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Rate my Kirby please!

DC

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
55
Disclaimer: I've been playing SSBB for a few months now. My main was originally Ike, but since I've always been a fan of the Kirby series I decided to give him a try. I've been playing Kirby for about 2 weeks now. Going from Ike's recovery to Kirby's recovery is awesome.

Here are two games from a recent tournament. I lost both games and I figure I should post them here to get some tips to help me out more next time.
Game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJWdEc4M1L8
Game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-_TPjeAnGk
Watch in high quality because they look horrible in regular.

Some constructive criticism would be helpful. I also looked for a dedicated thread for this type of thing but couldn't find one. Thanks.
 

A1lion835

Smash Champion
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WALL OF TEXT WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS AN EXTREME WALL OF TEXT. READ ONLY WITH PERMISSION FROM YOUR DOCTOR.

In the future, go to the "Official 'Rate My Kirby' and 'Help With a Matchup' thread". I'll get a link to that soon...

Here we go.

First Game:

- You need to be extremely aggressive vs G&W, but more careful than usual. Try fthrow>uair>f/usmash (usmash recomended) to start off, then try to follow up with an FC. Also, you need to start trying for a kill earlier than usual (70ish &) against someone who doesn't bucket break.

- At :50, I would've used stone. It probably would've gotten a kill.

- Nice bair usage.

- You shouldn't be charging those smashes, like at :58. An uncharged one would've gotten you the kill.

- Nice stone edguard at 1:34. It didn't hit, but it was the correct move to use. Sometimes you just aren't lucky.

- You're doing a lot of spotdodge>dsmash. I'd spotdodge>utilt (all of your dsmashes were shielded, but utilts wouldn't be).

- Speaking of utilt, you need more of it.

- You have to learn the timing to techroll the dthrow, or you're about to be in a world of hurt.

- That bthrow at 2:14? A uthrow would've killed him.

- You know how I said you should utilt after spotdodge, not dsmash? You shouldn't dsmash at all. You should be d/ftilting (this applies to basically all the times you used it, not in general).

- You seem to be DI'ing into his neutral-a. You should be DI'ing out.

- You use more tilts than most people I critique, but still not enough.

- Use more throws.

That's all for game #1.

Game #2:

First off, it would've helped if you'd had the matches in seperate vids. Cutting off the first 10 seconds is annoying...

- When you went to the rock stage, I'm like "If he doesn't do a jab/dtilt lock, I'm gonna scream." Good job on that, but I would've used a jab (does more damage, but maybe just my preference).

- You ended the lock WAY too early. Be cruel and do it for as long as you can.

- That was by far the most awesome mindgame I have ever seen after the lock (no sarcasm).

- Why were you feeding his bucket right after he lost his first stock? Seriously, that thing is overpowered. I once ate him just for the lulz, then he got 3 pieces of bacon and killed me at 66% with it. :confused:

- You had a few nice setups, like at 1:41 (could've followed with an fsmash), but didn't.

- Still not enough throws or tilts.

I'm not done yet, but I have to go for a bit. More critique on this game later...

For both matches (there is no intended harshness in this): have you heard of momentum canceling? It's a technique where you, surprisingly... cancel momentum. The best way for Kirby to do it is dair>jump>hammer, though fast-falled uair might also work for the dair.
 

DC

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
55
Thanks for the critiquing, Allion. I just wanted to comment on some of the stuff you said/questions you had. (Your stuff in italics)

- That bthrow at 2:14? A uthrow would've killed him.
That was actually a mistake on my part. I know the power of uthrow very well (lolbattlefield) but I guess I didn't react quick enough and did the wrong throw. I actually did this again in the second match where I did uthrow instead of fthrow at a low %. I'll work on this.

First off, it would've helped if you'd had the matches in seperate vids. Cutting off the first 10 seconds is annoying...
Yeah I actually wasn't the one recording. There was a guy doing the recording on his laptop and I guess he didn't realize that we started the game.

- When you went to the rock stage, I'm like "If he doesn't do a jab/dtilt lock, I'm gonna scream." Good job on that, but I would've used a jab (does more damage, but maybe just my preference).
How does the jab lock work? And yeah, I specifically picked Pokemon Stadium because I like to do this.

- You ended the lock WAY too early. Be cruel and do it for as long as you can.
Well I noticed that it seemed like he was starting to break out of it. It looked like he was starting to get back up or tech out of it or something. Not sure if that's even possible but I've never done it to G&W before so I thought it might have to do with his shape.

- Why were you feeding his bucket right after he lost his first stock? Seriously, that thing is overpowered. I once ate him just for the lulz, then he got 3 pieces of bacon and killed me at 66% with it.
Well I actually didn't even realize he could catch that (fail) and the second time is when I realized that he had caught both the first and the second. I know that for the future now.

For both matches (there is no intended harshness in this): have you heard of momentum canceling? It's a technique where you, surprisingly... cancel momentum. The best way for Kirby to do it is dair>jump>hammer, though fast-falled uair might also work for the dair.
Yes I have, this is another thing that I need to practice. I normally do it I guess my reaction time was a bit slow. I've heard that the best way to do it though is bair>fast fall>hammer though?

Thanks again.
 

TechnoMonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
836
Most of the time you got hit you were rushing to punish with a slow attack that wouldn't kill at does about the same damage as a grab, and a lot of the time against Game and Watch the best option is just to bounce out or jump up and down right next to him and land on his head. Your air movement is good but you tend to always go for the poke which can get you hit sometimes, so I'd say work on your ground game, and work on punishing with grabs.
 

A1lion835

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Lurking the Kirby Social thread with my rock buds.
DC, here's a little more critique and two answers:

Then jab lock is sort of vaguely defined, i.e. it can mean 2 things. One is like the laser lock; you get them into a position where they're in their "Ouch, I've just been hit hard onto the ground" position, do the first hit of your jab, walk forward, repeat. The second is where you start your jab with them trapped against the wall, like if you'd started your jab instead of dtilted and just kept holding it.

Second, the momentum canceling. A thread went up on the kirby boards about momentum canceling, and Gonzo said that dair>jump>air hammer was the best, so I trust him. He might've changed that though, iunno...

finishing the critique:

- When you were on the water stage on the pinwheel, I would've used rock and then slid (hopefully) onto him at least a few times.

- At 5:03ish, I wouldn't have canceled rock, but that might just be me.

- Speaking about that time, I would've gone offstage to try and gimp him for the win.

Also, do you have wifi? I'd be up for some brawls.
 

DC

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
55
Actually I don't even own a Wii. D: Only times I get to practice are at my friend's house.
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
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My main was originally Ike, but since I've always been a fan of the Kirby series I decided to give him a try.


- You need to be extremely aggressive vs G&W, but more careful than usual.
No! This is all I saw in that post and I was like..no!

Well, kind of.

You should NOT be too aggressive, because I'm sure most of us know by now, essentially all of Game and Watch's moves beat out essentially all of Kirby's when compared right next to each other. Playing defensively is probably one of your best options, and punishing his laggier moves. His Bair is pretty hard to punish, but it's possible.

.


Anyway, criticism. Not too much right now, I'm partway through match 1 and your Kirby looks good so far. Not making stupid mistakes like rolldodge spam like I do sometimes -_-

-Fthrow->jump and Forward Air works well at low/mid percents (you fthrew him at 12% and didn't follow up) especially against floaty characters like G&W.

-I'd say learn to tech/techroll G&W's dthrow, but if you don't have a way to practice it, that's tough. Here's a tip: "beep beep beep beep L"
When I listen, I hear 4 beeps and hit L where the 5th would be, and you get up as soon as you hit the ground.

Match 2:
- You ended the lock WAY too early. Be cruel and do it for as long as you can.

- That was by far the most awesome mindgame I have ever seen after the lock (no sarcasm).
haha, turning into a Stone on that slant, and that "valley" in general is something I do alll the time. It's great.
As for ending the lock too early...if you had grabbed and upthrew instead of uptilt, it would have ended his stock there. Oh well


-(I'm reading previous critique now) momentum cancelling...the best thing to do is Bair->fastfall. I do Uair out of habit, or Dair. I don't know why X_X
Probably because Uair is Captain Falcon's fastest move and I play him a lot :]

-Again, the best way to beat G&W is play pretty defensively, and punish. One of his easiest moves to punish is his Dair, it is so easy to see coming. Just make sure you block both the aerial hit, and the little shockwave it has when it hits the ground. Then grab, jab, or tilt.

-I don't know if you did, but pummel at least once or twice when you grab, unless he's like 25% or less. Some people can break out of it extremely fast..AlphaZealot always broke out of my grabs way earlier than I anticipated this weekend.

-Randomly Fsmashing, and hoping it hits, usually isn't a great idea in this matchup. Fsmash has a quick startup and great priority, but it has plenty of landing lag, so if you miss, he'll get you.

-Tilts and Bair are your friends in this matchup. I'm not saying you didn't use them, you did. They're just...really good in this matchup. Also, occasionally Dairs on top of him and uairs from below at an angle can be good. Final Cutter can be used in air vs. air combat to outprioritize some of his attacks, but it's slower than his moves, and punishable if you miss so be careful.

-4:09 in match 2. Should have just Inhaled, and attempted a Kirbycide.

- 4:37 - hammer to punish Dair? Good in theory, ridiculously hard to pull off in practice. Just shield his Dair. Shield the one at 4:39 too :p

- 5:39 - overpowered upsmash is overpowered.

G&W is a hard matchup. Tell me, how high did that G&W place in the tourney?

Here's a $1 moneymatch of me vs a G&W from this Friday, I win both matches, it might be a good example of what to do in this matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1EgIUqX59s

The G&W in your video and mine appear to be roughly around the same skill level... it's hard to tell because G&W is such an easy character to play and they all look the same >.>

4:54 - Upsmash beats Dair. Lolwut?
.
.
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What would happen if you stole G&W's power, and just spammed him with SAUSAGEFEST, and let him fill his darn Bucket? I think that would be fun.
Especially if the G&W doesn't know that his Bucket absorbs Kirby's power.
 

momochuu

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Momochuu
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3.25/5???


My Kirby Is Better
Well. =O

Since you have no videos up, and no one has ever heard of you, I'm afraid he's better by default my good sir. :colorful:
 

CaliburChamp

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I saw your Kirby in the tournament. It was pretty good when I was watching from a far. I was the guy playing the yellow Kirby in the brown plaid collar shirt and the sexy blue jeans lol. Unfortunately, I didn't use him much in the brackets. I mostly used Lucario and a bit of Metaknight, although I did use Kirby in one set, I failed cause I was matched up with Chaz's Marth, best Marth in FL.
I was owning everyone with Kirby in friendlies after I got knocked out of the tournament. I'd like to play your Kirby at Play N Trade, since I hear it's going to be a monthly tournament.
 

A1lion835

Smash Champion
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No! This is all I saw in that post and I was like..no!
Sorry... it was just, that guy seemed like a n00b G&W (no bucket canceling), but I forgot the "n00b" in that sentence. Trust me. Aggressive vs n00b G&W=WIN.

Edit:

What would happen if you stole G&W's power, and just spammed him with SAUSAGEFEST, and let him fill his darn Bucket? I think that would be fun.
Especially if the G&W doesn't know that his Bucket absorbs Kirby's power.
You seem to have missed this part of my post:

- Why were you feeding his bucket right after he lost his first stock? Seriously, that thing is overpowered. I once ate him just for the lulz, then he got 3 pieces of bacon and killed me at 66% with it. :confused:
 

ZesuBen

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Asdioh, despite my lack of experience, I'd like to point something out.

I find it cool how your matches were reverse color-coded with DC. He played a black and white Kirby against a cyan G&W, while you played a blue Kirby against a black G&W.

I thought it was cool...
 

DC

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
55
I saw your Kirby in the tournament. It was pretty good when I was watching from a far. I was the guy playing the yellow Kirby in the brown plaid collar shirt and the sexy blue jeans lol. Unfortunately, I didn't use him much in the brackets. I mostly used Lucario and a bit of Metaknight, although I did use Kirby in one set, I failed cause I was matched up with Chaz's Marth, best Marth in FL.
I was owning everyone with Kirby in friendlies after I got knocked out of the tournament. I'd like to play your Kirby at Play N Trade, since I hear it's going to be a monthly tournament.
lol Kirby vs. Marth. I played Chaz in a bunch of friendlys after the tournament and he beat me all but one time. His spacing is ridiculous and the wall he creates with fair is sick. I did manage to accidentally beat him one time on Frigate Orpheon by accident.

I'll see ya at the PNT tournament.
 

CaliburChamp

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lol Kirby vs. Marth. I played Chaz in a bunch of friendlys after the tournament and he beat me all but one time. His spacing is ridiculous and the wall he creates with fair is sick. I did manage to accidentally beat him one time on Frigate Orpheon by accident.

I'll see ya at the PNT tournament.
I should of counterpicked Frigate Orpheon in the brackets, instead I chose PS Melee against him. Yeah, the wall of F-airs was ridiculous, even when I side step dodged the first one, the second F-air would hit. I couldn't evade attacks without getting hit with F-air or side b. He just knows how to play against Kirby's really well, Chu Dat's Kirby almost lost to his Marth as well, I guess that's where he got his Kirby fighting experience from.

Anybody know how to punish a Marth that does short hop, F-air, F-air, D-tilt? It seems unpunishable for what Kirby has in his moveset.
The only thing I can think of is powershield the first hit of F-air, and grab, or dash grab.
 

DC

Smash Cadet
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Anybody know how to punish a Marth that does short hop, F-air, F-air, D-tilt? It seems unpunishable for what Kirby has in his moveset.
The only thing I can think of is powershield the first hit of F-air, and grab, or dash grab.
When I lost to him it was usually only by one stock, some times two. Camp camp camp and space bairs perfectly. You're going to get hit, a lot.

He's really good off stage, too, but he likes to stay there far too long and I killed him with a well timed dair>footstool a few times.
 

Asdioh

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Asdioh, despite my lack of experience, I'd like to point something out.

I find it cool how your matches were reverse color-coded with DC. He played a black and white Kirby against a cyan G&W, while you played a blue Kirby against a black G&W.

I thought it was cool...
You know, I noticed that too.


Marth is ridiculous vs. Kirby. :[

*cries emo tears*
 

CaliburChamp

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When I lost to him it was usually only by one stock, some times two. Camp camp camp and space bairs perfectly. You're going to get hit, a lot.

He's really good off stage, too, but he likes to stay there far too long and I killed him with a well timed dair>footstool a few times.
B-air spam sounds good. I was approaching from the ground too much. He 2 stocked my Kirby and MK. He is actually the only person who 2 stocked me in this tournament, in the brackets and friendlies. Oh well, it was my first brawl tournament. I should be getting better than 17th out of 49 next tournament.
 

ZesuBen

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I'm going to my first tournament soon. :D I hope to place fairly well.

I've been watching videos of a few of the people going. I am afraid of Dazwa. >.> I watched him play a Marth against a G&W. I couldn't watch the whole thing because then my teacher was like "This looks pretty interesting. Can I watch?" and tried to take my laptop away.

But it's mine. -.-
 

ZesuBen

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Ew. >.< Well, at least you know you'll do well. >.> I don't even have anyone to practice with.
 
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