, it is not safe on shield when landing due to slightly high landing lag, but it's fine when you don't land, making it much more skill based with the new concurrent jump trait. Next, it can kill much earlier than NAir, but has pretty low base knockback, allowing for Wall of Pain just fine. However, it has less hitstun in the air by a slight amount, going back to Jiggs weakness of not having much true combo game. Due to this, trickery of the opponent is necessary, but with the new jump trait, you can potentially hit the opponent with this move, and while it is in its endlag, crossup behind them in the air before they can react.

Overall, this move is meant to be used for spacing due to its higher range and priority, while also being used in conjunction with the new concurrent jump mechanic to create good aerial punish mindgames.

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:GCX::GCL::GCA:BAir:

  • Spinning back kick. Has a sweetspot on the tip of the foot and sourspot close to the body
  • Average startup
  • Average endlag
  • Below average landing lag
  • Slightly more range compared to other aerials
  • Barely unsafe on shield
  • Knockback on sweetspot is at the Sakurai angle
    • Knockback on sourspot is sideways at 40 degrees
  • Average shield damage
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Sweetspot: 11.8%
    • Sourspot: 5.3%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Sweetspot: 130%
    • Sourspot: 250%

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Jiggs designated kill move for the air. Still below average compared to her others, but this can easily be used for edgeguarding, so yeah.

Biggest change is the inclusion of a sourspot that pops even grounded targets a bit to the side. This makes this move both a comboing move, as well as a kill move. However, the sourspot has MUCH less damage than the sweetspot, and NAir is overall the safer move, so this sourspot is used mostly for the air, rather than starting a combo.

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:GCX::GCU::GCA:UAir:

  • Overhead arcing swipe
  • Long lingering hitbox
  • Below average landing lag
  • Below average startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Knockback is upwards at 95 degrees
  • Unsafe on shield
  • No shield damage
  • Very high priority
  • Approximate damage numbers: 8.6%
  • Approximate kill time: 190%

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I wanted this to be the ultimate sharking tool, especially for a god tier aerial fighter like Jiggs, so I would definitely increase the hitbox time by quite a bit. It also wouldn't decrease in strength throughout, just like how it is in Smash 4. However, it would be less spammable than it is now, and would be completely unsafe on shield to differentiate it from NAir as a landing option. However, if you do manage to hit a grounded opponent, this will be able to follow up quite well due to low landing lag. It also has more priority than Jiggs usually has, making trading with it hard, especially if she follows your trajectory upwards with the new concurrent jump mechanic. Even disjoint based fighters need to fear the ladder potential of this move.

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:GCX::GCD::GCA:DAir:

  • Diagonal downward drill kick. Multihit portion will lock opponents to Jiggs trajectory for the duration
  • Slightly above average shield damage
  • Barely unsafe on shield when landing, barely safe when not landing
  • Low landing lag
  • Above average startup
  • Average endlag
  • Knockback on final hit is upwards at 70 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Multihit: 1.6% * 8
    • Final hit: 2.7%
    • Total: 11.5%
  • Approximate kill times: 160%

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Last aerial, and it's WOW, another lingering hitbox aerial, which means it can be used with the concurrent jump mechanic to great effect. WOW. It's almost like I planned that mechanic to work with Jiggs' current aerials. :p

But in all seriousness, this move differentiates itself from the others in that it's actually really good as a shield chipper. It also deals quite a bit of damage and will drag opponents with Jigglypuff, including sideways, making it potentially a crazy kill option to the side, or just a way to keep the string going. However, it is only barely safe when landing on shield, meaning you will technically be able to shield any retaliatory hits, quicker moves might still get you, so this is still situational. Even so, I think a guaranteed autolock of the opponent is more than enough of a useful tool for Jiggs.

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:GCB::GCB::GCB:Neutral-B:

  • Remapped move with new sequence: Sing: Creates lingering sound waves centered around Jigglypuff that cause the sleep status to nearby enemies. Can do this up to three times with consecutive button presses, with the sound wave radius increasing each time.
    • Is treated as a melee grab, meaning enemies that are attacking will not be affected and affects shielded enemies
      • Will always outprioritize other melee grabs
    • Can sleep airborne enemies for 75% of the usual time
      • (Airborne sleep causes the victim to experience 30% of their gravity for the duration)
    • Sleep can be button mashed out of prematurely
      • Button mashing takes longer the more damage the enemy has
    • (Sleep is considered to be hitstun)
    • (Sleep now causes the wake up hit to deal 50% more damage but 35% less knockback and hitstun)
  • Above average startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Approximate sleep time:
    • First wave: 2 seconds
      • Duration added with damage: 0.05 seconds per 1%
    • Second wave: 2.5 seconds
      • Duration added with damage: 0.06 seconds per 1%
    • Third wave: 3 seconds
      • Duration added with damage: 0.07 seconds per 1%
    • Every successive wave on sleeping enemy: 0.5 seconds
      • (This means if you sleep someone at 0% with the first sound wave, hitting them with the second one immediately will make the total duration 2.5 seconds)

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Okay, another one of my complicated ideas. Hear me out.

The biggest change to Sing is the fact you won't be forced into all three hitboxes, and can now do them separately. This is a huge amount of versatility already because you can choose if you want to commit to the stronger sound waves or just use the first for a quick sleep. The second biggest is the ability to sleep shielded opponents, because I would consider this a grab of sorts. Lastly, it can now sleep airborne opponents, giving it some use in Jiggs home turf... above the turf. :p

However, this comes with some caveats, and involves a lot of numbers. Far more than I usually commit to. I keep most of these sort of traits in each move's section vague in order to convey a basic idea, but the amount of strange numbers here conveys a different sort of idea: that this move could potentially be SOOOO broken without the few things holding it back that I would remove. SO let's go through the list of weird decimals and percents shall we?

Firstly, airborne enemies that are slept are in 30% of their gravity and sort of "float" downwards. This makes them not so vulnerable to just dropping to the blast zone if slept off the edge. They also get 25% of the sleep duration shaved off for the same reason. Not too little to be negligible, but not too much to make sleeping airborne opponents worthless.

Next up, there's the increased damage and decreased hitstun and knockback when hitting the sleeping enemy. This is to make sure that there's more of an incentive to try for a big hit, but not enough to kill, but also enough to get maybe an edgeguard going.

Next is the fact sleep is considered hitstun. This is only for the new way Rest works, which you will see in a bit. Unless you were here early on where I did Rest before I did this move, then you already know why.

Last are the sleep times in general. I wanted slight incentive to continue the song even if the first sound wave hit them, so it will lengthen the time, which also means the enemy needs to button mash a tiny bit more to escape. And let's not forget to mention the synergy this has with the concurrent jump mechanic, so you can move this sound wave of sleep around quite a bit to hit opponents that think you are going for an attack.

Overall, treat this as a sort of "midair grab" that gives a lot of damage. Definitely works with Jigglypuff's moveset.

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:GCL::GCB::GCR:Side-B:

  • Pound: A quick punch with a forward step. Will remove most of Jigglypuff's momentum when used.
    • Can be slightly angled up and down at a discrepancy of 45 degrees in both directions
  • Has a long hitbox
  • Very high shield damage
  • Slightly unsafe on shield
  • Above average startup
  • Low endlag
  • Knockback is upwards at 75 degrees
  • Base knockback is slightly high
  • Approximate damage numbers: 11.0%
  • Approximate kill time: 200%

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The simplest of special moves. Not much to be said about it other than its long lasting hitbox will be very useful in the air due to the concurrent jumps allowing for Jiggs to approach with the high shield damage. This is compensated with higher startup and being slightly unsafe on shield, meaning it can't be spammed.

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:GCB::GCU:Up-B:

  • New move: Gyro Ball: Creates a metallic sheen and metallic aura around Jigglypuff. Will retain the momentum Jigglypuff had at the moment of activation and will cause it to fly off in that direction and momentum for the duration of the charge. Anything hitting Jigglypuff or the small aura will take damage depending on how fast the enemy was going compared to Jigglypuff. Hitting Up-B again will cause Jigglypuff to launch itself upwards, dealing multiple hits of damage based on how fast Jigglypuff was going at the time of launch.
    • Gyro Ball aura lasts for 1.5 seconds maximum
    • Gyro Ball launch can be angled with a discrepancy of 30 degrees in both directions
    • While Gyro Ball aura is active, Jigglypuff can only jump and cannot attack with anything but the launch
  • Near instant startup
    • Launch has low startup
  • Below average endlag
    • Launch has high endlag
  • Transcendent priority for both aura and launch
  • No shield damage on aura
    • High shield damage for launch
  • Knockback on aura is low at 20 degrees
    • Knockback on launch is high at 70 degrees
  • Base knockback on aura is low
    • Base knockback on launch is average
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Base Aura damage: 1.0%
    • Aura movement difference damage: 0.4% per 1 m/s difference
    • Base launch damage: 1.0% * 7
    • Launch movement difference damage: 0.5% per 1 m/s difference
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Aura: 999%
    • Launch: 180%-140%

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I wanted something to replace Rollout with, and I chose another move Jigglypuff naturally learns: Gyro Ball! This takes some explanation, like Sing.

I'm sure the first thing you will ask is what is up with the way damage is done. If you know Pokemon, Gyro Ball does more damage if the opponent is faster than the Pokemon using it. I wanted to emulate that here by having the damage scale up the stiller Jigglypuff is while both on the ground and in the air. However, note that when you start the move, whatever momentum Jiggs had at the start carries on, meaning to use this move at full potential involves staying still or at the very least being slow. Note that Jiggs would have super slow ground movement, making this an actually very good approaching and anti approaching tool in some respects.

However, you can also jump while using it in midair or on the ground, speeding up your momentum at the cost of damage and knockback. And if you wish to, you can launch Jiggs upwards, making this an okay recovery move for a character that was not lacking in that department. However, the catch with that isn't just the high endlag (though it doesn't cause freefall, luckily) and that's the fact that if you really want to recover with this move, you most likely have to move a lot, removing a lot of its power. Likewise for hitting the aura part while in a combo for example. Since you will be moving a lot to get those combo and string chases, Gyro Ball will be a lot worse, balancing its potentially ridiculous damage output by virtue of how comboing works.

So what is this move going to be used for compared to Rollout? Well, it can definitely be used as a vertical recovery, something Jiggs hasn't had, but it can also act as a tricky edgeguarding tool and gimping tool, since you can easily control your jump's momentum to start it, as well as a niche approach and anti-approach tool on the ground due to Jigglypuff's super slow movement on the ground compared to the rest of the cast.

I will admit that this is one of my most out there ideas EVER, but in theory this shouldn't really be much more than a nice tool for Jigglypuff's good playstyle in the air, as well as a way to shore her weaknesses on the ground, if only barely. Definitely super out there, but I just REALLY dislike Rollout lol.

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:GCB::GCD:Down-B:

  • Rest: Quickly causes any enemy touching Jigglypuff to launch very far, also causing damage over time. Jigglypuff will be disabled for a bit of time while also healing itself
    • Launch will be weakened if hitting an enemy that is in hitstun
    • Disable after hitbox lasts for 2.5 seconds
    • Damage over time cannot be stopped by button mashing
  • Knockback angle is exactly upwards at 90 degrees
  • Slows down falling speed
  • Deals no shield damage
  • Extremely low startup
  • Damage over time lasts 6 seconds
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Main hit: 25.0%
    • Damage over time: 1.2% per 0.5 seconds
    • Total: 37.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • With hitstun: 120%
    • Without hitstun: 60%
  • Approximate heal numbers:
    • 1.2% per 0.5 seconds
    • Total: 6.0%

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Oh man I'm gonna get a lot of flak for this one. So Rest having a weaker hit on opponents in hitstun is to make sure Rest combos are fair. While this ruins a bunch of early kill times on Jigglypuff, it's for a reason. I believe that Jigglypuff is also hard to balance due to Rest. The developers always have to be careful of such a powerful move comboing too easily, so they have to make the rest of Jigglypuff's moveset suffer to accomodate. With this change, Rest would be designated as more of a devastating out of shield option and response against bigger moves that Jigglypuff dodges.

But to the additions and good stuff, it can now heal her and has guaranteed damage over time, making it still a good tool for damage as well as a quick heal. And I say quick because Jigglypuff's inactivity would be cut in half. In addition, her fall speed would slow down by quite a bit. These two changes would make Rest much safer to use in midair, and be preferable, at least sometimes.

I really hope I don't get too much hate for this. :scared:

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:GCZ:Grab and Pummel:

  • Very low range melee grab
  • Fast standardized grab frame data
    • (There would be three standardized frame data "rankings" for melee grabs)
      • (Fast: 6 frame standing grab, 8 frame dash grab, 9 frame pivot grab)
      • (Average: 9 frame standing grab, 11 frame dash grab, 12 frame pivot grab)
      • (Slow: 12 frame standing grab, 14 frame dash grab, 15 frame pivot grab)
  • New move: Pummel now gives a damage over time debuff in the form of the Lip Stick flower
    • Damage over time can be removed prematurely by button mashing
    • Maximum damage over time duration: 7 seconds
  • Approximate pummel damage: 0.4% per 0.5 seconds
    • Maximum default pummel damage: 5.6%
    • Successive pummels will increase damage over time by 50% and reset the duration
      • Successive pummel additional damage: 0.2% per 0.5 seconds
  • Approximate pummel speed: 0.8 seconds

-------------------------------

Remember how one of Jigglypuff's strengths is scary grabs? Well here's why. I think this idea for a damage over time based pummel is honestly genius on my part, and I rarely compliment myself lol.

Hear me out. First off, we have my standardized grab frame data system, at least for melee grabs. Jigglypuff would be in the category of fast grabs. This is to offset her very low grab range compared to bigger characters, but then again, I was planning for other short range characters to only have average grabs, like Kirby, Sheik, and Wii Fit Trainer (when I get to them). So why does Jiggs get special treatment? Because she's supposed to be a semi-grappler.

Now for the genius part. First off, the damage over time duration is quite long and by default it will potentially deal FAR more damage than any other pummel, especially at later percents when the enemy will probably take at least three pummels before being thrown, making it already a fantastic damage tool. However, unlike the damage over time of Rest that is unavoidable, this damage over time can be avoided if the enemy button mashes, which leads into so many baiting options for Jigglypuff to work with, and puts the enemy in a horrible dilemma of whether to let the damage over time run its course, or use a move that could potentially be countered by the Jigglypuff.

Pretty good idea right? :D

-------------------------------

:GCZ::GCR:FThrow:

  • Quickly throws the enemy up and puffs up very quickly to push them away.
  • Low endlag
  • Slightly below average base knockback and knockback growth
  • Knockback is upwards at 55 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • First hit: 5.5%
    • Second hit: 6.0%
    • Total: 11.5%

-------------------------------

The edgeguarding throw, this is pretty much only for stage control, but it has a damage buff to compensate. Not much else to it really.

-------------------------------

:GCZ::GCL:BThrow:

  • Quick backwards suplex. Will cause Jigglypuff to pop into the air at short hop height when releasing the enemy
    • This hop does not count as a multijump, and still allows the use of Jigglypuff's first jump afterwards
  • No endlag due to hop afterwards
  • Knockback is sideways at 40 degrees
  • Average base knockback to encourage chasing in the air for combos
  • Approximate damage numbers: 2.8%
  • Approximate kill time: 235%

-------------------------------

This is Jiggs' combo throw, and it works a bit differently. Fitting with her aerial fighter nature, she will be given a free hop independent of any of her jumps in order to followup on the enemy. Of course this comes at a huge hit in damage, but remember you can get the pummel damage over time to accommodate anyway.

-------------------------------

:GCZ::GCU:UThrow:

  • Twirls and throws the opponent upwards in a trail of stars
  • High base knockback and almost no knockback growth
  • Knockback is exactly upwards at 90 degrees
  • Very low hitstun
  • Average endlag
  • Approximate damage numbers: 8.4%
  • Approximate kill time: 500%

-------------------------------

This is Jigglypuff's usual tool to get back to what she does best, which is sharking with UAir or simply messing with the opponent. It has a set knockback that is quite high and can potentially kill on high platforms. The hitstun is super low in order to give the opponent more time to attack to get rid of the potential pummel damage over time, but the endlag is low enough that they can't actually followup on Jigglypuff.

-------------------------------

:GCZ::GCD:DThrow:

  • Rolls around onto the enemy's back a few times, then launches them upwards.
    • Duration of rolling would be around 2 seconds
  • High endlag
  • Average base knockback
  • Above average knockback growth
  • Knockback would be upwards at 45 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Rolling hits: 1.0% * 4
    • Final hit: 2.0%
    • Total: 6.0%
  • Approximate kill time: 165%

-------------------------------

A sort of kill throw, which is uncommon for down throws. The cool thing about this is that it works directly with the new pummel by guaranteeing at least 2 seconds of damage over time from it, making it a good damage racker as well. However, its high endlag and not so low base knockback means it won't be a combo throw.

-------------------------------

FINALLY DONE. MY GOD THIS RACKED ON MY BRAIN. I wanted to find a way to make Jigglypuff's ground game less than stellar without making them useless and I hope I delivered, but it's not easy, let me tell you. >_<
 
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Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
558
#3
Can't wait for the other moves to come, keep this up!
OMG! My first reply on any of these threads! :D

I'm glad you like it so far. I was honestly expecting a much worse reception lol. Was gonna do the other four aerials tonight now that I'm home. How do you feel about the Rest changes, btw?
 

Bayopuff

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
109
Location
Caldas Da Rainha, Portugal
#4
OMG! My first reply on any of these threads! :D

I'm glad you like it so far. I was honestly expecting a much worse reception lol. Was gonna do the other four aerials tonight now that I'm home. How do you feel about the Rest changes, btw?
Yeah, about that... I wouldn't be mad if it happened, as LONG as they shorten the Puff's "sleep time" after the attack, allowing for better combos at low percents.
 
Joined
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Messages
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#5
Yeah, about that... I wouldn't be mad if it happened, as LONG as they shorten the Puff's "sleep time" after the attack, allowing for better combos at low percents.
Well cool, cause I actually would lower the sleep time by 50% down to 2.5 seconds. So it would definitely still be useful as a combo ender if you really wanted, especially considering it's a guaranteed 37% damage. It just wouldn't be good at early KO's, but that was the only thing I wanted to take away honestly.

Don't worry, cause I have a super cool idea for how to make Sing not a complete joke of a move lol. Might still be niche, but the usable kind. :p
 

Bayopuff

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
109
Location
Caldas Da Rainha, Portugal
#6
Well cool, cause I actually would lower the sleep time by 50% down to 2.5 seconds. So it would definitely still be useful as a combo ender if you really wanted, especially considering it's a guaranteed 37% damage. It just wouldn't be good at early KO's, but that was the only thing I wanted to take away honestly.

Don't worry, cause I have a super cool idea for how to make Sing not a complete joke of a move lol. Might still be niche, but the usable kind. :p
I've actually managed to use Sing for some good combos! Well, it was against CPU's so I don't know if it's usable in competitive play...
 
Last edited:
Joined
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Location
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3DS FC
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NNID
BGenius23
#8
That jab sounds pretty terrible. I would just axe the two slaps altogether and maybe give her a jab where she pokes you with her marker or something.

It’d be pretty funny if she used her marker for some of her grounded attacks to make her like a ghetto sword character.
 

MalachitJR

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
71
Switch FC
SW-2092-6451-4829
#9
Really good analysis like the other ones! My only problem with jiggles is her lag on almost all her moves. I think on her trailer they may have made them shorter.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
558
#10
Really good analysis like the other ones! My only problem with jiggles is her lag on almost all her moves. I think on her trailer they may have made them shorter.
Thanks! But it was less an analysis and more "what I would do to design/balance this character". I think most of Jigglypuff's lag here is on her ground moves, but her aerials are pretty tame, plus you still have the ability to jump during an aerial, so even if they had high landing lag, you actually don't have to land and can easily control when you do.

EDIT: MalachitJR MalachitJR Did you see my Pichu redesign/rebalance thread? I gave him completely new special moves and a bunch of slightly new moves to differentiate him from Pikachu, all without removing the self damage gimmick. Considering how much you like Pichu, I would think you would like that one. :3

That jab sounds pretty terrible. I would just axe the two slaps altogether and maybe give her a jab where she pokes you with her marker or something.

It’d be pretty funny if she used her marker for some of her grounded attacks to make her like a ghetto sword character.
Didn't see your reply at first. What makes you say the jab sounds bad? I don't really see a problem with it. Functionally, you have the first Jab that is unsafe on shield but allows for jumping to cancel the endlag, or you continue the one two and have a safe on shield option, but it doesn't link properly, meaning the upsides and downsides of both hits keep it as a small mindgame tool for Jiggs. Or are you only talking about aesthetic?
 
Last edited:

Luigifan18

Smash Master
Premium
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
3,127
Switch FC
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#11
I love what you've done with Jigglypuff's moveset. The splitting of Sing so it's not mandatory to go through the entire thing is an excellent idea, and replacing Rollout with Gyro Ball and turning it into an actual recovery is a much-needed improvement.
 
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