Questions to the SSB64 Pros (NOT about moves/techniques/BS)

[Daedatheus]

Hi.

I just joimed Smashboards recently. I had lurked around a little in the past, referenced by a friend, and not too interested in Smash myself. Recently I've fallen in love with SSB64. I've had the game for ages, but recently picked it up again and have been improving quickly. (I actually also recently got a hold of a second SSB cart and another n64, both for free, but it's a long story).

So I'm not going to bore you with more crap asking "OMG HOW DUZ U SHORTHOPD?" because I know where to find all that info. I know how to do the techniques, and if I can't do them all consistently, it's just because I haven't practiced them enough yet. So that's settled.

I'm more concerned about the HOW of getting to a high level of SSB64 proficiency. For the best of you SSBers on this board (and I know who you are, so others don't try to fake me out! ), how did you get to such a level? What, in terms of game/metagame is the most important aspect of one's skill to win a match? Or is it an equal combination of every factor controllable by the player? What kind of practice/drills/playing would you recommend to improve real, applicable ***-kicking?

I am planning on hosting an SSB tourney with friends and others in the near future. While I can fairly consistently beat everyone I know or have met who plays the game, it's not always guaranteed, but regardless - compared to the best smashers here, I'm still terrible. I want to put these skills into use for a live (amateur) tourney and dominate as well I can, but I'm also looking forward to being able to play against the better smashers here ONLINE, eventually. (And actually stand a little bit of a chance, at least after enough time playing!)

So yeah -- how did you master SSB64 smashers go from ZERO to HERO over the years? I'd be interested in knowing if there are some really prime things to do in order to improve one's skill rather than just brute-force practicing and combo-attempting. I know that practice is necessary - but practice also has to be done RIGHT. Practice doesn't always make perfect, but practice does make PERMANENT. And I don't want to reinforce bad habits through bad practice. Essentially I guess what I'm asking is how to practice the RIGHT way, and what the logical progression of skill-improvement is.

If this seems like a noobish post pandering for some kind of magic pill to make me better, like asking for some new technique, know that it is not! I'm genuinely interested in learning the proper way.

Thanks for reading the long post and I look forward to your replies.

--DD

 

[SmashThugZ]

Just play, I guess.
Remember what you do wrong and try to fix it.
It always helps to play people of the same or higher level.

 

[Duff0]

Tech chase

 

[Wenbobular]

Yeah, Johnny gives good advice. Especially someone better who can critique your playing.
Really good players also know how to move their characters around the stage in a way that'll make you wonder what you're watching. I recently played Boomfan's DK and I got a lot of platform DK jank and random DK gimps like throw --> stagespike --> up-b...I guess that just comes from practice.
Seeing as how you're online at the moment...wanna play a few matches on Kaillera? Or do you not have an adapter?

Actually you'll have to be fast...it's getting late for me.

 

[SheerMadness]

Fastest way to get good at ssb64:

Play competitive melee.

 

[Zantetsu]

Playing the game will easily get you better.

I've been playing for 2 years and around the 2nd month of me playing, i learned the techs and then i just worked at them to try and implement them into my game.

I also recomend playing online just so you can play a variety of people to learn different playstyles and getting used to playing those playstyles as well.

 

[yoshi_fan]

First do z-cancels consistently, they are very imprtant.

Then make your own playstyle, ad sa the pros to criticize you.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Learn how to perform all advanced techniques, check which ones are important (may depend on character), practice them so much you can do them perfectly. Watch vids of good smashers, analyse strategy. Play against players that are better than you, and find out why you lose. Play against players that are as good as you, and try to find a way to win. Playing against players that are worse than you may help, but that mainly makes you become even better against players who are worse than you, and will make you learn things that are not effective against better players.

Or: use kirby (won't work against the top players though)

 

[kamekasu]

Fastest way to get good at ssb64:

Play competitive melee.

Fasho. I sucked at 64 until I came back to it after playing Melee. Did M2K play Melee first or 64 first?

 

[yoshi_fan]

Or: use kirby (won't work against the top players though)

ISDAH****INGPINKBALL D:

 

[Foda]

Play on kaillera as often as you can, watch videos, learn techniques, practice them until mastered.

 

[Wenbobular]

I need more people off the boards to play me. Winston finally gave me back my controllers

 

[Duff0]

I need more people off the boards to play me. Winston finally gave me back my controllers

I'll play you as soon as I get my adapter.

I played with a Xbox 360 controller for almost a year but I couldn't stand it anymore >.>

 

[Daedatheus]

Thanks for all the wise words haha. I'm definitely taking this stuff into account and have already improved. Now I can beat everyone I know pretty consistently. But of course, for online, that's not sufficient. I've set up a small TV in on my desk with smash bros plugged in for easy access when I need to practice/get a fix of SSB haha...

SO... Time for me to buy an N64 to USB adapter for my controller I think.
Any advice on what the best choice of adapter is?
Thanks again

 

[Duff0]

Thanks for all the wise words haha. I'm definitely taking this stuff into account and have already improved. Now I can beat everyone I know pretty consistently. But of course, for online, that's not sufficient. I've set up a small TV in on my desk with smash bros plugged in for easy access when I need to practice/get a fix of SSB haha...

SO... Time for me to buy an N64 to USB adapter for my controller I think.
Any advice on what the best choice of adapter is?
Thanks again

Yes, get the Vista gaming products one

Should be on amazon

 

[brandenkar]

the usb/psx adapter works fine on vista

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

Fastest way to get good at ssb64:

Play competitive melee.

Yeah.


Here's some questions to ask.

How well do you know your character? Can you easily combo someone else? Do you understand the physics of how your character and the other characters combo each other, with weights, and what not? And can you adapt and improvise pretty well/easily? Do you know all the uses of all your character's moves, and where their hitboxes are, and how they knockback the opponent? Do you know the same about your opponents character?

Also, a lot of the game is recognizing options. While you are recovering, are you aware of all your opponent's options of edgeguarding you,at all times? Are you aware of all your options for recovery? Which has the least risk involved? Which has the most? When edgeguarding them, do you know how they will recover? All their options, etc. How can you edgeguard? What's safe, what's predictable, or what is a good way to get them to where you want them to go?

How well do you understand spacing? That is, when considering your location in regards to theirs, what are all the options you have at that moment to retreat, attack, defend, or dodge, and which ones are bad, and which ones are good?

***

A lot of this comes from playing higher-up players, but still a lot of it comes from analyzing your own playstyle, and recognizing situations and the options therein. And prediction. If you go here... where are they going to go? And what will your options be there?

A tip: When watching videos of good players, what moves are used often? Which aren't?

That's all I'll say for now...

 

[Tech_EDGE]

edit...........

 

[Wenbobular]

Haha Philip, that sounded so generic.
I'm currently using the PSX adapter, no troubles for me.

 

[Thino]

play people stronger than you , and learn from your errors

 

[Daedatheus]

.
Thanks a lot everyone for the detailed responses. If you have more to say on the topic, please, be my guest.

How well do you understand spacing? That is, when considering your location in regards to theirs, what are all the options you have at that moment to retreat, attack, defend, or dodge, and which ones are bad, and which ones are good?

Aah.. I wasn't entirely sure exactly what spacing was until now. And spacing is definitely my weak point - I'm trying to work on exactly which moves to use and when, and how to successully approach. A lot of the time I'll approach and get rejected easily. Still win the matches but feel like a fool for jumping into unsafe situations almost head-on. This is especially tough when I practice up against multiple level 9 CPUs. Knowing how to approach multiple enemies is tough.

Speaking of which, until I get a hold of an N64 usb adapter and, the easy part, get Kaillera up and running with P64K, I can only really practice with CPUs (and less often a human player who I've only recently surpassed). I'm wondering, how effective of a practice match is facing off against 2 to 3 level 9's?

1v1 the CPU is just a dummy to beat around, but I can't consistently beat a team of 2, let alone 3 level 9 CPUs. Any tips towards the goal of beating multiple CPUs, and is this a worthwhile way to improve skills before I can face off against players online?

Thanks again everyone for the help, much appreciated. I'm pretty obsessed with this game as you can tell. Guess I'll eventually have to to play Brawl. Or not.

[Oh by the way I hate to advertise, but if you're a fan of oldschool VG music which some of you must be, go click my sig. It's a little project of mine and I'm sure you'll dig it.]

 

[Surri-Sama]

.
Thanks a lot everyone for the detailed responses. If you have more to say on the topic, please, be my guest.



Aah.. I wasn't entirely sure exactly what spacing was until now. And spacing is definitely my weak point - I'm trying to work on exactly which moves to use and when, and how to successully approach. A lot of the time I'll approach and get rejected easily. Still win the matches but feel like a fool for jumping into unsafe situations almost head-on. This is especially tough when I practice up against multiple level 9 CPUs. Knowing how to approach multiple enemies is tough.

Speaking of which, until I get a hold of an N64 usb adapter and, the easy part, get Kaillera up and running with P64K, I can only really practice with CPUs (and less often a human player who I've only recently surpassed). I'm wondering, how effective of a practice match is facing off against 2 to 3 level 9's?

1v1 the CPU is just a dummy to beat around, but I can't consistently beat a team of 2, let alone 3 level 9 CPUs. Any tips towards the goal of beating multiple CPUs, and is this a worthwhile way to improve skills before I can face off against players online?

Thanks again everyone for the help, much appreciated. I'm pretty obsessed with this game as you can tell. Guess I'll eventually have to to play Brawl. Or not.

[Oh by the way I hate to advertise, but if you're a fan of oldschool VG music which some of you must be, go click my sig. It's a little project of mine and I'm sure you'll dig it.]

If you need to play withotu others
DONT PLAY COMPUTERS!!!!
Play in training mode...perfect your short hops...and Z Cancles...then move onto combos with Falcon..he is the easiest to see progress with

Start with 2x Usmash-->2Uairs (youll need to land and Z cancle after this)-->2Uairs-->UpB
master this...then get creative youll see your play skyrocket!

PS. Make sure it adds up as an actuall combo (the meter shouldnt reset for any of this other then the last UpB) if it does reset, start again...mastering it means gettign it 99/100 without it reseting

 

[Wenbobular]

Multiple level 9's never really amounts to anything, Smash AI sucks

 

[Daedatheus]

Hey guys.
I have an additional question here, just came up.
With an opponent who grabs/throws a lot - smashes you, catches up with you, grabs/throws you before you can react - what is the best way to defend/attack against this? It's been really tough for me since no one really uses throws all that much, most relying on complex A combos and B moves. I try to be in the air as much as I can, SH-ing, flying around, jumping away, air attacks, but sometimes when I get hit, all I can do is get thrown! Especially a problem in parts of levels like the "**** tent" of Hyrule.

So yeah... against an opponent who is good at catching opportunities to grab/throw you, what's the best way to attack/defend?!?

 

[KevinM]

The drill of death

 

[Grunt]

So yeah... against an opponent who is good at catching opportunities to grab/throw you, what's the best way to attack/defend?!?

Kirby's dair.
works wonders on...everything.

 

[« Burner»(§)]

Eric_Cartman... Greatest SSB64 teacher ever... Wish he still played as much

 

[Zantetsu]

Eric_Cartman... Greatest SSB64 teacher ever... Wish he still played as much

I learned everything by myself except for DI.

Dre helped me with that

 

[Lawrencelot]

Hey guys.
I have an additional question here, just came up.
With an opponent who grabs/throws a lot - smashes you, catches up with you, grabs/throws you before you can react - what is the best way to defend/attack against this? It's been really tough for me since no one really uses throws all that much, most relying on complex A combos and B moves. I try to be in the air as much as I can, SH-ing, flying around, jumping away, air attacks, but sometimes when I get hit, all I can do is get thrown! Especially a problem in parts of levels like the "**** tent" of Hyrule.

So yeah... against an opponent who is good at catching opportunities to grab/throw you, what's the best way to attack/defend?!?

Learn to short-hop dair out of your shield. Staying in the air a lot should help if you can Z-cancel and space well.

 

[Zantetsu]

Learn to short-hop dair out of your shield. Staying in the air a lot should help if you can Z-cancel and space well.

He said he tried to stay in the air as much as possible and idk why short hoping out of a shield would work when grabs > shields.

Hey guys.
I have an additional question here, just came up.
With an opponent who grabs/throws a lot - smashes you, catches up with you, grabs/throws you before you can react - what is the best way to defend/attack against this? It's been really tough for me since no one really uses throws all that much, most relying on complex A combos and B moves. I try to be in the air as much as I can, SH-ing, flying around, jumping away, air attacks, but sometimes when I get hit, all I can do is get thrown! Especially a problem in parts of levels like the "**** tent" of Hyrule.

So yeah... against an opponent who is good at catching opportunities to grab/throw you, what's the best way to attack/defend?!?

If your trying to stay in the air as much as possible and it still isn't working, just keep a good distance and spam projectiles.

 

[AvengerAngel]

He said he tried to stay in the air as much as possible and idk why short hoping out of a shield would work when grabs > shields.

Because ADA + tilt + z2d combo KOs are way cooler than grab + edgeguard KOs

 

[Surri-Sama]

Because ADA + tilt + z2d combo KOs are way cooler than grab + edgeguard KOs

This guy isnt looking, to look good, he is looking to improve his game

 

[Zantetsu]

Because ADA + tilt + z2d combo KOs are way cooler than grab + edgeguard KOs

You don't understand what I was getting at.

Why would you shield jump > drill when you're facing a grab spammer. You would be better off just using a regular jump > drill.

 

[AvengerAngel]

I thought Law meant "opponent's aerial - you shield, opponent's z-cancel failure - you sh ADA out of shield and kick his ***" :x

 

[Wenbobular]

If you want some lessons in learning DI, just play a Falcon that is very good at doing Uair combos
That's how I learned how to DI, trying to get out of ******** pinwheel of doom combos.

 

[Surri-Sama]

If you want some lessons in learning DI, just play a Falcon that is very good at doing Uair combos
That's how I learned how to DI, trying to get out of ******** pinwheel of doom combos.

This is a terribul way to learn DI, Uairs are HARD to get out of and youll see allsmot no resaults like this...

I say try DIing out of Drills first, its easy, then move onto Tilts (Pikas or Kirby's Utilt) .....THEN things like Uairs from Falcon

 

[Zantetsu]

I learned DI by me and dre both picking fox, me running off the stage and using up b to try and get back on while dre would down smash me.

This is the best way IMO because if you don't DI correctly, you fall to your death and it takes longer to set up again. If your inpatient like me, you don't like to keep resetting so you'll try your hardest to get DI'ing down

Surri also has a lot of good things in his post. Try those also.

 

[AvengerAngel]

What's the DI on Kirby's utilt? >_>

I can't get out of it x(

 

[Daedatheus]

I've managed to DI out of some moves, but my DI technique is basically just "Tap direction repeatedly while being attacked/damaged."

Is good DI more about reflexes, as in pressing the right direction right as you're being hit, or is it technique, a certain way to move the control stick? Obviously there is a bit of both, just wondering what's more important. How is it really done, anyway?

Thanks for all the tips, guys. I'll try facing off against the grab-spamming person again and see how things go...

 

[Lawrencelot]

You don't understand what I was getting at.

Why would you shield jump > drill when you're facing a grab spammer. You would be better off just using a regular jump > drill.

Ah so that's what you meant. Well I said shield jump > drill because I assumed he was shielding a lot, if he wasn't shielding he wouldn't be grabbed a lot (assuming he always does something). I've had the problem when I was a noob, because I shield a lot, and jumping out of the shield was a good solution.