Zeron
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2007
- Messages
- 101
I main the Falco that you see in the vid, though I am curious how my brother's Zelda is doing.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=twP2-yTCNaw
http://youtube.com/watch?v=twP2-yTCNaw
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Rate this Zelda
- Thread starter Zeron
- Start date
HideousBeing
Smash Ace
I'm sorry to say, that's real weak Zelda. Normally, I can give little tips and advice, but in this case, I can't tell you how to play. Your bro is just too slow for Zelda. Zelda is supposed to be as fast as you can make her. He needs to DD more, but I noticed that his DDing is very slow. He is clearly just learning to WD, so that explains his current needs improvement stage. Yeah, he needs to do a lot more WDing, DDing, wavelanding, and mixing them all up for a faster, speedier Zelda.
He seems too hesitant too. Zelda should keep the pressure on Falco when she can, not sit back and take her chances.
As for yourself, you should have ***** him. Falco pwns Zelda, and I'm guessing an inexperienced understanding of her moveset or perhaps the metagame is responsible for your loss. Though I don't play Falco, I've seen plenty Falcos play, and I can tell you that you need to be more harrassing. Keep your distance with SHlasers and wear her down.
...**** he makes Zelda look sluggish. Tell him to keep it up.
He seems too hesitant too. Zelda should keep the pressure on Falco when she can, not sit back and take her chances.
As for yourself, you should have ***** him. Falco pwns Zelda, and I'm guessing an inexperienced understanding of her moveset or perhaps the metagame is responsible for your loss. Though I don't play Falco, I've seen plenty Falcos play, and I can tell you that you need to be more harrassing. Keep your distance with SHlasers and wear her down.
...**** he makes Zelda look sluggish. Tell him to keep it up.
Zone
Smash Champion
My advice to the falco player. If the zelda can't powershield, Lazer camp more. Force her to come to you, and out run her aerials or even go for a shield grab.
As a Zelda player I get most of my hits by trying to overprioritize their moves, whether it's with spacing or just plain better priority.
don't always go for L-cancel to shine. If you feel your out of range, L-cancel into a Jab or Grab, unless you can pillar then just do that. My friend likes to downthrow my Zelda and tech chase with a lazer to grab, or if I stay in place more aerials.
For the Zelda, you need better accuracy, Spacing, Jab those dash attacks, Uptilt those double jump down airs, Lcancel your foot into SOMETHING other than shield or roll.
Other than that the falco picked up a bit more. At first glance at the first few seconds I thought I was in for a supreme newb match. But atlast it wasn't too horrid lol. Your brother needs alot of work, let him experiment in fights with you.
Work on Spacing, Accuracy, Shffls, i suggest powershielding, and more wavedashing to outrun falco's moves so you can counter with a smash or kick.
*Edit* I saw a few points btw where you coulda combo's zelda if you didn't wavedash out of shine, but instead just double jumped out of it.
As a Zelda player I get most of my hits by trying to overprioritize their moves, whether it's with spacing or just plain better priority.
don't always go for L-cancel to shine. If you feel your out of range, L-cancel into a Jab or Grab, unless you can pillar then just do that. My friend likes to downthrow my Zelda and tech chase with a lazer to grab, or if I stay in place more aerials.
For the Zelda, you need better accuracy, Spacing, Jab those dash attacks, Uptilt those double jump down airs, Lcancel your foot into SOMETHING other than shield or roll.
Other than that the falco picked up a bit more. At first glance at the first few seconds I thought I was in for a supreme newb match. But atlast it wasn't too horrid lol. Your brother needs alot of work, let him experiment in fights with you.
Work on Spacing, Accuracy, Shffls, i suggest powershielding, and more wavedashing to outrun falco's moves so you can counter with a smash or kick.
*Edit* I saw a few points btw where you coulda combo's zelda if you didn't wavedash out of shine, but instead just double jumped out of it.
Darkmusician
Smash Master
Hmmm....Green Zelda. <3
Now then, here's some tips for Zelda. :3
1-Try not to end up below the edge of the stage too much. Esspecially on stages like Pokemon Stadium, Battle Field and FD. It just makes it harder for you to recover and easier for your opponent to spike you or worse....edgehog you. T_T
2-Don't be afriad to use more than 3-4 moves. Use 5-6 XD Nah nah seriously, experiment. Some moves I'd reccomend you use more (although u did use some) are neutral B, side B, grabs and throws, neutral A, and of course the Up Air. Upair...the REAL Dins fire. lolz The explosion is like as big as she is. XD
3-About grabs, when you knock the opponent down, you can predict how they will get up. Those are some of the best times to grab. Sometimes if they try to jab you, at low percents, you can CC it to grab. Once you grab a falco, almost all the time you want an upthrow. Sometimes you can CG and other times, you can do a little dash attack at the front of the hit box to pop um up to upsmash or uptilt or whatever you want to try. It's all improv most of the time. Of course if the falco is high on damage, back throw is good too. Zeldas grab is slow and loses to most l cancles, but with practice you will find your own way to work them in. ^^
4-Finally, the best thing to make your Zelda faster is to do more wavelanding, pulse walking and of course l cancles and short hops/fast falls. Zelda overall can't cover the whole stage quickly, but within the limitations of her wave dash and dash dance, she CAN move very quickly within those boundaries. Since Zelda gets hurt alot by faster characters, all the speed she can get helps. =w= It also adds to your mindgames, spacing and against campy characters like space animals and such, you don't want to just stand there and take shots to the face. Since most of them will force you to come to them, with lazerz, quick movements will give you more options then just CHARGE. lolz So try to keep moving as much as possible, spot dodging is okay at times, but there is a bit of lag on it, so be cautious to not over use it. Falco has alot of priority below, and parallel to him, so it's an up hill battle.
Nice color choice. Green....=w=
Keep up the good work. You did win the match afterall. lolz
Now then, here's some tips for Zelda. :3
1-Try not to end up below the edge of the stage too much. Esspecially on stages like Pokemon Stadium, Battle Field and FD. It just makes it harder for you to recover and easier for your opponent to spike you or worse....edgehog you. T_T
2-Don't be afriad to use more than 3-4 moves. Use 5-6 XD Nah nah seriously, experiment. Some moves I'd reccomend you use more (although u did use some) are neutral B, side B, grabs and throws, neutral A, and of course the Up Air. Upair...the REAL Dins fire. lolz The explosion is like as big as she is. XD
3-About grabs, when you knock the opponent down, you can predict how they will get up. Those are some of the best times to grab. Sometimes if they try to jab you, at low percents, you can CC it to grab. Once you grab a falco, almost all the time you want an upthrow. Sometimes you can CG and other times, you can do a little dash attack at the front of the hit box to pop um up to upsmash or uptilt or whatever you want to try. It's all improv most of the time. Of course if the falco is high on damage, back throw is good too. Zeldas grab is slow and loses to most l cancles, but with practice you will find your own way to work them in. ^^
4-Finally, the best thing to make your Zelda faster is to do more wavelanding, pulse walking and of course l cancles and short hops/fast falls. Zelda overall can't cover the whole stage quickly, but within the limitations of her wave dash and dash dance, she CAN move very quickly within those boundaries. Since Zelda gets hurt alot by faster characters, all the speed she can get helps. =w= It also adds to your mindgames, spacing and against campy characters like space animals and such, you don't want to just stand there and take shots to the face. Since most of them will force you to come to them, with lazerz, quick movements will give you more options then just CHARGE. lolz So try to keep moving as much as possible, spot dodging is okay at times, but there is a bit of lag on it, so be cautious to not over use it. Falco has alot of priority below, and parallel to him, so it's an up hill battle.
Nice color choice. Green....=w=
Keep up the good work. You did win the match afterall. lolz
Zeron
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2007
- Messages
- 101
It's that certain property, you know. Put a shiny rock and a dark rock of the same sizes together and the shiny rock will look bigger. Similar affect, the Zelda seems slower due to the Falco being a whole lot faster in most everything. No, he isn't just learning to wavedash. Zelda's wavedash is just too ****ing stiff to make use of. If he really is that slow, please do show me a faster Zelda.
And what? I've heard that Zelda's game is waiting and baiting, not pressure. That or smashwiki is lying. "Zelda as a character shouldn't be too offensive since alot of her moves leave her vulnerable when missed, even if L-canceled." - Smashwiki
And for me, yeah I should have. Was using a fast faller playstyle and it didn't work out so well. Just amateurs, take it easy on us.
Darkmusician
Smash Master
Waiting and baiting on space animals only works to a certain extent.
Pressure game is mainly about reading, and predicting. When they will jump into you, where they will roll after being knocked down, and how they will get recover etc. Zelda's whole game is patience and thinking though. That's the real meat of it.
Her wavedash is very useful. It beats just running around with her.
So yeah, it really depends on the match-up as there are very very few match-ups where Zelda will have a clear cut edge.
Pressure game is mainly about reading, and predicting. When they will jump into you, where they will roll after being knocked down, and how they will get recover etc. Zelda's whole game is patience and thinking though. That's the real meat of it.
Her wavedash is very useful. It beats just running around with her.
So yeah, it really depends on the match-up as there are very very few match-ups where Zelda will have a clear cut edge.
Zone
Smash Champion
While baiting is AWSOME for a zelda player. You can't really bait a stunning lazer approach, which is why I suggest learning how to powershield. If the zelda can't powershield, then I suggest finding a new way to approach. such as landing behind shielded falcos, you'll have to stay close but not too close. Like jab range. Jab falco - Neutral B - Lcanceled kicks(well spaced) into jabs or Nuetral B or tilts.It's that certain property, you know. Put a shiny rock and a dark rock of the same sizes together and the shiny rock will look bigger. Similar affect, the Zelda seems slower due to the Falco being a whole lot faster in most everything. No, he isn't just learning to wavedash. Zelda's wavedash is just too ****ing stiff to make use of. If he really is that slow, please do show me a faster Zelda.
And what? I've heard that Zelda's game is waiting and baiting, not pressure. That or smashwiki is lying. "Zelda as a character shouldn't be too offensive since alot of her moves leave her vulnerable when missed, even if L-canceled." - Smashwiki
And for me, yeah I should have. Was using a fast faller playstyle and it didn't work out so well. Just amateurs, take it easy on us.
Baiting is more for enemies that don't have range. Although you can more easily bait Samus and Peach despite range because they don't shoot as fast as a camping fox or falco.
Darkmusician
Smash Master
Well said Zone. It all comes with practice, and experimenting. Once it's comfortable to the point of second nature, really cool things happen. :]
Dictating the tempo of the match is very improtant vs space animals because they move so quick, it's very difficult to reset spacing much less keep up. Force them to play at your speed. Control is very important with Zelda since she lacks the speed, power and weight to trade hits with all of the high tiers.
Dictating the tempo of the match is very improtant vs space animals because they move so quick, it's very difficult to reset spacing much less keep up. Force them to play at your speed. Control is very important with Zelda since she lacks the speed, power and weight to trade hits with all of the high tiers.
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
I was expecting this to be an ultra-noob match too from the responses it got. While it's not that bad, you guys still need work.
Zelda:
1. Space! This is seriously the most important thing for you to learn. Just learn to be more accurate with your kicks, and with the smashes. Also, don't just charge smashes for no reason (like when your opponent isn't near you).
2. Up-smash. If you are on the ground, your opponent is in the air and close to you, and you aren't about to be pummeled by something, feel free to use this move. If he misses his lcancel or doesn't react fast enough to shine you, up-smash out of shield.
3. N-air. This move is good if you are both in the air, and he's too close to be kicked.
4. u-air. If he's above you too far for n-air to work, use this.
5. Use her other moves too. Tilts and neutral b are good for mindgames when they're too close to be kicked. D-smash is good as an edgeguard, but make sure to get closer to the edge first and time it properly (it comes out very fast for Zelda standards).
6. More dashdancing and wavedashing. Try not to stay in the shield the entire match.
Falco:
1. Seeing how your opponent can't powershield, you should laser camp the **** out of her. The most she can do to you is reflect it with her laggy reflector, which you can capitalize on, or stay in her shield all match (like she's doing), in which case you can laser -> grab at closer range.
2. Against an opponent that shields too much, don't be afraid to use more grabs.
3. Learn to pillar much more smoothly. You should be able to combo her much better with this than you have been.
4. Learn to sweetspot your recovery. You don't have to do this every time, but you shouldn't recover at a 45 degree angle every time either.. That's why you keep getting hit with f-smash at the edge.
Zelda:
1. Space! This is seriously the most important thing for you to learn. Just learn to be more accurate with your kicks, and with the smashes. Also, don't just charge smashes for no reason (like when your opponent isn't near you).
2. Up-smash. If you are on the ground, your opponent is in the air and close to you, and you aren't about to be pummeled by something, feel free to use this move. If he misses his lcancel or doesn't react fast enough to shine you, up-smash out of shield.
3. N-air. This move is good if you are both in the air, and he's too close to be kicked.
4. u-air. If he's above you too far for n-air to work, use this.
5. Use her other moves too. Tilts and neutral b are good for mindgames when they're too close to be kicked. D-smash is good as an edgeguard, but make sure to get closer to the edge first and time it properly (it comes out very fast for Zelda standards).
6. More dashdancing and wavedashing. Try not to stay in the shield the entire match.
Falco:
1. Seeing how your opponent can't powershield, you should laser camp the **** out of her. The most she can do to you is reflect it with her laggy reflector, which you can capitalize on, or stay in her shield all match (like she's doing), in which case you can laser -> grab at closer range.
2. Against an opponent that shields too much, don't be afraid to use more grabs.
3. Learn to pillar much more smoothly. You should be able to combo her much better with this than you have been.
4. Learn to sweetspot your recovery. You don't have to do this every time, but you shouldn't recover at a 45 degree angle every time either.. That's why you keep getting hit with f-smash at the edge.
Zone
Smash Champion
Why the sad face?Just goes to show how hard people critique sometimes.
You got what you asked for on a silver platter. I think the others did a swell job on critique. Just read and try out what we recommended. Then I suggest a month later worth of practice. Post this Vid again next to your new vid. Then we'll see improvement and re-critique. Or if you didn't advance at all lol
*EDIT*
Out of the Kindness of my heart I made a short like 20 second video to show you how Wavedash and Dashdancing makes for a speedy Zelda. As Soon as Youtube finishes uploading/validating it or w/e i'll post it.
2nd *EDIT*
Here you go. IF it don't work let me know. I'm trying to post it in it's unready stage lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYWpvtYRRK0
3rd *EDIT*
ANy matches you see are VERY OLD. >.>;
HideousBeing
Smash Ace
Dude, there's just too much to correct. To be quite blunt, you and your friend are not good. We are trying to help you become good, so respect that.Just goes to show how hard people critique sometimes.
Check out Zone's vid up there. ^ That's a great little show of how zelda should look. And on FD yet! It's much easier to speed her up with lots of platforms.
Nicely done Zone.
Also, search for darkatma's zelda combo video on youtube. Atma's a fast Zelda.
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
Are you referring to my post? If you are, you should see some of the critiques I've given, which are pretty harsh.Just goes to show how hard people critique sometimes.
Anyway, Zelda doesn't necessarily have to be fast. Playing against a Falco will make you appear slower if he laser camps enough. You do need to be faster though. Wavedashing, dashdancing, and lcancelling will do the trick.
Zone
Smash Champion
lol a million years ago when I first started Zelda.Are you referring to my post? If you are, you should see some of the critiques I've given, which are pretty harsh.
Anyway, Zelda doesn't necessarily have to be fast. Playing against a Falco will make you appear slower if he laser camps enough. You do need to be faster though. Wavedashing, dashdancing, and lcancelling will do the trick.
Rapid Assassin said to me to critique me was
"*Random time here* Is the exact reason why Zelda players don't use a tag."
And that was it >.>;
And I still disobey and keep the tag on haha >.>; mainly cuz I forget to take it off when switching from Fox-Marth-Jiggs or other players I like to have fun with.
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
I've said that kind of thing a lot to Zelda vids. I think that particular match, your opponent might have killed you at that exact time with a charged smash, because of the tag pointing out where you were. And you either looked good otherwise, or i was too lazy to type out a lengthy critique.
D
Deleted member
Guest
play blue
kick better
kick better
HideousBeing
Smash Ace
lol at mow