Rationing Technical Skill

[Brookman]

Why ration my tech skill when I can just improve my endurance and practice consistency through selectivity??

 

[KishPrime]

I don't know that I have a complete "theory" for everyone. Nothing is one-size-fits-all when it comes to brain science. There are a myriad of factors going on here.

You've got some players who say they never tire out during a tournament. There are a few possibilities for this:
1. They have abnormal amounts of stamina and energy that a tournament does not come close to pushing. People who literally play for hours a day may indeed be able to boast of this. It's just like training for a marathon - you can do it, you just have to train for it. Some can do this, others can't. No one's exactly making a living from Smash.
2. They are not pushing themselves hard enough during tournament play, sticking to what they are comfortable with instead of trying to push themselves to their absolute limits. There can be good reasons for doing this as well...sometimes pushing your limits can have negative consequences.
3. Their average technical comfort level is already extremely high, leading to little energy loss when they have to push it to perfection.
4. They play characters and/or styles that are simply not pushing the human technical limit most of the time.
5. Some combination of the above.

You have some players who feel that they play better given a lack of sleep. I've felt this feeling, too. A few possibilities for this:
1. The first thing to go when one loses sleep is not base function but creativity. I suppose it is theoretically possible that creativity may hamper some people, and removing options may simplify the technical game.
2. When operating at these speeds, there could be mental hangups already referenced - confidence issues, self-awareness, pressure - that might actually be less noticed or shut off entirely while the higher brain functions are weakened.
3. Lack of sleep does impair judgment. Most of you will laugh this off, but you might not be playing as well as you think you are. You might be playing ridiculously well technically, but perhaps your decision-making/strategy has gotten worse and can be abused by a better player. Players who know you as a normally sound decision-maker may never make the adjustment and you might steal some wins without them realizing it (the Sirlin "beginner's luck" example applied in a different way).

All of these are just guesses, and I wouldn't even try to tell anyone which is their answer. It's interesting to hear how others think about this. It would be fascinating to do a study about purposely impairing higher brain functions to see if it helped raw tech skill...but I'm not sure how that would work.

I know that I myself did ration energy, especially in the last year of my "career." Once I got into my master's program, working full-time, engaged, and all my friends moved away, yeah, I didn't get to keep up the same stamina I used to have. At the same time, that point happened to be the point when I played the best and scored my only regional tournament win and multiple money placings in teams at national/MLG tournaments. I noticed that I'd have an extra sense of when I needed to switch my play up a gear and when I needed to coast to conserve my lack of stamina, and it worked for me. Sure I misjudged situations, and I've referenced them already. No different than any other gameplay mistake.

Energy/Stamina is only one small piece of the equation in competition and I hope no one is thinking that I'm saying this is the only important piece, but I think it is relevant and significant. After all, every ounce of energy that you can expend over your opponent gives you that much more of an advantage. I do believe that it is a fact that pushing your technical limits as a player (even to frame-perfection at times) is one of the most mentally stressful activities that you can do because this game goes so close to human reaction/processing limits. I also believe that a solid majority of players (not all, but most) do not have the stamina to make it through an entire tournament while pushing these limits. The fact is, you see it across the board in all kinds of games and sports - when crunch time hits, players "turn it up," "get serious," take your pick. I think that every one of us could recall a last-stock domination by a player who you can tell just decided to win and had the mental composure to take control in that way. The fact that players do this suggests that some do tend to try to conserve energy until it is absolutely needed. It's partly human nature.

It's great if you can go through a tournament at MAXIMUM POWER with no stamina issues, but I just have to think that this is a very rare trait only held by those players who are training for the marathon. I think that it is also possible that some of these players are perhaps cheating themselves of the opportunity to access another gear when it is needed. However, I'm open to being completely wrong as well, and as I've already said, these are just my opinions and I'm not suggesting that they be applied to anyone in particular.

 

[Brookman]

Yo, I got you thinking huh?? dam, look at that post. it's huge

 

[Rubyiris]

I think it was a combination of posts throughout the thread, since he addressed my questions too.

 

[Myztek]

If mental and physical state are good, then I don't think tech skill needs to be rationed. I've been playing Melee for about 3-9 hours almost every day for the past month, and the only time I notice an inability to perform the way I'd like to is when I become fatigued/tired and need sleep. And the decline in performance is usually with my decision making.

I find it important to force yourself to do things that you're not comfortable with in matches (specifically friendlies), because, even if you screw it up repeatedly, the next time/day you play, it will be infinitely easier to do these "things."

The only time my technical ability takes a huge hit is when I become nervous, anxious, or if I think about the action I'm performing in the game. For instance, when I drill shine someone against a wall with Fox, it feels easy UNLESS I think about getting it right.

I don't know if anyone else has every experience this, but have you ever been walking up stairs (not looking at your feet) and tried to think about every step your taking and where your foot will go next? For me, it causes me to feel off-balance and I begin to second guess my positioning on the stairs. I've fumbled a bit when doing this. Even if that hasn't happened to you, maybe something similar has. It's the same in Smash. If you think about something step-by-step as you're doing it, it usually results in a fumble. The only time you should think about something step-by-step is when you're learning it. Once it's been learned, trust your body to do it.

I kinda went on a tangent there, but I believe it has a lot to do with technical feats. It may also explain Rubyiris. Maybe, when not tired, he thinks too much about the actions he's performing as he's performing them rather than trusting himself to do the things he's already practiced and has the ability to do.

 

[Deleted member]

You've got some players who say they never tire out during a tournament. There are a few possibilities for this:
1. They have abnormal amounts of stamina and energy that a tournament does not come close to pushing. People who literally play for hours a day may indeed be able to boast of this. It's just like training for a marathon - you can do it, you just have to train for it. Some can do this, others can't. No one's exactly making a living from Smash.
2. They are not pushing themselves hard enough during tournament play, sticking to what they are comfortable with instead of trying to push themselves to their absolute limits. There can be good reasons for doing this as well...sometimes pushing your limits can have negative consequences.
3. Their average technical comfort level is already extremely high, leading to little energy loss when they have to push it to perfection.
4. They play characters and/or styles that are simply not pushing the human technical limit most of the time.
5. Some combination of the above.

You have some players who feel that they play better given a lack of sleep. I've felt this feeling, too. A few possibilities for this:
1. The first thing to go when one loses sleep is not base function but creativity. I suppose it is theoretically possible that creativity may hamper some people, and removing options may simplify the technical game.
2. When operating at these speeds, there could be mental hangups already referenced - confidence issues, self-awareness, pressure - that might actually be less noticed or shut off entirely while the higher brain functions are weakened.
3. Lack of sleep does impair judgment. Most of you will laugh this off, but you might not be playing as well as you think you are. You might be playing ridiculously well technically, but perhaps your decision-making/strategy has gotten worse and can be abused by a better player. Players who know you as a normally sound decision-maker may never make the adjustment and you might steal some wins without them realizing it (the Sirlin "beginner's luck" example applied in a different way).

All of these are just guesses, and I wouldn't even try to tell anyone which is their answer. It's interesting to hear how others think about this. It would be fascinating to do a study about purposely impairing higher brain functions to see if it helped raw tech skill...but I'm not sure how that would work.

Oh, maybe you can analyze my story then?

I started going to tournaments near the end of 2003. I played a VERY heavy technical fox style and found myself wearing out in tournaments quite quickly (3-4 rounds in maybe) which was decent back in the day when you basically only played 7-8 rounds to win a tournament. I was talking to NEO at Smash 4 Cash in late June, 2004 NYC and we were exchanging theories about how to best spend the "human resource" for tournament practicality, and I think we figured out the ideal formula. I spent the rest of my smash career playing to this blossomed style, and it mixes some of the elements that you have above. The first thing we noted was this:

1. The first thing to go when one loses sleep is not base function but creativity. I suppose it is theoretically possible that creativity may hamper some people, and removing options may simplify the technical game.

The first conclusion we came to is that if we can play more relaxed and perform better, there must be some merit to playing a more relaxed style. It's not so much a focus of "how much" with tech skill, it's how you focus it. The end result is basically this:

2. They are not pushing themselves hard enough during tournament play, sticking to what they are comfortable with instead of trying to push themselves to their absolute limits. There can be good reasons for doing this as well...sometimes pushing your limits can have negative consequences.

But it's not a matter of over-extending so much as redirection. Consider what I posted prior, where the pinnacle of technical ability is spacing, timing, and proper mobility (accuracy and precision). The best part of these concepts isn't that they're the best utility of tech skill, but rather that they aren't mentally taxing in any way.

Generally, I tell other fox/falco players something to this effect. On that note, you should never conserve your ability in any way, you will just make it easier on yourself in the long run. Here's a video reference to what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Ibt7ikiBk

Despite what are now considered obvious errors. This is exactly how the best fox play SHOULD look. Notice the lack of nair. The only approaches are dash attack, grab, and upsmash. Lasers are peppered sparingly with single SHL and a fastfall and unpunishable distance. Combos are simple, reliable, and yet still fairly devastating.

edit: I was able to live on my own in an apartment solely on smash winnings between my graduation from high school (june 2005) until I moved away for college (august 2006). So it's possible.

 

[KishPrime]

I don't know what you want me to analyze. I basically said the same thing - develop an efficient style that is low-intensity on tech skill and save high-intensity tech skill (which does have it's place in some matchups) for when it's necessary. You just defined what kind of style you should aim for - something with an emphasis on spacing, timing, and mobility. Frankly, that's what Ken and Azen always did with Marth, too, and it worked well enough for them.

I always asked Jeff why he was charging someone with Fox. I was just like "why aren't you just lasering and making everyone come at you?"

Now I have nothing to do but sit here and be envious of Myztek's 3-9 hours of Smash per day. I'm sure you don't get tired at tournaments very often.

 

[CableCho57]

I think this is why a fox main has never been indisputably to best play player. that consistent tech skill needed along with the fact a fox is the character everyone knows how to combo/play against. even when m2k had that short reign (between ken and mango era) he picked up a sheik and marth.

 

[KishPrime]

So I actually spoke with a rare sleep scientist/professor today, and she agreed with my theory about the disabling of higher brain functions while tired enhancing technical skill, and said there is a small amount of evidence to suggest that.

However, she more or less noted that she would never recommend it, and that you can train yourself to filter your thinking to have the same effect without losing the advantages you'd get from a good night's sleep. Chronic sleep deprivation would go back to having an adverse effect on your tech skill.

 

[AOB]

Tim. You talked to a scientist about smash?

 

[Dark Hart]

What has science doooooooone??????

 

[KishPrime]

I did indeed.

 

[Xyzz]

I did indeed.

In the "Let's suppose I know a guy, who knows a guy, who..." - way? Or did you straight up say sth along the lines of "sup, there is that video game, it's pretty AWEEESOME, but I'd really love to know about the effects sleep deprivation has on it"? :D

 

[Wobbles]

And then I wrote a fanfiction in my head regarding Kish and a sexy female scientist who has an extreme fondness for the Nintendo franchise and all related games.

It was pretty good. You guys should read it some time.

 

[Beat!]

I don't have access to your head.

 

[The Star King]

I do. Step it up, Beat!

 

[Beat!]

But... I live on the other side of a huge ocean... ;_;

 

[Strong Badam]

No johns .

 

[Beat!]

I totally predicted that someone would say that.

 

[Strong Badam]

You didn't have the tech skill to punish

 

[Beat!]

No, I was like, "you're gonna roll"

And then I spent the following seconds feeling good because I read you, instead of punishing

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Analyze other sports and transfer over what seems similar to melee. Most of this echos from what physical sports have been covering for years. Proper sleep generally seems to help. Consistency issues comes from other playing while resolving to a method of pacing yourself. Etc.

 

[KAOSTAR]

So I actually spoke with a rare sleep scientist/professor today, and she agreed with my theory about the disabling of higher brain functions while tired enhancing technical skill, and said there is a small amount of evidence to suggest that.

However, she more or less noted that she would never recommend it, and that you can train yourself to filter your thinking to have the same effect without losing the advantages you'd get from a good night's sleep. Chronic sleep deprivation would go back to having an adverse effect on your tech skill.

I swear on my life that after playing for like 6hours and when it hits like 3-5 am my tech skill is super on point lolool....as long as my hands were fresh and not fatigued prior to the session.

Its settled this must be 100% true

 

[KishPrime]

I like it as a theory. We've got a sleep doctor (the difference being that he doesn't really do research on it) that floats around here for some of our programs, so I'll run it by him, too, if I have a chance.

One of the many advantages of working at a university is the number of "experts" floating around. They just float.