Rayman Revolution

[ZoroCarlos]

I cannot help but laugh when people start talking about the next game... as if we are, in any way, going to just continue to build upon the current roster (or even have it anywhere similar, with just a few cuts). The next game either needs to continue with 'everyone is here,' (which seems unlikely to me), or just reset.

I didn't really say anything one way or the other besides saying Shantae could be in it, so I don't see how this is relevant.

Let’s remember that the consistency of Loose End Theory is that the Content of the Represented Company is focused on Unfinished Representation that is added later on as proven by

• Kazuya with Tekken
• Sephiroth with Final Fantasy 7
• Pyra/Mythra with Xenoblade 2
• Min Min with Arms
• Byleth with Fire Emblem
• Minecraft with Microsoft

and to top it off Ubisoft has been strongly campaigning for Rayman to the point of having Rayman and Globox and Barbara being Trophy’s in Smash 4 yet in Smash Ultimate has only a Spirit. Koei hasn’t been campaigning for anything regarding Koei-Tecmo ip, so it’s basically a matter of who requested for what. Of course it’s possible that we could still have Hayabusa as the Final Fighter, but it’s more likely that because of the limited amount of Content we have of Ubisoft with 1-Fully owned Ubisoft Spirit and 3-Nintendo/Ubisoft Spirits (ie. Mario + Rabbids) that favors Ubisoft with Loose End Theory whereas mentioned before that Koei has 2-Spirits and an Assist Trophy which if we measure the amount between the 2 we’d be over saturated with Koei content (which granted wouldn’t be bad as Ninja Gaiden has a Special History with Nintendo just like Rayman), you could also say that having 2-Ubisoft Mii Costumes is as big of over saturation of content as Koei’s however let’s also remember that Fire Emblem Three Houses is technically a Koei-Tecmo representation as the Music is a Very Key point of measurement for DLC Content.

However with all of that being said let’s wait till the Kazuya Presentation and find out what the Outcome brings for possibilities

Well to be fair if Hayabusa had made it you could argue for him fitting Loose End. Considering Koei Tecmo has had content in the game since Smash 4, just like Rayman, as well as extra content down the DLC line like Hyrule Warriors Spirits. There's also Vergeben saying back at release that Koei Tecmo was in talks with Nintendo so it definitely fits our timeframe if Steve and Sephiroth are anything to go by.

Otherwise, yeah. Hayabusa hasn't been as campaigned or pushed by their company when it comes to Smash and Rayman has more suspicious movement going on right now with the two mii costumes.

 

[mariofan48]

I cannot help but laugh when people start talking about the next game... as if we are, in any way, going to just continue to build upon the current roster (or even have it anywhere similar, with just a few cuts). The next game either needs to continue with 'everyone is here,' (which seems unlikely to me), or just reset.

I would be totally fine with them never releasing a new Smash game ever again and taking a year or so off after pass 2 ends and then come back and just add more characters.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Well I thought speculation was better with the Mii Costumes out of the way but we still have the very narrow minded "lol Rayman flopped in Japan" to deal with.

How many times does Sakurai have to break the "rules" before people stop treating them as absolute?

 

[mariofan48]

Well I thought speculation was better with the Mii Costumes out of the way but we still have the very narrow minded "lol Rayman flopped in Japan" to deal with.

How many times does Sakurai have to break the "rules" before people stop treating them as absolute?

With how much Rayman has going for him, you'd think that they'd try to find some other way to 'deconfirm' him but they always regurgitate the same old tired argumets.

I'd like to see anyone come up with a legit point against Rayman that isn't just "not popular in Japan bye"

Also, where have they been saying this?

 

[ZoroCarlos]

The line of thinking should be less of "He's not popular in Japan, therefore never happening." and more "He's not a popular pick in Japan, so I'm rooting for him so he breaks status quo."

People should word their arguments less negatively.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Well I thought speculation was better with the Mii Costumes out of the way but we still have the very narrow minded "lol Rayman flopped in Japan" to deal with.

How many times does Sakurai have to break the "rules" before people stop treating them as absolute?

Sometimes it seems like Rayman is the one character where detractors have moved the goal post the most

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Sometimes it seems like Rayman is the one character where detractors have moved the goal post the most

If Rayman gets in I'm going to make a meme out of the anchor throwing competition scene from Spongebob, but every time the guy gets crushed it's a new rule broken by a new character (the anchors) and then Rayman's the last one that chases him for a bit as "Not popular in Japan"

I'm trademarking this, don't steal.

 

[AnAmusingFellow]

One thing that actually worries me is that ya know how Kazuya got in despite Heihachi's Mii costume returning a year earlier? That also means we could potentially get an Assassin's Creed character instead of Rayman despite the Altair Mii costume. Granted I still think Rayman is the most likely Ubisoft character if we do get one but Kazuya did also put Ezio (and every other assassin besides Altair) back on the table, just something I'd keep an eye on.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

One thing that actually worries me is that ya know how Kazuya got in despite Heihachi's Mii costume returning a year earlier? That also means we could potentially get an Assassin's Creed character instead of Rayman despite the Altair Mii costume. Granted I still think Rayman is the most likely Ubisoft character if we do get one but Kazuya did also put Ezio (and every other assassin besides Altair) back on the table, just something I'd keep an eye on.

Don't worry about it too much cause:

1. Rayman's the character that Ubisoft has pushed and the Smash fanbase wants most. So unless Nintendo is being picky there should be no issue there.
2. Having three gritty pretty boys in the same DLC pass sounds a little too redundant.
3. Even if Ezio got in that's still a big deal because it basically guarantees us Rayman the next time around, since Ubisoft's now aboard on the ship. At least Ezio is a cool character to have while we wait for him.

 

[AnAmusingFellow]

Don't worry about it too much cause:

1. Rayman's the character that Ubisoft has pushed and the Smash fanbase wants most. So unless Nintendo is being picky there should be no issue there.
2. Having three gritty pretty boys in the same DLC pass sounds a little too redundant.
3. Even if Ezio got in that's still a big deal because it basically guarantees us Rayman the next time around, since Ubisoft's now aboard on the ship. At least Ezio is a cool character to have while we wait for him.

I mean don't forget that the first Fighters Pass had three JRPG characters. And Sephiroth was chosen over Geno despite the latter's huge fan demand, so it doesn't mean the most requested character from the company would automatically be the one that's chosen, even if they do get considered.

Then again I feel like Ubisoft are more okay with Rayman being in Smash than Square Enix are with Geno and Ubisoft have talked about wanting Rayman to get in before like you said, so I still think Rayman is more likely than Ezio personally. Just don't wanna ignore the possibility of Ezio potentially being the Ubisoft character instead (if it were to happen)

 

[ZoroCarlos]

I mean don't forget that the first Fighters Pass had three JRPG characters. And Sephiroth was chosen over Geno despite the latter's huge fan demand, so it doesn't mean the most requested character from the company would automatically be the one that's chosen, even if they do get considered.

Yeah it's like you said. I like Geno and would be ok with his inclusion, but the big difference between a character like Geno and Rayman is that Geno doesn't have the same push from his company. Sakurai has said he's wanted to add him, but that's Sakurai, and if Square Enix doesn't agree with the idea because they'd rather have someone else like Hero or Sephiroth, which Sakurai should still acknowledge as wins, he's not going to say no. Rayman's the character Ubisoft has pushed for years until they suddenly became radio silent over a year ago.

For comparison, when the Smash Ballot happened, Banjo was the character that Phil Spencer pushed instead of an overall more popular character like Master Chief or Steve, who they had just acquired months prior. And while we did end up getting Banjo and Steve both, they were aware of who they had to deliver on first. I can easily see a scenario where Microsoft didn't acquire Mojang and we missed out on Steve but still got Banjo in Ultimate anyway.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I didn't really say anything one way or the other besides saying Shantae could be in it, so I don't see how this is relevant.

That's a fair statement.

I would be totally fine with them never releasing a new Smash game ever again and taking a year or so off after pass 2 ends and then come back and just add more characters.

Me too. I'd prefer he just take some time, but I've voiced this to a huge extent, down to the point that everyone needs to work, at least Sakurai gets to have a once in a lifetime opportunity, to play with almost any character from the entire pantheon of the medium.

So yes.. I have about 30 most wanted characters, top tier (and about evenly split between Nintendo and Third Party... wherein I actually see most of the third party ones as more likely). Rayman would be one of the most satisfying to me, because as stated, he

• fills the Brawl third party list I had
• adds a new company
• would be the only cartoonish character this pass, only 3rd over all DLC (including Sm4sh)

Obviously in this thread, Rayman will be satisfying...but would any other character equally, or nearly equally, satisfy any of you?

 

[mariofan48]

That's a fair statement.

Me too. I'd prefer he just take some time, but I've voiced this to a huge extent, down to the point that everyone needs to work, at least Sakurai gets to have a once in a lifetime opportunity, to play with almost any character from the entire pantheon of the medium.

So yes.. I have about 30 most wanted characters, top tier (and about evenly split between Nintendo and Third Party... wherein I actually see most of the third party ones as more likely). Rayman would be one of the most satisfying to me, because as stated, he

• fills the Brawl third party list I had
• adds a new company
• would be the only cartoonish character this pass, only 3rd over all DLC (including Sm4sh)

Obviously in this thread, Rayman will be satisfying...but would any other character equally, or nearly equally, satisfy any of you?

For me personally, the only other characters I would be happy and extremely hype if they got in, would be these guys, but most of them don't feel as likely as Rayman and I feel like some have a very miniscule chance so I put all my energy mainly towards Rayman, but it's basically these characters I want and would be EXTREMELY hyped for!:

Spoiler

Master Chief:

Phoenix Wright

Lara Croft

And Arizona (I know for a fact this character is 100% never happening but I'm still gonna put her here because she would make me hype!)

 

[pupNapoleon]

For me personally, the only other characters I would be happy and extremely hype if they got in, would be these guys, but most of them don't feel as likely as Rayman and I feel like some have a very miniscule chance so I put all my energy mainly towards Rayman, but it's basically these characters I want and would be EXTREMELY hyped for!:

Spoiler

Master Chief:View attachment 320091
Phoenix Wright
View attachment 320089
Lara Croft
View attachment 320090
And Arizona (I know for a fact this character is 100% never happening but I'm still gonna put her here because she would make me hype!)
View attachment 320092

I dig that list: Lara Croft is one of the ones I most want, given her legendary status... but I only see it happening if we get more passes (again, I'm still hopeful). She is one of the ones I would say flat out deserves it.
It's funny how there are only a few handfuls of characters for which I would be over the moon excited, nowadays. Most of them are huge gaming icons, even if I have no personal connection. Like a parent to a child, I just want what I think is best for Smash.

 

[mariofan48]

I dig that list: Lara Croft is one of the ones I most want, given her legendary status... but I only see it happening if we get more passes (again, I'm still hopeful). She is one of the ones I would say flat out deserves it.
It's funny how there are only a few handfuls of characters for which I would be over the moon excited, nowadays. Most of them are huge gaming icons, even if I have no personal connection. Like a parent to a child, I just want what I think is best for Smash.

Oh yeah I'm baffled how she ain't in yet. She's actually in my top five but as of right now Rayman is my most wanted character for Smash so I will push for him and once he gets in then Master Chief will probably take the top spot for me tbh.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Oh yeah I'm baffled how she ain't in yet. She's actually in my top five but as of right now Rayman is my most wanted character for Smash so I will push for him and once he gets in then Master Chief will probably take the top spot for me tbh.

I can agree... I fully want undoubtable icons of the medium... I can handle ones I don't know, but I prefer ones that are so known, you don't need to be a gamer to recognize them.

 

[Lionfranky]

Well I thought speculation was better with the Mii Costumes out of the way but we still have the very narrow minded "lol Rayman flopped in Japan" to deal with.

How many times does Sakurai have to break the "rules" before people stop treating them as absolute?

I know that feel... I don't know how many times I came across "Japan" argument as a Chief supporter.
If Master Chief out of all these characters suffer from this, I can't imagine how many times "Japan" argument has been thrown at Rayman...
It gets so annoying. Hopefully, one of these characters break this rule.
Ridley and Little Mac shouldn't have gotten in if Nintendo was so concerned about Japan.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The Japan argument doesn't mean much to me, anyway.
Yes, perhaps not being physically near a company does make conversation harder- granted, it isn't as if companies could have been meeting at all last year, anyway.
Yet, the Japan-focus-is-needed is just another stupid fan theory, which ultimately, have proven irrelevant in Ultimate (and really, every Smash bros).

 

[mariofan48]

I know that feel... I don't know how many times I came across "Japan" argument as a Chief supporter.
If Master Chief out of all these characters suffer from this, I can't imagine how many times "Japan" argument has been thrown at Rayman...
It gets so annoying. Hopefully, one of these characters break this rule.
Ridley and Little Mac shouldn't have gotten in if Nintendo was so concerned about Japan.

Remember that characters like Banjo and Minecraft Steve rely on conversations between Nintendo and Microsoft/Mojang, in this case.

Nintendo JP does not speak English which means that despite the language barrier there they were still willing to go through the extra effort to negotiate with MS for Banjo and Steve, and considering that Nintendo already do the same with Ubisoft to negotiate the deals on the two Mario Rabbids games and the Starfox appearence in Starlink, you'd think that they'd already be talking to Ubisoft about a Smash character.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Remember that characters like Banjo and Minecraft Steve rely on conversations between Nintendo and Microsoft/Mojang, in this case.

Nintendo JP does not speak English which means that despite the language barrier there they were still willing to go through the extra effort to negotiate wiht MS for Banjo and Steve, and considering that Nintendo already do the same with Ubisoft to negotiate the deals on the two Mario Rabbids games and the Starfox appearence in Starlink, you'd think that they'd already be talking to Ubisoft about a Smash character.

I honestly don't understand the big deal about getting a translator. I understand things can get lost in translation, but that doesn't seem like it would be a huge deal- especially since Ubisoft would likely have on staff-translators (as would Nintendo).

 

[Ed-boy]

That's a fair statement.

Me too. I'd prefer he just take some time, but I've voiced this to a huge extent, down to the point that everyone needs to work, at least Sakurai gets to have a once in a lifetime opportunity, to play with almost any character from the entire pantheon of the medium.

So yes.. I have about 30 most wanted characters, top tier (and about evenly split between Nintendo and Third Party... wherein I actually see most of the third party ones as more likely). Rayman would be one of the most satisfying to me, because as stated, he

• fills the Brawl third party list I had
• adds a new company
• would be the only cartoonish character this pass, only 3rd over all DLC (including Sm4sh)

Obviously in this thread, Rayman will be satisfying...but would any other character equally, or nearly equally, satisfy any of you?

Hey, good question. More support threads should do this...

There's loads of characters I wanna see, so for time's sake, I'll just show this thing I put together with a "Smash Wishlist" template a while back.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Hey, good question. More support threads should do this...

There's loads of characters I wanna see, so for time's sake, I'll just show this thing I put together with a "Smash Wishlist" template a while back.

View attachment 320229

Solid choices- I wish DK Jr were there instead of Funky (and in general, that people thought of him as echo opportune, given his extreme place in Video Game history).

Not a fan of Midna, but so happy to see Chibi Robo there. Too bad we don't seem to get any non-current Nintendo fighters in this DLC.

Who is the girl with the Broom? And the other with the devil wings?

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Solid choices- I wish DK Jr were there instead of Funky (and in general, that people thought of him as echo opportune, given his extreme place in Video Game history).

Not a fan of Midna, but so happy to see Chibi Robo there. Too bad we don't seem to get any non-current Nintendo fighters in this DLC.

Who is the girl with the Broom? And the other with the devil wings?

Girl with broom is Roll from Mega Man.
The other girl is Lilith from Darkstalkers, Morrigan's sister(?)

 

[Ed-boy]

I'll leave the template, as well as it's place of origin, here in case anyone else wants to use it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/972f59/super_smash_bros_ultimate_wishlist_template/

(And by the by, I specifically want Nabbit to be an echo of Villager.
It'd work really well I think, & given Villager's moveset, it makes some sense unlike Falcon-dorf. Just had to clarify for this character in particular...)

 

[ZoroCarlos]

I'll leave the template, as well as it's place of origin, here in case anyone else wants to use it.
View attachment 320242https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/972f59/super_smash_bros_ultimate_wishlist_template/

(And by the by, I specifically want Nabbit to be an echo of Villager.
It'd work really well I think, & given Villager's moveset, it makes some sense unlike Falcon-dorf. Just had to clarify for this character in particular...)

Sure, I'll bite

 

[pupNapoleon]

Sure, I'll bite

One of the few lists of wanted characters where I whole heartedly agree (though, not my most wanted, on half of them, but all on my first or second tier).
Granted, I would be annoyed to see Medusa or Frisk.

 

[mariofan48]

I'll leave the template, as well as it's place of origin, here in case anyone else wants to use it.
View attachment 320242https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/972f59/super_smash_bros_ultimate_wishlist_template/

(And by the by, I specifically want Nabbit to be an echo of Villager.
It'd work really well I think, & given Villager's moveset, it makes some sense unlike Falcon-dorf. Just had to clarify for this character in particular...)

Guess I'll take a crack at it.

Spoiler

Disclaimer: Crash is a character that I also grew up with, but the amount of people that have wanted Crash have said things like that Crash is a lock for Smash and that he's 'inevitable' like they know that he is 100% coming and if you even so much as suggest a different character other than him that you are wrong and they will argue with you about it. That kinda **** has completely turned me off of wanting to see the character in Smash so yeah just explaining why he's there. He just wouldn't be that hype for me anymore if he made it in.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Guess I'll take a crack at it.

Spoiler

Disclaimer: Crash is a character that I also grew up with, but the amount of people that have wanted Crash have said things like that Crash is a lock for Smash and that he's 'inevitable' like they know that he is 100% coming and if you even so much as suggest a different character other than him that you are wrong and they will argue with you about it. That kinda **** has completely turned me off of wanting to see the character in Smash so yeah just explaining why he's there. He just wouldn't be that hype for me anymore if he made it in. View attachment 320268

I'm sad that a community ruined such a fun character for you.

 

[mariofan48]

I'm sad that a community ruined such a fun character for you.

Yeah you can blame the "Rayman vs Crash" guys for that, even though I know they are the minority and there are a lot of cool Crash fans I just can't help it.

I still play his games and still love them, it's just in terms of Smash like I said.

 

[ivanlerma]

Guess I'll take a crack at it.

Spoiler

Disclaimer: Crash is a character that I also grew up with, but the amount of people that have wanted Crash have said things like that Crash is a lock for Smash and that he's 'inevitable' like they know that he is 100% coming and if you even so much as suggest a different character other than him that you are wrong and they will argue with you about it. That kinda **** has completely turned me off of wanting to see the character in Smash so yeah just explaining why he's there. He just wouldn't be that hype for me anymore if he made it in. View attachment 320268

I'm sorry that this happened to you, a community shouldn't have made you feel uncomfortable with a character you wish to see or would be okay to see.

On a side note, Jonsey? what's with the new get up? that render looks like he's ready for more war.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Guess I'll take a crack at it.

Spoiler

Disclaimer: Crash is a character that I also grew up with, but the amount of people that have wanted Crash have said things like that Crash is a lock for Smash and that he's 'inevitable' like they know that he is 100% coming and if you even so much as suggest a different character other than him that you are wrong and they will argue with you about it. That kinda **** has completely turned me off of wanting to see the character in Smash so yeah just explaining why he's there. He just wouldn't be that hype for me anymore if he made it in. View attachment 320268

I agree to an extent, but personally I'm not going to let that kind of energy ruin my personal feelings for a character.

Like, I've seen a few bad eggs on our side too, especially when it comes to reception to other Smash newcomers, so we're not innocent either.

If Rayman suddenly became a lock and was the center of speculation, would that turn you off from Rayman too? My guess is probably not, but I've already seen a handful of people express that kind of distaste.

All I'm saying is don't let it bother you. I'm sure that if Crash was the last character that he'd grow on you in a matter of time, simply because the annoying fans will shut up within the week after getting him.

 

[mariofan48]

I'm sorry that this happened to you, a community shouldn't have made you feel uncomfortable with a character you wish to see or would be okay to see.

On a side note, Jonsey? what's with the new get up? that render looks like he's ready for more war.

I dunno I just searched Google and picked the first Jonesy render I found.

I don't want him in because I don't play nor do I care for Fortnite, but I will say that as long as Rayman gets in too they could put him in and I wouldn't care because I'd already have Rayman and he's my most wanted so I wouldn't mind Jonesy if Ray was already in but otherwise nah.

I guess that isn't going to work now though because there's only one slot left so if Jonesy takes the final roster spot I will be PISSED.

 

[pupNapoleon]

All I'm saying is don't let it bother you. I'm sure that if Crash was the last character that he'd grow on you in a matter of time, simply because the annoying fans will shut up within the week after getting him.

I am not sure about this- I cannot see a world where I stop bashing on Fire Emblem and the weak arguments against its clear favortism.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

I am not sure about this- I cannot see a world where I stop bashing on Fire Emblem and the weak arguments against its clear favortism.

Difference being Mariofan likes Crash but doesn't want him in Smash because of fan behavior, which I think shouldn't be the case. You don't want Fire Emblem cause you seem to not like Fire Emblem, which is fine. Two completely different scenarios here.

With that said, I hope you're not going out of your way to troll FE fans who are happy for the character. They've probably heard the same crap against Byleth like a thousand times. Not that those criticisms are wrong, but give it a break. There's nothing that can be done and it's not like it was because of them that Byleth got picked. How many times have we heard "Unpopular in Japan" or "Miis deconfirm" and became frustrated by it? It's tiring. Sure, some FE fans are all smug about it (Hoes mad) but every character's fandom has dumb people, which is what I was saying before.

 

[MrMcNuts]

I am not sure about this- I cannot see a world where I stop bashing on Fire Emblem and the weak arguments against its clear favortism.

Stuff like Byleth kinda makes it more dissapointing that Rayman ain't in yet, since ya damn well know he'd generate more hype and more positive reception than a new FE rep ever could

 

[mariofan48]

So I spent a lot of today going over the 30th anniversary celebration for Sonic and as I was celebrating with other fans of Sonic, I had a panging realization...

Sega was going all out for the blue boy, and it just made it sting so much harder remembering Ubisoft's horrible treatment of their mascot on his 25th anniversary, in comparison to Sonic's 30th today, it felt like a needle had struck me when I realized it, and I just got a bit depressed about it.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

So I spent a lot of today going over the 30th anniversary celebration for Sonic and as I was celebrating with other fans of Sonic, I had a panging realization...

Sega was going all out for the blue boy, and it just made it sting so much harder remembering Ubisoft's horrible treatment of their mascot on his 25th anniversary, in comparison to Sonic's 30th today, it felt like a needle had struck me when I realized it, and I just got a bit depressed about it.

Don't beat yourself up too much, bud.
Hopefully Rayman showing up in Smash near his 26th anniversary will correct that?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Would any of you prefer a Rayman preMiium to no Rayman at all?
I don't know where I stand on this question. (Obviously, we want the actual character).

 

[ivanlerma]

Would any of you prefer a Rayman preMiium to no Rayman at all?
I don't know where I stand on this question. (Obviously, we want the actual character).

The Character Honestly

 

[ZoroCarlos]

I want the character, but I'd rather get the Mii over nothing, you know?
I'm hoping we survive Kazuya's wave. But if #11 isn't Rayman and there's no FP3 in sight then I have to root for his costume to show up in that final wave.