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Rate their Chances: the DLC Edition. Day: 192: The final day

BluePikmin11

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It's not meant to be harassment at all. :urg:
it's just disagreement and I find flaws within many of the points bring up.
Specifically the K. Rool designs point and the questioning of why the costume was made before the ballot ended and how those are easily counterable.
 
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Talpr1

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I want to share this again since I feel people have ignored it:

King K. Rool being a Mii costume as Sakurai's early response is a very plausible situation. Mii costumes are very easy to make and require little development resources to create, as they can be used to easily respond to fan requests early before the ballot if they don't find the character worth re-creating a full character out of.

And I also want to point out, the costume being a combination of various K. Rool designs is not a point to his inclusion, let's bring up the emphasis Sakurai has made on how he hates making low quality DLC:
And making what is easily a top 3 character in number of requests, if not the absolute first, into just a mere costume for your avatar, as high quality as it might be, isn't "DLC scam"?

Call me biased, but I can't think of any good technical reason why King K. Rool would be excluded. Multiple personas not fitting in the same moveset? Don't:4megaman:see how it is a problem. Too big? Again, don't:4bowser:see how it is a problem, it's not like he has huge wings and a long, skinny neck. Not "relevant"? How is:4feroy:this:4lucas:even:4sheik:an issue? Sakurai is a creative genius and a skilled game designer, if he can't make K. Rool work is because he doesn't want to, which, to say the least, is highly unprofessional behavior.
 

BluePikmin11

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And making what is easily a top 3 character in number of requests, if not the absolute first, into just a mere costume for your avatar, as high quality as it might be, isn't "DLC scam"?
I think he views the costume as the fan-service people look for, as bad as it might seem from a fan perspective. Miis to Sakurai are a way to play as anyone in the game (as said in E3 2014), and I think he sees the costumes as a way to further benefit fans into making that a reality.
 

LIQUID12A

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Why call it desperate? It is entirely ok to be pessimistic of his chances because of this costume. Unless you meant relevance, which at this point is only 1/5 of K. Rool's problems now.
It's more desperate searching for ways to undermine King K. Rool's actual chances than anything else that's annoying Bkupa(and most others really). I mean, you've been passively agreeing with anyone that rates King K. Rool below 30%.
 
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BluePikmin11

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It's more desperate searching for ways to undermine King K. Rool's actual chances than anything else that's annoying Bkupa(and most others really). I mean, you've been passively agreeing with anyone that rates King K. Rool below 30%.
I'm not annoying anyone with "K. Rool fans are desperate" behavior, just disagreeing and countering those points with evidence.
What I really want to know with today's rating is if you guys can counter the point that the quality DLC statement Sakurai has made that nulls the notion of the design of the costume being a hint at all.
 

WeirdChillFever

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I want to share this again since I feel people have ignored it:

King K. Rool being a Mii costume as Sakurai's early response is a very plausible situation. Mii costumes are very easy to make and require little development resources to create, as they can be used to easily respond to fan requests early before the ballot if they don't find the character worth re-creating a full character out of.

And I also want to point out, the costume being a combination of various K. Rool designs is not a point to his inclusion, let's bring up the emphasis Sakurai has made on how he hates making low quality DLC:



It's no surprise that the development team would put a lot of effort into a costume to give fans the DLC costume to its utmost high quality. He stated before that he hates low quality DLC and he wants to give fans the best product possible. With that quality in mind, I hardly find it a favor towards his inclusion, it's more of an extra polish to the fans if you asked me.


Why call it desperate? It is entirely ok to be pessimistic of his chances because of this costume. Unless you meant relevance, which at this point is only 1/5 of K. Rool's problems now.


These are just the start of the Mii costumes line-up though, I find it entirely plausible that next wave of Mii costumes could be based on popularly requested Nintendo characters, so I wouldn't write off the possibility that it could be a consolation prize. Sure there's the pre-planned Mii costumes, but I think that's a different situation of itself planned way before King K. Rool was going to be a costume.
But why then release K. Rool's costume apart?
If Mii Costumes are so easy to make and Sakurai has it all planned before the ballot ends, why just Konsolation Kostume Rool?
 

memoryman3

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But why then release K. Rool's costume apart?
If Mii Costumes are so easy to make and Sakurai has it all planned before the ballot ends, why just Konsolation Kostume Rool?
They also released the Lloyd Irving costume with it.
 

LIQUID12A

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I'm not annoying anyone.
Blue. No offense intended with what I'm going to say.

Read this quoted sentence again.

Kindly give this a reread, then look back at every post of yours with a reply on this rating day, and then look back at every single day where you have engaged in hot debate with everyone and tell me this remains true because I could very easily tell you that it isn't.
 
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BluePikmin11

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Kindly give this a reread, and look back at every post of yours with a reply on this rating day, then look back at every single day where you have engaged in hot debate with everyone and tell me this remains true because I could very easily tell you that it isn't.
I admit the passive agreeing.
But for today, I'm just want to debate a few things this time with no intention of annoying the fans, I don't want to leave out a point that I feel is flawed and just let it be.

But why then release K. Rool's costume apart?
What do you mean by this?
 
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LIQUID12A

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I admit the passive agreeing.
But for today, I'm just want to debate a few things this time with no intention of annoying the fans, I don't want to leave out a point that I feel is flawed and just let it be.
Issue.

If this is indeed the case, then you unintentionally annoy the fans with every opinion you give. What you perceive as inoffensive is liable to ticking off someone who opposes your opinion just because of the way you say it. And when the argument escalates, your ways of defending your viewpoints incur the ire of everyone who can't stand to see them and they can't believe what they see, making more people oppose you. Not so different from you not wanting to leave out a point you feel is flawed(and such a stance is incredibly subjective anyway).
 
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CaptainAmerica

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Guys, let's calm down. There's not a single rating on this page so far. If there's an argument going, that definitely makes it difficult to pick out the nominations or for Ice to get the chances out.

I know we all have different opinions, but the best thing to do is to be as thorough as possible in our rating. Yes we may not agree with each other, but we don't need to have huge back-and-forths over it. I personally don't see how the costume makes him more likely since they don't reuse models for the Mii costumes, but it's fine if people think the opposite - I hope they're right since I'd love to see K.Rool in.

Rerate Lana (Hyrule Warriors) x5
Lana's still on the cool-down list. You need to wait for her to be off before nominating her.
 
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There is one argument I see coming up quite a bit here about whether or not a Mii Costume was added before or after a character was added to the roster...

So apparently it doesn't matter having a Mii costume for a fighter that was apart of the roster before their respective outfit was added, but it does matter if they weren't added yet? Whaaa? How does this make sense? It's still a duplicate role if you want to count it as such whether or not it was added before or after makes no difference especially after the fact when DLC is all said and done, 'but I already bought a K Rool Mii costume so why should I buy the playable character?' same reason people bought Link, and Samus's costumes after both characters were already in the game....
This is yet another example of a fan-made rule, this one in particular has already been debunked by several examples already in game but the argument against it isn't even a feasible argument...

The same sort of thing with the Inklings, my guess is that the costumes were merely for promotion for the game and were quick and easy to make instead of rushing a fully fledged character, but yet a lot of folks seem to think that means Inklings won't happen for DLC at all...

The Mii's are customizable characters and can be treated as such by adding hats and costumes from various 'Nintendo-themed' elements, which already included some from the playable cast...
But veterans are (naturally) a different situation than a newcomer. The situation of a veteran and a newcomer is vastly different and the reasons honestly shouldn't need to be explained. Does it mean anything? we don't know that. but at this moment in time there is absolutely zero precedent of what mii costumes can and cannot be. If inklings became DLC we would know for a fact that mii fighter absolutely isn't deconfiriming. but at this moment it is anyone's guess.
some people chooses it as a negative and to be honest, I think it's more logical to see it as negative than positive.
 
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AncientTobacco

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What I really want to know with today's rating is if you guys can counter the point that the quality DLC statement Sakurai has made that nulls the notion of the design of the costume being a hint at all.
The statement you quoted doesn't really have anything to do with this. It was just Sakurai talking about SSB4 DLC being "authentic", that is, developed after the main game was complete.

That said, I've no doubt Sakurai wants the DLC to be of good quality; However, I think the main focus is obviously on the fighters and stages. They could've made a quality costume of K. Rool using the assets from the trophy; It's not like that was really low in graphical quality or anything. But they went the extra mile and seemingly created an entirely new model based on the Rare design. It feels odd that they would go with a design that hasn't been used since DK64 for a simple costume, when they haven't done it for the trophies. There's really no good comparison, but try imagining the same happening with another character.
 

YoshiandToad

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It's more desperate searching for ways to undermine King K. Rool's actual chances than anything else that's annoying Bkupa(and most others really). I mean, you've been passively agreeing with anyone that rates King K. Rool below 30%.
Are people seriously getting pissed at others for 'Liking' opinions they don't agree with now?
 
D

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Multiple personas not fitting in the same moveset? Don't:4megaman:see how it is a problem.
What does Mega Man have to do with multiple personas? Yes, his moveset consists of various weapons and abilities from ten different Mega Man games, but his persona has remained consistent throughout his series.

If you were referring to the other incarnations of Mega Man appearing in his Final Smash, those are all separate entities making a brief cameo. Implementing different personas that are all the same entity as a major part of K. Rool's moveset might be easier said than done. Heck, Zelda and Sheik were split due to technical limitations; K. Rool might suffer the same issue.
Too big? Again, don't:4bowser:see how it is a problem, it's not like he has huge wings and a long, skinny neck.
To be fair, K. Rool has a big gut compared to Bowser's. I'm not saying that I would agree with Sakurai's reasoning if he states that K. Rool's gut is too big for him to be playable, but I'm acknowledging the possibility of him expressing that statement.
Not "relevant"? How is:4feroy:this:4lucas:even:4sheik:an issue?
Popular veterans from past Smash Bros. iterations don't follow the same criteria as a possible newcomer. Sakurai even stated himself that he hates cuts.
 

Curious Villager

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Are people seriously getting pissed at others for 'Liking' opinions they don't agree with now?
I remember getting called out once for liking someone's post. Never thought that would ever happen..... :T

Anyway, I think we should get back to actually rating the character......
 

Aetheri

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I'm not annoying anyone with "K. Rool fans are desperate" behavior, just disagreeing and countering those points with evidence.
What I really want to know with today's rating is if you guys can counter the point that the quality DLC statement Sakurai has made that nulls the notion of the design of the costume being a hint at all.
How the heck does quality DLC have anything to do with the 'design' at all? Design is purely for aesthetics sure if it looks like crap then that's poor quality but with regards to a character's design over another it really has nothing to do with the quality of DLC...Wouldn't you think a proper playable fighter provides better quality DLC than a costume? Especially if said character is consistently topping polls all over the net...

The evidence you provide doesn't really counter anyone's arguments...considering you're ignoring the likelihood that pretty much all DLC we got thus far was pre-determined before the ballot's announcement...
But veterans are (naturally) a different situation than a newcomer. The situation of a veteran and a newcomer is vastly different and the reasons honestly shouldn't need to be explained. Does it mean anything? we don't know that. but at this moment in time there is absolutely zero precedent of what mii costumes can and cannot be. If inklings became DLC we would know for a fact that mii fighter absolutely isn't deconfiriming. but at this moment it is anyone's guess.
some people chooses it as a negative and to be honest, I think it's more logical to see it as negative than positive.
There really isn't a difference except that these veterans are already in the game...

my point is playable fighters have Mii costume variants in the game...if they were added first or if they are veterans because in hindsight once its all said and done it doesn't matter, especially when the ballot is concerned...

Do you guys really think Sakurai is going to ignore one of the most if not THE most requested character simply because, he's a amii costume?
 

Logo12

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YUSH Finally had the chance to do a full-on investigation on K Rool's chances.
Now before I get into the Mii Costume cases, let's look at those what people call advantages(or just general points) for K Rool.
Popularity
Ah, sure thing. When it comes to ballot vote(?) and related polls, K Rool is always recognized the top. Some will even go as far as calling him a lock as well. Well... that won't happen. No one is a lock. Nor will high popularity make one 99.999% in. When the ex-so-called-guaranteed guy Wolf already got a hit on Chance here, those rating K Rool 90% is just laughable for me.
Back to the main point. So is K Rool exactly the most popular? Like I mentioned days earlier, veterans are always ranked above newcomers in the Japanese Smash community. And even as I've heard, King K Rool isn't exactly a popular choice, but is recognized likely because it's popular here. When calculated worldwide, K Rool might not be the top choice. Sure, this had the Japan polls put into more weight, but point is, K Rool isn't unbeaten in popularity. He's still very high in support, that's unarguable.
To be more realistic tho. These polls only reflect what happens in the portion of Smash community who goes online and hauls their choice everywhere. Sure that could have been a big part of the community, but when it comes to a site exposed to people of any age, it's possible that the number of votes of non-video game characters have already outnumbered the popular characters mentioned here. This has been reflected in the other site full of 9-year-olds, Miiverse. ...Well, Japanese Miiverse, to be exact. I've seen many really really unpopular votes in there before, and they happen not to be judged for doing so at all.

Continuing with the point, even if he is popular, is he actually well known? I'm asking this because, out of this Smashboard community who everyone should've already learnt from other users and knew more about the franchise just by clicking in the respective thread, K Rool may seem like a bandwagon. Many here can spit out a moveset within seconds by command, but for the general fanbase? There might be a portion where they support K Rool solely because "He's heavyweight, a villain, and a DK Rep". In other words, not truly wanting the characters, just dragged in because they've heard about why he should be in.
Deserving Arguments
Well, we're coming back to the deserving arguments again. That might not even be a point, but I need to mention stuff about this.
Sure, Smash don't have much heavyweight, villains, and DK Reps. But do we really need more of these? The last one... maybe. The former? I think not.

While this is completely subjective, being a heavyweight and villain doesn't really mean stuff. No one really had officially set a specific ruleset about how many heavyweight should be there, how many villain should be there, etc. All these deserving points are just fan theories and wishes.
Relevancy
Eh, the bane of K Rool supports prior to update 1.1.0. When one wants to counter K Rool, they will almost only take this point out first. Being unused as a villain since 2007, and only had one game appearance after Brawl. Downright replaced in the main game, etc.
また、未来にソフトが出る可能性や予定がないシリーズやキャラは、どうしても優先度が下がります。~Sakurai ~Sourcegaming ~Me copypasting
Sakurai already claimed those who have likely no future in game will be lowered in priority, so this does damage his chance somehow. Well, not until some "important" event happened.
Mii Costume
Oooooh boy. My favorite part comes again. On the 29th of July, a twitter that flooded the K Rool support up to ~200 users+guests viewing appeared. My response of this was "OMG WTF", then "LEL SAKURAI", then instant hype for the rest of the day. I was completely sidetracked by the Mii Costume releasing the next day in work, checking every minute to see if the next Mii Costumes are announced. Rather surprisingly, he's the only one popular character receiving such a treatment.
To begin, let's see people's reaction.
imsorru.png

... Oh.
To be fair, let's tally up people's response on what happens in threads.
First of we have the Smashboard community.... better not. The thing is like 4 pages long within an hour and expandingdong, but the basic idea is: Everyone freaks out, everyone is raging at Sakurai, with like one comment being a picture of Sakurai laughing which inevitably got warned.

Anyways, let's see what happens in the Japan community.
sus
So here's some translations of the response
間違ってはいないが・・・
Well, this is perfect... (sarcasm)
ついに参戦か
しかし…
So he ended up joining?
However...​
このクソ暑いのに着ぐるみとか
毛糸と零といいなんで季節感ズレてるんだよ!
At such f**king hot days we don't need these character-cosplay costume or fursuit thing
That doesn't fit the season at all!
Miiのコス化って不名誉なことなんだよね?
Being turned into Mii Costume a great disgrace, no?​
そんなにアイスクライマーいるの?
So if there's something like this where's Ice Climber? (I'm guessing he wants a ICies costume)
本当に死んで欲しい
I WANT TO DIE​
Like so. I tallied up these and see the overall response of the event, sorted by emotion, categorized like this:
  • Desperation (Feeling hopeless, highly disappointed, etc)
  • Anger (Hating on Sakurai's decision, etc)
  • Ridicule (Laughing out loud from this, making jokes out of it, "that's pretty good actually" etc)
  • Calmness (Care more about what Sakurai is trying to do than the actual costume itself)
  • Denying ("This affects nothing! It made K Rool more likely!")
  • Ignorance (Off topic posts, not about the costume but other thing that may happen alongside)
I sorta made up the response in here, since 100+ posts of raging is a bit too hard to check within the time given, but the Japanese is based on the link given above. (Only the main thread, not the comments, there are like 100+ posts again. They're mostly the same as the main one anyways)

Apparently the Japanese didn't really care about the costume again (don't care as in "this doesn't affect me", not "this doesn't affect K Rool"). A few wanted explanation, some made fun of the costume, some simply asked "why are they making costume when they can't be used online" etc.

One thing though, this is the first day reaction, and by now many have calmed down already.

In this community, obviously, most fans has calmed down and now took this Costume as an advantage rather than an impact to its chances, and those who don't has obviously lost hope of K Rool and moved forward to their second choice (or just simply get K Rool out of their list of choices). The Japanese community tho. Dang it's hard to find later responses on this, they move on so quickly (I managed to find "predicting the future DLC" after "few DLC left" thread tho), and most of them are ignoring the K Rool event as a whole already. As said above, some mention K Rool only because he's popular in the western community. The comments of the thread are left with few salty K Rool fans flaming at stuff and Sakurai, and no responses are found after the first of August. I occasionally find Miiverse with requests of K Rool, but not much, mostly desperate posts.

The reason I'm mentioning this is... Oh well nothing. I was trying to see what would the Japanese think when this appeared, I've never checked the threads until today, but apparently... they don't care the slightest. Or when they do, they go like "F*** YOU F*** YOU SAKURAI GO TO DIE NAO" and rage at Sakurai because they're angering the Western community. I don't see any post about "K Rool has more chance" yet, but afaik, everyone basically thinks he's deconfirmed (or simply don't care about K Rool), or just "with the support especially in the western community, it doesn't really feel like K Rool has no chance."

Eh... Nothing. Moving on to the responses here.

Costume Mean Nothing / Helps The Character Argument
Right back when the Inklings were released, everyone was hopeless for them, the ratings dropped by a quarter. Now this happened, and many of the users rated 90+, some even 100%. Double standard huh?

Before I begin, I would like to reach a base consensus: The costume doesn't deconfirm K Rool. It dekonfirms him. Chances will be affected, but not in a rate he's confirmed/deconfirmed.

1. Link Costume! Meta Knight Costume! Samus Costume!
This has been the most common argument when it comes to "does costumes deconfirm the character", even back when Inklings are given outfits. Samus outfit didn't exist by then, but the Meta Knight was never mentioned. Funny.

Anyways, this has been covered by Etika. Again by no means do I say he's a reliable source, I've faced people counter me by countering his personality, but my claim is: he has the point.
Metaknight, Link, Sheik, Kirby, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Donkey Kong, Bowser, C.Falcon, and ALL the rest were hats in the mii plaza and obtainable BEFORE smash came out. Most of the mii hats that were already in the plaza were simply transferred to smash 3DS/WiiU. This cannot be used as an argument that KRool/Chrom still have a chance, because no character in a slot has had a mii outfit come out for them in smash that wasn't already in the plaza since the game came out, besides alt Megaman. Links hat recently became a smash mii outfit, but had been in the mii plaza for years since the 3DS was released. ~Etika ~Me Copy Pasting again
I've done a quick search, K Rool costume has no prior appearance (obvious). (I also find Wolf hat, but that's off the point) If King K Rool has to be released, he would've gotten in as a character, not a costume. Samus's outfit is another case, since the hat is done, so the outfit being published isn't a problem either (Besides, this may just be a consolation rep for Metroid series since they have no ridley or other characters to put).

One countercounterargument I've received is that "it never happened doesn't mean it won't", sure, but the chances of that happening is not quite high, and is already enough to cripple K Rool's chance.

So it's come to the conclusion that..
2. But... What if this is a lie/marketing trick?
Chances are, this is as slim as Ridley being announced as a Fighter. Okay, maybe not that extreme, but it's really not that likely. As mentioned, MK costume came 1 day before the official announcement of the character. As days have passed, the chance of that being a substitute is lowering day by day, if Wolf is measured by the same way. Sure, it may happen at a specific timing, but the same could be said for Wolf. Only 1-2 people claimed that possibility on Wolf's day, yet I've seen several of this argument in a row already. Wolf even had a possible safety net, K Rool don't. All the latest appearance of K Rool in games is something 7 years earlier, or maybe this pathetic costume being bashed around at the very first day.

Okay, ending this argument before it turns into a Wolf vs K Rool thing, but point is, it's not likely. At least not likely enough to be 90% in chance, unless you're really biased.
Possibilities
Now, what are the possibilities that this K Rool event is going towards?
1. Consolation Prize
So some may say K Rool turns into a costume due to Sakurai not able to make him a character, and ended up making him a costume, thinking the bowling ball thing would have worked. The problems are:
  1. What makes him not able to be made as a fighter? As mentioned by many, there's nothing really wrong with this character in terms of technical gimmicks. That is, he doesn't seem to have/need them. Some mentioned about movesets representation problem, but what's the point in that, when there are so many characters (Wario, Ganondorf, etc) not representing their actual appearance already?
  2. Why is K Rool planned so early? As again said he isn't solidly the top requested character, and even so why did they decide to release K Rool costume this early when everyone was waiting for the ballot to end and see the resulted characters?
The possible explanation is that "Developers see K Rool being highly requested, but they decided he can't be a fighter so he's thrown in as a costume" but, the first point is still as suspicious as ever.

Also another explanation of "K Rool is highly suggested, but not the highest". Either this points to only 1-2 characters will become DLC (since K Rool is really high up around top 3, even if not top), or some unnamed characters are actually having much higher supports or so.
2. The Ballot is a hoax
Another theory many made up from the K Rool costume Salt Field. "Name your favorite character and we'll turn him into a Mii Costume!" something like this.
Now, someone in reddit even bought up the problem of "mistranslation" in response of the cause of this, but of course, since that's Japanese, I can translate them into English and see if they really are mistranslated.

I'm not translating the whole thing again, but the worth mentioning point:
本ソフトの参戦キャラクターの検討等​
"As a consideration or so of coming characters in this game..."
Two key words. 参戦キャラクター and 検討. The first one proves that characters are what will happen to the submitted results, and the second one, is that the character will only be served as consideration.
This shows that even if the top character didn't make it in, you cannot blame them for lying because they're just "considered", but it's definitely a trick to make safe excuses when it comes to fans raging about their character not getting in, which is the most likely outcome if such a ballot feature is given.

While this doesn't make it a hoax, it definitely proves the next point:
3. The Ballot is a suggestion box
Sourcegaming has covered this. Again this is only an opinion, a possibility, but would be the one making the most sense. The only thing not making sense is, why would developers even ignore the most popular choice?

This is a tiny theory that doesn't count as a possibility, but I'll mention anyway: These hype characters are saved for later use, so that the hype will not all drain out in one game. This theory has quite a few remarkable questions, but that's not exactly the point I'm referring to. It would be:
4. The costume is served as an extra marketing trick.
Again as covered above, this doesn't work in the slightest, and would really not worth it since, the costume only earns the company a few cents to a dollar, when the actual DLC costs up to 5-6 dollars. This wouldn't be done unless:
  1. The character cannot be implemented in game (already has a role, tech limits, cost of making the said DLC is higher than the actual income)
  2. They already know the character won't sell as a fighter.
While the second one is totally impossible, the first one is more likely, but... how? This remains a mystery and hey, there may be more possibilities to list but this is already splitting too much in sub-possibilities so let's skip that for now.
5. The costume shows that they are aware of the character.
Very likely, but the question is: so what will happen? This basically proves nothing in the end, other than that the previous possibilities may be true as well, or that the character will happen later, just not this time or such. Implied possibilities for this are infinite, so... next point.
6. The costume is not a part of the ballot.
Another theory up, this time even backed by some Nintendo workers... Well, we don't even know if they know what Sakurai is thinking, or if they even know about Smash. And even so, that contradicts the "fan-service" claim from PushDustIn.... hmmm...
7. Everything is preplanned
This. We have no evidence to prove or disprove this, so this is basically furtive fallacy.
--
I don't know if I've even covered everything, but point is made:
  1. K Rool is by no way a lock. And shouldn't even get a score higher than 80%.
  2. The Mii Costume is causing lost of support, that's inevitable.
  3. The Mii Costume does not increase his chance. Even when there are just so many reason that the costume helps him, but there are much more on the negative side and is more likely.
  4. There are a few optimistic looks on the Mii Costume thing, but that's purely some unproved, "conspiracy" theories that cannot be proved or disproved.
  5. I, obviously shown in the explanation above, do not want K Rool one bit

So, here's the main thing you wanted, the-guy-who-collects-scores:
Chance: 45%/2 = 22.5%.
The Mii Costume just isn't in his favor. This may really be a coin flip, but the positive possibilities are almost all hypothetical. If anything, he'd more likely be in the next game.

Want: -1085249728676295834765187658724% 0%/2 = 0%
Okay, that crossed point is true. When I went to give a want score for everyone in the Top-10 list, I literally gave K Rool 0%. There are more characters under this percentage, but still.
My opinion hasn't changed, and may even be strengthened due to... today.

Abstain from prediction and nomination.

(3155 words, wow)
 
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There really isn't a difference except that these veterans are already in the game...
You do realize that is a HUGE difference right?

like. . .a gigantic difference.

Do you guys really think Sakurai is going to ignore one of the most if not THE most requested character simply because, he's a mii costume?
no. but hypothetically he may have been a mii costume from his popularity

(note I havent rated his chances. I just really hate that argument.)
 
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BKupa666

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Inklings were rated differently because of their different situation, not because of hypocrisy. Their earlier high score came from people assuming Sakurai would pull a Roy and shove in Inklings as a full-on character because promotion and relevance and things. When it became clear that Inklings would have to rely on the ballot like everyone else, their score dropped, albeit not significantly.

If anything, I've seen people who defend the Inklings as still being possible deriding the K. Rool costume as being the end of the road for him.
 

BluePikmin11

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How the heck does quality DLC have anything to do with the 'design' at all? Design is purely for aesthetics sure if it looks like crap then that's poor quality but with regards to a character's design over another it really has nothing to do with the quality of DLC...
I'm pretty sure that the premium DLC has to do with everything Sakurai is adding.

He took his time to make sure that he made Tournament Mode had as many options for players as possible, giving the mode as high of a quality as possible.

He made sure and spent his time on Ryu being as close to his SFII form as possible while translating it in Smash well.

He made sure that all 64 stages were faithfully recreated in design to capture the nostalgia about those stages.

I think that quality standard applies to costumes too, and that Sakurai did his best to give K. Rool fans the best design possible to appease the huge amount of fans he has.
 
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D

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It's no different from any other character that pulls out weapons from nowhere for certain attacks.
Looking back at what I said before:
...[Mega Man's] moveset consists of various weapons and abilities from ten different Mega Man games, but his persona has remained consistent throughout his series.
There are other examples as well.
  • Mario pulls F.L.U.D.D. from out of nowhere for his:GCD: + :GCB:, yet his persona was retained when they first met in Super Mario Sunshine.
  • Luigi pulls the Poltergust from out of nowhere for his Final Smash, yet his persona is no different in the Luigi's Mansion series than it is in most other games he's appeared in.
  • Peach pulls vegetables, sports equipment, an umbrella, and even Toad from out of nowhere for various attacks of hers, yet her persona is no different when she uses the former three in their respective games. The Toad counter was created specifically for Smash to my knowledge, but she in no way looks out of character when performing that move.
I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

Anyway, now imagine King K. Rool pulling Kaptain K. Rool's rifle from out of nowhere. Looks out of character for him, doesn't it? Hypothetically, if the dev team tried the alternative of having K. Rool change his persona from King to Kaptain while pulling out his rifle, there might be technical issues preventing that from coming into fruition.
 

Laniv

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King K. Rool:

...You know what, this fits the mood.

Chance: 60%
The Mii costume hurt his chances, but we don't even know if it means anything at all.


Want: 100%
Someday, my king...

Predictions for Non-Playable Ballot: 25% Chance, 65% Want
Predictions for Ms. Pac-Man alt: 17% Chance, 58% Want

Nominate Daisy rerate x 5
 

Kitty-chan

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Nyaa~
King K.Rool
Chance: 75%
Meww~ Scary mii wearing a scary costume is pretty damaging on his chances of appearing nya... but I still have hope nya! And cake too mew!

Want: 100%
His appearance would be magical nya!

Nomination: Tiki (Fire Emblem) x5
 

dangeraaron10

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King K. Rool:

Chance: 90%

We already know the Mii Costume does not mess with his chances. Nintendo has confirmed this as several of our members each inquired about this fact and either got "No it does not" or "I don't know". If anything, there are more hints of him being on the way, even Nintendo of Europe made a rather unsubtle statement about it on their twitter.

Want: 100%

K. Rool actually has the chance to be a DIFFERENT heavy. One that focuses on projectiles and traps to set himself apart from the likes of Bowser, Charizard, Dedede and Ganondorf.
 

Aetheri

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I'm pretty sure that the premium DLC has to do with everything Sakurai is adding.

He took his time to make sure that he made Tournament Mode had as many options for players as possible, giving the mode as high of a quality as possible.

He made sure and spent his time on Ryu being as close to his SFII form as possible while translating it in Smash well.

He made sure that all 64 stages were faithfully recreated in design to capture the nostalgia about those stages.

I think that quality standard applies to costumes too, and that Sakurai did his best to give K. Rool fans the best design possible to appease the huge amount of fans he has.
I was speaking in context...K Rool's design as a Mii has nothing to do with his chances as a playable fighter...Why wouldn't Sakurai use his more popular design whether or not K Rool will be made DLC?
 

YoshiandToad

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Still up Peach's dress.
  • Peach pulls vegetables, sports equipment, an umbrella, and even Toad from out of nowhere for various attacks of hers, yet her persona is no different when she uses the former three in their respective games. The Toad counter was created specifically for Smash to my knowledge, but she in no way looks out of character when performing that move.
Not your point but; I'd argue she looks INCREDIBLY out of character pulling Toad out, and not just because I want the guy as a playable.

She's reknown as the all loving kind and caring ruler of the Mushroom Kingdom who loves her subjects dearly...and then she uses them as human shields in this game.

I mean if that's not out of character I really don't know what would be classified as out of character.
 
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dangeraaron10

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Not your point but; I'd argue she looks INCREDIBLY out of character pulling Toad out, and not just because I want the guy as a playable.

She's reknown as the all loving kind and caring ruler of the Mushroom Kingdom who loves her subjects dearly...and then she uses them as human shields in this game.

I mean if that's not out of character I really don't know what would be classified as out of character.
Hey,

at least Peach doesn't fight like an F Zero pilot, so there's that.
 

BluePikmin11

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I do not think his potential is the main problem as he already possesses enough unique tools in the DKC games to make a moveset out of. I do think there is a different reason for his exclusion, and it's definitely not his potential that's hindering him.

I was speaking in context...K Rool's design as a Mii has nothing to do with his chances as a playable fighter...Why wouldn't Sakurai use his more popular design whether or not K Rool will be made DLC?
I mean the design is a nice reference tool if he ever got reconsidered into Smash, but is in little to no way a direct hint of what's to come for K. Rool as a fighter like people have been saying it is, it's more of design quality choice than anything.
 

AncientTobacco

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Anyway, now imagine King K. Rool pulling Kaptain K. Rool's rifle from out of nowhere. Looks out of character for him, doesn't it?
No?

There's characters that use moves they never had in their original games, like Ness and Robin. Or moves that aren't even FROM their original games, like Duck Hunt pulling out random gunmen. But somehow K. Rool using moves he had while wearing different clothes is too "out of character"? I don't see it.
 

FalKoopa

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Hoo boy, arguments, arguments everywhere.

K. Rool:
Chance: 50%

My current score is a 30% drop from the last score. Why? Skeptisicm.

Mii Fighter costumes have put a new spin on the way a character can possibly be disconfirmed and we have no precedent one way or the other as to whether it puts a newcomer out of the race.

To be perfectly honest, I have absolutely no idea what possessed Sakurai to make a aa K. Rool Mii costume, as he would obviously have been aware of the backdraft that would follow. To make matters even more confusing, he didn't use the PAON design, but lifted it straight from the Rare era, making it the first appearance of classic K. Rool since 1999.

So, in my view, it's a coin flip at this point. We make predictions based on previous outcomes, but this case we have no data to go off of.

Want: 100%
That doesn't detract me from supporting him all the way to the end though. He is a great character, a good villain, and an enjoyable personality who simply hasn't got the opportunity to shine properly. A Smash appearance would do him justice and secure his future in the DK series.

:231:
 

False Sense

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I'm not annoying anyone with "K. Rool fans are desperate" behavior, just disagreeing and countering those points with evidence.
What I really want to know with today's rating is if you guys can counter the point that the quality DLC statement Sakurai has made that nulls the notion of the design of the costume being a hint at all.
It really can't be countered. But there lies the problem with it.

You've provided your own interpretation why Sakurai added K. Rool as a Mii costume, and why it's such a high quality. That's fine, you have some valid points to back it up. But that's all it is; an interpretation. Another possibility to consider. It can't be directly "countered" because it's just speculation; likewise, it doesn't "counter" or "null" any of the other supported possibilities.
 

Senselessbreak

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K Rool:

Chance: 99%

Most requested character in the ballot, in all regions
Villain rep, with unique moveset. DK needs more reps badly.

Want: 100%
 

BluePikmin11

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It really can't be countered. But there lies the problem with it.

You've provided your own interpretation why Sakurai added K. Rool as a Mii costume, and why it's such a high quality. That's fine, you have some valid points to back it up. But that's all it is; an interpretation. Another possibility to consider. It can't be directly "countered" because it's just speculation; likewise, it doesn't "counter" or "null" any of the other supported possibilities.
Such a notable possibility can't be ignored when evidence is supported. I think the evidence itself is already enough to make it one of the more possible reasons as to why the quality for the costume is at an all-time high. Not "countered" if that's not the right word, but lessening the notion of the costume being a hint at all.
 
D

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No?

There's characters that use moves they never had in their original games, like Ness and Robin. Or moves that aren't even FROM their original games, like Duck Hunt pulling out random gunmen. But somehow K. Rool using moves he had while wearing different clothes is too "out of character"? I don't see it.
To be fair, while Ness and Lucas perform moves that weren't used by them in the Mother series, they're still using their trademark psychic power, so it isn't THAT out of character for them. Likewise, not all of the magic tomes Robin uses were used by him/her in Awakening, but his/her specialty is using magic tomes, so it still makes some degree of sense.

Also, the dog summoning the gunmen made sense in context since Duck Hunt's purpose was nothing more than to serve as a tribute to the NES Zapper.
 
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Wintropy

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K. ROOL

CHANCE: 75%​

Still the ballot's dark horse candidate, still a massively requested newcomer with a ton of potential for a damn fine moveset. The character I feel most strongly about making it in via the Smash ballot. The real issue, to my my mind, isn't the Mii kostume: it's Sakurai's opinion on the character. The fact that he decided to use the Rare design for the kostume, in spite of its disappearance since the early Noughties, is definitely a point against this concern - I have konfidence in the king.

WANT: 100%​

NOW THAT I HAVE THE POWER, THIS IS MY FINEST HOUR, NOTHING ON THIS EARTH CAN STOP ME NOW~!

My most-wanted DLC character with a -realistic chance. Would play him a hell of a lot.

NOMINATE: Brash the Bear x 10 (ostensibly I have extra nominations from that correct prediction a few weeks ago?)​
 

WeirdChillFever

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I admit the passive agreeing.
But for today, I'm just want to debate a few things this time with no intention of annoying the fans, I don't want to leave out a point that I feel is flawed and just let it be.


What do you mean by this?
That there's absolutely no sign of other ballot consolation prizes except for maybe K. Rool.
And that there's thus no evidence for this theory.

If he was released alongside other popular characters this might hold some ground but as of right now there's multiple possibilities than deconfirmed.
 

False Sense

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Such a notable possibility can't be ignored when evidence is supported. I think the evidence itself is already enough to make it one of the more possible reasons as to why the quality for the costume is at an all-time high. Not "countered" if that's not the right word, but lessening the notion of the costume being a hint at all.
I don't necessarily disagree with that, and I think it's a possibility worth giving consideration to, but there's evidence for both sides and it's far from absolute as you act like it is.
 
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