R.O.B Stage Discussion. Currently Retrospecting!

[Crome]

@ Pazx , I can't think of any characters who can outcamp ROB to be honest.
I think Smashville is pretty good for a zoning-focused ROB. The moving platform doesn't give the opponent enough options to really make zoning hard, and it really helps with combos and juggles, which is nice for us, considering that our up-air is pretty monstrous. It also helps with range of gyros, considering their trajectory. It's one of my favorite stages for ROB, next to Duck Hunt.

The Links can. You have to get into their mid zone to play them effectively. You cannot long range camp those guys.

-Im pretty sure the ceiling is lower (correct me if I'm wrong)

It has the same ceiling. Town & City is slightly smaller. (Source) However since it has a platform, you can still u throw kill earlier than FD.

 

[Lizard_Buttock]

From the looks of things right now, Halberd and Kongo Jungle might end up being banned from most stagelists. Personally, I'd keep them on there until an official ruleset is made, but we should still consider that possibilty.

 

[Crome]

From the looks of things right now, Halberd and Kongo Jungle might end up being banned from most stagelists. Personally, I'd keep them on there until an official ruleset is made, but we should still consider that possibilty.

I really hope halberd isn't banned. It has the lowest ceiling in the game.

 

[zakzedd]

I'll add that the platform frequently allows me to get some breathing room from the opponent whilst it's offstage with me. The opponent can't approach at all if they aren't pikachu sized since the gyro has a slightly downward angle, covering 3/4s of the stage, with drop down fair/laser covering the rest. Smashville is my starter of choice.

 

[Byxis]

Guys, I think if Peach's Castle 64 gets legalized, we should look into it. That stage is perfect for ROB jank and the bottom slab that moves back and forth at the bottom of the stage is basically ROBicide city.

 

[Crome]

Sorry for not updating in a while! School just started, and there was a tournament this weekend.

We're now doing Lylat Cruise!

I'll add Peach's Castle 64 to the OP later.

 

[Pazx]

IMO if we ignore Halberd (because that's our best stage in like... some matchups?) then Lylat and Duck Hunt are our best stages. If it's a matchup where the size and openness of Duck Hunt is detrimental then Lylat seems like the obvious choice. Here's why:

Platforms are incredible for trapping landings and juggling. Utilt, uair, usmash are all stupid good on this stage. If you get your opponent above you make them pay for it. One thing to keep in mind particularly on this stage is that ROB's hurtbox is so dumb that he'll often get hit by people landing on the platform above him with an aerial, especially if he's charging or releasing an up-smash.

Tilting and slants are literally non-issues imo, they mess up other characters more than us as long as you don't mess up your autocancels by moving against the slope whilst SH uair/bair/nair-ing. The slopes obviously change how the laser reflects but if you understand it it'll be fine, one cooler aspect of the slanted stage is that you can have Gyros slowly move towards the edge.

The edges are great for uair sharking. The edges in general are great for ROB (who can also go under the stage) because his recovery doesn't require immense precision and doesn't get screwed by Lylat being Lylat.

Lylat is my go-to stage when Halberd and Duck Hunt are banned.

 

[KingChaos]

Lylat is a very interesting stage for R.O.B. imo it is very good but you need to spend time practicing on it. Keep in mind the suicide throw during edge guard attempts like rolling behind a read on their standard get up option. The way the stage tilts messes with a lot of other characters projectiles more so than a R.O.B. main that practices the stage. You don't have to worry about stage spikes nearly as much and the slants still can jank some characters recoveries though you shouldn't pick it based on that, just something to keep in mind. Platforms are good to help landings and R.O.B.'s up smash covers them very well if you read your opponents landing on one. Get good at using the stage tilts to plan your camping strategy or approach/gryo game. What I mean by this is if it is tilted up you can easily fire a gyro right in front of you and pick it up, or on the flip side if the stage is tilted down and away you can fire that sucker with the range of it being fully charged when it isn't at all. Another useful thing with the gyro in hand and the lay out of the stage is you can throw it down out of a glide toss or just standard to create some janky pressure and sneak in a gyro confirm into whatever you want. (I enjoy doing this) Laser is very versatile and can be utilized different ways depending on the slants as well. R.O.B. can angle fsmash and ftilt accordingly if need be which also makes lylat a great pick. Over all I say if you are comfortable here and want to go somewhere your opponent likely isn't comfortable this is a great stage for R.O.B.

 

[Crome]

I'm kind of neutral on the stage. I like taking Falcon and such there, as it doesn't really mess with us. The slants have pros and cons, but mostly pros. Like shooting the gyro right in front of us, gyro slightly moving to the slant, the low platforms, etc. I would be very salty if I accidentally killed myself while it slants though.

 

[Crome]

Hello fellow R.O.B mains, I am not particularly happy with the results this thread has been getting. I'm not sure as to why we only get about 3-5 posts per discussion, but I'd like to change that. How can I encourage discussion more? What do you guys think I can do?

In light of this, after we discuss Duck Hunt we will be re visiting past stages. Hopefully this will help us get more discussion going and have more accurate descriptions. If anyone has any input they'd like to give on the descriptions of each stage in the OP, it'd be greatly appreciated.

 

[Peppermint1201]

In my opinion, ROB's success on Duck Hunt relies heavily on the matchup. For example, if he's playing against a character like Ness or Little Mac that benefits from small side blast zones, it's not worth being picked. Similarly, this stage is greatly in Olimar's favor due to the blast zones and long horizontal length. If ROB benefits from the stage more than his opponent, (and a lot of times he does) it is a strong choice, due to the long horizontal length (how beneficial this is depends on the ROB's playstyle), and the tree and bush platforms, which can be sharked and upsmashed by ROB respectively. All in all, typically a strong choice but matchup-dependent.

 

[Crome]

This stage is great for ground based rush down characters like Fox and Falcon. The irregular platforms really mess with their combos and help us land. Same with ZSS, we can use the platforms to get out of her up air - up b strings.

But as peppermint said, this isn't a universally good stage for us. Sheik, Charizard, and other characters will gladly kill us off the side. If the sheik is better than you, do not take them here. Only go here against characters that rely on u air combos and platforms.

 

[Constadin]

I feel that duck hunt's side blast zones are deceivingly long, although I have absolutely no information.
I like playing vs projectile characters here due to how wide this stage is and because rob's projectile play if performed correctly is superior to most of the rest zoners. Also these kind of characters (link, samus etc) , I have noticed on this particular stage, that prefer to rely heavily on projectiles even when the situation calls for melee engaging. It happens to me as well when playing mewtwo, I blame the impression one creates that the more space he has the safer he feels to charge and shoot. Under these circumstances not only the projectile game is in our favor, but also our side b might be suprisingly not useless (could not even call it usefull ).
I would take this stage anyday against fd, battlefield and castlesiege (which I rly hate as rob for some unknown yet reason).

 

[Pazx]

Duck Hunt = good when you like wide spaces more than your opponent does (ie. when you can camp your opponent out). I don't have much else to say about this stage, I like it in most matchups although I probably wouldn't take somebody who is both more mobile and has the intention of running away here (heavily dependent on playstyle but some Sonics, Pikas, etc). I'm not a huge fan of how close the blastzones feel off the sides and top, it might just be placebo but if it's not it isn't really good for a character with a flexible recovery like ROB. Straight downwards edges can lead to some cool gyro stuff I guess. Beep boop + dog = cheese.

All in all I really like DH but it's probably just a worse T&C for us, they both fill similar roles (flat + long + not FD) and it really comes down to making the most of the platform layouts. I mentioned it in my previous post but I think our best 4 stages are Halberd (duh), Lylat, DH and T&C so despite this post being somewhat pessimistic I definitely still like this stage and think it's excellent for us.

 

[Jams.]

Duck Hunt plays like FD in 90% of matchups. The only matchup I can think of that differs significantly is . If he ever leaves this stage open, feel free to counterpick it and go for the fairly easy timeout. Otherwise, the same rules apply as FD. This is a good stage when you want to zone or camp the opponent, though I usually prefer FD (or an omega) or T&C.

A quick overview of some differences between those stages and Duck Hunt from ROB's perspective:

• According to this thread, Duck Hunt has the same height and depth as FD (high ceiling/lower stage are myths). The stage itself is a bit bigger than FD, but the edges are not any closer to the blastzones. This just clears up some common misconceptions about this stage's blastzones.
  
• Walls let characters with wall jumps recover more easily, and players can potentially tech the gyro-spike ledge set-up. It's also harder to clip people with gyro sitting on the edge of the stage.
• Ducks block most projectiles, but not laser. Sometimes comes into play in matchups like Ness where they can stop PK Thunder harass, or Sheik to prevent bouncing fish in neutral. They can also let you obtain gyro more easily.
• Right bush is the perfect height for uthrow.
• The tree branches are some of the closest platforms to the upper blastzone amongst the legal stages. Sometimes you'll get lucky with beep boop and they can't airdodge out because of the tree. Other times Rosalina or Charizard kill you super early. However, tree shenanigans can be avoided pretty easily from my experience.
• The grass conceals gyro and can sometimes let you land lasers or gyro since they can't see your animations. Not really a big factor though.
• The dog can interrupt gameplay pretty frequently if you aren't paying attention to when and where it will appear.

 

[Constadin]

and players can potentially tech the gyro-spike ledge set-up

Speaking of which, has anyone ever tech this? Is it possible? I think it is not since the setup is performed next to the wall and brings the opponent so close to it making it untechable.

 

[KingChaos]

There are many reasons why I love duck hunt for R.O.B. and is my go to counter pick against most characters. First there is the space the stage provides which R.O.B loves. Then there is the platform layout in which the tree can help net you some free beep boops if they air dodge sometimes they end up getting lag accidentally landing on the tree where you can easily shark them off the top. Another thing the tree provides to make it so good is a landing option or at least to fake a landing option when recovering high which R.O.B. absolutely has to do in some match ups. On the other side of the stage we have the perfect platform to catch roll's from the ledge and use our upthrow to kill them much quicker then on FD the next flattest stage at our disposal. I like how the walls on the stage are just straight up and down so I don't have to worry about getting stage spiked as much (though i'm pretty good at teching anyways) I just find as R.O.B. I don't get too many of those myself so it is nice to just go to stages where they can't do it to me for free easy gimps that really don't need to happen. Despite popular belief I'm pretty sure the side blast zones are pretty large and not close in like a lot of people think meaning we live for very long still if played correctly and prefer to kill off the top anyways which is either the same or slightly lower than FD's so that is a bonus. The thing that makes the sides seem shorter is that you go into the magnifying glass bubble sooner than you do most stages in this game. I find it helps to net you more laser and gyro kills if your good at aiming at the bubble. I also enjoy shooting unsuspecting victims from the blast zones while I try to recover easier. A laser coming from the bubble is shocking to most players and will hit more than it should a lot of the time. A lot of people don't bother air dodging not seeing it is about to really hit them. Last but not least the thing I love most about the stage is using the ducks and the dog to help set things up like up airs if I know the dog is coming and I successfully baited and approach or just shooting the ducks with the gyro to get it into my hands easier without having to leave the space I have secured as my camping zone and with gryo in hand R.O.B.'s camp game gets way better. Morale of my review of the stage is if your not using it use it! Provided this fits your playstyle and the match up at hand which is obviously going to be one in which you need or want to camp. I feel if your playing this stage like FD your doing it wrong. Defensive play for the most part is advised.

 

[nintendonaut]

KingChaos has really good points. Seems like he really knows the stage well. Yeah, in my experience Duck Hunt is an overall decent stage for most matchups. Especially those in which you want to play campy. I agree with some of the others in the thread that the side blast zones are actually deceptively big. For that reason, I think this stage is actually a pretty decent one to pick against Sheik, just because you can zone harder and survive longer.

 

[Crome]

Added DuckHunt comments, I'm really pleased with the amount of comments I got this time. If there is anything I should change, let me know.

Sorry for the delay, but school and stuff.
Now we're discussing: Halberd.

 

[BoTastic!]

I hate Halberd as a competitive stage and Im glad that its getting banned in multiple regions including my own.

However with that being said, I think Halberd is ROB's best stage and your opponent should always ban it vs us, lol.

 

[Crome]

My region bans it as well, but I disagree with it being R.O.B's best stage. Not bad, but it has some major cons with R.O.B. The main platform is in the middle and is so low, it's hard to land on it. R.O.B also has issues with landing, so any ceiling shenanigans you want to abuse, they can abuse just as well if not better.

 

[BoTastic!]

I think Halberd works way too well for low % beep boop kills. During the transformation transitions, ROB could always go for the ledge and shark as another option to get back on stage safely.

 

[Cylent]

Halberd can allow for early kills with ROB. And once you land on the ship you have a bit more room to play defensively.
I don't really like the map, but it has it's advantages.

 

[Jams.]

Just going to give a short write-up, since the stage is now banned in my region as well.

• Despite all the quirks of this stage, its most defining element is the short ceiling IMO. It's a great pick against any character that has worse vertical kill power than ROB, which is most characters. \o/
• Don't pick this versus characters with superior vertical kill power such as and . You will have a bad time.
• In my experience, the stage hazards rarely affect the match significantly if both players know what they're doing. It usually just results in a bunch of resets to neutral. Always SDI out of the laser if it hits you.
  
• You can shark on this stage, though sharking isn't nearly as strong as Brawl so I don't think it's a big deal.
• The stage layout makes it hard to land, but also make maintaining stage control easier (though not to the same extent as Battlefield).

This stage is pretty polarizing. Most players will likely ban this stage against ROB in fear of early beep boop kills.

 

[nintendonaut]

It's banned in my scene now too. I'm actually not a fan, because I don't like the way the gyros get hung up on the slants, a lot like Lylat. Plus, stage hazards are blahhhh. But I mean--A low ceiling is always going to be an advantage no matter what.

 

[mourinhosgum]

We actually are unbanning halberd in my scene now. I love this stage for ROB as the low ceilings set up for early beep-boop kills and usmash oos kills. The slant on the main platforms adds extra angles to shoot your laser and can even kill at angles ROB can't usually reach, and if you're opponent doesn't expect it they're good as dead.

The above platform combined with the low ceiling sets up for early uthrow kills too. Also, you can use short hop uairs and utilts to poke shield and get an early kill on their.

The slant under the ship catches most characters recoveries too and leads to early SD's at times that can quickly change the match. But, with ROBs recovery that will rarely happen to you and usually only happen if you're low on fuel.

The hazards help ROB too with his laser going through halberds. Also, his side B can drag characters into all stage hazards which is good if people are hap-hazardously trying to throw you into them as they won't have their shield up leaving them susceptible to it.

 

[Crome]

Now discussing Delfino Plaza! Added comments for Halberd. Remember, you can talk about any stage you want. I just feature certain stages to have an organized way to promote discussion.

 

[Crome]

If you do not have anything to say about Delfino, you can still give comments and insight on other stages. Any and all contribution is welcome.

--

I think Delfino is a good stage for us.

General
The main platforms can all be jumped through, but not fallen through. This means we can shark really well, and Up B 3 is really useful here. When the stage is transitioning, you can gimmick people with low percent kills due to the blast boxes not shifting yet. Also getting caught on the ground during a transition isn't a problem for us, as we can easily recover. Not the case for many other characters.

Transformations
We can shark on the platforms to stall for the next transformation, and just generally camp with the weird platform layouts. I especially enjoy "Docks", "Pillars" "Noki Bay" and "Shine Gate" for camping. Since our gyro launches at a downward angle, we can easily harass them if they're below us at any of the previously mentioned stages.

Misc.
Probably not important, but one time on Platform 3 I upthrew at the very end of the downward edge of the platform, and we both were grab released with no damage or knockback taken. I'm assuming the slant made R.O.B move slightly, and edge cancelled the throw. Not too important, but something to look out for.

If you're mid upthrow and land it water, both parties just get released. I tested this by waiting for the pillars transformation and up throwing right before the main platform disappeared.

--

These next few stages probably won't have a lot of input, because it seems most places ban them. Here's a handy reference if you need a source - http://smashboards.com/threads/delfino-plaza-stage-research.383852/

 

[SackThing101]

I don't have much knowledge about R.O.B. other than he's good, but I think Delfino would be good-ish for him, if you're not playing against a DK.

The main reason is the transformation ceiling. A beep-boop or an up throw could probably kill someone around 50% when transforming.

The pillars would probably be good because R.O.B. has no problem getting over them, and a gyro could cover basically a pillar. Of course, your opponent can grab it. Also, the pillars would make the Sonic match up like 70-30 instead of something like 60-40, because Sonic can't really approach while R.O.B. can go all out. However, this transformation can also put R.O.B. in a very bad position, because, if I'm not mistakened, R.O.B. really hates water, meaning you can get dunked pretty easily.

The Shine gate you could camp out, but your opponent can also rush in. The platforms as edges for the transformation makes R.O.B. have a a disadvantage, since he really doesn't need it and it may benefit other characters you're facing.

I really have nothing to say about the Docks and Noki bay, other than you could potentially wall in the Docks.

 

[Crome]

I've removed PS2, Skyloft, and Wuhu Island because no one actually uses those stages. I also added Dreamland.

We are now discussing Castle Siege!

 

[Pureownege75]

I think it's worth noting that you can Up-Throw Suicide on Town and City, Smashville, and Dreamland, as well as the already mentioned Lylat. If you and your opponent are both on your last stocks, the opponent wins, but if you close out a stock first, it's worth going for if you get the opportunity.

 

[Crome]

Since Castle Siege is a bad stage, let's get to our first round of retrospection! If there are any stages you feel need to be re discussed, or you just want to put in your 2 cents, now is the time I encourage you to do so!

Now that I'm a little bit older, a little bit wiser, I figured I'd throw in some of my refreshed opinions to start us off.

Final Destination -
The main problem with FD is characters who can juggle and keep us off the ground. So with slow and powerful characters with less approach options this is a fine choice. So vs. Rosaluma, vs. ZSS, and vs. Falcon, this is a pretty bad stage for us. Characters that require out camping us (With RosaLuma being an exception) or platforms to combo us (Sheik and Mario) would be hurt by this stage.

Battlefield -
R.O.B is great at maneuvering around the platforms with his projectiles. R.O.B can still hit opponents if they hide under / or are camping on top of platforms, and his uptilt is great for poking from under. SH auto cancel up airs would work great here. We do have a problem getting down from the platforms vs. specific characters, but the platforms do give us some foothold. The platforms also give us earlier u throw and beep boop kills. I really like this stage vs. Yoshi particularly.

Dream Land -
I feel that Dream Land is just "better battlefield" for us. The stage has the same platform layout as BF, but the ceiling is lower, the platforms are larger (I think), and the main platform is bigger. Also, we can do the Uthrow suicide throw if Wispy is blowing in our direction. With this stage legal, I can't think of a single reason to go to BF. I always ban Battlefield, but I never ban Dream Land.

By the way, Wispy blows whatever direction the players are on, it's not random or anything.

Town and City -
Still the G.O.A.T. It's Battlefield but the platform lay out is much better for R.O.B, and it's bigger, and we can go under it easier. Seriously, ban battlefield, keep T&C and Dreamland. I don't have much else to say besides what I said / what was already said when the original discussion rolled around.

 

[Pixel_]

The R.O.B. boards have been so dead lol
Dunno if it's important or not, but are walled FD stages better than the other ones? R.O.B. can't get stage spiked but it'll benefit wall jump characters.

 

[Crome]

The R.O.B. boards have been so dead lol
Dunno if it's important or not, but are walled FD stages better than the other ones? R.O.B. can't get stage spiked but it'll benefit wall jump characters.

I'd say try to go to pacland or something. Is there a list of all Omega's and their properties? Because on Pacland you can wall tech, but not walljump. Best of both worlds situation for us.

 

[Pixel_]

I'd say try to go to pacland or something. Is there a list of all Omega's and their properties? Because on Pacland you can wall tech, but not walljump. Best of both worlds situation for us.

Found it:
http://smashboards.com/threads/final-destination-stage-research.395789/

 

[SlickWylde]

I find myself having a lot of trouble as ROB on Duck Hunt. It seems like the ducks constantly get in the way of my gyro, and in some cases (something else may have been happening that I didn't understand) it seemed like my dthrow to uair combo was getting interrupted if there were ducks in the vicinity.

 

[Crome]

I find myself having a lot of trouble as ROB on Duck Hunt. It seems like the ducks constantly get in the way of my gyro, and in some cases (something else may have been happening that I didn't understand) it seemed like my dthrow to uair combo was getting interrupted if there were ducks in the vicinity.

Hitting the duck makes the hitlag animation last longer, so it's easier for the opponent to escape. Missing a gyro shot because a duck is also annoying, yes.


However I think we can really work on this stage. We can use the ducks to extend the animation of uair to catch air dodges easier, or to trick people with bair. With the gyro, you can use it like Smashville's balloons. You'll get it right back, and it's more useful in hand. The dog is great for early beep boop kills, and the bush is the perfect height for uthrow.

The stage has some jank, but it can work.

 

[SlickWylde]

Hitting the duck makes the hitlag animation last longer, so it's easier for the opponent to escape. Missing a gyro shot because a duck is also annoying, yes.


However I think we can really work on this stage. We can use the ducks to extend the animation of uair to catch air dodges easier, or to trick people with bair. With the gyro, you can use it like Smashville's balloons. You'll get it right back, and it's more useful in hand. The dog is great for early beep boop kills, and the bush is the perfect height for uthrow.

The stage has some jank, but it can work.

Ah, that makes sense. So basically I gotta be more proactive and work on using the "jank" to my advantage. Good advice, I'll start working on ways to make it work in my favor!