Rant on those against Brawl hacking.

[B.W.]

Now some of you may already know, some people have been working on hacking certain things in Brawl to make it a bit more like Melee, or to just plain old make it more competitive worthy. It has been dubbed Brawl+ (not to say it's better than Brawl, but that is a matter of opinion all together).

I for one completely support this project. As a matter of fact I am, in a sense, a part of it (or at least I'd like to think so). Often laying down on how to fix glitches, and throwing out possibilities on how the game was programmed so we may be able to alter a few more things in the game. So far we have wave-dashing/Melee air dodging, and a variation of L-Canceling dubbed Shield (S)-Canceling (though in my opinion S-Canceling is far too easy to do).

Now here is where the rant comes in.

Through our 80 pages of the wave dashing thread I'd have to say 50 or 60 of them is stupid people coming in and start complaining "Just leave Brawl alone!" "Stop making people play it the way you're playing it!" and probably my least favorite of all "Melee is still there go play that!"

Okay, my answer to one, two and three. No, nobody told you you had to play it like this, and no.

We also constantly get reminded that it will never be tourney standard and that we should stop what we're doing. Honestly, I don't mind if this doesn't become tourney standard. I actually don't care at all. I just want some skill to come with my Smash. I'd also like it if I wasn't just playing a ******** game of hit tag and who's shielding skills are better.

Let's go into a few things that should be looked at about Brawl and its existence.

Last I checked, Melee was supposed to be the last Smash game to come out. I was ready to except that until they released an addition to the series. But why would Brawl come out if Melee was supposed to be the last in the series? Honestly I think it's because of the fact that Melee lasted those 7 years it did. Melee was supposed to be a party game, but people found more than what was expected. A reason to keep playing this game. What these people found were these "advanced techniques (ATs)"

Wavedashing and L-Canceling being the two main ones.

Now what people should realize is that BOTH of these were taken out of Brawl. Wavedashing was.. More understandable. But L-Canceling was taken out even though it was in both of the previous games. The only reason it was taken out was so that it skill could not be a factor. So that it could not be competitive.. But why take it out, and piss off over a thousand people? I mean when it comes down to it, the only reason Melee existed all those years, is because of us competitive players. We are the reason that a sequel was made. And what happens? We get **** on. A lot of people that play Brawl "competitively" (as that call it) picked up on the competitive community with Brawl. Okay, sure that's fine until people start coming "Grow up, stop playing Melee, it's dead."

This leads me to believe a two things. The first of these things is that these people were bad at Melee. A very big possibility. The second thing is that these people never played competitive Melee and possibly never played Melee at all. Because of this, they see Melee as outdated because it was for Gamecube, and was made in 2001. What makes me feel that this is why people constantly ***** about Melee players is that I've noticed that a lot of people that played Brawl first, Then played Melee and tried the things that are being worked on for Brawl+ actually like playing these games. The enjoy the wave dashing. They enjoy being able to combo. They enjoy having to practice to get better. So far, I've yet to see a single Brawl player come up with a legitimate reason as to why the gameplay in Brawl is better than the gameplay in Melee. The only thing anyone ever says is that "it has more content." These people obviously have never played a game with as much quality as Melee. Sure you have a large number of characters, but without these ATs, these characters become boring to play. You eventually run out of things to learn and it ends up coming down to what character can you play that will counter the other person's character.. (And the way it is now, Meta Knight counters everyone.)

Another complaint about Brawl+ is that people are saying "it will make Meta Knight more broken if we add hitstun." Now that's just completely stupid to say. Every character is getting the same changes. If anything it will make it so Meta Knight is possible to beat as he can be combo'd. This may actually save him from being banned as with ATs he most likely would end up being countered by some character. And if it doesn't save him from being banned.. Well he was on his way to being banned anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

So all you people that are telling us not to hack Brawl can suck my left one.

Us competitive Melee players have all the right to make this game as close to Melee as we wish. We've been waiting just as long.. No, we've been waiting longer than most of th Brawl players now. Because we were actually waiting for it for 7 years, unlike those of you who saw that it was coming out, and went on the internet, and found your ways to the SWF and AiB forums and decided "oh I'm going to play Brawl competitive now." And we Melee players got **** on. So now that we have a way to make it to our liking it's apparently wrong? I think not.

And lastly if it's not going to ever become tourney standard, why do you keep reminding us? We've admitted we're almost positive it will never be tourney standard and that the only tourneys for it would probably be local. I think people are afraid what we're doing will make Brawl+ the tourney standard, and I think the lot of Brawl has to constantly remind us because they don't want to have to go back to sucking as bad as they did in Melee.

And I really think the funniest part about it is. We didn't care if it were to become tourney standard or not. We just want a fun game to play. And if we have to alter the game's inards, then we will. We did not wait 7 years for a piece of **** game.

THIS RANT IS OVER HAVE A GOOD DAY!

 

[Cinder]

I posted it on H4x0RZ and I'm posting it again...

And you may wanna edit out that part about being a mod XD...you may be a mod on H4x0RZ, but last I checked...

But seriously, good stuff...and it IS the truth...aren't ya glad I talked ya into posting it ^^;

 

[B.W.]

I posted it on H4x0RZ and I'm posting it again...

And you may wanna edit out that part about being a mod XD...you may be a mod on H4x0RZ, but last I checked...

But seriously, good stuff...and it IS the truth...aren't ya glad I talked ya into posting it ^^;

Crap. I thought I did already.

**** it to hell.

EDIT: Fixed

 

[ranmaru]

Hehe, well, I support it too. All the better to make Brawl more competive. Although, I'd rather play Melee over Brawl. Almost around two years ago, I started playing Melee, thanks to my friend Jon-Paul. I was with a group a friends that were good, I was a total noob. I started to get better, but I didn't know what was 'PRO'. Haha, when I started college, I then noticed much better plays, whoo. Thanks to my friends there, I have gotten much better.

One reason I want to stick to Melee is because of Doctor Mario, others may be that it feels faster, and I'm already used to it. There are so many techniques to find to practice to get better (although I don't try to practice much techniques unless I feel I am a good enough player to do it).

And I really think the funniest part about it is. We didn't care if it were to become tourney standard or not. We just want a fun game to play. And if we have to alter the game's inards, then we will. We did not wait 7 years for a piece of **** game.

I wouldn't mind either. It would be nice locally though. ;p

 

[Cinder]

One reason I want to stick to Melee is because of Doctor Mario

*high fives*

I wouldn't mind either. It would be nice locally though. ;p

Hellz yeah...I'm thinkin' of hostin' a few...as long as there's no multiple airdodging (considering that they may pull the WD hack)

 

[Prancing Mad]

I was just wondering where to rant about how I don't enjoy brawl like I do melee. What a perfect spot. I would love to try brawl+. I also can't stand the multiple air-dodging, it makes air-characters too cheap. Agreed, very hard to combo in brawl. Actually I think the original was best for this (Kirby on Fox level mmmm tasty).

I also find that nobody feels right in brawl. I've tried to main like half the characters, and nobody feels quite right. My melee mains, Marth + Sheik feel all messed up. Marth is so not as good in the new one. ARGH. And online, people are so **** cheap. SO SO SO **** CHEAP AND BORING. I don't wanna sit there shielding and dodging for 10 minutes straight in a 3 stock battle, waiting for someone's timing to mess up. GAWD it looks like you're square-dancing. AHHHHHH

 

[Plum]

I prefer Brawl mainly because I like the slower pace as it allows more strategy and prediction to come into play IMO. Your opinions about that can be different but I feel like I use my mind more in Brawl.
Yeah, I was also not that good at Melee. I could always do well until my opponent used wavedashing. L-canceling was easy enough but I was too young to really play Melee at that level. Going back I could certainly pick it up and learn it to its fullest extent but I moved on and Brawl is too much in my liking.
I won't play Brawl + but I fully support it. People need to know that nothing will replace Brawl until another Smash comes out. Whatever fun new thing the Smash Boards comes out with will only be there as a side tournament and nothing else. There might be some large scale tournaments rarely for this as people will definitely participate but if you don't like it don't go to it. End of story.
Though Pichu was manlier than any character in Melee and I miss him

 

[A_man13]

I really wish I was able to play Melee competetivly. I'm honestly stuck in my house and the only way I could even hope to play something competetivly is via wifi. I'm not allowed to go to tournies (last I checked) and Melee dosen't have internet.

Having brawl a lot more melee like would be really nice. My only real complaint is the fact that A) no way to get it to patch and B) I would still be very let out on ATs and the like, but that is mainly due to my lack of melee skill in a competetive enviorment (which I was never part of).

 

[SkylerOcon]

If you guys just admit that you're trying to make Brawl Melee 2.0, I won't have a problem with it.

 

[JacobWins]

Melee veterans that play brawl deep down know that all they wanted from brawl was a melee with more characters and better graphics

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Instead of making Brawl more competitive, which I don't think it will catch on because I don't think any game has ever been hacked to become competitive, why not just have melee remain as the competitive one?

 

[TheWildcard]

brawl sucks.

 

[B.W.]

If you guys just admit that you're trying to make Brawl Melee 2.0, I won't have a problem with it.

We're really not. We're trying to make it into a better game. Period. It could be like Melee, it could be like 64, it could even be like a game we've never played before. Ideas constantly get tossed around.

Melee 2.0 was just the idea that started all the bigger thinking.

Instead of making Brawl more competitive, which I don't think it will catch on because I don't think any game has ever been hacked to become competitive, why not just have melee remain as the competitive one?

It's actually already started to catch on even though we're not even trying to think up ideas. And I would think you're right, this would probably the first, but we don't care if it catches on or not. We've got a decent sized group of people that are willing to play it for the sake of it being more fun.

Which is of course an opinion.

Melee will probably never die though, it took a break for a few months when Brawl came out, but it's still going strong, and I'll still play it. Besides, what's not fun about bending a game to your will while still keeping the system fair? It kind of gives you the feel that you're making your own game.

 

[victra♥]

I like the slower pace as it allows more strategy and prediction to come into play IMO.

Yeah, I was also not that good at Melee.

This seems evident in almost all of the 08's on smashboards. It really is a shame that a lot of them probably didn't get a chance to play Melee at a high level. If they did, they'll probably have a different opinion.

It's clear in smaller communities as well. Everyone in Alberta who played Melee competitively still prefer Melee way more. The only exceptions are those who sucked at Melee and those who never played Melee competitively. It sucks, but what can you do?

 

[Umby]

Tbh, I wouldn't consider hacking Brawl to have Melee similarities as making Brawl a better game, per say. That's just adding features that were present from Melee, a.k.a, attempting to make Melee 2.0.

If you were literally hacking to make Brawl a "better game," you'd probably hack it to fix some of the flaws that imbalance the game, perhaps such things as changing the properties of certain moves (more ending lag on Meta Knights dsmash, more range on Sonic's utilt, etc.).

Not that I have a problem with the hacking, but it seems to serve more purposes for fun in Brawl rather than to create a better game. Just because a game has the features of a better game doesn't necessarily make it any better itself.

 

[B.W.]

Tbh, I wouldn't consider hacking Brawl to have Melee similarities as making Brawl a better game, per say. That's just adding features that were present from Melee, a.k.a, attempting to make Melee 2.0.

If you were literally hacking to make Brawl a "better game," you'd probably hack it to fix some of the flaws that imbalance the game, perhaps such things as changing the properties of certain moves (more ending lag on Meta Knights dsmash, more range on Sonic's utilt, etc.).

Not that I have a problem with the hacking, but it seems to serve more purposes for fun in Brawl rather than to create a better game. Just because a game has the features of a better game doesn't necessarily make it any better itself.

Problem with hacking characters is you'd need to do it to everyone to make it even. It's not fair to alter one character and not do that rest, and that would be way too much code. There's a 256 line limit. So we're taking the next best solution.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I'm going to pick apart the things in your post that pissed me off.

Through our 80 pages of the wave dashing thread I'd have to say 50 or 60 of them is stupid people coming in and start complaining "Just leave Brawl alone!" "Stop making people play it the way you're playing it!" and probably my least favorite of all "Melee is still there go play that!"

But Melee is still there. You can still play it if you like it better.

We also constantly get reminded that it will never be tourney standard and that we should stop what we're doing. Honestly, I don't mind if this doesn't become tourney standard. I actually don't care at all. I just want some skill to come with my Smash. I'd also like it if I wasn't just playing a ******** game of hit tag and who's shielding skills are better.

All right then. But most of the people on the side of 'Brawl+' usually imply in there posts that they feel that it should be the tourney standard. Not saying that you do, just the vast majority of the 'Brawl+' crowd does.

Last I checked, Melee was supposed to be the last Smash game to come out. I was ready to except that until they released an addition to the series. But why would Brawl come out if Melee was supposed to be the last in the series? Honestly I think it's because of the fact that Melee lasted those 7 years it did. Melee was supposed to be a party game, but people found more than what was expected. A reason to keep playing this game. What these people found were these "advanced techniques (ATs)"

For somebody who claims to know so much about Melee, you really don't know much at all. Wavedashing was discovered before the games release. The development team kept it in because they believed it was something pretty cool.

Brawl was not released because Melee was made to be entirely casual and turned competitive. Melee had the option to make it more competitive because of the item switch.

And no company is dumb and stupid enough to poor millions of dollars into a new game because the last one in the series was 'o noez jaked by t3h hardcorez1!'. They made Brawl because Smash makes them a **** load of money. This is the same reason that a Smash 4 is inevitable.

The only reason it was taken out was so that it skill could not be a factor. So that it could not be competitive.

Brawl is a new game. L and Z cancelling were in Melee and 64 respectively. Brawl is not either of those games. Nobody is shallow enough to take a gameplay mechanic out just because of spite. Maybe Sakurai wanted to make in more competitive because landing lag causes the ability for you to be punished due to aerials.

But why take it out, and piss off over a thousand people? I mean when it comes down to it, the only reason Melee existed all those years, is because of us competitive players. We are the reason that a sequel was made. And what happens? We get **** on. A lot of people that play Brawl "competitively" (as that call it) picked up on the competitive community with Brawl. Okay, sure that's fine until people start coming "Grow up, stop playing Melee, it's dead."

No, Brawl was not made because of Melee players. Brawl was made because of one thing: Money. Money, money, money, money. Green, cold, hard, ****ing, cash.

Most Brawl players do not say 'Grow up, stop playing melee its dead'. Most of them don't care what game you play. Probably, the ones who do say it, only say it because you started saying that Brawls a ****ty game.

This leads me to believe a two things. The first of these things is that these people were bad at Melee. A very big possibility.

I don't even want to talk about this. This is just so much of a mindbogglingly stupid assumption that even if I did point out all the reasons that this is wrong, you wouldn't understand anyway. I'm not going to waste my time.

The second thing is that these people never played competitive Melee and possibly never played Melee at all. Because of this, they see Melee as outdated because it was for Gamecube, and was made in 2001. What makes me feel that this is why people constantly ***** about Melee players is that I've noticed that a lot of people that played Brawl first, Then played Melee and tried the things that are being worked on for Brawl+ actually like playing these games. The enjoy the wave dashing. They enjoy being able to combo. They enjoy having to practice to get better.

Brawl requires practice to get better, believe it or not. I wonder why Azen can still 2 stock people with his Lucario? Maybe because they don't practice as much?

I don't see Melee as outdated. I still play and have fun with Melee. Stop making silly assumptions.

So far, I've yet to see a single Brawl player come up with a legitimate reason as to why the gameplay in Brawl is better than the gameplay in Melee. The only thing anyone ever says is that "it has more content." These people obviously have never played a game with as much quality as Melee. Sure you have a large number of characters, but without these ATs, these characters become boring to play. You eventually run out of things to learn and it ends up coming down to what character can you play that will counter the other person's character.. (And the way it is now, Meta Knight counters everyone.)

Personal preference means everything. You like Melee, I like Brawl. Get over yourself and 'I've seen no legitimate reasons' because when it comes to having fun with a game, it really doesn't matter if one person sees a lack of hitstun bad or not. Personal preference determines who has more fun with what.

Another complaint about Brawl+ is that people are saying "it will make Meta Knight more broken if we add hitstun." Now that's just completely stupid to say. Every character is getting the same changes. If anything it will make it so Meta Knight is possible to beat as he can be combo'd. This may actually save him from being banned as with ATs he most likely would end up being countered by some character. And if it doesn't save him from being banned.. Well he was on his way to being banned anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

Yeah, he is banned anyway. People who don't use Brawl+ (the ones complaining about this) should shut up because this will never become the tourney standard.

Us competitive Melee players have all the right to make this game as close to Melee as we wish.

So, Melee 2.0? Yeah, that sounds about it.

We've been waiting just as long.. No, we've been waiting longer than most of th Brawl players now. Because we were actually waiting for it for 7 years, unlike those of you who saw that it was coming out, and went on the internet, and found your ways to the SWF and AiB forums and decided "oh I'm going to play Brawl competitive now." And we Melee players got **** on. So now that we have a way to make it to our liking it's apparently wrong? I think not.

BECAUSE ALL THOSE DARN CASUAL PLAYERS ARE SO UNIMPORTANT AND TOTALLY WEREN'T ALIVE BACK THEN, AMIRITE?

And lastly if it's not going to ever become tourney standard, why do you keep reminding us? We've admitted we're almost positive it will never be tourney standard and that the only tourneys for it would probably be local. I think people are afraid what we're doing will make Brawl+ the tourney standard, and I think the lot of Brawl has to constantly remind us because they don't want to have to go back to sucking as bad as they did in Melee.

Again with the people being bad in Melee that like Brawl? The only reason I continually say that it will never become tourney standard is because many people in the Brawl+ crowd continually imply or outright say that it should.

And I really think the funniest part about it is. We didn't care if it were to become tourney standard or not. We just want a fun game to play. And if we have to alter the game's inards, then we will. We did not wait 7 years for a piece of **** game.

I'm going to have fun with this one. So you waited seven years for Brawl. Alright, Melee came out on December 3rd. Brawl came out March 9th. So technically, you had three months of fun with melee then got bored and was in anticipation for Brawl. That said, I know you didn't. I'm just being a smartass with you right now.

And if you don't care, don't care. Have fun with Brawl+. Just stop implying that it should be the tourney standard (again, not saying you do, but a lot of the Brawl+ crowd does), and that you're not trying to make Melee 2.0

 

[cultofrubik]

lol brawl. ^^

Yes, people that like Brawl+ probably like Melee. Thus it makes sense for us wanting something along the lines of Melee-ish. Call it Melee 2.0, why not.

Of course people that like something are going to WANT that something to be a tournament standard somewhere in their thoughts. You like Brawl right? Aren't you glad it's the competitive standard?

What Project was implying about us "Melee players" is that we played Melee over and over again. We love it, we loved it. So while we played it, we were continually thinking "OMG I CAN'T WAIT TILL BRAWL COMES OUT!!!"

Thus comes the '**** on.'

We probably played the game a lot more than most people. [i wonder y] We absolutely love Smash. We probably were anticipating the new Smash a lot longer than most brawl players that enjoy the game. Brawl turned out to not be real Smash. We don't like Brawl. Brawl+ seems/feels like Smash. We like Brawl+. We can want Brawl+ to be competitive as much as we want.

Thus our dissenting. After all, we don't like ****.

 

[ranmaru]

Also, I got to play Brawl BEFORE it came out, and guess what, that was the time I joined, oh yeah. I then pre-ordered the game, it ****ed me over because it took the money at the time it came out.

Anyways, I left it at my friends house, who only had a Wii but no games, so bam, we went over there. I left it there forever, and I don't care about getting it back. ;3

I'm here at home practicing my Melee, hoping to find people to play around me. :3

 

[cultofrubik]

I won my copy of Brawl. Worst Melee tournament prize ever.

 

[Cinder]

Probably, the ones who do say it, only say it because you started saying that Brawls a ****ty game.

No...just...no...I've seen so many trolls come into the Melee boards unprovoked and flame Melee...don't even TRY to pin the blame on us...

 

[Redson]

Cinder, I've seen so many trolls come from the MELEE boards UNPROVOKED and FLAME BRAWL. Don't try to pin the blame on us either. Blame it on the immature trolls who inhabit Smash Boards.

I don't know why we all can't be mature about this and accept it. They are just trying to make a better game by their standards. Let em, it's not like it'll become a tournament thing. Just something on the side and for fun. Seriously. Calm down people. I personally like the idea of Brawl+ on the side of Brawl. I loved SSB, Loved SSBM, and I love Brawl. When I get to play Brawl+, I'm pretty sure I'll need new pants.

 

[ranmaru]

I won my copy of Brawl. Worst Melee tournament prize ever.

I'm sorry for you.

 

[cultofrubik]

Oh don't worry. It will definitely BE a tournament thing. and ^^well, I guess I didn't have to pay for it...

 

[Cinder]

Cinder, I've seen so many trolls come from the MELEE boards UNPROVOKED and FLAME BRAWL. Don't try to pin the blame on us either. Blame it on the immature trolls who inhabit Smash Boards.

Oh, I'm sorry...did I say I was blaming you? I'm sorry, but I can't help but get a little defensive when someone tries to unfairly put the blame on us...

But yes, I do agree...it's because of these ******** trolls (you know who you are)...

 

[Redson]

Oh don't worry. It will definitely BE a tournament thing. and ^^well, I guess I didn't have to pay for it...

Players like you annoy me, sorry. It's not the fact that you want Brawl+ to be a tournament thing, no. I know plenty of people like that. It's the fact that you're so smug about it and love to flame the original Brawl for all of its flaws. I seem like a generic brawl*** because of this, I know, but seriously, and I just want to clarify:

BRAWL. IS. NOT. MELEE. Stop whining about how a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME is NOTHING LIKE the other one.

GOD, I don't even know how to EXPLAIN My rage upon hearing stuff like that. It's completely unprovoked, too, I know. But that kind of stuff grinds my gears so much that I just CAN'T contain myself. While I support the creation of Brawl+ (I think everyone has the right to play the game how they want) saying something like that is just...no respect towards a game that was MADE for you people. Sure, it may have not been as great as Melee, but it's the thought that counts, RIGHT?

Edit; HAHAHA I CONTRADICTED MYSELF. Sakurai...thinking about the gamers...heh...heheh...sorry about that.

 

[B.W.]

I'm going to pick apart the things in your post that pissed me off.

And due to me having too much time on my hands I'll reply to all of them.

But Melee is still there. You can still play it if you like it better.

Yes. We can. And most of us probably will. But it's not gonna stop us from hacking Brawl.

All right then. But most of the people on the side of 'Brawl+' usually imply in there posts that they feel that it should be the tourney standard. Not saying that you do, just the vast majority of the 'Brawl+' crowd does.

I personally don't. A lot of the newer people coming in are saying it will, I can tell you that, but the small group that started this whole thing couldn't care less. Make Brawl a more competitive game, yeah sure. But we really doubted it would become standard in the first place.

Though there have been smaller tourneys playing with some of the hacks we've got already.

For somebody who claims to know so much about Melee, you really don't know much at all. Wavedashing was discovered before the games release. The development team kept it in because they believed it was something pretty cool.

Brawl was not released because Melee was made to be entirely casual and turned competitive. Melee had the option to make it more competitive because of the item switch.

And no company is dumb and stupid enough to poor millions of dollars into a new game because the last one in the series was 'o noez jaked by t3h hardcorez1!'. They made Brawl because Smash makes them a **** load of money. This is the same reason that a Smash 4 is inevitable

I never said I "know so much about Melee." That was something that you decided I felt.

I already knew that wave dashing was discovered before release. That's old news. But even if the development team discovered it, the players had to re-discover it. It's not like someone working on the game went out and said "yeah you can do this if you air dodge toward the ground before barely leaving it."

And it's HIGHLY probable that Brawl came because Melee had been played for such a long time. Look at the gap between 64 and Melee. 1999 and 2001. Two years.. Now look at the gap between Melee and Brawl. Seven years..

Also Sakurai even left HAL because he was tired of the fact that everything from them had to have a sequel. He even said "It was tough for me to see that every time I made a new game, people automatically assumed that a sequel was coming."

Brawl is a new game. L and Z cancelling were in Melee and 64 respectively. Brawl is not either of those games. Nobody is shallow enough to take a gameplay mechanic out just because of spite. Maybe Sakurai wanted to make in more competitive because landing lag causes the ability for you to be punished due to aerials.

No, Brawl is not either of those games. It is a different game. But he already stated that he "hates the competitive gaming community."

Also I fail to see how taking out lag canceling and replacing it with something that goes faster than Melee's halved lag makes the game more competitive. All that did was make the game far easier to play, and it rendered moves from either straight useless, to highly situational.

No, Brawl was not made because of Melee players. Brawl was made because of one thing: Money. Money, money, money, money. Green, cold, hard, ****ing, cash.

Right.. Which is why it took seven years to make Brawl even though 64 and Melee only had a two year gap. Melee and 64 were also completely different and had more content, so that's definitely not a factor as to why it took so long.

Most Brawl players do not say 'Grow up, stop playing melee its dead'. Most of them don't care what game you play. Probably, the ones who do say it, only say it because you started saying that Brawls a ****ty game.

You apparently were not here when Brawl had first come out. Many '08ers would flame the hell out of Melee players when we explained why Melee was better than Brawl. A matter of opinion, yes. But just because we state it doesn't mean we should get flamed. We were just trying to convince some people to come back to our side. How do you think religion works?

Of course that's long passed, and the flames have died down, but there are some that still insist on causing trouble, though they try to find ways around not being banned.

I don't even want to talk about this. This is just so much of a mindbogglingly stupid assumption that even if I did point out all the reasons that this is wrong, you wouldn't understand anyway. I'm not going to waste my time.

Notice I said it's a possibility and it very well could be. It doesn't have to apply to all players either.

I've already stated that most of these players never played competitive Melee, which is most likely the number one reason. Mainly because some of those that started with Brawl, and end up picking up Melee usually end up liking Melee more. And some of them even like the hacks that we've got so far.

Brawl requires practice to get better, believe it or not. I wonder why Azen can still 2 stock people with his Lucario? Maybe because they don't practice as much?

I don't see Melee as outdated. I still play and have fun with Melee. Stop making silly assumptions.

Ever notice that most really good players in Brawl were really good players in Melee or 64? This is probably because Melee and 64 both had more depth than Brawl. They're used to having to think with their head as opposed to the people just picking it up who still haven't learned to not zone out while playing.

In Brawl you can practice all you want, but face it. Thanks to the fact that Brawl lacks the freedom of movement Melee has, as well as the balance between offense and defense, practicing won't help anyone much. You can learn to time your air dodges better in Brawl, and that's about it. There's no combos, and most kills are either done by something really ********. The characters are also incredibly unbalanced. You see more Meta Knight's in Brawl than you saw Fox's in Melee.

Personal preference means everything. You like Melee, I like Brawl. Get over yourself and 'I've seen no legitimate reasons' because when it comes to having fun with a game, it really doesn't matter if one person sees a lack of hitstun bad or not. Personal preference determines who has more fun with what.

Thanks for proving me saying "I've seen no legitimate reasons."

Yeah, he is banned anyway. People who don't use Brawl+ (the ones complaining about this) should shut up because this will never become the tourney standard.

I believe I've already covered this, but just to remind you. The starting group didn't care, and some people are already starting to hold tourney's for Brawl+.

So, Melee 2.0? Yeah, that sounds about it.

If we can pull that off. From the way it's going though we can't since Brawl is so bad that we have to alter many different things to make it such.

Hell at the moment we're not even caring about making it more like Melee. For all we know we'll be making it far from any other Smash Bros. game. Only time will tell.

BECAUSE ALL THOSE DARN CASUAL PLAYERS ARE SO UNIMPORTANT AND TOTALLY WEREN'T ALIVE BACK THEN, AMIRITE?

What's this have to do with anything? They could be as alive as they want to be, they definitely weren't "waiting" for this game. They just saw it was announced and bought it when it was released. Some competitive players were hoping for a new Smash Bros. game for way longer than it was announced, though I can't say I was one of them.

Again with the people being bad in Melee that like Brawl? The only reason I continually say that it will never become tourney standard is because many people in the Brawl+ crowd continually imply or outright say that it should.

Name one person that's said that it should. So far I've seen no one say anything about it should being tourney standard. More competitive yes. But not tourney standard.

I'm going to have fun with this one. So you waited seven years for Brawl. Alright, Melee came out on December 3rd. Brawl came out March 9th. So technically, you had three months of fun with melee then got bored and was in anticipation for Brawl. That said, I know you didn't. I'm just being a smartass with you right now.

And if you don't care, don't care. Have fun with Brawl+. Just stop implying that it should be the tourney standard (again, not saying you do, but a lot of the Brawl+ crowd does), and that you're not trying to make Melee 2.0

Why people assume we're trying to make Melee 2.0 still confuses me. Just because the first code to spring the idea of using codes to make Brawl more competitive was a wave dashing one, doesn't mean we're trying to make Brawl into Melee.

As a matter of fact, Phantom Wings, the person responsible for many of our codes, even said himself that he didn't make the code to make the game Melee. He made it because he figured it'd be something fun to do.

 

[Redson]

Lole@Skyler, you sound a wee bit worse than me. :D

Think about Brawl+ as playing with items. It'll never be standard, but some people will have tournaments involving them on the side. Some people will like it, some people wont.

Needs moar F-tilt.

 

[ranmaru]

What's this have to do with anything? They could be as alive as they want to be, they definitely weren't "waiting" for this game. They just saw it was announced and bought it when it was released. Some competitive players were hoping for a new Smash Bros. game for way longer than it was announced, though I can't say I was one of them.

I think Brawl was made for people to just randomly pick it up and Buy it. Thats why it was announced, I believe. People thought "OMFG BRAWL" and bought it. Also all that waiting they made us do, that could have been a factor too, or maybe not. I also thought that, but then I sort of regretted it. I keep on practicing Melee, so what, I joined in 08, but Around Feb, after my second Tournie. ;3

 

[B.W.]

I think Brawl was made for people to just randomly pick it up and Buy it. Thats why it was announced, I believe. People thought "OMFG BRAWL" and bought it. I also thought that, but then I sort of regretted it. I keep on practicing Melee, so what, I joined in 08, but Around Feb, after my second Tournie. ;3

This guy is proof that not all '08ers are ignorant *****. SWF's new guys need to be more like Sumo here.

 

[Redson]

This guy is proof that not all '08ers are ignorant *****. SWF's new guys need to be more like Sumo here.

/truth. Sumo explained things in a calm manner lole. Unlike moi. I get too easily wound up at this stuff.

Keep up the Brawl+. I really want to see this in action.

(Ike+Wavedashing=PROFIT!!!)


Needs moar F-tilt.

 

[B.W.]

/truth. Sumo explained things in a calm manner lole. Unlike moi. I get too easily wound up at this stuff.

Keep up the Brawl+. I really want to see this in action.

(Ike+Wavedashing=PROFIT!!!)


Needs moar F-tilt.

So long as you admit it. And bad news is, wave dash may be taken out.. Though this isn't really the place to be discussing things.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200084

Lurk there if you want to stay updated on our conversations.

 

[ranmaru]

Yes, I am here to actually make friends with people, if they like Brawl, Melee, or either one. Also, I am a pacifist, I always am neutral.

Thanks guys, I appreicate that. <3

 

[FooltheFlames]

Yeah id love the idea of a samsh 4, Brawl 2.5 thing, but then id also be tempted yo make Jigglys rest stronger or link recovery better ya know.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

I guess I will stick my opinions on from the first page...

Melee dosen't have internet.

Nintendo should release it on the Wii with WiFi. Of course, I guess lag would ruin it with all the precision.

Having brawl a lot more melee like would be really nice.

Definitely.


I have no opinion for SSBB and Brawl+ (<--is a nice name).

 

[Vaniix Raiser]

What I like about Brawl: Moar characters and stages, picking items up while running/air dodging, better tether recoveries...that's about it.

Other than that, I support it. I've recently picked up Melee again (and it feels good to play Link and Sheik good again, stupid Gale Boomerange). I've never had the patience or justification (in my mind) to learn wavedashing, but it's danged hard to learn, and props to you guys that can use it well.

Despite my support, I can really only see "pure" Smash games getting into big tournaments, but that's already been discussed, so I don't quite understand why I mention it now.

 

[Zeonix]

OMG, You are so right. I hate argueing with all of my dumb freinds who keep saying "Brawl is so mcuh better then Melee". Well it's not cus IT DOESN"T TAKE NEARLY AS MUCH SKILL!!! The "Non-competitive" people who play melee and brawl will always say that brawl is better. But come on. Anyone who knows about the A-T's obvoiusly will say that Melee is better by far. So If someone says Brawl is better, just ignore them, they don't know what they are talking about. Yeah so they have new characters and stages. Nintendo was stupid to take out A-T's and slow down the game.

 

[Espy Rose]

So long as you admit it. And bad news is, wave dash may be taken out.. Though this isn't really the place to be discussing things.

That's a relief. I never was a big fan of the wavedashing in Brawl+. It felt just a wee bit strange and all.

Of course, if they could fix that up, I wouldn't mind it in the least. I'm also neutral about the entire issue, and I'm curious as to which way it's headed.

Nice read.

 

[Umby]

I've recently picked up Melee again (and it feels good to play Link and Sheik good again, stupid Gale Boomerange).

Exactly how I felt, and one of many reasons why I couldn't main Link in Brawl like I did in Melee.

 

[Discolicious]

Well, I can see 3 other viable positions on brawl+ not including the melee/64 community (and people from those communities who actually like brawl well....you don't count :D)

People who were terrible at melee/jealous/their friends beat them all the time - Play brawl and die supporting it because it gives them an honest chance to win against smash vets/better players when all semblance of skill/speed/finesse go out the window. Now they see Brawl+ : An interesting take on two very competitive games (Fine, I'll come out and say it, it's pretty much melee 2.0 deal with it) and they think "Oh no! I couldn't shffl in melee and now I won't be the best in X small town when Brawl+ gains recognition!" Ultimately, this results hostility towards new ideas and bitter memories of that brutal 3-stocking they got at some melee tournament.

Casual Players - Hopefully they will just keep on trucking, playing at their friends house with pokeballs and party balls full of bombs on, watching the madness take place. It's not like Nintendo is gonna update their console to brawl+ and make them play it.

For the people who are new to smash - They never got involved with the smash community. (Although I didn't play semi-competitive melee till late 2006) They can't stand it when people diminish their slow/campy brawl wins with tales from the melee era. But sadly, they themselves are still competitive people and this also causes hostility. (imagine winning and people still telling you your terrible...this also happens when you play as Metaknight...lol) New ideas are very scary to the average person thus resulting in a constant stream of "Brawl+ will never be the standard, stop trying to make it melee 2.0, leave brawl alone blah blah blah".

There are a ton of new names in the smash community when it comes to brawl (Who ever heard of Dojo? not to trash him he's really good lol) and I guess it would make sense that brawl enthusiasts would like to see a new community form, with new top players. But ultimately, pulling off crazy combos and watching M2K play melee on youtube is reason enough for me to support any brawl+ project. People refuse to play melee citing it as "outdated" or say "my favorite character is in brawl!" so all Brawl+ is trying to do is keep the new content of brawl and combine it with the flare, spirit and competitively advanced nature of melee.

Feel free to respond as necessary and the next person who says stop trying to make it melee 2.0...well I'll probably be banned for how much I flame you.