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Question on PorygonZ
- Thread starter Nafix
- Start date
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
Depends entirely upon your set. Khanczar is right in that you can use a heart scale to make it remember the move.
I want him to be a special sweeper. One set I'm thinking of is:
Nasty PLot
Tri Attack
Icebeam
Thunderbolt
I think thunderwave would also be a good move but i'm not sure what to take out.
Have any good moveset suggestions? Would hyperbeam be any good?
Nasty PLot
Tri Attack
Icebeam
Thunderbolt
I think thunderwave would also be a good move but i'm not sure what to take out.
Have any good moveset suggestions? Would hyperbeam be any good?
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
If you're using Scheme (old name of Nasty Plot which I use because it sounds cooler), you should probably run Recover somewhere on there (probably over Ice Beam), as even though poryZ is fast, it's still not THAT fast, and it WILL take hits. Use the trait Adaptive, which is essentially a second STAB, making PoryZ's normal attacks even stronger. You could probably go with Modest, 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd or Timid, 252 SAtk / 252 Speed / 4 HP, for a nature+EVs.
Hyperbeam would be awful. It is essentially a 75 power move, because it does its damage over two turns. Tri Attack only takes one turn to do 80 power, essentially over two turns being a 160 power move. Tri Attack also carries a possibility of status AND has perfect accuracy. Tri Attack>Hyperbeam. You can also switch if you need to after using tri attack, whereas that would be impossible with hyperbeam.
Twave is sort of a waste on it when it gets Agility. You may as well just run your original set, with agility>scheme, and use my first EV spread (Modest, 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd) if you wanted to outspeed stuff.
Hyperbeam would be awful. It is essentially a 75 power move, because it does its damage over two turns. Tri Attack only takes one turn to do 80 power, essentially over two turns being a 160 power move. Tri Attack also carries a possibility of status AND has perfect accuracy. Tri Attack>Hyperbeam. You can also switch if you need to after using tri attack, whereas that would be impossible with hyperbeam.
Twave is sort of a waste on it when it gets Agility. You may as well just run your original set, with agility>scheme, and use my first EV spread (Modest, 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd) if you wanted to outspeed stuff.
So, Porygon's triattack actually does 160 every turn because it gets original stab plus adapt boost? Which one would be a more capable fast sweeper:
Timid 252 spd/ 252 SpA
Triattack
Thunderbolt
Nasty P
Recover/Icebeam
or
Modest 252 HP/ 252 SpA
Agility
TriAtt
T-bolt
Icebeam/Recover
I feel like the 2nd set would be more effective. Would the type coverage be good tradeoff for recover? How often would Porygon be able to recover if he even survived a hit? Maybe I'm not giving enough credit to his defenses.
Timid 252 spd/ 252 SpA
Triattack
Thunderbolt
Nasty P
Recover/Icebeam
or
Modest 252 HP/ 252 SpA
Agility
TriAtt
T-bolt
Icebeam/Recover
I feel like the 2nd set would be more effective. Would the type coverage be good tradeoff for recover? How often would Porygon be able to recover if he even survived a hit? Maybe I'm not giving enough credit to his defenses.
commonyoshi
Smash Hero
I've been looking into Porygon-Z as well. Is there any way to ensure getting the adaptibility ability instead of the downgrade one?
I dont think there is, but you never know...
I dont think there is, but you never know...
I'm not aware of a way to ensure adaptibility. PorygonZ does seem like it could be a beast though, especially if it gets double stab on triattack.
Would hyperbeam have base attack of 300 with double stab??
With that kind of power, could you run a set like this:
Modest 252 HP/ 126 Def/ 126 SD
Hyper Beam
Recover
Agility
Reflect/ Light Screen
Something like this where you hyper beam, KO opp, take hit during next turn, then hyper beam again? I'm not sure if I understand this double stab business?
Would hyperbeam have base attack of 300 with double stab??
With that kind of power, could you run a set like this:
Modest 252 HP/ 126 Def/ 126 SD
Hyper Beam
Recover
Agility
Reflect/ Light Screen
Something like this where you hyper beam, KO opp, take hit during next turn, then hyper beam again? I'm not sure if I understand this double stab business?
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
When I said double stab, I meant that the STAB (same type attack bonus) gets applied twice, not that it doubles the power of the move. It actually multiplies it by 2.25, since its normal stab gives it a 1.5x multiplier, and adaptive adds a second 1.5x multiplier. After factoring in both multipliers, Tri Attack would have 180 power, and hyper beam would have 337 power (which is still weaker than tri attack over two turns). One of the main problems with HB is that it provides a free set up turn for your opponent to do anything. While you're recharging they could be nailing you with a CB'd or CG'd hit.
With a 180 power TA, it is almost as powerful as a SE tbolt or ib (190), and a nve hit (90) also just being shy of a neutral tbolt/ib (95). The only real notable thing that walls TA/tbolt is steelix, although it still won't like taking TAs coming off of 135 base satk and a double stab. It will have to have taken some damage already, though, otherwise it could just boom in your face and kill you.
PoryZ has pretty good defenses, actually. They're not great (both its def and sdef are 20 base less than pory2's), but they're enough to be able to take a hit and set up, then recover it off. I wouldn't bother with recover on the agility set, since you'll be outspeeding everything for (hopefully) the kill, anyway (and a lot of the hard hitting stuff gets nailed by *something* on your moveset). For the scheme set, I would run recover>ib, since honestly, the only reason to have another attack is so you can kill the stuff that resists normal (lol). Personally, I like the agility set better, since PoryZ's satk is high enough that with adaptive, it hits really hard even without a boost, and outspeeding stuff is important, as even with recover, you can still die.
With a 180 power TA, it is almost as powerful as a SE tbolt or ib (190), and a nve hit (90) also just being shy of a neutral tbolt/ib (95). The only real notable thing that walls TA/tbolt is steelix, although it still won't like taking TAs coming off of 135 base satk and a double stab. It will have to have taken some damage already, though, otherwise it could just boom in your face and kill you.
PoryZ has pretty good defenses, actually. They're not great (both its def and sdef are 20 base less than pory2's), but they're enough to be able to take a hit and set up, then recover it off. I wouldn't bother with recover on the agility set, since you'll be outspeeding everything for (hopefully) the kill, anyway (and a lot of the hard hitting stuff gets nailed by *something* on your moveset). For the scheme set, I would run recover>ib, since honestly, the only reason to have another attack is so you can kill the stuff that resists normal (lol). Personally, I like the agility set better, since PoryZ's satk is high enough that with adaptive, it hits really hard even without a boost, and outspeeding stuff is important, as even with recover, you can still die.
If it comes from adv, you have no way to know what its trait will be.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
If both have a perfect IV (it's just easier to calculate that way), the agility set will have 432 Spd after an agility, with modest and no spd EVs. The Scheme set will have 306 Spd with a timid nature and 252 Spd EVs.
The scheme set also needs every point it can get. The lowest Spd IV it can afford is 29, since otherwise it won't be able to outspeed adamant garchomp.
The scheme set also needs every point it can get. The lowest Spd IV it can afford is 29, since otherwise it won't be able to outspeed adamant garchomp.
outofdashdwz
Smash Lord
Not that I'm advocating use of Hyper Beam, but just pointing out that it can actually fit as an Explosion-esque sort of thing. After a Nasty Plot, there are literally only a handful of things that don't resist that can survive its Hyper Beam.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
Except instead of being able to send another pokemon in they get to SD or Scheme for free while you're "recharging," THEN kill you.
phish-it
Smash Champion
I'm thinking I should of used a timid nature with 252 speed EV's for the Nasty plot set, or a Modest 252 Special Attack EV's for the agility set.
ANyway, how exactly does download work? I seem to get unorthodox boosts from different pokemon: Sp atk from geodude etc. Is it based according to their ability or is it based off something else?
ANyway, how exactly does download work? I seem to get unorthodox boosts from different pokemon: Sp atk from geodude etc. Is it based according to their ability or is it based off something else?
@OP, I helped I<3Celebii get a porygonZ today. When he evolves he will try to learn the moves. I<3 Celebiis Porygon was at level 1 if that matters.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
Download is actually really simple. If your opponent has lower def than sdef, your atk rises. If your opponent has lower sdef than def, your satk rises.
leafgreen...why take out Ice Beam over T. Bolt????
T. Bolt takes on ....Water and Flying...2 types! It doesn't leave a touch on Ground and is weak against Dragon.
Ice Beam takes on Ground, Grass, Flying, and Dragon (HELLO, Salamance and Garchomp!!!!
T. Bolt won't leave anything on them), weak on Water
So, let's see, Ice Beam can take care of one of the types just as well as T. Bolt can (Flying) and is super effective on 2 of the types T. Bolt can't even touch/is weak against (Ground and Dragon). T. Bolt is super effective on one of the things Ice beam isn't that effective on (Water).
T. Bolt takes on ....Water and Flying...2 types! It doesn't leave a touch on Ground and is weak against Dragon.
Ice Beam takes on Ground, Grass, Flying, and Dragon (HELLO, Salamance and Garchomp!!!!
T. Bolt won't leave anything on them), weak on WaterSo, let's see, Ice Beam can take care of one of the types just as well as T. Bolt can (Flying) and is super effective on 2 of the types T. Bolt can't even touch/is weak against (Ground and Dragon). T. Bolt is super effective on one of the things Ice beam isn't that effective on (Water).
why is adaptability > download?
naturally, sending out porygon randomly should grant you the useful special x1.5 about 50% the time, but in addition to switching him out intelligently (to pokemon you know have superior defense) and the intelligate guesses on pokemon who have equal df/spdf ration (that you would predict have it padded one way or another for its natural benefit in competitive play...)..that "50%" flip is alot more like 75% in your favor if you use it right.
Example: Your last poke gets killed by Rhyperior
you send out PoryZ..BAM. Special-Freakin-Up
they fear icebeam and switch out to water
BAM 1hko t-bolt
Or, earlier in the match they had a ghost poke active. Later on, you send out poryZ and get special-Up. Obviously they're gonna switch to ghost to resist Tri-Attack..but u u remember their ghost and bam, shadowball 1hko, no?
and whats better in the best-case scenarios is that porygon remains uber-powerful no matter what element you utilizes. How can you NOT go wrong w/ this, assuming their blissey is dead?
Is it not worth the risk?
Adapt: TriAttack = 2.25, beams = 1.00
download: TriAttack = 1.5 + special x 1.5 = stronger than STAB at 2.25
...........-PLUS- ice/bolt/shadowball = 1.5(!)
therefore in long run, download gives you more benefit, since it can power up your ice/bolt to make Z even more dangerous, since it can now crush predicted switches from the oponent, whereas they may switch to a Rock, Steel, of Ghost to defend against TriAttack...and get rediculously punished for it.
i have a modest, download porygon level 70 right now...and it kinna worries me everyone is hard for adaptability, but in the heat of battle, where you can make predictions it seems like download could be more useful.
my pool set atm is TriAttack, Recover, IceBeam, SignalBeam(prolly gonna drop to t-wave/shadowball, since that makes poryZ more useful versus a switch to a pokes that would normally beat it one on one, if you can predict the switch, punish, then switch yourself)
naturally, sending out porygon randomly should grant you the useful special x1.5 about 50% the time, but in addition to switching him out intelligently (to pokemon you know have superior defense) and the intelligate guesses on pokemon who have equal df/spdf ration (that you would predict have it padded one way or another for its natural benefit in competitive play...)..that "50%" flip is alot more like 75% in your favor if you use it right.
Example: Your last poke gets killed by Rhyperior
you send out PoryZ..BAM. Special-Freakin-Up
they fear icebeam and switch out to water
BAM 1hko t-bolt
Or, earlier in the match they had a ghost poke active. Later on, you send out poryZ and get special-Up. Obviously they're gonna switch to ghost to resist Tri-Attack..but u u remember their ghost and bam, shadowball 1hko, no?
and whats better in the best-case scenarios is that porygon remains uber-powerful no matter what element you utilizes. How can you NOT go wrong w/ this, assuming their blissey is dead?
Is it not worth the risk?
Adapt: TriAttack = 2.25, beams = 1.00
download: TriAttack = 1.5 + special x 1.5 = stronger than STAB at 2.25
...........-PLUS- ice/bolt/shadowball = 1.5(!)
therefore in long run, download gives you more benefit, since it can power up your ice/bolt to make Z even more dangerous, since it can now crush predicted switches from the oponent, whereas they may switch to a Rock, Steel, of Ghost to defend against TriAttack...and get rediculously punished for it.
i have a modest, download porygon level 70 right now...and it kinna worries me everyone is hard for adaptability, but in the heat of battle, where you can make predictions it seems like download could be more useful.
my pool set atm is TriAttack, Recover, IceBeam, SignalBeam(prolly gonna drop to t-wave/shadowball, since that makes poryZ more useful versus a switch to a pokes that would normally beat it one on one, if you can predict the switch, punish, then switch yourself)
Since I've been playing DP (that's since Sept 2006), I've had a Modest shiny PorygonZ (yes I'm too lucky) with Download, Scheme/Recover/Boltbeam and it has always worked fine for me. It's just as Cyphus said, Adaptive is really overrated and that's why the usefulness of Download is often overlooked. Bbut trust me, that Sp Atk boost really comes in handy sometimes. As long as you know when to switch in PorygonZ to get that boost, you're probably better off than having Adaptive.