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Rate my ZSS (videos)
- Thread starter Acidictadpole
- Start date
ThreeSided
Smash Ace
Only had time to cretique based on the first video.
Video 1:
0:05 - When you're trying to get rid of your pieces at the beginning of the match, do a standing throw, not a dashing throw. The dash through has more lag, and you'll get punished for it by campers or aggressive meleers. Also, watch out for the accidental Dair. It cost you only 3%, but could have been a lot worse. =\
0:09 - Nice piece mindgames.
0:22 -DA > Fsmash is NOT a recommended attack string. Better yet, just don't Fsmash at all.
0:42 - If you try to camp someone who outcamps you, you will lose.
0:51 + 0:56 - YOU MUST HAVE A SET UP FOR YOUR GRABS. Vanilla grabs don't work with ZSS.
1:29 - Better choice here would have been plasma whip.
Recurring Issues:
You use Dash Attack a bit too much/at the wrong times. DA is a punishing move.
Fair is NOT ZSS's best aerial, not even for damage wracking. It does the most damage in a single execution, but it doesn't chain into anything. It also has a fair amount of land cancel lag, and is relatively laggy compared to ZSS's other moves. It should not be used as an approach.
UAIR. DO IT. This is ZSS's best aerial. It chains into itself, or even combo into itself/Bair if you hit with the sour-spot in the back. It can also chain into Plasma Wire at higher %s, which can combo into an aerial for what is known as the "cake combo". This move is both ZSS's best damage wracker and one of her best killers.
Video 1:
0:05 - When you're trying to get rid of your pieces at the beginning of the match, do a standing throw, not a dashing throw. The dash through has more lag, and you'll get punished for it by campers or aggressive meleers. Also, watch out for the accidental Dair. It cost you only 3%, but could have been a lot worse. =\
0:09 - Nice piece mindgames.
0:22 -
0:42 - If you try to camp someone who outcamps you, you will lose.
0:51 + 0:56 - YOU MUST HAVE A SET UP FOR YOUR GRABS. Vanilla grabs don't work with ZSS.
1:29 - Better choice here would have been plasma whip.
Recurring Issues:
You use Dash Attack a bit too much/at the wrong times. DA is a punishing move.
Fair is NOT ZSS's best aerial, not even for damage wracking. It does the most damage in a single execution, but it doesn't chain into anything. It also has a fair amount of land cancel lag, and is relatively laggy compared to ZSS's other moves. It should not be used as an approach.
UAIR. DO IT. This is ZSS's best aerial. It chains into itself, or even combo into itself/Bair if you hit with the sour-spot in the back. It can also chain into Plasma Wire at higher %s, which can combo into an aerial for what is known as the "cake combo". This move is both ZSS's best damage wracker and one of her best killers.
Acidictadpole
Smash Cadet
Great responses.
I try not to Fsmash with her. When it happens it's usually because I either moved too quickly from the jump to the c-stick (to do an aerial) or because the jump didn't go off. That lends itself more to control rather which is still being worked on. The only time I wanted to Fsmash (I think it was in video one) was where it was charging off the edge.
That accidental Dair pulled up one of those "o****" moments in my mind.. I can't remember the exact circumstance but I do know I didn't mean to do it. I do know I shouldn't use it unless I *know* I can make it hit, due to the huge landing lag on it.
Thanks again for your comments and I look forward to more from your view of the other videos when/if you get a chance.
You definitely have the basics down. You have a firm grasp of what's good and bad. However, your biggest problem in these videos is that you're not playing the match-up. It's hard to really judge beyond that, though, because your opponent wasn't playing the match-up, either, and you clearly outclass them. It's a good match-up for ZSS, but Samus should still not be getting three stocked.
My biggest piece of advice is stay grounded when approaching Samus. Dash attack is really good against her, and from the ground you can PS her projectiles really easily. Plus, her zair pretty much negates any aerial approach, as you can see in the second match. Dash attack will come out before zair if you space it right. Oh, and learn to PS Samus' projectiles. It's stupidly easy.
Be careful when edgeguarding Samus. Your opponent wasn't really playing the ledge well, but a good Samus would have punished a lot of the things you did.
You do need to learn how to space Dsmash, though.
Also, don't fsmash/dair, etc. etc. Fsmash is a terrible edge guard move.
I definitely would have a lot more advice for the Samus, though.
My biggest piece of advice is stay grounded when approaching Samus. Dash attack is really good against her, and from the ground you can PS her projectiles really easily. Plus, her zair pretty much negates any aerial approach, as you can see in the second match. Dash attack will come out before zair if you space it right. Oh, and learn to PS Samus' projectiles. It's stupidly easy.
Be careful when edgeguarding Samus. Your opponent wasn't really playing the ledge well, but a good Samus would have punished a lot of the things you did.
You do need to learn how to space Dsmash, though.
Also, don't fsmash/dair, etc. etc. Fsmash is a terrible edge guard move.
I definitely would have a lot more advice for the Samus, though.
ThreeSided
Smash Ace
Forgot to say last night that you used Dsmash to edge guard too much. It was kinda predictable. Sure, it's fairly safe, and when they're about to grab the edge and you can't edge guard many/any other ways, then go ahead. But when they are recovering lower/higher/further away, you're better off walking/jumping off and using Fair/Bair/Plasma whip to edge guard. You have the habit of just waiting for them to recover, and then trying to land Dsmash on them.
Acidictadpole
Smash Cadet
Yea I'm a little skittish about going over the edge to edgeguard with ZSS. It's worked somtimes but I usually end up just getting edgehogged and can't grapple the edge to get back up. Do you have a method I could try and practice to better my edgeguarding/hogging techniques?
Acidictadpole
Smash Cadet
Yea, I don't play against many different people which is probably why that's come about. I'm going to be getting out a bit more once school starts for this since there's a group here at school that plays.
I'll point him to this thread, so go ahead.. Or PM me the advice if you want to keep on the board topic.
ThreeSided
Smash Ace
Here is a little guide on edge guarding tactics with Zero Suit. NOTE: At all the points that I mention the use of Fair and/or Bair, Nair is also an option, but it tends not to be as good as the other two options. Nair in edge-guarding use tends to be of the lulzy variety.
If your opponent is recovering high (meaning they are about two ZSS's or higher up from the stage):
Use your jumps to bring you up off the stage at their level. Usually, the best choice here is Bair due to range, horizontal knockback, and power, but fair can be a good choice if you aren't sure you can time the Bair perfectly, since two hits are more likely to hit than one. If they are far off stage and/or you are scared of some move they could use to counter your Bair/fair (Marth's Fair, Nado, etc.) or are just plain scary to risk dealing with (DK's Fair, other spiking moves), jumping and using Plasma Whip is very effective, and at times actually "quicker" due to its range.
If your opponent is recovering at mid-height (from right below "high recovery" to right above "low recovery"):
If they are further off from the stage, walk-off to second-jump Fair (or plasma whip if they're really far) can be very effective. If you have the time, you can also SH backwards off the stage so you can do a Bair instead of a Fair after the second jump. At mid-range from the stage, our best bet tends to be a SH'd or standing plasma whip. If they are in the higher-up area of the mid-height recovery range, then a SH B/Fair does a good job. When they are close, as in close enough that they will grab the edge soon, and edge hogging wont get rid of them, you have four good options; If you want to be really safe, standing away from the edge and using plasma whip so the sweet spot is over the edge makes a nice edge-guarding tactic. They can DI away from it, and then safely recover low, but it's still a decent option. Another, less used option, is to use our jabs up close. Because they are hovering off the edge with no ground below them, they can't power shield the third jab, so it's more effective than our jab usually is. It's good for resetting the mid-height recovery at higher percents, but tends to put them in a position that's a bit hard/awkward to edge guard at lower percents. Our third option, again not often used, but effective, is to do a Dash Attack (DA) at the edge. This sends them back at a low angle, setting them up for a low recovery, which is a dangerous place to be when you're against Zamus. This is actually a fairly reliable but under-used option. The last option is probably the coolest, and that's catching them in front of you right off the edge with a Dsmash. This essentially means a stock, and is why most players who are familiar with the match up will avoid this area at all costs. Out of Dsmash, a flip kick spike is basically death. I believe her kick is the third strongest spike in the game? You want to time this right, because unless you catch them far off with the end of the Dsmash hit box, or unless they are a fatty, you're going to have to catch them with the flip-kick out of the knock-back they get when they come out of stun. Most that I've seen do it by Flipping off from the stage, but many, including most of the pros I've seen, actually walk off and flip backwards to land the kick. Keep in mind that they can DI the Dsmash's knock back, which though still hit-abele, changes the timing. Landing that Dsmash is not as reliable as the other options, but the rewards are much, much higher, so this tends to be a Zamus player's option of choice anyways.
If they are recovering low (from below the edge-line):
If they are far out and low but still in need of edge guarding, a walk off fair can be risky. I'd suggest you walk off plasma-whip, so you can be closer to the stage. Backwards SH to Bair is about as risky as Fair when they are this far away, but also more rewarding. If they are not so far away and recovering low, walk-off Fair is very good. Two hits makes it easier to land than Bair, and it's quicker than jumping off backwards. The second hit has very good knock-back, only a little less than Bair, and the first hit sends them out at a low angle, which is always good for edge guarding. Plasma Whip is not very useful here, due to it's start up lag, which could easily have you be hit out of it, or dropping too low and getting edge hogged if you miss. Hitting with the reverse-hitbox of Bair also works fairly well, and is an option of choice for some players. It's harder to land than the second hit of Fair, but has more knock back (though still less than the normal Bair). When your opponent is recovering low close to the stage, then Bair tends to be good if they are really low, for a possible stage spike. If they are higher up but still recovering low while close the the stage, catching them with the lower hitbox of Dsmash makes the perfect set up for a Bair stage spike. It takes a fair amount of timing, though.
All of this takes practice, but you can only practice so far with trainging mode. You're better off just trying this in matches. Because a lot of this involves stepping off stage, you want to learn to use her recovery correctly to avoid being edge hogged should you fail. I think we have one or two threads all about ZSS's recovery. It's a complex one.
Using boost jumps and flipstools work great to help regain your height.
Also, use the edit button instead of double posting. xD
Viquey
Smash Journeyman
Awesome stuff. But imma add one thing: Plasma Wire spikes. :D Hard to pull off (harder than dsmash > flipkick), and less definite/more cancel-able than the flipkick, but it still looks pretty **** cool. Plus makes being off-stage even more frightening against Zamus, 'cause she has potential definite KO options from all angles (key word being potential, but still).
So if they're recovering high, jump/short-hop/whatever will put you at the right height off the stage, and up-b. You want to hit with the top-ish of the whip--not the top, but above the middle. And a little bit in front of it as well. Which is why it's so hard to do.
That and the fact that depending on how many jumps you used if it fails you may be the one stuck recovering, but with much fewer options. But it'll spike! If they cancel it, then they're still either mid-low or low, giving you the option to simply edgehog or fair/bair, or return to the stage to start over, w/e.so yeah, thought that'd be good to know. I'll watch the vids later, though I'm certainly no tried-and-true "pr0" level Zamus, thus my advice might very well be null and void. XD
also this reminds me of how I wish I'd saved the friendlies I
Hopefully some of the matches that WERE saved were good ones. XD 'Cause I need me some crits too.
booboo
Smash Cadet
i dont c to much zss around but ur pretty good
The most prevalent issue is that he needs to ftilt more. Samus has always played roughly the same way in every smash game, and ftilt has always figured prominently. It's actually really unfortunate that zair got so buffed in Brawl, because now people have forgotten how to space with her ftilt, when ftilt is so much better at mid-range. Samus can walk around ftilting at the right spacing and throw so many characters off. The advantage ftilt gives Samus in this match-up is speed. Properly spaced and canceled missiles telegraph themselves, because they usually start at the peak of a shorthop, so if I see you jump, I can just dash attack, but if you're using ftilt, you can respond much faster to what I'm doing. I'm pretty sure dsmash out-ranges ftilt, though, so don't spam it, just use it to set your spacing, and walk in with it to punish and set your opponent up. ZSS doesn't have a huge amount of grounded counter moves, so once you ftilt, she'll either give up ground, jump or shield. If she backs up, walk toward her. If she jumps, retreat with a zair. If she shields, grab her, or if you're at the right spacing, shield pressure with aerials and jabs.
Acidictadpole
Smash Cadet
Try this: Deal Extreme Link: EasyCAP USB 2.0 Audio/Video Capture/Surveillance Dongle
My roommate uses this. The hardware works great, the software is a little buggy (it always switches back to PAL after every record and we manually need to change it back) but it's a great buy. I intend to get at least one of these for myself in the near future.
cool, thanks i might get this.