Rayman Revolution

[Megadoomer]

It helps that there's been a datamine of World of Light that revealed 16 slots a while back. However, we don't know if they'll go all the way and fill those up.

One thing to keep in mind is that, at least based on what I've read about those World of Light slots, alternate costumes (as opposed to palette swaps) each get their own slot. (so Bayonetta takes up two slots with her Bayo 1 and 2 outfits, Corrin takes up two slots with the male and female version, Bowser Junior takes up eight slots, etc.)

I can't recall when these were datamined, but Joker has his school uniform as an alternate costume, and the Hero is four separate characters combined into one, so it seems like with Banjo and Kazooie taken into account (as one character) on top of that, that's seven of those slots already filled (Joker, Joker's school uniform, Luminary, Erdrick, Solo, Eight, Banjo-Kazooie).

If it was datamined before Piranha Plant, then it could be nine slots filled, depending on whether or not the alts in a pot and the alts in pipe count as separate slots - I think they might because the two containers are different shapes.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

One thing to keep in mind is that, at least based on what I've read about those World of Light slots, alternate costumes (as opposed to palette swaps) each get their own slot. (so Bayonetta takes up two slots with her Bayo 1 and 2 outfits, Corrin takes up two slots with the male and female version, Bowser Junior takes up eight slots, etc.)

I can't recall when these were datamined, but Joker has his school uniform as an alternate costume, and the Hero is four separate characters combined into one, so it seems like with Banjo and Kazooie taken into account (as one character) on top of that, that's seven of those slots already filled (Joker, Joker's school uniform, Luminary, Erdrick, Solo, Eight, Banjo-Kazooie).

I think you're mixing up the WOL slots with the 29 ID slots that were found a while back. Concerning the context of DLC characters, WOL slots are specifically concerning individual characters, while ID slots cover characters and any alts they may come with.

...I wish @PokefreakofBacon was still going here, so that I wouldn't have to sort this out every time.

 

[Megadoomer]

I think you're mixing up the WOL slots with the 29 ID slots that were found a while back. Concerning the context of DLC characters, WOL slots are specifically concerning individual characters, while ID slots cover characters and any alts they may come with.

...I wish @PokefreakofBacon was still going here, so that I wouldn't have to sort this out every time.

Okay, I must have mixed those up. My bad.

 

[FunAtParties]

Years ago they asked him a "similar" question. They asked him: "Can we see one day Rayman fighting Mario?"
Ancel responded with an "We'll see that soon".

This question was from 2014.

Ah yes, I remember that, I think people should keep bringing it up tbh

 

[Planet Cool]

Now that Banjo and Kazooie are in, methinks I'll migrate to Rayman and Valkyrie's support threads. Hi, everyone! How are you?

I've only played Rayman Origins and Legends (adored both), but I'm very into the little guy and given how much Smash has broadened its scope recently, I think he absolutely deserves to get in as Ubisoft's rep. I see he still doesn't have a Final Smash in the original writeup... have y'all decided on anything?

 

[MrMcNuts]

Now that Banjo and Kazooie are in, methinks I'll migrate to Rayman and Valkyrie's support threads. Hi, everyone! How are you?

I've only played Rayman Origins and Legends (adored both), but I'm very into the little guy and given how much Smash has broadened its scope recently, I think he absolutely deserves to get in as Ubisoft's rep. I see he still doesn't have a Final Smash in the original writeup... have y'all decided on anything?

My best guess would be something with the moskito from origins

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Now that Banjo and Kazooie are in, methinks I'll migrate to Rayman and Valkyrie's support threads. Hi, everyone! How are you?

I've only played Rayman Origins and Legends (adored both), but I'm very into the little guy and given how much Smash has broadened its scope recently, I think he absolutely deserves to get in as Ubisoft's rep. I see he still doesn't have a Final Smash in the original writeup... have y'all decided on anything?

The idea I always had for Rayman's final Smash was him using the red laser detergent from Rayman 3 and being powered up but Ultimate no longer has such Final Smashes.

 

[ZetaXO]

As much as I hate to count them in, Rabbids are a big part of Rayman's history. So I guess it wouldn't be surprising if we had something like Yoshi's final smash but with rabbids instead of yoshis.

 

[JamesDNaux]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

We still have a shot, even if we don't make it in the pass, make some noise so they hear us if they do a second pass.

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

My top 3 most wanted characters for smash was king k rool, banjo kazooie, and rayman and Rayman is the last character I would i ever want for super smash bros if he gets in it would be funny if hed attack with rabbids

 

[Ed-boy]

Now that Banjo and Kazooie are in, methinks I'll migrate to Rayman and Valkyrie's support threads. Hi, everyone! How are you?

I've only played Rayman Origins and Legends (adored both), but I'm very into the little guy and given how much Smash has broadened its scope recently, I think he absolutely deserves to get in as Ubisoft's rep. I see he still doesn't have a Final Smash in the original writeup... have y'all decided on anything?

He-yo Coolio! While the current Banjo bombshell is lit, I'm just the teeniest bit discouraged as far as Rayman goes... But I remain resilient that something'll turn as the year passes.

Now, on the subject of a Final Smash, I'd fancy a mosquito colony rushdown, but there's another cool FS I saw as a concept drawing by a deviant-artist back in the Smash 4 days. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I could probably find it again out the while.

EDIT: Found it! https://www.deviantart.com/bradandez/art/Rayman-s-Final-Smash-563912415

Spoiler: "Darktoons Invasion"

 

[Planet Cool]

That looks pretty neat! A bit like King Dedede's original Final Smash from Brawl. Seems kinda weird for Rayman himself to summon the Darktoons, though, doesn't it? That'd be like Mario summoning Koopas.

What about his home stage? Glade of Dreams, I take it?

 

[MrMcNuts]

That looks pretty neat! A bit like King Dedede's original Final Smash from Brawl. Seems kinda weird for Rayman himself to summon the Darktoons, though, doesn't it? That'd be like Mario summoning Koopas.

What about his home stage? Glade of Dreams, I take it?

Snoring tree, glad of dreams, band land, or maybe even land of the livid dead are my picks

 

[volbound1700]

I don't think we are in the pass but we can push to get in after the pass.

 

[Super Flygon]

Rayman already having a spirit in Ultimate definitely hurts his chances, in my opinion. Without that, I'd say he would have a good chance of getting in. That being said, I'd imagine that he'd be on the shortlist for third party characters in the next game, especially if Crash gets in as Ultimate DLC. Rayman definitely deserves to be in Smash one day though. Mario VS Sonic VS Crash VS Spyro VS Rayman needs to happen one day!

 

[FunAtParties]

I don't think we are in the pass but we can push to get in after the pass.

Unpopular opinion, but I dont think the pass is necessarily decided yet. They hint differently, but I think they're working things out as it goes. I still think anyone has a chance for the last spot

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

I think rayman's spirit increases his chances it shows that ubisoft and nintendo are in a good relationship for that character appearing in the game

 

[FunAtParties]

I don't think spirits mean anything. Nintendo is deciding, not Sakurai.

 

[Planet Cool]

Ask yourselves this: did the Lucas and Mewtwo trophies in Smash for Wii U prevent the characters themselves from getting into the DLC? The spirit may hurt Rayman's chances, but it doesn't prove he's not coming. And given Nintendo and Ubisoft's great relationship (lest we forget, Ninty publishes Rayman's games in Japan), I'd even call it probable.

Snoring tree, glad of dreams, band land, or maybe even land of the livid dead are my picks

Ooh, the Land of the Livid Dead sounds fun! I know it and Band Land are classic Rayman settings, seen in multiple games. Is that also true of the Glade of Dreams and Snoring Tree?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Is that also true of the Glade of Dreams

Rayman's entire world is collectively referred to as the Glade of Dreams, every game takes place there.

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

Ask yourselves this: did the Lucas and Mewtwo trophies in Smash for Wii U prevent the characters themselves from getting into the DLC? The spirit may hurt Rayman's chances, but it doesn't prove he's not coming. And given Nintendo and Ubisoft's great relationship (lest we forget, Ninty publishes Rayman's games in Japan), I'd even call it probable.

That is true, but there is one big difference between trophies and spirits. Trophies are just in-game models you can collect somewhere somehow, and after you've collected them, you don't really do anything else with them afterwards. Spirits however are actually used more in the gameplay itself on the Spiritsboard and World of Light (and if you really want to in some battles against your friends, but I don't really care about that myself so...) and each (or most) spirit battles has been made with a lot of thought put into them, like what character and costume they should use, what kind of power-up they should use (metal, giant, tanooki, etc.), what stage they will be fought on (that's mostly random tho), what music they should use, should the spirit get any partners or not, etc.

Not trying to bring Rayman down or anything, just trying to point something out. People think spirits can easily be compared to trophies, but spirits are much bigger than people make out of it.

 

[ZetaXO]

each (or most) spirit battles has been made with a lot of thought put into them, like what character and costume they should use, what kind of power-up they should use (metal, giant, tanooki, etc.), what stage they will be fought on (that's mostly random tho), what music they should use, should the spirit get any partners or not, etc.

Not trying to bring Rayman down or anything, just trying to point something out. People think spirits can easily be compared to trophies, but spirits are much bigger than people make out of it.

Just so you know, 3D modeling is a lot tougher than selecting battle settings. Like really, some people can imagine spirits settings for fun in seconds, here.
I know it sounds condescendent, but it's not my intension. Just... I've made a few models and it takes hours. And Sakurai said that the reason the trophies weren't returning was because of a lack of time and ressources so they made spirits instead.

 

[MrUndy]

I wanna give my thoughts on spirits too.
I'll try keep this short.
Despite the fact that all trophies and spirits are different in the way how you collecting them and how they were designed, but they are still one major thing in common. They are both in-game collectibles.
I mean, in the game menu you can see all the spirits you collected and still didn't get in the "collection" section of the menu(if I'm not wrong, I don't remember, I haven't played for a while ). And even if you collected a lot of spirits, you can't use all of them, so they still in your collection book. After beating the Classic mode you can unlock the spirit of the characters you've played. And I know you can't use the fighter spirits, but they still collectibles like battle spirits, but they just can be unlocked in different ways, like trophies. The whole thing I trying to say is that spirit are collectibles like trophies, they can be unlocked differently.

I know if Rayman or Bandana Dee will be a new playable characters despite having spirits that wouldn't make sense for many people. BUT developers can delete, rename (for example: from "Rayman" to"Rayman(Rayman Legends)", and etc.), the spirits in a update. Why no one talked about this before?

But... is there any point of finding any logical sense in the game that it's own creator see as just a casual game? There are Mario and Doctor Mario, Samus and the Samus without armor that somehow count as different characters, K. Rool's personalities became their own spirits, and Robin can summon Chrom while fighting Chrom, and people think that Rayman inclusion would break the logic wall?!? What the actual F*ck!?!
Banjo-Kazooie had a strong reason why they couldn't be in the game, but now they are finally here after many years, and seeing people still believing that a Jpeg/Png pic can kill Rayman chances to be in the game is annoying for me already.

Can we all agree that the "Spirits do deconfirm" argument is dump as hell after seeing the impossible dream coming true at Nintendo Direct at E3?

 

[Planet Cool]

I'm not a Robin player so I didn't know that s/he could summon Chrom while fighting Chrom! If that can happen, then the "Spirits deconfirm fighters!" theory is officially dead in the water.

 

[MrUndy]

I'm not a Robin player so I didn't know that s/he could summon Chrom while fighting Chrom! If that can happen, then the "Spirits deconfirm fighters!" theory is officially dead in the water.

Yeah, Robin can summon Chrom during his/her Final Smash wich was ok for Smash 4, and Chrom was referenced as a Mii costume and only. But now in Smash Ultimate where Chrom is playable it's really weird to see Robin using the same Final Smash.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

Just passing by to leave this here (which I know most of you already are aware but it's just to recapitulate on things based on Rayman):

Also, after these last days it's been a ride alright with Ultimate and the reveals we have gotten (The Hero and Banjo, my God...). Things certainly have changed in who could make it or has already b
made it.

I guess Western choices are a real possibility and that counts Rayman, just to name an example.

As perhaps, not a follower myself but someone that is supportive I would like to see the good ol limbless boi in Smash as he is so wacky and zany to join the madness. And BTW, Ubisoft seems approving of it enough so there's that.

Crossing my fingers so something happens for you guys and hell, for the people that like the character as a whole in any way, shape, or form.

.

 

[SonicMario]

Can we all agree that the "Spirits do deconfirm" argument is dump as hell after seeing the impossible dream coming true at Nintendo Direct at E3?

Before I say anything just want to say I wouldn't mind Rayman joining. And in fact at one point also didn't see Spirits were a big deal yet...

But... we have to consider the scenario we're in. I agree that on some level spirits aren't complete deconfirmations... but only if there's anything beyond this fighter pass. Because the whole thing is, all 5 fighters have been decided at around the same time most spirits have probably been listed as well (No doubt Joker, DQ Hero, and Banjo had to have been picked earlier last year because it takes a while to develop new Smash characters after all. When Sakurai said all the characters have been chosen, Character 4 and/or 5 may have just been picked back in November). And 3 of the 5 characters we have of the pass weren't spirits (4 of 6 if you include Piranha Plant) before they came in. Even if there is a character that is a spirit and becomes part of this pass. It might be only 1 character.

Trust me, I'm sure most people would prefer Spirits weren't a possible death knell for so many characters because the variety of possible characters would be multiplied much more then it is now. I think many fanbases are left hoping there's another season, but must also come to terms there's a strong possibility this fighter's pass may be the only one. And no sure thing there will be more characters outside of it, not even bonus echoes or something.

I'd absolutely love to be wrong about this, but even in the best case scenario where the remaining two are characters who are currently spirits. It's probably not going to mean much in the end. I think Rayman's best hope is hoping there's another season of the fighter pass. But I promise you, I'd like to be wrong about that.

 

[MrUndy]

Before I say anything just want to say I wouldn't mind Rayman joining. And in fact at one point also didn't see Spirits were a big deal yet...

But... we have to consider the scenario we're in. I agree that on some level spirits aren't complete deconfirmations... but only if there's anything beyond this fighter pass. Because the whole thing is, all 5 fighters have been decided at around the same time most spirits have probably been listed as well (No doubt Joker, DQ Hero, and Banjo had to have been picked earlier last year because it takes a while to develop new Smash characters after all. When Sakurai said all the characters have been chosen, Character 4 and/or 5 may have just been picked back in November). And 3 of the 5 characters we have of the pass weren't spirits (4 of 6 if you include Piranha Plant) before they came in. Even if there is a character that is a spirit and becomes part of this pass. It might be only 1 character.

Trust me, I'm sure most people would prefer Spirits weren't a possible death knell for so many characters because the variety of possible characters would be multiplied much more then it is now. I think many fanbases are left hoping there's another season, but must also come to terms there's a strong possibility this fighter's pass may be the only one. And no sure thing there will be more characters outside of it, not even bonus echoes or something.

I'd absolutely love to be wrong about this, but even in the best case scenario where the remaining two are characters who are currently spirits. It's probably not going to mean much in the end. I think Rayman's best hope is hoping there's another season of the fighter pass. But I promise you, I'd like to be wrong about that.

I know there's two arguments against Rayman: Reggie said that all characters from the Fighter Pass will be characters that's "new" for the series (the characters that wasn't mentioned in the series), and the fact that all of three characters didn't appear as spirits before, as you said. Only these arguments that I'm agree with because they are facts, and they not some dumb theorists made without facts.

But in other hand there's been datamine that reveal that there's 16 slots for DLCs. If there's going to be a new Fighter Pass, the next one can be complete opposite of the first and we will have characters that was mentioned in the series( character like: Geno, Shantae and Bandana Dee), or something like that.

Is it save say that spirit do deconfirm?
-Not really, only time will tell. But people won't see any different possibilities and like to see only limits. People already speculating that we can possibly get Waluigi or Shadow as playable characters.

I just wanted to bring some points that saw no one talking about, like, for example, spirits being in-game collectibles like trophies.

 

[Planet Cool]

I highly doubt Reggie was talking about anything but playable characters. Rayman would be "new to the series" because he's never been playable before.

 

[ZetaXO]

I totally agree. I mean, in the context I think he said "SINCE all previous characters are already here, the DLC fighters will all be new to the series", or something like that.
Sorry if it's approximative.

 

[MrUndy]

I totally agree. I mean, in the context I think he said "SINCE all previous characters are already here, the DLC fighters will all be new to the series", or something like that.
Sorry if it's approximative.

Oh, yeah, he didn't say what I wrote, I remember he said that other characters will like Joker at Game Awards 2018, or something like that...
Sorry if I brought a wrong information.

 

[Ed-boy]

I'm just gonna post what I'd call a very good point about Ray's spirit that MrMcNuts and a couple of peeps made on Twitter. A point that could very well shoot the "spirits deconfirm" mentality in the foot (which is just as well, cuz' I'm growing tired of people bringing the spirit up everytime someone states their desire for Rayman.)

https://twitter.com/DoctorMcNut/status/1139741425321558017

And there are people who act like finding a new PNG (much less making one) wouldn’t solve the Spirits deconfirmation shackle.

“SaKuRaI sAi-“

They were a cheaper resource to replace trophies. Any lore conflictions can be solved w/ another render. It’s not that deep.

— SuperMarioT (@SuperMarioT_YT) June 15, 2019

There was a problem fetching the tweet

In short, if Rayman were to get in as a fighter, then it probably wouldn't be hard for the Smash team to rename the pre-existing spirit, then pick from a gallery of artwork/renders from Rayman 1-3 & Origins for the fighter spirit. This could also apply to other characters with numerous renders/artwork, like say Dixie Kong (potential fighter spirit here). On top of that, someone also mentioned that if certain spirits were considered proper representation, then how come the likes of Ubisoft & Wayforward aren't mentioned via those small company credits in the title screen and the end of every character trailer?

 

[MrMcNuts]

I'm just gonna post what I'd call a very good point about Ray's spirit that MrMcNuts and a couple of peeps made on Twitter. A point that could very well shoot the "spirits deconfirm" mentality in the foot (which is just as well, cuz' I'm growing tired of people bringing the spirit up everytime someone states their desire for Rayman.)

https://twitter.com/DoctorMcNut/status/1139741425321558017

And there are people who act like finding a new PNG (much less making one) wouldn’t solve the Spirits deconfirmation shackle.

“SaKuRaI sAi-“

They were a cheaper resource to replace trophies. Any lore conflictions can be solved w/ another render. It’s not that deep.

— SuperMarioT (@SuperMarioT_YT) June 15, 2019

There was a problem fetching the tweet

In short, if Rayman were to get in as a fighter, then it probably wouldn't be hard for the Smash team to rename the pre-existing spirit, then pick from a gallery of artwork/renders from Rayman 1-3 & Origins for the fighter spirit. This could also apply to other characters with numerous renders/artwork, like say Dixie Kong (potential fighter spirit here). On top of that, someone also mentioned that if certain spirits were considered proper representation, then how come the likes of Ubisoft & Wayforward aren't mentioned via those small company credits in the title screen and the end of every character trailer?

That's what I've been saying lol

Also I do recommend following me on Twitter for Rayman in smash discussion since I'm a bit more active there

 

[Planet Cool]

What do you think Rayman's reveal trailer would look like? Which other characters would be involved? I think Banjo would be very apropos, since he's another zany Western character. Or maybe it could riff on the old joke about Master Hand and Crazy Hand being Rayman's hands.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

Anybody discussing this?

 

[Adelto]

I don't think this leak is real first because that would mean hero come in august and i think it's too far away secondly because i think i saw somewhere that nintendo direct are made like less than 1 week before their release and lastly i don't think they will announce the last two character that early . But i would love to have rayman he's a great character.

 

[Ed-boy]

What do you think Rayman's reveal trailer would look like? Which other characters would be involved? I think Banjo would be very apropos, since he's another zany Western character. Or maybe it could riff on the old joke about Master Hand and Crazy Hand being Rayman's hands.

Honestly, since Banjo's reveal, I've been thinking up "imitator" trailers, and Rayman is no exception.
You can recognize all the beats at this point. The other platformer toon mascots (Banjo, Mario, DK, Sonic, Kirby, Mega Man) chilling at Banjo's place (what a twist!), followed by either Sukapon or a pack of Rabbids punkin' em, then you-know-who punching them to the wayside.

Oh, and the post-gameplay ending shot'd be a reference to the end of Rayman Arena's intro .
Or maybe Ray & the others' napping "beats" like the intro to Origins? That'd be hilarious.

Besides that, there was a clever Reddit picture where Link mistakes a lum for a fairy, before Rayman grabs it. We've briefly discussed it before on the thread some time ago.

Spoiler: A Link to the Dreamworld

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/96mxdt/i_know_that_im_just_getting_my_hopes_up_but_if/

 

[StormC]

Anybody discussing this?

Nintendo doesn't have bimonthly Directs anymore. The chance that the last two characters are revealed as early as August is slim to none as well considering that the last character is due in February.

 

[volbound1700]

The biggest concern with Rayman not getting in is just the lack of support that he is receiving compared to Banjo. Banjo got up to 700 threads on here. There were countless youtube videos and discussions about Banjo joining. Even Sakurai referenced some of this in the introduction trailer. We are at a messily 56 pages and I don't see countless fan demand on the other portals either (youtube, twitter, reddit, etc.)

 

[Planet Cool]

I don't think that's actually a problem. Smash is full of characters without massive fan support movements. Joker is a great example. Piranha Plant is an even better one.