R.O.B. Patch Notes Thread

[Syde7]

So, I thought it might be a good thing to consolidate the changes in ROB in the 1.0.6 patch here.
Post what you feel seems to be changed, and what is ACTUALLY changed (if you can mine some data)

List contains a section of confirmed changes (with confirmation source cited where possible), as well as a Requested Verification Section... things that others feel may have been changed but need to be verified.

--------------------------------------------

Confirmed Changes:

• U-Throw Nerfed. Reports from @ PUK indicate it killing Mario approximately 20% later, with similar information provided by @ TheSMASHtyke .
  • The nerf on the U-throw enables mid-percent combos, as reported by @ Crome
• ROB (as well as the rest of the cast) due to engine changes can no longer perform F-tilts or F-smashes when holding items, as reported by @ TheSMASHtyke

Possible Changes Needing Verification:

• Confirmed knockback data for possible Fsmash nerf, Nair buff, and Dair requested by @ Trekkerjoe

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

I think we ought to start off by forbidding anyone posting any information with the word "seems". A lot of misinformation gets spread this way. At the very least, lets separate what seems to have changed from what we know has changed.

I posted some tests I did on reddit. Here's what I found for what little I tested:

Kill move information. When I specify "the same" I mean it killed at the same percent.

Up Smash: The Same

Up Air: The Same

Up Throw: Nerfed. Before the update, I could kill mario from the starting platform of battlefield at 127%. It now kills at 145%

RoboHooHah / Beep Boop: It seems fine. Damage is identical on both Dthrow and Uair.

Damage information:

Gyro Cancelling and Wave Bouncing are still in

More information on damage percentages:

Jab: Untouched

Ftilt: Untouched

Dtilt: Untouched

Utilt: Untouched

Dash Attack: Untouched

Tiny Laser: Untouched

Big Laser: Untouched

Gyro: Untouched

Side B: I think untouched. My data on this prepatch was iffy

Nair: Untouched

Fair: Untouched

Uair: Untouched

Bair: Untouched

Dair: Untouched

USmash: Untouched

DSmash: Seems Untouched

FSmash: Untouched

FThrow: Untouched

BThrow: Untouched

Uthrow: Damage-wise Identical, but lower knockback as stated before. This actually pops people right up beside ROB. Someone needs to look into this. We could use this as an alternative to Dthrow for comboing.

Dthrow: Untouched.

These are all crude, first look test and may prove false under deeper dissection.

We got out alright at a glance. Up Throw nerf's a little disheartening, but I don't feel it's a deal breaker. The lower knockback could mean grab followups at low percents, it pops your opponent at a really exposed angle.

 

[Crome]

Up throw at mid percents actually combos into up air.


The following are tested on Battlefields 2 middle platforms


Upair doesn't KO until 120
Up smash kos at 100
Up throw doesn't KO until 140-150

I'm incredibly disappointed. Our kill moves were nerfed, but we combo a bit better. I told you guys we won't get a free pass from the nerf hammer.

 

[al-LAYN]

The only noticeable change that I will dare to confirm at this moment is his Up-Throw nerf. Kind of a bummer, especially given how ROB already struggled to kill.

EDIT: His Up-B glitch was patched out.

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

Kind of a bummer, especially given how ROB already struggled to kill.

In Brawl maybe. In Smash 4, he probably has some of the easiest time killing out of the whole cast.

I don't buy an Up Air nerf yet. I was able to kill Mario resting from his starting position on Battlefield with a full hop Up Air at 120% before the patch. Got the exact same results with the patch.

 

[Crome]

Oh ****, is the 120 normal? Because that's what I got this update. Also, UpB is still good.

These next 2 are just assumptions, but I think our upsmash got buffed, and we have less landing lag on aerials. Especially bair

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

Yeah, fairly convinced all our other ways to kill outside of Up Throw are exactly the same as 1.04.

I've been up for 20 hours at this point so I can't judge increases / decreases in landing lag. I can confirm though that the auto cancel windows for Bair, Uair, and Dair are still there so they're likely untouched.

 

[Syde7]

I think we ought to start off by forbidding anyone posting any information with the word "seems". A lot of misinformation gets spread this way. At the very least, lets separate what seems to have changed from what we know has changed.

The usage of the word seems is more or less indicative of "Hey, this feels/looks somewhat differently. It might be a placebo effect. Can someone test this for me." Its a 'place to start' as opposed to just picking random facets about the char to test.

That being said, I appreciate your information.

 

[PUK]

U throw kills Mario 20% later. Not a big deal because it was really op before with rage effect.

 

[Mister Eric]

Nerf ROB u throw but leave Ness's the same.
wut

 

[InsaneSanity]

EDIT: His Up-B glitch was patched out.

Well that's it, I'm no longer a ROB main.

 

[Ladorana]

Anyone know if robicide on town and city / smashville still works?

 

[1FC0]

Well that's it, I'm no longer a ROB main.

Because you were not one to start with? Infinite Burner already got removed in the previous patch, mate! How could you not already know about R.O.B.'s biggest nerf ever?

 

[Mister Eric]

Getting to watch my opponent bleed a little more isn't a nerf at all.
It's my pleasure.

 

[1FC0]

Oh I get it is because of the Upthrow nerf.

 

[Trekkerjoe]

As I know it, Uair has been nerfed slightly, but I have not been able to gather conclusive data prior the patch.
Uthrow has been nerfed.
Fsmash appears to be nerfed, but the exact conditions may not have been the same.
Bair buffed
Dsmash buffed
Nair slightly buffed
SideB same
Dair same
All projectiles, including super diffusion beam are the same
I would like for verification on the following: Uair nerf, Fsmash nerf, Nair buff, and Dair.
EDIT: Forgot to note that this is all knockback data, not raw percentages.
EDIT2:Adding a link to Smashwiki: http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_updates_(SSB4-3DS)/1.0.6_changelog
Please note that the information is incomplete, but I feel It will give us a better perspective on where we stand after the update.

 

[Crome]

Uair definitely isn't nerfed, at least not kill power.

 

[Trekkerjoe]

Ok, My data was flawed, obviously. Glad The Uair is untouched.

Next time a patch comes, perhaps I will use Boswer instead of Jigglypuff for the test subject. It was sooooo annoying to test knockback, expecially the side-b.

 

[PowerHungryFool]

Getting to watch my opponent bleed a little more isn't a nerf at all.
It's my pleasure.

ROB mains love to play with their food.

 

[Jon_14]

So other than the uthrow nerf, has anything actually "ruined" ROB or is he still good to use?

(And another note has Smashboards been screwing up for anyone else?)

 

[1FC0]

Well I think it is stupid cuz now it takes ages to kill them noobs and real robots love efficiency and getting the job done quick.

 

[Trekkerjoe]

So other than the uthrow nerf, has anything actually "ruined" ROB or is he still good to use?

(And another note has Smashboards been screwing up for anyone else?)

Not to my knowledge. I'd say he's still viable.
And yes, Smashboards is screwing up. The new patch and Mewtwo seem to be too much to handle.

 

[Not_Ikely]

This is why game developers should just make a finished product before releasing. If anyone here has played recent Battlefield games, the same thing happened there as well with balance patches. The the most likely result is just one character becoming too strong accidentally and the patches having unintended consequences. In BF3 for example, patch changes made one load out completely superior to the rest. As far as bug patches, well, don't release the game if it doesn't work!

ROB's nerf isn't too bad, but the first patch made me switch completely from Greninja.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Mewtwo has a better up-throw than ROB now.

I tested ROB's new u-throw, and it killed Mario (with no DI) at 161%. Meanwhile, Mewtwo's killed at 142%.

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

A very minor nerf, but I can confirm due to some engine changes that R.O.B. and the rest of the cast can on longer Forward Tilt / Forward Smash with items. I'll gut it from my guide in a bit.

 

[Brickbox]

OP please PLEASE, make sure the OP is updated with only 100% percent confirmed info, until then I advise you take off things that are not.

The "it feels like" or "it seems" really causes mass misinformation.
plus that way everyone has a list of exactly what is confirmed to be changed.

 

[Syde7]

Edit: Nevermind. Wrong thread.

 

[Crome]

• Confirmed frame data on range/speed of F-air

If it counts, I definitely think Fair was left unchanged. I've been able to use it fine, without any kind of transitioning period or anything.

 

[Jearbear357]

Hmm never thought about up throw being more combo viable, but dang... its such a harsh nerf imo. For me, thats my most realiable and safest kill option. Also Im hearning greninja got buffed so I may go back to using him, since I couldnt stand that extra up air hitbox

 

[Mister Eric]

Edit: Nevermind. Wrong thread.

but i miss u
come back

 

[The Real Inferno]

ROB got ****ed over. Uthrow was our best kill option in tons of matchups with characters who just didn't give a **** about bair, dair or our smashes (i.e. anyone with high mobility). Our best game plan against characters like Fox, Sheik, Yoshi (especially ****ing Yoshi) and others was to patiently rack up percent and play defensive to fish a shield grab uthrow. Now, you're looking at as much as 30%+ more damage before that uthrow is going to even come close to killing. I couldn't even kill Mario with uthrow at 115 on Battlefield's platforms and I had 100% rage. Consider our attacks do, on average, 7% damage, and you're talking a lot of work put on ROB to secure kills now. We also can't mix up our projectile game with attacks while holding gyro anymore, which makes us even weaker against reflector characters like Fox who had to guess what we were gonna do while holding it.

I just think it's funny that ROB's uthrow was apparently too strong, but Ness, a high damage, high combo, high kb character can have a bthrow that kills even earlier.

Basically, this nerf is definitely enough to knock ROB down a few pegs in terms of any tier list or matchup charts. It severely hurts us in a few particular matchups. We gained nothing to improve any matchups for us either and the nerfs to most other characters doesnt improve our chances against them outside of Diddy Kong.

As for the "oh but it combos into stuff now!" thing: outside of 0% it doesn't combo into anything that the opponent cant DI/jump/air dodge out of. We don't have a throw fast enough to make them mess up their DI like some characters do either. We flat out didnt need another combo throw anyway. Uthrow to Usmash is very tight timing, only works at 0 and doesnt seem to be true on all characters. If you **** it up, you are pretty vulnerable as well. Honestly, I think this perspective is just trying to make us feel better about an unnecessary nerf when really it's just kind of bull**** that we didn't deserve.

You're going to find people are much more aggressive against ROBs at higher percents now without the threat of uthrow to scare them.

 

[Mister Eric]

I don't know.
I'm not too worried about the nerf to be honest.
As @ The Real Inferno said, ppl will want to play more aggressive, but quite frankly, me likes that. It allows me to get more damage on them if they do so. Bc at a higher lvl of play, your projectiles aint much unless you have a gyro in your hand, or you're being very clutch with very small window opportunities to land a gyro/laser. So if someone is trying to get in on me, and with me being a zoning/gtfo character, I think it's going to be ok.
Yeah we have to do like 20+% more dmg to have an easy kill, but:
1.) We do a good deal of damage already. Shouldn't be too hard in most MUs.
2.) This will condition us to get better at out other kill options such as upsmashing out of shield, roll reading, manipulating someone to dodge, gimping, etc.

Maybe we're better off without this crutch.
Maybe I'm insanely optimistic.
Either way, you can nerf ROB, but you'll never nerf the player.
Let's just wait and see how this goes.

I have high hopes.

 

[Syde7]

I wish I could like @ The Real Inferno 's post several times over.

As he mentioned... we gained nothing to improve in certain MU's, most notably the higher (A and above; Diddy Kong excluded) tiers, which... imo, we have less than favorable MU's against across the board (with 50/50's or 55:45 being the best). And, that's against the upper tiers only. Im sure some 50/50 MU's ROB had with "lower tier" chars have shifted / MU's in general with lower tiered chars (Im theorizing that Kirby/Jiggs/DeDeDe/Bowser will improve in their MU against ROB as a result.)

Also as he mentioned... people will play more aggressively now at the latter stages of a stock. The U-throw KO threat was there to "keep them honest" about their spacing/ zoning/ their plan for going on. Ya, it killed a pretty early, but when you compared it to the other strongest throws in the game, it was par for the course. Its not that I have a problem with the U-throw Nerf, its just (as Interno mentioned)... Ness retains his b-throw knockback. Ness. A character who has a much easier time racking up damage via combos / much more reliable BnB game.

The trade-off was not worth it. You lose a gauranteed, safe, kill option at reasonable percents for what? A Combo that works at 0%? A possible "mix-up option for a D-/U-Throw -> Read the DI and Bait out an airdodge U-air" KO? Pff. I

I get what @ Mister Eric is saying about not having a crutch and having to rely on other methods to land the kill that improve us as a player. But, we had to rely on those things to GET us to the point where the U-throw would reward us for those consistent reads/set-ups/wins at neutral. If I wanted to make super duper hard reads and create elaborate kill set-ups to HOPEFULLY get a kill at 150... I'd play Sheik more often. =P

 

[Mister Eric]

I get what @ Mister Eric is saying about not having a crutch and having to rely on other methods to land the kill that improve us as a player. But, we had to rely on those things to GET us to the point where the U-throw would reward us for those consistent reads/set-ups/wins at neutral. If I wanted to make super duper hard reads and create elaborate kill set-ups to HOPEFULLY get a kill at 150... I'd play Sheik more often. =P

Are they super hard reads tho? It's just being reactive. I've played about 10 rank games since the patch and still haven't felt the struggle yet (shoutouts to getting top 10 on smashladder today! sorry, im hype).
Up throw was a crutch that we can live without. At higher lvls, ppl respected the grab so much that a lot of the top 8 players I run into in bracket don't fall into it anyways. A lot of the times my throw was granted to me because I got a jab off, stopped it, and then grabbed. I've accepted that I'll never grab a good diddy or sheik anyways esp if they space well. So I've opted for other options. I guess more ppl relied on up throw than I realized. Larry Lurr wouldn't let me grab him when I beat him at APEX, I think all my kills came from up smash accept 1. And that's out of two sets. If we're really struggling, we still have it. I mean, it's still a nerf. Obv. But I don't think it dropped us down any.

 

[Syde7]

Are they super hard reads tho? It's just being reactive. I've played about 10 rank games since the patch and still haven't felt the struggle yet (shoutouts to getting top 10 on smashladder today! sorry, im hype).
Up throw was a crutch that we can live without. At higher lvls, ppl respected the grab so much that a lot of the top 8 players I run into in bracket don't fall into it anyways. A lot of the times my throw was granted to me because I got a jab off, stopped it, and then grabbed. I've accepted that I'll never grab a good diddy or sheik anyways esp if they space well. So I've opted for other options. I guess more ppl relied on up throw than I realized. Larry Lurr wouldn't let me grab him when I beat him at APEX, I think all my kills came from up smash accept 1. And that's out of two sets. If we're really struggling, we still have it. I mean, it's still a nerf. Obv. But I don't think it dropped us down any.

I feel where you're coming from, I really do. And I agree 100% about people respecting the grab and that leading into not landing it. That's one thing I really liked about it. It was a threat. Something that needed to be respected. Something that kept opponent's honest, for lack of a better term. The respect for that move is what opened up a lot of other different kill options / set-ups.

My gripe isn't along the scrubby lines of "Waaah, I don't have an easy kill anymore!" but rather more about giving up the threat of a strong KO option, that forced opponents to play around it, that opened up a lot of effective/creative ways to getting a kill with other options with very little in return. These same set-ups exist, but we have one less "option" to mask them.

 

[Lunix7]

I don't know.
I'm not too worried about the nerf to be honest.
As @ The Real Inferno said, ppl will want to play more aggressive, but quite frankly, me likes that. It allows me to get more damage on them if they do so. Bc at a higher lvl of play, your projectiles aint much unless you have a gyro in your hand, or you're being very clutch with very small window opportunities to land a gyro/laser. So if someone is trying to get in on me, and with me being a zoning/gtfo character, I think it's going to be ok.
Yeah we have to do like 20+% more dmg to have an easy kill, but:
1.) We do a good deal of damage already. Shouldn't be too hard in most MUs.
2.) This will condition us to get better at out other kill options such as upsmashing out of shield, roll reading, manipulating someone to dodge, gimping, etc.

Maybe we're better off without this crutch.
Maybe I'm insanely optimistic.
Either way, you can nerf ROB, but you'll never nerf the player.
Let's just wait and see how this goes.

I have high hopes.

Well said. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[1FC0]

I just lost on FG 1v1 due to time and a Sudden Death Bob-Omb because of the nerf =(
It was very lame, I threw the noob up for the kill but 1.0.6 screwed me over and then the time ran out and I got Bob-Ombed in Sudden Death.

THANKS SAKURAI

 

[Jearbear357]

I just dont get why it needed to be nerf. It kills at pretty high percent, while I beleive mewtwos up throw kills even earlier. (Also mewtwo's back throw kills even earlier near the sides.)
MU wise, most of the higher tiers were nerfed, but most lower tiers were buffed making their MU against ROB more favorable. I think considering tiers, ROB will definitely be lower than before compared to 1.0.5. Probally like 1 or 2 spots though.

 

[Talazala]

I just lost on FG 1v1 due to time and a Sudden Death Bob-Omb because of the nerf =(
It was very lame, I threw the noob up for the kill but 1.0.6 screwed me over and then the time ran out and I got Bob-Ombed in Sudden Death.

THANKS SAKURAI

Weeeeeeeeeell, I don't want to generalize but I am guessing you might be part of the reason, and by part I mean most of the reason why you timed out? d:

 

[Jams.]

Obviously they nerfed ROB uthrow because otherwise it would steal the spotlight from Mewtwo's killing uthrow. Nintendo couldn't have a vanilla character supersede their new, shiny DLC character. /conspiracy