GwJ
Smash Hero
Sorry this is up late
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That's not true at all. Outside of Utilt -> Uair and the VERY occasional Uair -> DJ Uair -> Uair string, Yoshi really lacks any kind of true combo.Syde7 said:Yoshi has the luxury of having a low percent combo/string game that is almost guaranteed that puts us very close to kill percentages for his tool set. Like, he may need to tack on an additional 30-40% after his common strings stop working before we're in KO range for a bunch of his moves. ROB doesn't have that option. Our stuff works till like... 50-60% tops iirc... and we still need to tack on an additional 60-70% before we are in reliable kill range for the bulk of our options (esp. since U-throw has been nerfed).
- The only safe on shield aerial Yoshi has is a very well spaced fair which has like 20 frames of ending lag.The Real Inferno said:Yoshi's ONLY bad quality against us is his inability to kill ROB with grabs. This makes shielding a little bit better than normal...however, he can safely fade back all of his aerials when spaced correctly before a ROB can usmash out of shield anytime you fail to powershield, so don't get too excited. He also eats shields with dair, often poking, and can b reverse his neutral b to come into a shield with an aerial grab at a moment's notice. Neutral B can also kill at higher percents when mashing out will eventually become an impossibility if you don't land on the stage, making offstage neutral b an embarrassing way to go.
Which combo. I know MK combo, shiek combo, but yoshi?Yoshi can sheild break rob thougj right? Absolutly, but DownB as poor range so you can avoid it.
And yoshi dosnt need nair to get out of robs combos. He has his 2nd jump. You will eat damage anyway, but yes. Rob combo are not combo mostly.
Also yoshi has a ton of true combos and insane strings.
Seems legit (look like a string though) but if it doesn't kill it's just a damage racker so no not that scarry, and like i said, you need to land a little range Nair/Utilt against a character which don't want to let you approach and won't try things like dash grab. And you can DI/jump/b reverse to escape most strings, but i presume yoshi can catch you.Yoshi has insane true combos. There harder to pull off but heres one. Nair(right near ground)>up tilt(I think twice)>up air>up air>up air. Guaranteed at the right percent.
No its inescapable. I know a ton about yoshi. With 23,000 kos and a ton of battles I think I would know. If you skip the nair part and you get someone with it on the top platform of BF it kos at 40 or lower lol. Almost impossible to pull off though. But wouldnt a rob have a hard time recovoring against a good yoshi? Robs recovory is pretty slow. Yoshis back air is mostly a punish move. I often find myself using it as a punish not an approach. Its pretty good for edguardding though for sure.inescapableost: 19043528 said:Seems legit (look like a string though) but if it doesn't kill it's just a damage racker so no not that scarry, and like i said, you need to land a little range Nair/Utilt against a character which don't want to let you approach and won't try things like dash grab. And you can DI/jump/b reverse to escape most strings, but i presume yoshi can catch you.
And yoshi Bair is unsafe, like MKs lol.
Yes, I forgot to mention it, Yoshi has a hard time killing people because his kill moves requires a read to land.PUK said:Big yoshi issue is difficulty to kill: Usmash and Uair are his primary kill moves i remember, and if you camp sticked to the ground he won't be able to easily land them, and Fsmash is huge but really telegraphed. He can stage spike with Dair and meteor with Fair so you have to be impredictible in your recovery : go up and FF, go under the stage or do what you want but never three times the same thing.
You dont just randomly use it... you have to use it almost right before you land. You do this the lag is so little I dont think rob can punish. But if you do get a hitbwith this even at higher percentages you can true combo into moves. You can nair into fair around 50% if your opponent DIs left right or down. But even before 80% you combo into dash no matter what DI. Yoshis complex.Lukinhasss said:Nair to Utilt is not a true combo in most situations, though it's pretty kick and most people does fall for it simply because they don't expect the Utilt.
Also Nairing out of nowhere as an approach is not recommended considering R.O.B can easily just shield grab it lol
Rob can go all the way from the lower blast line, so you can wait for years until yoshi goes back to the stage. But yes we always need to be careful, although don't forget we can act during our upBNo its inescapable. I know a ton about yoshi. With 23,000 kos and a ton of battles I think I would know. If you skip the nair part and you get someone with it on the top platform of BF it kos at 40 or lower lol. Almost impossible to pull off though. But wouldnt a rob have a hard time recovoring against a good yoshi? Robs recovory is pretty slow. Yoshis back air is mostly a punish move. I often find myself using it as a punish not an approach. Its pretty good for edguardding though for sure.
Dair still spikes and bair. All yoshi good yoshi users know how to do dair correctly. But isnt rob vulnerable near the sides of him as he recovors? Edgegaurding rob isnt really deadly though.Rob can go all the way from the lower blast line, so you can wait for years until yoshi goes back to the stage. But yes we always need to be careful, although don't forget we can act during our upB
I Just tested and I can confirm that both Nair -> Utilt ( at very low %s) and Nair -> Fair (at 55%~65%) on R.O.B are true combos, however, Yoshi has to be exaclty inside R.O.B when Nairing or else it won't be a true combo, which would be something not easy to do.You dont just randomly use it... you have to use it almost right before you land. You do this the lag is so little I dont think rob can punish. But if you do get a hitbwith this even at higher percentages you can true combo into moves. You can nair into fair around 50% if your opponent DIs left right or down. But even before 80% you combo into dash no matter what DI. Yoshis complex.
Sorry double post.You dont just randomly use it... you have to use it almost right before you land. You do this the lag is so little I dont think rob can punish. But if you do get a hitbwith this even at higher percentages you can true combo into moves. You can nair into fair around 50% if your opponent DIs left right or down. But even before 80% you combo into dash no matter what DI. Yoshis complex.
Rob being vulnérable means he has to be unpredictible. And from the moment yoshi loses his SA laser and gyro have enough KB to kill his momentum.Dair still spikes and bair. All yoshi good yoshi users know how to do dair correctly. But isnt rob vulnerable near the sides of him as he recovors? Edgegaurding rob isnt really deadly though.
Im gonna test if yoshi can nair lock rob when hes in sheild. Also of course the combo is hard to pull off. Ive done it many times.=kinhasss, post: 19043865, member: 209122"]I Just tested and I can confirm that both Nair -> Utilt ( at very low %s) and Nair -> Fair (at 55%~65%) on R.O.B are true combos, however, Yoshi has to be exaclty inside R.O.B when Nairing or else it won't be a true combo, which would be something not easy to do.
I'll defer to one of the Yoshi mains, such as yourself about what combos/strings exist for that character, and I concur that his 'true combo' game might be relatively weak.I agree with the majority of the points stated here, however, there are some things i don't agree with:
That's not true at all. Outside of Utilt -> Uair and the VERY occasional Uair -> DJ Uair -> Uair string, Yoshi really lacks any kind of true combo.
Trust me it changes alot. Yoshi likes to recovor from above. Yoshi can have trouble getting through the platforms. Yoshi isnt safe at all on BF. Rob can camp pretty good under the platforms. It just makes the MU a bit diffrent for yoshi. Not impossible but it just adds a advantage for rob.Well som ne's Usmash being really good through platforms hardly changes a MU
I'd say it's pretty important. R.O.B's usmash kills at around 100%-120% from the base of battlefield.Well someone's Usmash being really good through platforms hardly changes a MU
Relative to your skill, how well do you think this yoshi plays?But im also the only yoshi player in the yoshi community that thinks sheik isnt a bad MU for yoshi. Dont know if im the best there but ive been fighting some yoshis and seem to be alot better. There still good though but I feel like people need to understand Yoshi more.
Any advice on how to punish egg spam? What are some things he's doing wrong R.O.B could capitalize on?Hes pretty good. I dont underestimate people but im positive I play yoshi alot better then him. Not doughting his skills but I have alot more experience most likly. With 5,000 hours of playtime xD
Im a no lifer with smash4.
Ive played more then ZeRo
He seems pretty good but thats alot of eggs. But I try not to underestimate. And I woould rather show my skills and not type about it anyways.
You shouldnt have a problem with egg spam. Just avoid it and use lazers and gyros. When the yoshi gets more agressive you probanly know what to do. Running into sheild is a great option. And when you get close to the yoshi dont think about attacking or grabing. After he throws the egg and you get close to him he will most likly throw a egg, nair or aerials. He wont think about grabing or using most likly. When you se your chance use a safe move. Dont try this when yoshi is mid stage. Pressure him back with gryos if he wants to spam eggs. Its also very predictable and easy to react. Grabing is pretty good but if they land near sheild its really good to down smash. Once they are off cliff try some set ups. Throwing gryos up in air near cliff is realy good as you attenpt to edguard the yoshi. When he trys to punish you the gryo will be in the way or even hit him.Any advice on how to punish eggg spam? What are some things he's doing wrong R.O.B could capitalize on?
Very good points. Anytime I rely on camping hardcore vs. Yoshi, I wind up getting in a world of trouble. I personally think a reserved/cautious offense that consists of low percents Bread & Butter combo/strings, and an aggressive yet cautios poking game with camping mixed in as "support" or as an "in" to move into a solid poking range is the way to go in this MU,Be careful about Gyro use. If you put the Gyro on the floor Yoshi can easily pick it up with a Nair. While Yoshi has a Gyro in hand he still has access to a grab, a kill move and his own projectile. Camping Yoshi can be very difficult. He does well against characters who don't approach.
Stay out of the air as much as you can. You don't want to challenge Yoshi in the air since most of his ariels will trump ROB's. Other than that I would say for general advice is not camping as much against Yoshi and listen to what people posted above. If you don't approach Yoshi he can hit you with eggs and then run up and get a bunch of attacks off you. Like mentioned above I would stay cautious and try to find a way in using minimal camping. Also unless the Yoshi is terrible at using his jumps don't try and spike him, but rather set up the gyro around the ledge and predict where he's going to land (be warned though if he uses nair he can grab it). I wish I could be more help, but this is a puzzling MU for me as well.Here is a video of me fighting Mr.Doom from 2 months ago. I am so lost on this MU, any tips would help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alKQwE0XnLs