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UTaunt should feature me instead of Mappy with all this summoning.Better summon the boys
@BSP
@ D dragontamer
@Paper Maribro
@Firedemon0
@WeirdChillFever
@fromundaman
Before I begin, let me mention that dropping a hydrant on your gyro weakens it enough for us to pick it up
And, I learned something today.Better summon the boys
@BSP
@ D dragontamer
@Paper Maribro
@Firedemon0
@WeirdChillFever
@fromundaman
Before I begin, let me mention that dropping a hydrant on your gyro weakens it enough for us to pick it up
I'll admit, I did feel like that when I posted that comment lol.And, I learned something today.
Also, I couldn't help but imagining the first like... the first 45 seconds of the video to Michael Jackson's "Beat it" at the "summon the boys" comment... but with big, yellow pac-men instead of gang members. And, I laughed.
This is matchup that I feel is firmly in our favor (or 40:60 if you want to use ratios)R.O.B. is a different story, but he is less of a problem. R.O.B.'s aerial combos are based on u-air and f-air, so, like Nimbus said, do crossups on the ground to get behind him and use RAR f-airs on landings (don't frequent them, though, the opponent can catch on), cherries on gyros and off-stage to gimp, and try to refrain from launching hydrant too much. R.O.B.'s reflector can be angled to cover just about every launching Hydrant option Pac has. Instead, try dropping one on the ground and using PP into the floor to go into your downed state. Let the water push you under R.O.B.'s lasers and gyros so you can approach with rolls, get ups, and get up attacks. This is a great mixup approach that works on lots of characters that don't have too much low ground coverage, and R.O.B. is so tall that the only definite way you can be punished for this is if he reacts with d-smash and clanks, but even then, an uncharged d-smash will not stun Pac long enough for R.O.B. to get any serious punishment off. A d-tilt could catch you if your opponent reacts fast enough, but keep in mind that Pac is all about mixups. Use everything in different ways each match and you'll do just fine.
I would let him hit the hydrant with the laser.I think Pac-Man can play with R.O.B's blindspots, and if you read the laser we can sneak a Key in.
But that laser screws with our Hydrant Camp and approach, so I'm not sure which one to do.
I've had the most success when playing Rushdown and Apple in R.O.B's blindspotty face so that might work here.
No ratings, just two cents.
R.O.B is mostly "Waltz over and Watch out".I would let him hit the hydrant with the laser.
Weakens it enough for us to send it flying with one ftilt. If he tries to rotor arm it, use that time to approach because the rotor arm will send the hydrant over your head. And I'm pretty sure a fully charged laser only does 10%~ so it doesn't one shot the hydrant
Wait, made a mistake. His dtilt and utilt are faster than ours. Ours have a lot more range however
I'll admit, I did feel like that when I posted that comment lol.
My avatar is perfect for it.
To give a summary of what most of us feel the ROB matchup is, here is sample from our thread:
This is matchup that I feel is firmly in our favor (or 40:60 if you want to use ratios)
Unfortunately you are one of the unlock characters that fall victim to this
http://youtu.be/yi2zCi54ASg
This effectively eliminates your option of retreating to the ledge because we can severely punish your get up with any fruit if you jump, or smash attack if you wait.
Pac-Man does lose in the long range zoning game, but he excels in the CQC and mid range. Our aerials and tilts all come out faster than yours, and we combo you hard in the air.
We disrespect your zoning game with our hydrant. We can pick up your gyro immediately after dropping the hydrant on it, and then force you to approach. With your gyro in our hands, we can charge up to whatever fruits we want to use. We even have an extremely safe approach/poke in this matchup.
http://youtu.be/0fNJlLfmhbM
I will write more later when I have the time ^^;
I agree about getting in the blindspot. Pac has a good character model, hurtbox, and set of tools to get into these blindspots, better than most. I also think you're right in that being a bit more rushdown and using fruit set-ups in our blindspots (as I mentioned in my initial analysis) ala Mario & fireballs is one of your better options to get in and take advantage.I think Pac-Man can play with R.O.B's blindspots, and if you read the laser we can sneak a Key in.
But that laser screws with our Hydrant Camp and approach, so I'm not sure which one to do.
I've had the most success when playing Rushdown and Apple in R.O.B's blindspotty face so that might work here.
No ratings, just two cents.
I really appreciate & value you Pac-Mains input. TBH, I didn't know some of these things that you guys mentioned. Definite eye-openers. I still maintain that this isn't any worse than 50:50, (its not that I think ROB is better than he is, I actually think he is a very mediocre/close to bad character) but I'd be happy to change that ratio if I were to play a pac and felt overwhelmed. I'd love to play some of you Pacs online or something sometime, and get much more familiar with the MU & see some of these trixies in practice.I feel like a gang member now >.>
I played R.O.B extensively in Brawl, love him in PM. Dabbled briefly before picking up Pac-man. This fight is definitely in Pac-man's favor.
Once Pac-man gets in, Rob has a very hard time getting him out. If Rob's Nair was just a bit faster or was a backflip, he would have a better shot. Pac-man is able to safely poke at Rob's shields with retreating SH fairs. No OOS option really can punish it except laser. When well spaced, Rob cannot dash in as he will run right into a ftilt or worse a fmash. With his large hitbox, Rob is able to be grabbed while Pac-man is standing on top of his hydrant, leading to an up-throw and air juggles, which are never good for Rob. Your best bet is to try to get to ledge in those cases. Trying to punish approaches with nairs.
Long range, the fight is definitely in Rob's favor as long as he does not waste Gyro on shield, or a hydrant. This will allow Pac-man to grab the gyro and Rob has a very slow laser as his only tool to keep Pac-man out. To keep Pac-man out, you need to tilt or jab hydrant, safely. If he is nearby, wait for the Bair, then laser it. He should be unable to escape in time.
Off stage, Default Rob is at a horrible disadvantage recovering, but that is resolved with customs luckily. Kinda wish they went the PM route with his Up-B. Pacman is also able to be gimped by smart gyro use. You can hit the Side-B and dramatically lower Pac-man's recovery. Gimp the Side-B follow up with laser, and if they wasted double jump, you should close out the stock with a well timed bair or dair.
You have to be cautious and try to steal Pac-man's Fruit, use that and Gyro to basically try to camp out Pac-man. It is difficult, but Rob's tools are just a bit too slow to really keep him out. You have to rely a bit too heavily on prediction, which is dangerous against Pac-man. Basically try to keep the fight midrange and try to wall him out with specials and tilts. Don't be afraid to side-B a hydrant or two back at Pac-man.
40:60 in Pac-mans Favor.
I'm curious what you mean by this. Do you mean that using hydrant on a grounded gyro lets you pick it up easily? What's the advantage of using this option versus clanking with a jab then picking it up, using dash attack, jumping and using z, or just walking up to it and picking it up off the ground?Better summon the boys
@BSP
@ D dragontamer
@Paper Maribro
@Firedemon0
@WeirdChillFever
@fromundaman
Before I begin, let me mention that dropping a hydrant on your gyro weakens it enough for us to pick it up
This requires some pretty good prediction on Rob's part however. Whiffing the Up-smash is bad for Rob as it does not vacuum.The PacMan player needs to take advantage of SH Retreating Fairs. The Rob player can threaten PacMan's rushdown hard with OOS USmashes however, he just can't spam that attack.
If we drop a hydrant on the gyro, then it slides towards the side that we drop it on. This also weakens the hydrant which lets us launch it with less moves and puts a barrier between you and us while we pick the gyro up.I'm curious what you mean by this. Do you mean that using hydrant on a grounded gyro lets you pick it up easily? What's the advantage of using this option versus clanking with a jab then picking it up, using dash attack, jumping and using z, or just walking up to it and picking it up off the ground?
This does allow for a laser break however, so I would not recommend it often!If we drop a hydrant on the gyro, then it slides towards the side that we drop it on. This also weakens the hydrant which lets us launch it with less moves and puts a barrier between you and us while we pick the gyro up.
I wouldn't play seriously online, lol. The real competition spurs in local tournaments where you have ease of access of a competitive community that could possibly be at/surpass/grow to your level of play. Online's lag may seem minimal, but to tournament players such as myself, it makes a huge difference. Reaction times can't be measured well with even a 7-frame input delay.I really appreciate & value you Pac-Mains input. TBH, I didn't know some of these things that you guys mentioned. Definite eye-openers. I still maintain that this isn't any worse than 50:50, (its not that I think ROB is better than he is, I actually think he is a very mediocre/close to bad character) but I'd be happy to change that ratio if I were to play a pac and felt overwhelmed. I'd love to play some of you Pacs online or something sometime, and get much more familiar with the MU & see some of these trixies in practice.
Thanks for contributing. Definitely will help us ROBs improve.
I apologize in advance if I'm taking that the wrong way, and if I am disregard the (thusly unwarranted) snarkiness of this comment, but the bolded statement reeks of misplaced elitism. I mean, I'm a tournament player as well, typically 3 or so a month w/ placings solidly in Top 8 (7th has been my lowest placing, as I recall) and our state isn't "free" (One of our top players coming in 2nd at Final Round 18, beating Player 1, Logic, & Fatality, another one of our mid-PR-ranked coming in 13th at that same tournament with another top player having taken Boss and 6WX [iirc, don't quote me as 100% accurate on that] to game 5).I wouldn't play seriously online, lol. The real competition spurs in local tournaments where you have ease of access of a competitive community that could possibly be at/surpass/grow to your level of play. Online's lag may seem minimal, but to tournament players such as myself, it makes a huge difference. Reaction times can't be measured well with even a 7-frame input delay.
I didn't mean it like that, it's good for match up knowledge, but it's not good for finding out what to do during the match up. if you need fast reaction speed in order to break a combo or DI away from/into an opponent, online isn't the most consistent outlet. It's good in theory but not in execution.I apologize in advance if I'm taking that the wrong way, and if I am disregard the (thusly unwarranted) snarkiness of this comment, but the bolded statement reeks of misplaced elitism. I mean, I'm a tournament player as well, typically 3 or so a month w/ placings solidly in Top 8 (7th has been my lowest placing, as I recall) and our state isn't "free" (One of our top players coming in 2nd at Final Round 18, beating Player 1, Logic, & Fatality, another one of our mid-PR-ranked coming in 13th at that same tournament with another top player having taken Boss and 6WX [iirc, don't quote me as 100% accurate on that] to game 5).
So, for tournament players such as myself, online is a great way to experience and learn new matchups that you don't get to see in the local (and sometimes regional) scenes, new and different ways characters can be played. I concede that delay/lag/whatever kinda fuggz some stuff up, but if you play to observe, experience, and learn... it really isn't an issue. When it comes to that, its not a measure of skill, or reaction time, or anything along those lines, but rather: "Oh, this character is capable of doing X. Now that I've seen it a few times, I will know to be on the lookout for when I play someone who uses this character in tournament". Online is the easiest, most accessible way to learn lots of new things whether your a tournament player or not.
Then I apologize for my misunderstanding. And yes, I agree to the points you listed, I was speaking directly toward MU knowledge. Again, my apologies.I didn't mean it like that, it's good for match up knowledge, but it's not good for finding out what to do during the match up. if you need fast reaction speed in order to break a combo or DI away from/into an opponent, online isn't the most consistent outlet. It's good in theory but not in execution.
No harm done! Understanding is always important in a community.Then I apologize for my misunderstanding. And yes, I agree to the points you listed, I was speaking directly toward MU knowledge. Again, my apologies.