Re: All stars thread and Critique Topic

[Bedi Vegeta]

So I've gotten a few PMs about what I've been saying in the All Stars thread, so I thought I would give everybody a chance to find out what's going on and discuss it a little bit.

Essentially, I have asked that the guys in the All Stars thread start to move their non-sig-shop related sig making discussion and critiquing to the Official Critique Topic, and try to treat the All Stars thread as a sig shop only.

The reason for this is not because I'm a big meany (though I try :embarrass), but because I would like them to include the whole art community in their discussions, and would like to improve the level of discussion and critique in the Official Critique Topic. This also keeps it all organised in one thread, which makes it easy for everybody to go to and give and recieve comments on their sigs.

A couple of people have commented about the critique topic not being as good as the All stars topic for criticism, or being too harsh, and I would like to change this. The first thing is if you all all start posting there and offering help more like you did in the other thread, and leading by example, the quality of discussion should rise automatically.

Obviously the onus will be on everybody to concentrate on increasing the quality of their posts, cutting down on unnecessary one-liners and overly harsh or dismissive criticism, but at the same time increasing the general sig making discussion and helping each other out.

To help this happen, I am considering possibly archiving the old/current Critique Topic and creating a new thread to give us a fresh start, to change things up a bit and improve it. The topic would become more of a sig making community (and exclusive to sig making and other similar digital media - makers of other art mediums would be free to post their stuff in their own topics in the rest of the room), rather than the very formulaic "comment->score->post your own work" and dry place that it has become.

While members would be encouraged to use the topic for general sig-making discussion, this isn't an invitation for chit-chat, and I would be monitoring the room and encouraging you all to promote decent critiquing and discussion.

So, who's up for it?

 

[Conker315]

Fdv i think its a great idea.With u monitoring this thread we would have balance and no spam or chit-chat what so ever.This would also lead to new artwork..as u said "banners" we dont see many of them on the critique topic and i would like to see some.I have no complaints into what you are making here and so you have my full appeal.

 

[Bedi Vegeta]

Sorry, by banners I meant sigs, I'm not sure if that changes what you mean or anything.

 

[smaci92]

Fdv. I'm totally up for it!! this was a great idea...wow, i didn't expect that our all star's sig house would cause such a big thing...but whatever

 

[BlackKnight23]

I think it's an awesome idea because honestly i get more help with my own shop than i do in the crit. board so this will help alot So i say yes

 

[Black Waltz]

As long as you're modding, I'm cool with it. Keep being strict, I like it.

 

[Bedi Vegeta]

Oh you would.

 

[plural]

You see, i think that when people post some of the sigs that they post in the All Star shop in the critique topic, they usually get brutally attacked, usually resulting in nothing useful but saying "read some tuts and dont show that kind of stuff around here. you don't have to show everything you make"

 

[A_man13]

Honestly I'd rather have a hyper strict mod than one that is passive.

More on topic, I have to agree about the Critique topic. Especially of late, people have been focusing on what ruins a signature, resulting in a less positive atmasphere of the topic. I find that people don't need to learn every single error in their work (discuraging begining sig makers). Not only that, but the better sig makers have gone down due to how the atmosphere of the topic. If better sig makers left the site, there really is a smaller pool of more benificial critique. Critiques should be:

-an honest evaluation of the sig
-What the person did right
-Mentioning the weak points and what can be done to fix it

If we can get a little bit better on positive and beneficial feedback, the topic will be much better and people will get better at a faster rate.

 

[Agi]

As a dedicated roadie of the all star's house o sigs,

It's going to be a little bit hard to transition over to the critique thread for me, (but, because of the chatroom that rollerking made, we will still be able to have our general discussion... which is pretty much what the thread had turned into between sig requests.) All it's going to take is to remember to click over to the critique thread. (I'm starting to learn to make sigs myself, which is why, at this time, I would be using the house o sigs A LOT.)

But I'm sure that we all will learn to transition, and the veterans of the shop can share their expertise with other students of this art. Thanks, FDV.

Spoiler

To everyone in the shop: Boy, it's a good thing Rollerking made the chatroom before he left to go to canada...

 

[Zolga Owns]

As a recent animation maker and ex roadie of the all star house of sigs critique is important to me.

Tbh my sigs suck so i stick to animation but i still need critique i dont post animations there because things get shot down with "get off the thread come back when ur good" etc.

Anyway what im trying to say is that negativity about your art/gfx/animation is found more on the critique thread. Thats why alot of us like getting critique within our own mini "community".


im for up for your idea of making a new critique thread and getting a fresh start.

EDIT: I deactivated my sig as theres no point in it being here

 

[Takumaru]

I know I do this but i'd really like people to stop saying "go read tuts". OBVIOUSLY not everyone knows where to look for tutorials or even what they need to improve on. Do you know how hard it was as a new GFX/tag maker to find an explanation for something like composition or flow?

If you make a new topic, FDV, honestly the more experienced guys will need to step up and actualy help. Not everyone understands GFX jargon and many people don't keep that in mind. Critique needs to be something like "your flow is off and this is why and something you could do to change it".

When I first became involved here (before my break) people would give that kind of critique. Now it seems like people have tried to turn it into a club for the people who are already good without going out of their way to help the new guys; which I have always felt was the purpose of the critique topic. Hopefully with you patroling the topic things will change.

One last thing: This isn't the GSA or NSL. This is smashboards. Don't expect uber professional critiques. This is supposed to be a community of people who've developed in interest in sig making. Keyword is community.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

 

[plural]

^and yet, it gets boring typing the same stuff over and over again for wikez and co doesnt it?

 

[Takumaru]

Then we need a general advice thread stickied because no one is going to sort through 700 pages of spam to find useful information. Otherwise it's just something more experience people have to deal with or just don't be involved at all. That's just part of being on a higher level than people and interacting with them. Do you know how many times I explain to people that "x" is just a variable in algebra then have to go out of my way to explain a variable? Repeating yourself just comes with the territory.

 

[A_man13]

Do you know how many times I explain to people that "x" is just a variable in algebra then have to go out of my way to explain a variable? Repeating yourself just comes with the territory.

I know how you feel. Being a kid with over a 100% in an algebra class when you are the only one not failing comes with being a tutor. I can't cout how many times I've had to re-explain something.

More on topic, it seems that everyone who is above n00b consistantly repeats the same things to the n00bs; read more tuts, no flow, buisy, plain. Not only that, but people consistantly ignore these warnings; if they heeded them, most of the repetition would go away over time.

 

[plural]

this is why we need sgtwikez sig making bible compiled and stickied.

then you can quote verses.

 

[Grandeza]

Thats actually a great idea.

 

[Gflare]

Actually, I don´t like the idea of cramming the whole art community into single topic. First, don´t try to put rules on critique, because critique is yours to change and evaluate with- if it´s someone else´s method of critique, then it´s not true critique. You´re also ****ing up the whole point of art- to express yourself, to be creative. Shackles don´t mix with creativity, leave the artist as a free entity. Moderate only when it´s overboard. Some art discussion can´t do anyone any bad, and anyways, the critique topic would move too fast if we were to keep ALL critique and ALL art discussion on it. I´d have to agree with you, Fdv, if this were to be most of the other parts of the Smashboards forums, but it´s not. If n00bs simply don´t listen to advanced critique, then leave them. You´ve done your part, you told them what was wrong- punishment for them, THEY WON´T IMPROVE. Which has been happening loads around here.
Honestly, I don´t like it how you´re treating this section of the forums as if it´s not about the discussion. We all come here for the discussion and for critique(some for shops but whatever), nothing more. If you were to take all of that and CRAM it into a little topic whereas there´s like 15+ of us to fill it up fast as ****, I´d rather back out.

 

[lordunicorn3]

i agree with the new critique topic, but i think there needs to be some guidelines so that it is not filled with spam, and move so fast
but i also do agree with gflare on how it is very hard to moderate critique and how fast that thread would fill up

 

[AzSvFeZ]

I like both opinions... Gflare is right, we're expressing ourselves in our fashion. But CnC is BS CnC if you just tell us its garbage throw it away... at least say it semi encouragingly.

But restarting the CnC thread would be great. and a very nice upgrade.

And if we put the entire art community into the CnC thread, it'll end up twice the size of the current one, in like a month, we have half the art community in the allstar shop, and its almost half the # of pages in the CnC thread in 3 weeks.... It will be packed with discussion and not too many sigs.

 

[cmpr94x]

We could make two CnC threads, new style and old style. We had the "advanced critique" but I am kinda confused about what happened to that....

 

[AlmightyJeebus]

what happened was the same thing that happened in our shop, FDV said use the critique topic, one exception, our shop didnt' get closed >.<

 

[Gflare]

That´s what I don´t understand. By closing everything and just saying "go to the critique topic", you´re not avoiding cramming, you are creating MORE cramming, cept it´s a crammed topic where every day there´s like 15 new pages.

 

[lordunicorn3]

i agree, and i think there needs to be somehow several places for people to post art

 

[AlmightyJeebus]

gflare understands what i'm sayin ^.^

 

[The Dinkoman]

I like this idea....

 

[Conker315]

Sorry, by banners I meant sigs, I'm not sure if that changes what you mean or anything.

no its fine
like i said its a good idea imo

 

[Bedi Vegeta]

Actually, I don´t like the idea of cramming the whole art community into single topic. First, don´t try to put rules on critique, because critique is yours to change and evaluate with- if it´s someone else´s method of critique, then it´s not true critique. You´re also ****ing up the whole point of art- to express yourself, to be creative. Shackles don´t mix with creativity, leave the artist as a free entity. Moderate only when it´s overboard. Some art discussion can´t do anyone any bad, and anyways, the critique topic would move too fast if we were to keep ALL critique and ALL art discussion on it. I´d have to agree with you, Fdv, if this were to be most of the other parts of the Smashboards forums, but it´s not. If n00bs simply don´t listen to advanced critique, then leave them. You´ve done your part, you told them what was wrong- punishment for them, THEY WON´T IMPROVE. Which has been happening loads around here.
Honestly, I don´t like it how you´re treating this section of the forums as if it´s not about the discussion. We all come here for the discussion and for critique(some for shops but whatever), nothing more. If you were to take all of that and CRAM it into a little topic whereas there´s like 15+ of us to fill it up fast as ****, I´d rather back out.

I didn't say it wasn't about discussion. I'm simply trying to get everybody to discuss things together, instead of creating a segregated community.

Also, I'm not cramming all art in the topic, the topic would be exclusively for sigs, and other artists would be free to put their stuff in their own topics in the rest of the room. The thing is, if I let sig makers do that, the room would be smothered with sig topics, and there would be absolutely no room for anything else. What's more, with so many topics, not everybody would get the chance to be critiqued. By having it all in the one topic everybody gets a chance to have their sigs viewed by other artists, and everybody gets a chance to comment on everybody else's work, and discuss things together.

If I let you all have a few different threads for critique, everything ends up getting separated, and you end up with a situation similar to what has been happening. Advanced users all end up gathering in one place and actually having decent discussion, while everybody else is stuck in another topic where nobody knows what they're doing, and occasionally a good artist pops their head in and tells them all that they're terrible.

Now if everybody is in the one topic, and encouraged to improve discussion, the advanced users get their advanced critique, and what's more, newcomers and those who aren't as good get a chance to see what advanced artists are making, what they are saying, and get to be critiqued by them and can ask questions. Now I know that there are some people who just don't listen, and don't seem to want to improve, and that's fine, sometimes you just have to let them be that way, but there are people who do want to learn, and having a thread with the whole sig community participating in it gives them the opportunity to do so.

Now I do get what you mean about how it might travel a bit too fast, but if people cut down on any useless talk that will help a bit, and if people contribute to the tutorial thread (which will either be the current one or a new one) and refer people to that, you can cut down on having to repeat yourselves.

 

[Ekoix.exe]

This wouldn't be so much a problem if we didn't have 50 Artists in one shop.

 

[AlmightyJeebus]

12 ARTISTS, Ekoix, 12, our 13 thought he could fare on his own and tanked :-p

 

[Ekoix.exe]

If you didn't realize, I was using something called exageration. You should try it sometimes, it helps drive in a point.

 

[AzSvFeZ]

Actually isn't that what he covered Ekoix, if we all had our own nooby seperate shops... theres 12 more topics, therefore the entire forum gets crammed with unneeded topics. As long as we get out of the shop more (Some of use do i.e. Grandeza, Conker, Jeebus, Me...) then we're just as active in the community.

 

[Ekoix.exe]

Actually isn't that what he covered Ekoix, if we all had our own nooby seperate shops... theres 12 more topics, therefore the entire forum gets crammed with unneeded topics. As long as we get out of the shop more (Some of use do i.e. Grandeza, Conker, Jeebus, Me...) then we're just as active in the community.

If you all had your own nooby shops it would help weed out the people who CAN'T Sig make. Theres no possible way someone would visit 12 topics then, They would just visit the first page ones which usually are the active open shops that earn alot of people from looks. The only reason House 'o sigs earns so many people is because its just so big. Tsk.

 

[AzSvFeZ]

yea... I guess your right, then the few that got let into the shop simply because they're alive wouldn't have a shop. And we're still getting less requests then A_mans shop did.

 

[Ekoix.exe]

yea... I guess your right, then the few that got let into the shop simply because they're alive wouldn't have a shop. And we're still getting less requests then A_mans shop did.

QFT.

Your telling me that 12 people earn less requests then one person. Brilliant, AND you guys are getting people to link back to your shop. I'll repeat myself for fun, I seriously think allowing a 12 man shop is pretty.. Uh.. You get the point. I dont want to point fingers at anyone, as usually that gets me in trouble :3.

Since someones probably running around reporting every post I make for spam with hopes up, I'll edit this incase Jeebus is reading

Don't freaking bump your thread just because its falling down the list, Thats just low.

 

[Gflare]

but if people cut down on any useless talk.

Going in circles there. Useless discussion is fun. Forums are supposed to be fun- this is not school, where you´ll flunk if you don´t watch your step.

 

[PiSToLZ]

exiox does have a point
12 people in one shop is a lot
but since if we suck so bad how come people still come?
I think its better because we can help eachother out without having to be very harsh
if we had 12 different shops the only ones who would do well would probably be conker,roller,grand, and me since we have the most experience
if we have one big shop it gives us all a chance to do what we like to do