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rate my marth

SwiftBass

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
5,804
Location
Thunder Whales Picnic
ok guys lemme have it.

Ima really do this marth main thing and i would like any feedback. I suck with him and I know theres plenty of holes that need to be filled in my play.

heres some stuff...

recent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oXuUwzD_vw
not so recent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvXn_xJHlE0

Im not trolling. I really want feedback. Mainly on stuff pertaining to my on stage game and also DEF some out of shield critique.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
What happens when you don't use a character enough you make classic mistakes with them. Not just Marth but any character. It takes time to get the sense and feel of what to do in every situation vs every character. It's evident when you switch to Marth that he isn't as familiar to you in a tourney setting as your fox.

for example at about 2:17 of your match with Nando. When you get that Utilt. Anyone who played Purely as Marth or at least has been Using him constantly for a long time would have got the kill.

Also sometimes during that Match you lingered perpendicular to the ledge. This resulted in Bair death's, and vs Fox/Falco/Sheik...etc It will mean certain death. Example of that is at 6:28 of your second match with Nando. These Minor little things are the difference between winning and losing alot of times. If you take out silly things like that you actually have a pretty good marth. It seems very original in style....almost like a Euro-style Marth.
 

Teczer0

Research Assistant
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
16,861
Location
Convex Cone, Positive Orthant
Ahhhh my dude Swift using Marth =D

I love it, me and you gotta talk more marth strats and stuff at tournies Tim. Anyway, right critique. Btw, I'm watching your recent match not the not so recent one rofl.

Game one, very generally your movement is somewhat choppy and you happened to overextend a lot. Marth's best weapon is that he has superior range over the entire cast (or most whatever). You did a lot of aggressive nairs although a lot were well placed I think you did it too often. Its even better used defensively too btw.

Next, know your marth ranges. I noticed you missed quite a lot of combos simply cuz you misjudged his range. Especially fsmash above the platforms. A general rule to keep in mind Tim, is that if you want to fsmash at one direction fsmash from a position slightly off-center toward your opponent.

So, if you wanted to fsmash someone to the left, move slightly to the left from the center of the platform and it'll connect with a tipper.

Uptilt iirc you can be slightly closer to the center, you might wanna keep that in mind.

Also, vs Falcon when you dthrowed you tried grab edge twice and counter once. Grab edge really doesn't offer many things in terms of quick edgeguards if you're going for a quick kill and willing to go for the risk either, counter (expecting immediate DJ aerial) into SH fair DJ fair. Or WD/run off Fair up-b then do one more fair into weak up-b. Then just edgeguard. If you're not up to the risk/reward just move back and dtilt and be ready to space.

As for OOS stuff, vs falcon's your most useful OOS options are just WD OOS AWAY and dair OOS into fsmash or nair w/e. Its just not as useful because marth's moves take too long to really make use of WD OOS and Falcon's is short enough where you can't do crazy things.

WD OOS fsmash is really good if your opponent is overly aggressive, it sets up for near tipper range fyi.

2nd match, similar stuff. Try not to linger in the air too much Swift. Despite what you may believe, marth isn't that strong in the air. Commit to shorter SHFFL aerials, especially Nair. If you're going to use SHDF try to move a direction and commit. Either you're spacing really hard with 2 fairs or you're about to go for an fsmash after the fair.
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
Location
AZ
random tricks that are really fabulous and you should start doing (or comments)

-cc grab
-ledgehop counter to get back on-stage
-dd rising sh fair
-cc grab
-you could probably just DD more when you have them cornered. you seem to just be spacing aerials mostly and going for dashaway-dashback grabs when they shield, but you could just take the ***** and go balls deep with a grab, or you could just DD in their face. not something to always do, but it's pretty dope.
-crouch cancel grab
-cc grab
-fair to reverse up B
-cc grab
-when you two are sorta far away in neutral position, you'd usually just try to call his retreat and approach or throwing something out hoping he'll run into it. you should work on using your movement (or fast sword swings like dtilt and fairs) to pressure them and bait them in instead of trying to approach or hoping they'll come to you.
-cc grab
-remember that when marth gets hit in mid-air, that's really bad for him. aerials are good and all, but if you're working their way around it, just keep your feet on the ground (or change your spacing). CC GRAB!
 

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
At really high % when CF tries to recover high just double jump up there and nair him. As long as he's +150% he has no real chance to recover before you can edgeguard him again. Just rinse repeat til they die. I don't like giving them a chance to be tricky, and beyond that, by waiting for him to land on a platform you give him a chance to ledge cancel meaning you won't get that fsmash even if you hadn't whiffed it.

If you see falcon or any character spacing bair or something on Marth's ledgehop, ledgehop air dodge I actually find amazing.

Couple of times it seems like your fsmashing kind of in place or without advancing too far. Maybe anticipating the CF approach. But if you're going to fsmash from neutral position (which I definitely recommend occasionally) you want to really really invade their DD range with it, and try to mask it as best you can. If you just fsmash right in front of him he has all day to punish. If you at least make him emergency shield it he might not be in the best position to punish (might catch him backwards, he only gets a bair off or something).

CF's absolutely love to shield when marth approaches from the air so I find tomahawks really effective against him, as well as timing those late fair/autocancel nairs on his shield into dash behind/sidestep. Baits that grab like..every time...on any CF. Seriously.

Also some CFs are "jumpy" and some CFs are DD heavy. Nando is a jumping CF, so running dtilt doesn't work so well. You can also tighten this up because you don't want to be dashing any longer than is absolutely necessary for running dtilts cause they are telegraphed otherwise. Just have to creep towards them a little more with DDing and then do the dtilt using the minimal dash length needed to dash cancel.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
At really high % when CF tries to recover high just double jump up there and nair him. As long as he's +150% he has no real chance to recover before you can edgeguard him again. Just rinse repeat til they die. I don't like giving them a chance to be tricky, and beyond that, by waiting for him to land on a platform you give him a chance to ledge cancel meaning you won't get that fsmash even if you hadn't whiffed it.

If you see falcon or any character spacing bair or something on Marth's ledgehop, ledgehop air dodge I actually find amazing.

Couple of times it seems like your fsmashing kind of in place or without advancing too far. Maybe anticipating the CF approach. But if you're going to fsmash from neutral position (which I definitely recommend occasionally) you want to really really invade their DD range with it, and try to mask it as best you can. If you just fsmash right in front of him he has all day to punish. If you at least make him emergency shield it he might not be in the best position to punish (might catch him backwards, he only gets a bair off or something).

CF's absolutely love to shield when marth approaches from the air so I find tomahawks really effective against him, as well as timing those late fair/autocancel nairs on his shield into dash behind/sidestep. Baits that grab like..every time...on any CF. Seriously.

Also some CFs are "jumpy" and some CFs are DD heavy. Nando is a jumping CF, so running dtilt doesn't work so well. You can also tighten this up because you don't want to be dashing any longer than is absolutely necessary for running dtilts cause they are telegraphed otherwise. Just have to creep towards them a little more with DDing and then do the dtilt using the minimal dash length needed to dash cancel.
Niko! Mind if I call you Mr.NY? Did you see that in the video? I wasn't sure what else to say XD

anyways what do you guys know about Sheik vs Marth? I can still beat an average Sheik that picks her up for a random "I bet I can beat you" Pride set but barely.....anyone have some advice on what to do? Aside from Random Fsmash of love. I've had time to correct that but it's still a struggle of sorts.

Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRTeezdPgE
Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyIP41g8VJ4
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Stick to Fox. Your marth is horrendous. some feedback:

1. you block. why? you have a broken dashdance and a wall of sword. marth has no reason to block ever except maybe vs falco.
2. you play like marth has no range. you frequently hit with marth's hands instead of his sword.
3. you spam nair which is easily shield grabbed. not only do you spam nair, you overextend into the opponents shield to avoid any work put forth timing a dashgrab. if you're going to nair, don't overextend, do it infrequently, and dash away or sidestep upon landing. or really just don't do it. marth has la on his moves and none of them stay out so you can't afford to miss anything ever.
4. you don't use any trapping methods. marth is dumb because he can easily get you into a situation where you're already dead. the only one attempted in the videos is up B spamming hax's falcon (0:37-0:46) which was set up by him being ******** and not even you.
5. you're not using upthrow. upthrow is another major reason marth is stupid. marth can upthrow and suddenly the opposing character loses every method to beat him.

try this: base your ENTIRE gameplay around DD grab. like really thats it. don't block, and if they're dashdancing back run extra far and dtilt instead, otherwise just grab. if they jump at you, jump up or away and fair whatever they're overextending with. basically just grab or if they jump at you fair to grab. upon grab, if fastfaller at/close to the edge, and facing in towards the stage, downthrow. if they can fall off, react. if not, do m2k's lock of dthrow turn dtilt. otherwise vs any other character anywhere else, upthrow. then do moves at them until they die such that they can't land. you don't care about kill moves because they're still helpless. just focus your entire style around DD grab or fair > grab and upthrow them and never let them land. don't fall for any tricks and never overextend. you'll probably do substantially better than you are now. if you don't know what to do after upthrow, fair.

edit: if you want to edge guard CF, just dtilt. CF's body box always goes over the stage so you can always dtilt him unless he comes up backwards. if he comes up backwards, WD FF edgehog him. if he techs the dtilt, dtilt again and keep doing it until he dies. he can literally do nothing about it.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
I actually really like using shield against jump happy falcons, but there are easily 3 better options. I'm just really fast on my oos response to falcons attacks.

All the writeups I did about that matchup in particular are probably buried further than search allows us to search at this point...
 
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