Rayman Revolution

[RaymanicRM]

Yeah, at this point I think Rayman has a good shot at being the final fighter. People keep bringing up Japan but somehow I doubt japanese switch owners are going to march down to Nintendo's headquarters with pitchforks and torches if Rayman is the one. We still got Ridley after all.

Don't forget Japan was disappointed to find out that the Rayman leak was fake. Of course they were confused who it was but they did their research, they were excited.

 

[EternalFlameGuy]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Tangentially related to our boi: Ubisoft Montpelier is hiring for a new unannounced project. Think it could have something to do with those Rayman teases a while back?

 

[Eldrake]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Tangentially related to our boi: Ubisoft Montpelier is hiring for a new unannounced project. Think it could have something to do with those Rayman teases a while back?

We can only hope.

 

[mariofan48]

Honestly at this point I'd be flabbergasted if Rayman isn't in Smash Ultimate in some further capacity than just a spirit. Not necessarily as 'the final DLC character' even if I do believe it still is very possible at this point. But you'd think that after they announced ANOTHER Collab with Nintendo on a Mario Rabbids sequel (proving that their relationship is still going very strong) that he would definitely have been a likely candidate for the roster, or just one of those Mii Costumes like Creeper and Pig.

The way I see it, there are three scenarios of which the first two seem like possible outcomes but I can't imagine the third one happening.

1. He's the final fighter for the game (Japan has gotten characters that were majorly popular in their region but not really popular anywhere else, such as Hero, so if Japan can get a character that's only popular in their region, so can we.)

2: He gets a 'deluxe' costume like Creeper, Pig, or Cuphead in the final Mii Costume wave. And if that's the case I have to ask, why didn't they just add him as a costume alongside the other two Ubisoft costumes in Byleth's wave, instead of holding his costume hostage until the final Mii Costume wave of Ultimate?

3: He doesn't get in the game at all and only remains a spirit, and this seems like the most surprising and confusing decision of them all. It would basically mean that INDIE characters like Shantae and Cuphead flat out got more representation in Smash than Rayman did, which, again, seems really odd when you consider that Ubisoft has a WAY better relationship with Nintendo in comparison to both Wayforward and StudioMDHR. It just wouldn't make any sense to me if this game ends support and he remains only as a spirit.

 

[kylexv]

I'm going to make a hard read on who the last character. At this point, I honestly think it will be Rayman due to a multitude of reasons.

Spoiler: Explanation

Let's take a look at the five characters we currently have confirmed for FP2: Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra, and Kazuya. To me, they all fit into a theme, and that each fighter listed has an aspect of them that has been given a second chance:

• Sakurai has stated that if he knew about ARMS and Xenoblade 2 when development started that he would have probably considered grabbing a character from both games. With FP2, Sakurai went back on his word and included Min Min and Pyra/Mythra, filling in those two holes and giving both games a second chance.
• Sakurai actually considered adding Heihachi into Smash 4, but couldn't find a way to make him work. Sakurai seemed to have gone back to the idea of adding a Tekken character, and Kazuya's Devil Form allowed Sakurai to find a way to make a Tekken character work in Smash Bros.
• According to someone at Mojang, talks had been going on for Steve being Smash as early as 2015. After some presumed difficulty, Steve finally made his way into the game in FP2
• Sakurai obviously knew that FFVII was lacking in content since it only had two songs and two spirits. Adding Sephiroth to the game would give Sakurai the opportunity to properly represent the game.

Each character also came from a company that was either easy to negotiate or had a character in FP1:

• Min Min and Pyra/Mythra are both Nintendo characters, so the process of getting permission to use both in Ultimate was likely very easy, especially so for Min Min since her character was created by Nintendo and not a second-party company like Intelligent Systems or Monolith Soft.
• As Bandai Namco is assisting the development of Ultimate, getting permission to use Kazuya probably wasn't too much of a hassle either.
• Nintendo already procured the rights for Banjo for FP1, so talks about Steve likely happened in tandem. This probably also applies to Sephiroth, since Square already allowed Hero in FP1.

So, where does Rayman fall into this?

• Rayman was one of the two third-party franchises in Smash 4 that did not have a fighter, the other being a neat trophy cameo from Commander Video from BIT.TRIP Runner, who currently is not in Ultimate at all. Rayman also wasn't the only one from his series with a trophy: Globox and Barbara also had trophies. What's weird about this is that, out of those three, only Rayman has a spirit in Ultimate. Personally, I would find it very odd if Rayman does not at least get a Mii Costume before development ends.
• Ubisoft also already had two costumes that came out with Byleth in FP1: the Rabbid hat and Altair, meaning that Nintendo already talked with Ubisoft to gain permission to use both of those characters as Mii costumes.
• Mario + Rabbids is also a thing, which has strengthened the relationship between Ubisoft and Nintendo. The game is even getting a sequel, showing that the collaboration was successful.
• Out of all third-party companies currently represented in Ultimate that do not have a fighter, Ubisoft is one of the biggest ones (I would consider Bethesda bigger, but they're under the Microsoft umbrella now). This isn't even mentioning the fact that Ubisoft has four spirits in the base game (Rayman, Rabbid Mario, Rabbid Peach, and Rabbid Kong).
• We have yet to get a character from a platformer in FP2.
• Rayman is a pretty popular pick among the fanbase and would be a good end to Smash Ultimate's DLC, much like Bayonetta did for Smash 4.
• Rayman even fits into color theory, since we don't have an FP2 character with a purple background yet.

Normally, I'm not the one to make these types of calls, but, in my mind, it feels like the stars are aligning for Rayman's inclusion. Everything just makes sense to me. We'll see if I'm right in a few months...

 

[EternalFlameGuy]

I'm going to make a hard read on who the last character. At this point, I honestly think it will be Rayman due to a multitude of reasons.

Spoiler: Explanation

Let's take a look at the five characters we currently have confirmed for FP2: Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra, and Kazuya. To me, they all fit into a theme, and that each fighter listed has an aspect of them that has been given a second chance:

• Sakurai has stated that if he knew about ARMS and Xenoblade 2 when development started that he would have probably considered grabbing a character from both games. With FP2, Sakurai went back on his word and included Min Min and Pyra/Mythra, filling in those two holes and giving both games a second chance.
• Sakurai actually considered adding Heihachi into Smash 4, but couldn't find a way to make him work. Sakurai seemed to have gone back to the idea of adding a Tekken character, and Kazuya's Devil Form allowed Sakurai to find a way to make a Tekken character work in Smash Bros.
• According to someone at Mojang, talks had been going on for Steve being Smash as early as 2015. After some presumed difficulty, Steve finally made his way into the game in FP2
• Sakurai obviously knew that FFVII was lacking in content since it only had two songs and two spirits. Adding Sephiroth to the game would give Sakurai the opportunity to properly represent the game.

Each character also came from a company that was either easy to negotiate or had a character in FP1:

• Min Min and Pyra/Mythra are both Nintendo characters, so the process of getting permission to use both in Ultimate was likely very easy, especially so for Min Min since her character was created by Nintendo and not a second-party company like Intelligent Systems or Monolith Soft.
• As Bandai Namco is assisting the development of Ultimate, getting permission to use Kazuya probably wasn't too much of a hassle either.
• Nintendo already procured the rights for Banjo for FP1, so talks about Steve likely happened in tandem. This probably also applies to Sephiroth, since Square already allowed Hero in FP1.

So, where does Rayman fall into this?

• Rayman was one of the two third-party franchises in Smash 4 that did not have a fighter, the other being a neat trophy cameo from Commander Video from BIT.TRIP Runner, who currently is not in Ultimate at all. Rayman also wasn't the only one from his series with a trophy: Globox and Barbara also had trophies. What's weird about this is that, out of those three, only Rayman has a spirit in Ultimate. Personally, I would find it very odd if Rayman does not at least get a Mii Costume before development ends.
• Ubisoft also already had two costumes that came out with Byleth in FP1: the Rabbid hat and Altair, meaning that Nintendo already talked with Ubisoft to gain permission to use both of those characters as Mii costumes.
• Mario + Rabbids is also a thing, which has strengthened the relationship between Ubisoft and Nintendo. The game is even getting a sequel, showing that the collaboration was successful.
• Out of all third-party companies currently represented in Ultimate that do not have a fighter, Ubisoft is one of the biggest ones (I would consider Bethesda bigger, but they're under the Microsoft umbrella now). This isn't even mentioning the fact that Ubisoft has four spirits in the base game (Rayman, Rabbid Mario, Rabbid Peach, and Rabbid Kong).
• We have yet to get a character from a platformer in FP2.
• Rayman is a pretty popular pick among the fanbase and would be a good end to Smash Ultimate's DLC, much like Bayonetta did for Smash 4.
• Rayman even fits into color theory, since we don't have an FP2 character with a purple background yet.

Normally, I'm not the one to make these types of calls, but, in my mind, it feels like the stars are aligning for Rayman's inclusion. Everything just makes sense to me. We'll see if I'm right in a few months...

The great thing about this is that it makes a damn strong case for Rayman being in the game, but only references an admittedly small amount of stuff. We still have a bunch of other things to consider in tandem, such as Ubisoft's odd behavior/silence regarding Rayman and Smash Bros, the trademarks lining up with when Fighter's Pass 2 would've been finalized exactly like Banjo with Pass 1, most recently Shantae's arc of having content in base game being expanded on with DLC, and probably other stuff I'm forgetting. That last one being especially notable as Rayman is now, if I'm not mistaken, the ONLY 3rd Party in the game to not receive additional or DLC content yet. Even the Rabbids had 3 spirits ----> a DLC costume. And with Sakurai being the person he is, I just don't see him singling out Rayman and REDUCING the content he already had when there's literally no reason to unless more was being planned for later like Min Min, Sephiroth or Pyra/Mythra. And we know there's precedent for characters being in the works for years thanks to Steve.

 

[AnAmusingFellow]

Wasn't one of the trademarks about music for a game or something? If it's related to Smash then I honestly think it might point more towards Rayman being the last fighter than a Mii costume, considering that so far only the indie game Mii costumes (Sans, Cuphead and Shantae) have come with music tracks I'm pretty sure. Seems like for franchises owned by big companies they wanna refrain from having Mii costumes that come with music tracks for some reason.

 

[TAnimal]

I'm going to make a hard read on who the last character. At this point, I honestly think it will be Rayman due to a multitude of reasons.

Spoiler: Explanation

Let's take a look at the five characters we currently have confirmed for FP2: Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra, and Kazuya. To me, they all fit into a theme, and that each fighter listed has an aspect of them that has been given a second chance:

• Sakurai has stated that if he knew about ARMS and Xenoblade 2 when development started that he would have probably considered grabbing a character from both games. With FP2, Sakurai went back on his word and included Min Min and Pyra/Mythra, filling in those two holes and giving both games a second chance.
• Sakurai actually considered adding Heihachi into Smash 4, but couldn't find a way to make him work. Sakurai seemed to have gone back to the idea of adding a Tekken character, and Kazuya's Devil Form allowed Sakurai to find a way to make a Tekken character work in Smash Bros.
• According to someone at Mojang, talks had been going on for Steve being Smash as early as 2015. After some presumed difficulty, Steve finally made his way into the game in FP2
• Sakurai obviously knew that FFVII was lacking in content since it only had two songs and two spirits. Adding Sephiroth to the game would give Sakurai the opportunity to properly represent the game.

Each character also came from a company that was either easy to negotiate or had a character in FP1:

• Min Min and Pyra/Mythra are both Nintendo characters, so the process of getting permission to use both in Ultimate was likely very easy, especially so for Min Min since her character was created by Nintendo and not a second-party company like Intelligent Systems or Monolith Soft.
• As Bandai Namco is assisting the development of Ultimate, getting permission to use Kazuya probably wasn't too much of a hassle either.
• Nintendo already procured the rights for Banjo for FP1, so talks about Steve likely happened in tandem. This probably also applies to Sephiroth, since Square already allowed Hero in FP1.

So, where does Rayman fall into this?

• Rayman was one of the two third-party franchises in Smash 4 that did not have a fighter, the other being a neat trophy cameo from Commander Video from BIT.TRIP Runner, who currently is not in Ultimate at all. Rayman also wasn't the only one from his series with a trophy: Globox and Barbara also had trophies. What's weird about this is that, out of those three, only Rayman has a spirit in Ultimate. Personally, I would find it very odd if Rayman does not at least get a Mii Costume before development ends.
• Ubisoft also already had two costumes that came out with Byleth in FP1: the Rabbid hat and Altair, meaning that Nintendo already talked with Ubisoft to gain permission to use both of those characters as Mii costumes.
• Mario + Rabbids is also a thing, which has strengthened the relationship between Ubisoft and Nintendo. The game is even getting a sequel, showing that the collaboration was successful.
• Out of all third-party companies currently represented in Ultimate that do not have a fighter, Ubisoft is one of the biggest ones (I would consider Bethesda bigger, but they're under the Microsoft umbrella now). This isn't even mentioning the fact that Ubisoft has four spirits in the base game (Rayman, Rabbid Mario, Rabbid Peach, and Rabbid Kong).
• We have yet to get a character from a platformer in FP2.
• Rayman is a pretty popular pick among the fanbase and would be a good end to Smash Ultimate's DLC, much like Bayonetta did for Smash 4.
• Rayman even fits into color theory, since we don't have an FP2 character with a purple background yet.

Normally, I'm not the one to make these types of calls, but, in my mind, it feels like the stars are aligning for Rayman's inclusion. Everything just makes sense to me. We'll see if I'm right in a few months...

Spittin Hard Facts

The great thing about this is that it makes a damn strong case for Rayman being in the game, but only references an admittedly small amount of stuff. We still have a bunch of other things to consider in tandem, such as Ubisoft's odd behavior/silence regarding Rayman and Smash Bros, the trademarks lining up with when Fighter's Pass 2 would've been finalized exactly like Banjo with Pass 1, most recently Shantae's arc of having content in base game being expanded on with DLC, and probably other stuff I'm forgetting. That last one being especially notable as Rayman is now, if I'm not mistaken, the ONLY 3rd Party in the game to not receive additional or DLC content yet. Even the Rabbids had 3 spirits ----> a DLC costume. And with Sakurai being the person he is, I just don't see him singling out Rayman and REDUCING the content he already had when there's literally no reason to unless more was being planned for later like Min Min, Sephiroth or Pyra/Mythra. And we know there's precedent for characters being in the works for years thanks to Steve.

In every case for Rayman it’s a Matter of digging deeper into the Behind The Scenes aspects of Super Smash Bros Ultimate DLC Production, and as it stands Rayman’s involvement is significant in being a Playable DLC Character, as the Content that the character brings is More Nintendo centric than most of the other talked about popular picks that would be brushed aside as Mii’s (example: Dante, Lloyd, Shantae, Travis, etc.) because of lesser Nintendo elements that weren’t viable to include in 3rd-Party titles unlike Ubisoft who are deep into the Nintendo IP Cross Collaborations.

 

[YsDisciple]

I'm going to make a hard read on who the last character. At this point, I honestly think it will be Rayman due to a multitude of reasons.

Spoiler: Explanation

Let's take a look at the five characters we currently have confirmed for FP2: Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra, and Kazuya. To me, they all fit into a theme, and that each fighter listed has an aspect of them that has been given a second chance:

• Sakurai has stated that if he knew about ARMS and Xenoblade 2 when development started that he would have probably considered grabbing a character from both games. With FP2, Sakurai went back on his word and included Min Min and Pyra/Mythra, filling in those two holes and giving both games a second chance.
• Sakurai actually considered adding Heihachi into Smash 4, but couldn't find a way to make him work. Sakurai seemed to have gone back to the idea of adding a Tekken character, and Kazuya's Devil Form allowed Sakurai to find a way to make a Tekken character work in Smash Bros.
• According to someone at Mojang, talks had been going on for Steve being Smash as early as 2015. After some presumed difficulty, Steve finally made his way into the game in FP2
• Sakurai obviously knew that FFVII was lacking in content since it only had two songs and two spirits. Adding Sephiroth to the game would give Sakurai the opportunity to properly represent the game.

Each character also came from a company that was either easy to negotiate or had a character in FP1:

• Min Min and Pyra/Mythra are both Nintendo characters, so the process of getting permission to use both in Ultimate was likely very easy, especially so for Min Min since her character was created by Nintendo and not a second-party company like Intelligent Systems or Monolith Soft.
• As Bandai Namco is assisting the development of Ultimate, getting permission to use Kazuya probably wasn't too much of a hassle either.
• Nintendo already procured the rights for Banjo for FP1, so talks about Steve likely happened in tandem. This probably also applies to Sephiroth, since Square already allowed Hero in FP1.

So, where does Rayman fall into this?

• Rayman was one of the two third-party franchises in Smash 4 that did not have a fighter, the other being a neat trophy cameo from Commander Video from BIT.TRIP Runner, who currently is not in Ultimate at all. Rayman also wasn't the only one from his series with a trophy: Globox and Barbara also had trophies. What's weird about this is that, out of those three, only Rayman has a spirit in Ultimate. Personally, I would find it very odd if Rayman does not at least get a Mii Costume before development ends.
• Ubisoft also already had two costumes that came out with Byleth in FP1: the Rabbid hat and Altair, meaning that Nintendo already talked with Ubisoft to gain permission to use both of those characters as Mii costumes.
• Mario + Rabbids is also a thing, which has strengthened the relationship between Ubisoft and Nintendo. The game is even getting a sequel, showing that the collaboration was successful.
• Out of all third-party companies currently represented in Ultimate that do not have a fighter, Ubisoft is one of the biggest ones (I would consider Bethesda bigger, but they're under the Microsoft umbrella now). This isn't even mentioning the fact that Ubisoft has four spirits in the base game (Rayman, Rabbid Mario, Rabbid Peach, and Rabbid Kong).
• We have yet to get a character from a platformer in FP2.
• Rayman is a pretty popular pick among the fanbase and would be a good end to Smash Ultimate's DLC, much like Bayonetta did for Smash 4.
• Rayman even fits into color theory, since we don't have an FP2 character with a purple background yet.

Normally, I'm not the one to make these types of calls, but, in my mind, it feels like the stars are aligning for Rayman's inclusion. Everything just makes sense to me. We'll see if I'm right in a few months...

During the weekend I went through all (if not most) of the points going in favor for Rayman as possibly CP 11, and indeed these could be considered to go as far back as his trophy inclusion in Smash 4 (back in 2014). Now, when one looks at the third party Companies that had content in Smash 4, and how that content transitioned to Ultimate, out of all the third parties, Ubisoft experienced a "downgrade" (specifically for the Rayman series). Do recall that the Rabbid spirits (from Mario + Rabbids) are classified under the Super Mario Bros. series. The omission of at least a Globox and Barbara spirit in Ultimate's base game has always seemed strange, and the Ubisoft Mii Costumes added in the fifth Mii Costume wave just added more fuel to the fire (of speculation).

As it has been noticed, Fighters Pass Vol. 2 is lacking a "platformer" rep (albeit one may argue that it's not necessary), and so far there are two apparent patterns that can be observed when looking at this image.

Spoiler: Ultimate DLC fighter page

1. There seems to be a color pattern of each DLC fighter's background, and going off by said pattern it would indicate that the last fighter would have a purple (or purple-ish hue) background.
2. Out of all the DLC thus far, six of the series are new to Ultimate (Persona, Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie, Fatal Fury, Minecraft, Tekken), and five of these are from returning series, or those that already had representation within the base game (Super Mario Bros., Fire Emblem, ARMS, Final Fantasy, Xenoblade Chronicles). Rayman could be the sixth series that already had representation in Ultimate's base game.
*In regards to Tekken, although Heihachi's Mii Costume was originally DLC in Smash 4, it wasn't in Ultimate's base game, and released within the second Fighters Pass, albeit before Kazuya's CP.

Again, for a close collaborating third party Company like Ubisoft, who has been given permission to work with not one, but three Nintendo IPs (Super Mario Bros., Donkey Kong, Star Fox), and only have a small representation in Ultimate, and one Rayman spirit in base game? It doesn't match the "Everyone is Here!" pitch, and much less the idea of "everything is here".

 

[G-Star]

Rayman consistently seems to have more and more of a better chance joining Smash. And it's not like detractors could argue anything at this point, because if they use the Japan argument, we could just hit 'em with Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[Nova7087]

I'm gonna drop my research here in regards to Rayman's chances as a playable fighter in Ultimate:

• The Nintendo company didn’t know we wanted Rayman in Smash until the Fighter Ballot. Would Nintendo accept that? Before Smash Ultimate came out, Ubisoft Paris made Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle which was met with great reviews and sales. Most likely, Nintendo would approve of Rayman being in Smash.
• The Fighter Ballot had a huge influence on Ultimate’s roster (Everyone is Here!). Rayman was voted as much as the popular veterans and newcomers in Ultimate (Snake, Wolf, K.Rool, Ridley, etc.)
• Fighter’s Pass Volume 2 looks like it’s giving certain game series another chance in the spotlight before Ultimate ends its DLC. Sakurai wanted a character from ARMS and Xenoblade 2 but it was too late for them because of Ultimate’s design plan being finalized before the two said games got released. ARMS and XC2 had little and incomplete content at Ultimate’s launch before Min Min and Pyra/Mythra gave their own games more representation. Same can be said with FFVII representation in Smash Ultimate. Why so little content for one of the most cultural JRPGs of all time yet they added the Dragon Quest Hero with a lot of rep that showed that Square Enix wasn’t greedy (And FFVII and FFVIII were ported to Switch in the same year Hero was released). Sephiroth added more content for FFVII. TEKKEN fits in this theory perfectly well. Sakurai wanted Heihachi to be playable in Smash 4 but it didn’t happen due to implementation difficulties. And now we’re in Ultimate and they added Minecraft Steve which was deemed impossible as said by Sakurai himself. Heihachi became Mii but there was still an opportunity for a TEKKEN rep, like how Rex’s Mii didn’t butcher Pyra/Mythra. Kazuya came and TEKKEN got a lot of Smash love. What about Steve? Discussions of Minecraft in Smash started five years ago, most likely the same time when Minecraft came to Wii U. Steve was finally added. Steve was given many chances after Sakurai deeming him as impossible and all of the fighter inclusions that happened before him. All of the characters in FP2 were all thought about during Ultimate’s base game development, as it looks like. How does Rayman fit in this? Rayman had three trophies in Smash 4 but he only has one spirit in Ultimate? Why? Spirits are very easy to include in Ultimate, they reference way too many obscure characters and they’re going to add more with DLC and Spirit Events. Yet, Globox and Barbara didn’t get spirits each. This is very strange and could foreshadow Rayman getting more spirits and other rep through a Challenger Pack.
• In Byleth’s presentation, Ubisoft Mii costumes were shown that include Altair and a Rabbid. Rayman would be a part of the Ubi Miis (And Miis can kill off fan favourite requests). But… he wasn’t included? CAPCOM had many Mii sets in many DLC Fighter presentations, so that could mean we could get more Ubi Miis. Geno and Chocobo Miis weren’t in Hero’s presentation and they were saved for Sephiroth’s presentation. Challenger Pack 11 is the last DLC pack for Ultimate. It could either be an Ubisoft character that’s Rayman along with Ubi Miis of other characters. Or, CP11 isn’t Rayman and he becomes a Mii instead. Then again, Rayman would’ve been perfect to be included with Altair and Rabbids but he didn’t get in, which is still suspicious.
• Ubisoft’s version of Siri known as Sam would say that he hoped to see Rayman be Smash DLC when replying to a Smash related message. Sam was changed to say something else and say nothing about Rayman in Smash when replying to a Smash related message. And Ubisoft posted a survey question if they wanted to see Rayman as Smash DLC but that was taken down in 24 hours. All of this could mean that Ubi didn’t want people to get their hopes up or… they’re bad at keeping a secret that involves Rayman in Smash.
• Nintendo’s 2019 E3 Direct had Hero shown first and Banjo & Kazooie shown last. It’s like Nintendo knows that people wouldn’t be that hyped about Hero and they would go crazy over Banjo instead. And gaming presentations, especially Nintendo’s directs, mostly end with strong notes. Nintendo was supposed to have an E3 2020 direct that would show off Min Min first and most likely, Steve at the end. Sakurai has said “Even I didn’t think this day would come” AS IF they knew that people would go insane over Minecraft in Smash (which sounds obvious enough). Steve was perfect for an E3 reveal. Nintendo did have a, E3 2021 direct and only showed one Smash character at the beginning of the direct who was Kazuya. What if the 2021 direct had a Smash reveal at the end of its presentation? Who would’ve been an internet breaking character? Hero, Min Min and Kazuya were all intended as direct start offs that ****ed over Smash speculation. And Banjo and Steve were intended as strong send-offs that showed the only times where DLC Smash speculation was right. Banjo and Steve were also Fall releases and CP11 could be a Fall release as well considering the Smash team are not working on any other Challenger Packs and they’re working at a different studio instead of at home, so development could be slightly quicker and come soon instead of November or December. With the evidence listed for Rayman so far and how much he’s been requested for years, it looks like Nintendo’s E3 2021 direct almost showed Rayman punching the **** out of everyone.
• If you go to Smash Ultimate’s website, the DLC list of characters have four horizontal rows having three fighters each. The rows have a colour pattern. Rows 1 and 4 have green(Plant, Pyra), red(Joker, Kazuya) and purple(Hero, Unknown) fighters each. Rows 2 and 3 have yellow(Min Min, Banjo). blue(Terry, Steve) and green(Byleth, Sephiroth). As it looks like, Challenger Pack 11 is purple related and Rayman suits best for purple!
• Major 3rd party series that was repped at launch and don’t have a fighter are getting Mii upgrades. Shantae, Bomberman, Rabbids and Virtua Fighter have all had either spirits and assists and they all got Mii costumes through Ultimate’s DLC. What about Shovel Knight and Rayman? Shovel Knight got assist’d and would most likely be a Mii (Much like Spring Man). Rayman could also get Mii’d but he still has the missing spirits + the evidence listed above, a Mii costume probably won’t end Rayman’s potential of being a fighter.
• Have you noticed how people never expected Challenger Pack 5 to be very disappointing (not to me) and now there’s a lot of people who are expecting Challenger Pack 11 to be disappointing. And people now realize that Smash's last characters for each game don't end with a strong note. Speculators all putting their bets on the last character being a Galar Pokemon despite Pokemon SWSH getting a spirit event. Three Houses never got one, suspiciously. The sixth point listed above provides evidence of the next Smash character being an exciting reveal to a lot of people, much like Banjo and Steve. And Rayman is perfect for that position after all the times he’s been demanded.

Have you ever noticed how I didn’t put any leaks and insider information on any of the listed points. That would make these points seem very hard to debunk. I know some of these points seem like huge reaches but the theories were made due to Nintendo and the Smash team’s own actions. They gave us the puzzle pieces and I put them together to create the picture. The picture is Rayman being Challenger Pack 11.

It would be very weird if Rayman wasn’t Challenger Pack 11 after all of the points listed here.

Sources:
Fighter Ballot influencing Ultimate’s roster
Fighter Pass Volume 2 giving out second chances
Ubisoft Sam being changed
Ubisoft taking down the survey question
Non-playable 3rd party series in Smash are getting Mii upgrades

 

[AnAmusingFellow]

Rayman consistently seems to have more and more of a better chance joining Smash. And it's not like detractors could argue anything at this point, because if they use the Japan argument, we could just hit 'em with Banjo-Kazooie.

I mean to be fair, Banjo-Kazooie is actually fairly popular in Japan and they were also pretty highly requested there too. But yeah, I don't think the whole "not popular in Japan" thing means Rayman can't get in, we've had characters that mainly appeal to Western audiences before like Little Mac, Ridley and Dark Samus (granted none of them were DLC characters but still)

I've gotten a bit more hopeful for Rayman being the final character but I'm still gonna try to remain cautious, I still think it's pretty likely that the last one is gonna be a first-party character, though as other people in this thread have pointed out Rayman does still have a fair few things going for him.

 

[G-Star]

I mean to be fair, Banjo-Kazooie is actually fairly popular in Japan and they were also pretty highly requested there too. But yeah, I don't think the whole "not popular in Japan" thing means Rayman can't get in, we've had characters that mainly appeal to Western audiences before like Little Mac, Ridley and Dark Samus (granted none of them were DLC characters but still)

I've gotten a bit more hopeful for Rayman being the final character but I'm still gonna try to remain cautious, I still think it's pretty likely that the last one is gonna be a first-party character, though as other people in this thread have pointed out Rayman does still have a fair few things going for him.

Rayman has more than a few things going for him and would make perfect sense to be the final fighter, besides there's already two first-party characters in Vol. 2, so I don't think they do another, especially when the DLC is usually mostly third-party.

 

[AnAmusingFellow]

Rayman has more than a few things going for him and would make perfect sense to be the final fighter, besides there's already two first-party characters in Vol. 2, so I don't think they do another, especially when the DLC is usually mostly third-party.

I dunno, it just feels very likely to me that things will end with a first-party character, given that's usually how things go with Smash (granted there was Bayonetta in Smash 4, but even then she was revealed in the same Direct as Corrin, a first-party character)

Not saying it's a pattern that's set in stone, it just seems like Nintendo prefers to go this route when it comes to the order of Smash reveals

 

[mariofan48]

Rayman consistently seems to have more and more of a better chance joining Smash. And it's not like detractors could argue anything at this point, because if they use the Japan argument, we could just hit 'em with Banjo-Kazooie.

They'll probably just say that "Banjo Kazooie was a requested Smash pick for over two decades he doesn't count!" or some stupid thing like that

 

[ivanlerma]

I'm gonna drop my research here in regards to Rayman's chances as a playable fighter in Ultimate:

• The Nintendo company didn’t know we wanted Rayman in Smash until the Fighter Ballot. Would Nintendo accept that? Before Smash Ultimate came out, Ubisoft Paris made Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle which was met with great reviews and sales. Most likely, Nintendo would approve of Rayman being in Smash.
• The Fighter Ballot had a huge influence on Ultimate’s roster (Everyone is Here!). Rayman was voted as much as the popular veterans and newcomers in Ultimate (Snake, Wolf, K.Rool, Ridley, etc.)
• Fighter’s Pass Volume 2 looks like it’s giving certain game series another chance in the spotlight before Ultimate ends its DLC. Sakurai wanted a character from ARMS and Xenoblade 2 but it was too late for them because of Ultimate’s design plan being finalized before the two said games got released. ARMS and XC2 had little and incomplete content at Ultimate’s launch before Min Min and Pyra/Mythra gave their own games more representation. Same can be said with FFVII representation in Smash Ultimate. Why so little content for one of the most cultural JRPGs of all time yet they added the Dragon Quest Hero with a lot of rep that showed that Square Enix wasn’t greedy (And FFVII and FFVIII were ported to Switch in the same year Hero was released). Sephiroth added more content for FFVII. TEKKEN fits in this theory perfectly well. Sakurai wanted Heihachi to be playable in Smash 4 but it didn’t happen due to implementation difficulties. And now we’re in Ultimate and they added Minecraft Steve which was deemed impossible as said by Sakurai himself. Heihachi became Mii but there was still an opportunity for a TEKKEN rep, like how Rex’s Mii didn’t butcher Pyra/Mythra. Kazuya came and TEKKEN got a lot of Smash love. What about Steve? Discussions of Minecraft in Smash started five years ago, most likely the same time when Minecraft came to Wii U. Steve was finally added. Steve was given many chances after Sakurai deeming him as impossible and all of the fighter inclusions that happened before him. All of the characters in FP2 were all thought about during Ultimate’s base game development, as it looks like. How does Rayman fit in this? Rayman had three trophies in Smash 4 but he only has one spirit in Ultimate? Why? Spirits are very easy to include in Ultimate, they reference way too many obscure characters and they’re going to add more with DLC and Spirit Events. Yet, Globox and Barbara didn’t get spirits each. This is very strange and could foreshadow Rayman getting more spirits and other rep through a Challenger Pack.
• In Byleth’s presentation, Ubisoft Mii costumes were shown that include Altair and a Rabbid. Rayman would be a part of the Ubi Miis (And Miis can kill off fan favourite requests). But… he wasn’t included? CAPCOM had many Mii sets in many DLC Fighter presentations, so that could mean we could get more Ubi Miis. Geno and Chocobo Miis weren’t in Hero’s presentation and they were saved for Sephiroth’s presentation. Challenger Pack 11 is the last DLC pack for Ultimate. It could either be an Ubisoft character that’s Rayman along with Ubi Miis of other characters. Or, CP11 isn’t Rayman and he becomes a Mii instead. Then again, Rayman would’ve been perfect to be included with Altair and Rabbids but he didn’t get in, which is still suspicious.
• Ubisoft’s version of Siri known as Sam would say that he hoped to see Rayman be Smash DLC when replying to a Smash related message. Sam was changed to say something else and say nothing about Rayman in Smash when replying to a Smash related message. And Ubisoft posted a survey question if they wanted to see Rayman as Smash DLC but that was taken down in 24 hours. All of this could mean that Ubi didn’t want people to get their hopes up or… they’re bad at keeping a secret that involves Rayman in Smash.
• Nintendo’s 2019 E3 Direct had Hero shown first and Banjo & Kazooie shown last. It’s like Nintendo knows that people wouldn’t be that hyped about Hero and they would go crazy over Banjo instead. And gaming presentations, especially Nintendo’s directs, mostly end with strong notes. Nintendo was supposed to have an E3 2020 direct that would show off Min Min first and most likely, Steve at the end. Sakurai has said “Even I didn’t think this day would come” AS IF they knew that people would go insane over Minecraft in Smash (which sounds obvious enough). Steve was perfect for an E3 reveal. Nintendo did have a, E3 2021 direct and only showed one Smash character at the beginning of the direct who was Kazuya. What if the 2021 direct had a Smash reveal at the end of its presentation? Who would’ve been an internet breaking character? Hero, Min Min and Kazuya were all intended as direct start offs that *ed over Smash speculation. And Banjo and Steve were intended as strong send-offs that showed the only times where DLC Smash speculation was right. Banjo and Steve were also Fall releases and CP11 could be a Fall release as well considering the Smash team are not working on any other Challenger Packs and they’re working at a different studio instead of at home, so development could be slightly quicker and come soon instead of November or December. With the evidence listed for Rayman so far and how much he’s been requested for years, it looks like Nintendo’s E3 2021 direct almost showed Rayman punching the * out of everyone.
• If you go to Smash Ultimate’s website, the DLC list of characters have four horizontal rows having three fighters each. The rows have a colour pattern. Rows 1 and 4 have green(Plant, Pyra), red(Joker, Kazuya) and purple(Hero, Unknown) fighters each. Rows 2 and 3 have yellow(Min Min, Banjo). blue(Terry, Steve) and green(Byleth, Sephiroth). As it looks like, Challenger Pack 11 is purple related and Rayman suits best for purple!
• Major 3rd party series that was repped at launch and don’t have a fighter are getting Mii upgrades. Shantae, Bomberman, Rabbids and Virtua Fighter have all had either spirits and assists and they all got Mii costumes through Ultimate’s DLC. What about Shovel Knight and Rayman? Shovel Knight got assist’d and would most likely be a Mii (Much like Spring Man). Rayman could also get Mii’d but he still has the missing spirits + the evidence listed above, a Mii costume probably won’t end Rayman’s potential of being a fighter.
• Have you noticed how people never expected Challenger Pack 5 to be very disappointing (not to me) and now there’s a lot of people who are expecting Challenger Pack 11 to be disappointing. And people now realize that Smash's last characters for each game don't end with a strong note. Speculators all putting their bets on the last character being a Galar Pokemon despite Pokemon SWSH getting a spirit event. Three Houses never got one, suspiciously. The sixth point listed above provides evidence of the next Smash character being an exciting reveal to a lot of people, much like Banjo and Steve. And Rayman is perfect for that position after all the times he’s been demanded.

Have you ever noticed how I didn’t put any leaks and insider information on any of the listed points. That would make these points seem very hard to debunk. I know some of these points seem like huge reaches but the theories were made due to Nintendo and the Smash team’s own actions. They gave us the puzzle pieces and I put them together to create the picture. The picture is Rayman being Challenger Pack 11.

It would be very weird if Rayman wasn’t Challenger Pack 11 after all of the points listed here.

Sources:
Fighter Ballot influencing Ultimate’s roster
Fighter Pass Volume 2 giving out second chances
Ubisoft Sam being changed
Ubisoft taking down the survey question
Non-playable 3rd party series in Smash are getting Mii upgrades

The last point seems a little off to me, maybe it's cause i believe everyone's expecting master chief.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Eh, like it was said already. Banjo and K. Rool were decent Japanese requests, so they're not the best examples to counterpoint Rayman's lack of Japanese popularity. That would be Little Mac, who was received as a literal who by them while also having no significant fan demand behind him.

Ridley's name was familiar to the Japanese public, but they didn't advocate for him all that much since Metroid isn't a popular series there either. He was added entirely out of Western demand, so that counts for something.

The goalpost moving argument that could be made here is that those two are both Nintendo-owned series and we've yet to see a Western-biased third party in the game, but I think that's irrelevant, honestly. It's just waiting to be broken.

 

[mariofan48]

Eh, like it was said already. Banjo and K. Rool were decent Japanese requests, so they're not the best examples to counterpoint Rayman's lack of Japanese popularity. That would be Little Mac, who was received as a literal who by them while also having no significant fan demand behind him.

Ridley's name was familiar to the Japanese public, but they didn't advocate for him all that much since Metroid isn't a popular series there either. He was added entirely out of Western demand, so that counts for something.

The goalpost moving argument that could be made here is that those two are both Nintendo-owned series and we've yet to see a Western-biased third party in the game, but I think that's irrelevant, honestly. It's just waiting to be broken.

Hopefully Rayman will be the first one to do it!

I'm gonna drop my research here in regards to Rayman's chances as a playable fighter in Ultimate:

• The Nintendo company didn’t know we wanted Rayman in Smash until the Fighter Ballot. Would Nintendo accept that? Before Smash Ultimate came out, Ubisoft Paris made Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle which was met with great reviews and sales. Most likely, Nintendo would approve of Rayman being in Smash.
• The Fighter Ballot had a huge influence on Ultimate’s roster (Everyone is Here!). Rayman was voted as much as the popular veterans and newcomers in Ultimate (Snake, Wolf, K.Rool, Ridley, etc.)
• Fighter’s Pass Volume 2 looks like it’s giving certain game series another chance in the spotlight before Ultimate ends its DLC. Sakurai wanted a character from ARMS and Xenoblade 2 but it was too late for them because of Ultimate’s design plan being finalized before the two said games got released. ARMS and XC2 had little and incomplete content at Ultimate’s launch before Min Min and Pyra/Mythra gave their own games more representation. Same can be said with FFVII representation in Smash Ultimate. Why so little content for one of the most cultural JRPGs of all time yet they added the Dragon Quest Hero with a lot of rep that showed that Square Enix wasn’t greedy (And FFVII and FFVIII were ported to Switch in the same year Hero was released). Sephiroth added more content for FFVII. TEKKEN fits in this theory perfectly well. Sakurai wanted Heihachi to be playable in Smash 4 but it didn’t happen due to implementation difficulties. And now we’re in Ultimate and they added Minecraft Steve which was deemed impossible as said by Sakurai himself. Heihachi became Mii but there was still an opportunity for a TEKKEN rep, like how Rex’s Mii didn’t butcher Pyra/Mythra. Kazuya came and TEKKEN got a lot of Smash love. What about Steve? Discussions of Minecraft in Smash started five years ago, most likely the same time when Minecraft came to Wii U. Steve was finally added. Steve was given many chances after Sakurai deeming him as impossible and all of the fighter inclusions that happened before him. All of the characters in FP2 were all thought about during Ultimate’s base game development, as it looks like. How does Rayman fit in this? Rayman had three trophies in Smash 4 but he only has one spirit in Ultimate? Why? Spirits are very easy to include in Ultimate, they reference way too many obscure characters and they’re going to add more with DLC and Spirit Events. Yet, Globox and Barbara didn’t get spirits each. This is very strange and could foreshadow Rayman getting more spirits and other rep through a Challenger Pack.
• In Byleth’s presentation, Ubisoft Mii costumes were shown that include Altair and a Rabbid. Rayman would be a part of the Ubi Miis (And Miis can kill off fan favourite requests). But… he wasn’t included? CAPCOM had many Mii sets in many DLC Fighter presentations, so that could mean we could get more Ubi Miis. Geno and Chocobo Miis weren’t in Hero’s presentation and they were saved for Sephiroth’s presentation. Challenger Pack 11 is the last DLC pack for Ultimate. It could either be an Ubisoft character that’s Rayman along with Ubi Miis of other characters. Or, CP11 isn’t Rayman and he becomes a Mii instead. Then again, Rayman would’ve been perfect to be included with Altair and Rabbids but he didn’t get in, which is still suspicious.
• Ubisoft’s version of Siri known as Sam would say that he hoped to see Rayman be Smash DLC when replying to a Smash related message. Sam was changed to say something else and say nothing about Rayman in Smash when replying to a Smash related message. And Ubisoft posted a survey question if they wanted to see Rayman as Smash DLC but that was taken down in 24 hours. All of this could mean that Ubi didn’t want people to get their hopes up or… they’re bad at keeping a secret that involves Rayman in Smash.
• Nintendo’s 2019 E3 Direct had Hero shown first and Banjo & Kazooie shown last. It’s like Nintendo knows that people wouldn’t be that hyped about Hero and they would go crazy over Banjo instead. And gaming presentations, especially Nintendo’s directs, mostly end with strong notes. Nintendo was supposed to have an E3 2020 direct that would show off Min Min first and most likely, Steve at the end. Sakurai has said “Even I didn’t think this day would come” AS IF they knew that people would go insane over Minecraft in Smash (which sounds obvious enough). Steve was perfect for an E3 reveal. Nintendo did have a, E3 2021 direct and only showed one Smash character at the beginning of the direct who was Kazuya. What if the 2021 direct had a Smash reveal at the end of its presentation? Who would’ve been an internet breaking character? Hero, Min Min and Kazuya were all intended as direct start offs that *ed over Smash speculation. And Banjo and Steve were intended as strong send-offs that showed the only times where DLC Smash speculation was right. Banjo and Steve were also Fall releases and CP11 could be a Fall release as well considering the Smash team are not working on any other Challenger Packs and they’re working at a different studio instead of at home, so development could be slightly quicker and come soon instead of November or December. With the evidence listed for Rayman so far and how much he’s been requested for years, it looks like Nintendo’s E3 2021 direct almost showed Rayman punching the * out of everyone.
• If you go to Smash Ultimate’s website, the DLC list of characters have four horizontal rows having three fighters each. The rows have a colour pattern. Rows 1 and 4 have green(Plant, Pyra), red(Joker, Kazuya) and purple(Hero, Unknown) fighters each. Rows 2 and 3 have yellow(Min Min, Banjo). blue(Terry, Steve) and green(Byleth, Sephiroth). As it looks like, Challenger Pack 11 is purple related and Rayman suits best for purple!
• Major 3rd party series that was repped at launch and don’t have a fighter are getting Mii upgrades. Shantae, Bomberman, Rabbids and Virtua Fighter have all had either spirits and assists and they all got Mii costumes through Ultimate’s DLC. What about Shovel Knight and Rayman? Shovel Knight got assist’d and would most likely be a Mii (Much like Spring Man). Rayman could also get Mii’d but he still has the missing spirits + the evidence listed above, a Mii costume probably won’t end Rayman’s potential of being a fighter.
• Have you noticed how people never expected Challenger Pack 5 to be very disappointing (not to me) and now there’s a lot of people who are expecting Challenger Pack 11 to be disappointing. And people now realize that Smash's last characters for each game don't end with a strong note. Speculators all putting their bets on the last character being a Galar Pokemon despite Pokemon SWSH getting a spirit event. Three Houses never got one, suspiciously. The sixth point listed above provides evidence of the next Smash character being an exciting reveal to a lot of people, much like Banjo and Steve. And Rayman is perfect for that position after all the times he’s been demanded.

Have you ever noticed how I didn’t put any leaks and insider information on any of the listed points. That would make these points seem very hard to debunk. I know some of these points seem like huge reaches but the theories were made due to Nintendo and the Smash team’s own actions. They gave us the puzzle pieces and I put them together to create the picture. The picture is Rayman being Challenger Pack 11.

It would be very weird if Rayman wasn’t Challenger Pack 11 after all of the points listed here.

Sources:
Fighter Ballot influencing Ultimate’s roster
Fighter Pass Volume 2 giving out second chances
Ubisoft Sam being changed
Ubisoft taking down the survey question
Non-playable 3rd party series in Smash are getting Mii upgrades

I have had similar sentiments to this in a recent post that I made as well.

 

[Maupiszon]

Eh, like it was said already. Banjo and K. Rool were decent Japanese requests, so they're not the best examples to counterpoint Rayman's lack of Japanese popularity. That would be Little Mac, who was received as a literal who by them while also having no significant fan demand behind him.

Ridley's name was familiar to the Japanese public, but they didn't advocate for him all that much since Metroid isn't a popular series there either. He was added entirely out of Western demand, so that counts for something.

The goalpost moving argument that could be made here is that those two are both Nintendo-owned series and we've yet to see a Western-biased third party in the game, but I think that's irrelevant, honestly. It's just waiting to be broken.

I think Banjo and Kazooie are still a good point. While K. Rool still dominated "The Most Requested Character" charts in Japan as well, Banjo was mostly on the lesser side - at least on the bottom in Top 20 lists, which isn't bad at all for a Western character by any means! But I think it was giant cult following from Western fans and requests that got him in. While K. Rool's Western fanbase was as dedicated as Banjo's, he was still one of the most requested characters in Japan so I could still see him happening if Sakurai and the rest of the Smash team only looked at Japanese fan requests, but if it was only Japanese requests for Banjo and Kazooie? Not so much.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

I think Banjo and Kazooie are still a good point. While K. Rool still dominated "The Most Requested Character" charts in Japan as well, Banjo was mostly on the lesser side - at least on the bottom in Top 20 lists, which isn't bad at all for a Western character by any means! But I think it was giant cult following from Western fans and requests that got him in. While K. Rool's Western fanbase was as dedicated as Banjo's, he was still one of the most requested characters in Japan so I could still see him happening if Sakurai and the rest of the Smash team only looked at Japanese fan requests, but if it was only Japanese requests for Banjo and Kazooie? Not so much.

Point is that unlike Rayman, Banjo isn't a literal who character to Japan, and the series found moderate success in the region. He's comparable to Crash if anyone in current speculation.

I already said it shouldn't be relevant anyway, as Rayman has very good odds even without Japan's support, but we shouldn't ignore the facts as they are.

 

[YsDisciple]

Comparisons aside, there are a few points that really drive Rayman's chances for CP 11 way up.

• Smash for Wii U trophies: Ubisoft themselves provided Sakurai and Co. a 3D model of Rayman, Globox, and Barbara; the most important one being Rayman's. Basically since late 2014 they've had an exclusive Rayman 3D model to work with for a potential fighter.
• Back in Rayman Legends (Wii U version), there were two exclusive costumes; one being a Mario costume for Rayman, and a Luigi costume for Globox. In the Switch port of the game, you can unlock both skins as well.
• Up to this date, Ubisoft has been allowed by Nintendo to work with three of their top IPs (Super Mario Bros., Donkey Kong, and Starfox). Not only that, but the fact that Ubisoft (Milan) are currently working on a second Mario + Rabbids game which is scheduled for release next year (2022), and which will most likely add even more Mario content is very telling. Nintendo doesn't lend their top IPs just to anyone so, yeah, pretty big deal.
• Something of a coincidence but quite the eyebrow-raising one is that, when Ubisoft replied to a Twitter user in regards to the Artsy Omni fake leak of Rayman back in 2015, they expressed that they would love to see Rayman join Smash, but were glad that he at least got a trophy (in Smash 4). During the same year Phil Spencer had also expressed he'd be fine with Banjo & Kazooie joining Smash when asked by a Twitter user as well (and y'all know how that turned out years later). This one's more of a neat coincidence but it also serves as a reminder to how long some negotiations may take.
• Another coincidence similar to the aforementioned one (but in greater scale), during late 2015, Minecraft was released for the Wii U. A Microsoft owned IP's game had made it to a rival system; wow. Around this time, and I believe more during the start of the Switch era, there was this subtle message going on when crossplay was a big topic at the moment which said "survive together", and you'd see one word within a red background, and the other over a green background. This of course was Nintendo and Microsoft letting fans know that games (mainly Minecraft) which were available in both systems featured crossplay. In addition to this, Microsoft has allowed for other of its IPs to be on the Switch (namely Banjo-Kazooie via Smash, and Cuphead). Now, the coincidence here that Ubisoft shares with Microsoft is that around late 2014 was the time when the pitch for the Mario + Rabbids game was made to Nintendo. Not long after that Davide's team was given the OK by Miyamoto and Nintendo and started working on the game as early as 2015. Sure, it's a crossover with the Raving Rabbids IP but, this IP originated from Rayman. Again, the close collaboration between partners is always a big deal, and collaboration "bundles" can be expected as a result.

Something I'd like to know; was it just me or did anyone else find the inclusion of Sukapon as an Assist Trophy to be the weirdest one of all, and at the same time very curious that it was used for Rayman's spirit battle?

 

[EternalFlameGuy]

Comparisons aside, there are a few points that really drive Rayman's chances for CP 11 way up.

• Smash for Wii U trophies: Ubisoft themselves provided Sakurai and Co. a 3D model of Rayman, Globox, and Barbara; the most important one being Rayman's. Basically since late 2014 they've had an exclusive Rayman 3D model to work with for a potential fighter.
• Back in Rayman Legends (Wii U version), there were two exclusive costumes; one being a Mario costume for Rayman, and a Luigi costume for Globox. In the Switch port of the game, you can unlock both skins as well.
• Up to this date, Ubisoft has been allowed by Nintendo to work with three of their top IPs (Super Mario Bros., Donkey Kong, and Starfox). Not only that, but the fact that Ubisoft (Milan) are currently working on a second Mario + Rabbids game which is scheduled for release next year (2022), and which will most likely add even more Mario content is very telling. Nintendo doesn't lend their top IPs just to anyone so, yeah, pretty big deal.
• Something of a coincidence but quite the eyebrow-raising one is that, when Ubisoft replied to a Twitter user in regards to the Artsy Omni fake leak of Rayman back in 2015, they expressed that they would love to see Rayman join Smash, but were glad that he at least got a trophy (in Smash 4). During the same year Phil Spencer had also expressed he'd be fine with Banjo & Kazooie joining Smash when asked by a Twitter user as well (and y'all know how that turned out years later). This one's more of a neat coincidence but it also serves as a reminder to how long some negotiations may take.
• Another coincidence similar to the aforementioned one (but in greater scale), during late 2015, Minecraft was released for the Wii U. A Microsoft owned IP's game had made it to a rival system; wow. Around this time, and I believe more during the start of the Switch era, there was this subtle message going on when crossplay was a big topic at the moment which said "survive together", and you'd see one word within a red background, and the other over a green background. This of course was Nintendo and Microsoft letting fans know that games (mainly Minecraft) which were available in both systems featured crossplay. In addition to this, Microsoft has allowed for other of its IPs to be on the Switch (namely Banjo-Kazooie via Smash, and Cuphead). Now, the coincidence here that Ubisoft shares with Microsoft is that around late 2014 was the time when the pitch for the Mario + Rabbids game was made to Nintendo. Not long after that Davide's team was given the OK by Miyamoto and Nintendo and started working on the game as early as 2015. Sure, it's a crossover with the Raving Rabbids IP but, this IP originated from Rayman. Again, the close collaboration between partners is always a big deal, and collaboration "bundles" can be expected as a result.

Something I'd like to know; was it just me or did anyone else find the inclusion of Sukapon as an Assist Trophy to be the weirdest one of all, and at the same time very curious that it was used for Rayman's spirit battle?

Actually, yeah let's talk about that last bit for a sec. Of all the possibilities for a new assist trophy... Sukapon?? That's out there, even for Sakurai.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Actually, yeah let's talk about that last bit for a sec. Of all the possibilities for a new assist trophy... Sukapon?? That's out there, even for Sakurai.

Not really. Sukapon was actually considered to be an Item in Melee (yes, an item) but was scrapped because of "adult reasons".

Even then, he was a Sticker in Brawl, and characters that have minor representation sometimes jump into ATs (Akira and Zero became ATs after beign Miis in Smash 4)

If you wanna go obscure, the Color TV Game 15 is more out there if im honest. (that or Sakurai wanted an excuse to put Pong as an AT)

 

[YsDisciple]

Y'all gotta admit though, fair enough that Sukapon perhaps may not have been entirely out of the blue (forgot it even had a sticker in Brawl) but, the fact that it was turned into an Assist Trophy, and conveniently featured in Rayman's spirit battle because of course it's another limbless character... it's a neat coincidence. Nonetheless, this little bit is only a small piece in contrast to the point's in favor of Rayman that have been mentioned in previous posts. Dang... Fall announcement feels kinda far now.

 

[mariofan48]

Point is that unlike Rayman, Banjo isn't a literal who character to Japan, and the series found moderate success in the region. He's comparable to Crash if anyone in current speculation.

I already said it shouldn't be relevant anyway, as Rayman has very good odds even without Japan's support, but we shouldn't ignore the facts as they are.

Actually, I don't think Rayman is a "literally who" character in Japan either. I remember back in the Smash 4 days that the ArtsyOmni leak brought a lot of attention to him in the region, and that some Japanese players were even disappointed after they found out it was fake. So I'd say he probably has a fair bit more recognition there now.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Actually, I don't think Rayman is a "literally who" character in Japan either. I remember back in the Smash 4 days that the ArtsyOmni leak brought a lot of attention to him in the region, and that some Japanese players were even disappointed after they found out it was fake. So I'd say he probably has a fair bit more recognition there now.

I don't want to discredit this, as there probably is a very small amount of Japanese Rayman fans in Japan.

But to say that the numbers are anywhere near comparable to Banjo is just... well.. wrong. It fails to understand why Banjo's inclusion is special, and it's the whole reason I'm debating this to begin with.

The Sourcegaming article only features 2 comments, (3 if you count the "bad news" one that delivers the information) expressing disappointment for the leak being fake. Meanwhile the same article also features like 10 other messages expressing disinterest. What we saw picked here was most definitely a small sample size, and the author just picked the ones that stood out most to him, as after he posted all the comments he quotes that:

Most of the Japanese tweets that I’ve seen about the fake video are either about Artsy Omni’s ドヤ顔 (his self-satisfied face) or just a simple, ‘it’s fake.’

Implying that there were not that many sad comments, and what he showed in the article was cherry-picked as he found interesting.

So no, I don't think that these two/three people expressing sadness over the leak being fake means that all of Japan suddenly likes Rayman, nor do I think it should be used as a basis of comparison to the HUNDRED THOUSANDS of Japanese Banjo fans. That's it.

Hope you understand, cause I don't feel good talking the negative points about Rayman in the Rayman Thread any longer.

I just think it's our jobs as speculators to fairly deduce the merits and weaknesses of who we are speculating for to increase our credibility. Don't you think it's annoying when say... Crash fan's counter to any argument it "Crash is popular so he's in" so let's not be the same and pretend Rayman's lacking areas don't exist either.

And if you've been following me at all on this thread you should know that while I believe all of this above, I don't think that's going to stop Rayman's momentum. Rayman has enough going for him to where Japanese popularity is a non-issue, so from that angle you should be able to see that I'm already more reasonable than most speculators.

I'm sorry for going on a tangent. Feel free to disagree or whatever, I just don't want the character I love and support to be misrepresented out there.

 

[mariofan48]

Rayman 1 speedrun starting at SGDQ right now: https://www.twitch.tv/gamesdonequick

Figured ya'all might be interested in it, but by the time you all probably see this it will probably have ended already.

 

[G-Star]

I don't want to discredit this, as there probably is a very small amount of Japanese Rayman fans in Japan.

But to say that the numbers are anywhere near comparable to Banjo is just... well.. wrong. It fails to understand why Banjo's inclusion is special, and it's the whole reason I'm debating this to begin with.

The Sourcegaming article only features 2 comments, (3 if you count the "bad news" one that delivers the information) expressing disappointment for the leak being fake. Meanwhile the same article also features like 10 other messages expressing disinterest. What we saw picked here was most definitely a small sample size, and the author just picked the ones that stood out most to him, as after he posted all the comments he quotes that:



Implying that there were not that many sad comments, and what he showed in the article was cherry-picked as he found interesting.

So no, I don't think that these two/three people expressing sadness over the leak being fake means that all of Japan suddenly likes Rayman, nor do I think it should be used as a basis of comparison to the HUNDRED THOUSANDS of Japanese Banjo fans. That's it.

Hope you understand, cause I don't feel good talking the negative points about Rayman in the Rayman Thread any longer.

I just think it's our jobs as speculators to fairly deduce the merits and weaknesses of who we are speculating for to increase our credibility. Don't you think it's annoying when say... Crash fan's counter to any argument it "Crash is popular so he's in" so let's not be the same and pretend Rayman's lacking areas don't exist either.

And if you've been following me at all on this thread you should know that while I believe all of this above, I don't think that's going to stop Rayman's momentum. Rayman has enough going for him to where Japanese popularity is a non-issue, so from that angle you should be able to see that I'm already more reasonable than most speculators.

I'm sorry for going on a tangent. Feel free to disagree or whatever, I just don't want the character I love and support to be misrepresented out there.

I just realized that the Japn argument got debunked during Terry's presentation.

 

[ivanlerma]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

CJ made a new smash chat video solely focusing on the "Rapper Mario" leak, not gonna say anything about this one if you want to view video by yourself,
what do guys think?

 

[mariofan48]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

CJ made a new smash chat video solely focusing on the "Rapper Mario" leak, not gonna say anything about this one if you want to view video by yourself,
what do guys think?

There's so many 'leaks' nowadays that I really just don't care about any of them. Just a bunch of different people shouting at the wall.

 

[IzukuXYang4Life]

There's so many 'leaks' nowadays that I really just don't care about any of them. Just a bunch of different people shouting at the wall.

This actually sounds interesting.

And somewhat plausible given he did say Dante and Monster Hunter are coming as costumes.

And Oh Boy!! I do hope it's Pheonix Wright!!!

That would be awesome and a really good way to end the pass (Cause hey, it's another non sword fighter who doesn't come from A JRPG game).

And I do hope it's real and that A Zelda character is getting added.

I have been begging for a new Zelda rep that's not a clone of Link Or Captain Falcon Or Zelda since the days of Smash 4!

That would be even more neat. As well as a nice apology from Sakurai for adding in so much garbage I didn't ask for.

And as far content dropping randomly in Smash.

I do hope they take the Street Fighter 5 approach and drop in more characters at random like Dixie Kong, Bandanna Waddle Dee, Or Porky From Earthbound.

Though what I really want to see them do is throw in more old single player modes like Break The Targets, Smash Run, And Board The Platforms.


Regardless of what you all say. I do hope this leak is 100% true.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Sakurai has said at least 3 times that #11 will be the end of content drops for Ultimate and this """leak""" insists there's more afterward.

It's fake, dudes. Predicting Dante as a Mii isn't anything special when we've had several 4chan predictions that got something right but everything else wrong. Just throw it out with the rest.

 

[mariofan48]

Sakurai has said at least 3 times that #11 will be the end of content drops for Ultimate and this """leak""" insists there's more afterward.

It's fake, dudes. Predicting Dante as a Mii isn't anything special when we've had several 4chan predictions that got something right but everything else wrong. Just throw it out with the rest.

I hope it is fake for the sake of Rayman being the final character. But yeah, Sakurai did say that challenger pack 11 will be the last one, so I definitely think this one is fake.

Still hoping that our boy Rayman takes the final slot.

 

[IzukuXYang4Life]

Sakurai has said at least 3 times that #11 will be the end of content drops for Ultimate and this """leak""" insists there's more afterward.

It's fake, dudes. Predicting Dante as a Mii isn't anything special when we've had several 4chan predictions that got something right but everything else wrong. Just throw it out with the rest.

Regardless.

I just hope Phoenix Wright is the final character.

Just please let it be someone who's not a sword fighter or JRPG rep.

That's all I ask.

 

[Eldrake]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

CJ made a new smash chat video solely focusing on the "Rapper Mario" leak, not gonna say anything about this one if you want to view video by yourself,
what do guys think?

It's fake. Anything that reads like it's written by a nintendo executive is fake.

 

[TAnimal]

Let’s be clear after Kazuya reveal its now obvious that NOBODY knows what is in Fighter’s Vol 2 because Nobody predicted (or knew) Kazuya being playable nor Tekken and the Mii Costumes of getting any Content

 

[ivanlerma]

Man, you guys just swept the leak away without giving it some thought.

Except you, IXY(Even if you seem more excited then upset)

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Man, you guys just swept the leak away without giving it some thought.

Except you, IXY(Even if you seem more excited then upset)

I did give it some thought. It's still absolutely fake.

"CP9 will please east and west but some people will be angry about them."

I feel like that's literally every DLC fighter we've had so far to some extent.

And then there's "Third-Party series already represented in Smash which people expected to get more content in the base game" which is the whole basis of the Loose End/Second Chance Theory we've been following up until now since Sephiroth. So that's not even like a weird prediction either. They were probably thinking about Eggman or something as he gained a boost in popularity around that time because of Sephy, and he checks all the marks, as Sonic base game content was heavily speculated cause of beliefs that Shadow would be an echo.

The vagueness doesn't help either. If you know who the character is then you say it. None of this "Guess who" doodoo. Why would they also know over a year's worth of the plans for characters when not a single character has leaked since Terry.

 

[mariofan48]

If "Third-Party series already represented in Smash which people expected to get more content in the base game" was in the leak that could also apply to Rayman as well

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Plus, Phoenix Wright is already in the game, what are they on about?