Queen of the Underworld: Medusa's Secret Hideout

[Jovian the Conqueror]

Hopefully Medusa returns in the next Kid Icarus game.

Probably, but most likely only as a cameo, or as the endboss of a single stage.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So do you guys think we will be waiting 18 more years for another Kid Icarus game just like Hades said? He technically said 26 years I think, but now it's 18 because of Uprising being 8 years old now.

 

[Klaymoor]

She will. She was in the original as well as Uprising though I don't know if she was in the Gameboy game. Anyways, she has been in the series since the beginning so she is just about as important as Pit and Palutena.

She wasn't in the Game Boy game, I heard that game wasn't supposed to be a Kid Icarus game, but the devs slapped the title before release and changed the main character for Pit, but didn't change the main villain at all.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

She wasn't in the Game Boy game, I heard that game wasn't supposed to be a Kid Icarus game, but the devs slapped the title before release and changed the main character for Pit, but didn't change the main villain at all.

Kid Icarus Uprising originally wasn't supposed to be a Kid Icarus game either. Sakurai wanted to make a shooting game with air and ground battles and then thought KI would be the perfect fit.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

She wasn't in the Game Boy game, I heard that game wasn't supposed to be a Kid Icarus game, but the devs slapped the title before release and changed the main character for Pit, but didn't change the main villain at all.

Kid Icarus Uprising originally wasn't supposed to be a Kid Icarus game either. Sakurai wanted to make a shooting game with air and ground battles and then thought KI would be the perfect fit.

So in a spiritual sense the original Kid Icarus has yet to receive a sequel?

 

[zferolie]

The 5th fighter is being shown on the 16th at 9 am. Get ready guys

 

[Wolfie557]

She will. She was in the original as well as Uprising though I don't know if she was in the Gameboy game. Anyways, she has been in the series since the beginning so she is just about as important as Pit and Palutena.

Hopefully she gets a bigger role than Uprising.....and a motive that isnt just 'i want muh revenge'

So do you guys think we will be waiting 18 more years for another Kid Icarus game just like Hades said? He technically said 26 years I think, but now it's 18 because of Uprising being 8 years old now.

wow its been that long. Tho I only played it in 2014, so. 6 for me. I did try it in a demo before / during 3ds launch

I remember the monoeyes were still just 2D images in the flying section XD

Kid Icarus Uprising originally wasn't supposed to be a Kid Icarus game either. Sakurai wanted to make a shooting game with air and ground battles and then thought KI would be the perfect fit.

It was starfox at one point iirc

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

Hopefully she gets a bigger role than Uprising.....and a motive that isnt just 'i want muh revenge'

I wouldn't hold my breath. Actually I'm rather nervous about any future role she may have, especially if Sakurai is involved.

 

[Klaymoor]

Has anyone been enjoying the salt so far?

 

[zferolie]

Has anyone been enjoying the salt so far?

Basically this.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

The DLC characters apparently have already been all chosen by Nintendo. I knew the fifth DLC was either going to be a Fire Emblem character, a new Pokemon, a third party character like Sora or a character from a new IP that Nintendo wants to push, and expect more of the same for the last six. Speaking of salt, I remember the backlash Dark Pit got.

The truth is, the Kid Icarus series is too unimportant to Nintendo, and Medusa just did not make a big enough impact. I'm glad she was in Uprising, but at the same time her role in that game was the worst of both worlds.

 

[Klaymoor]

As far as I recall, Nintendo gave Sakurai a list of characters they wanted, and he had to pick who gets in and such. What really misdirected us was during Joker's reveal, Reggie said all characters would be like him, really out of the blue, unexpected third parties and such.
Byleth was a bad choice in many many ways. It doesn't matter how unique the moveset is, it's about the feel of the character (although with that moveset, it could easily have been a Monster Hunter and no one would be rioting). Another blue-haired, nothing-faced anime pretty boy feels AWFUL (seriously, FE character design is the least inspired thing ever), and adding them to the game after the whole Corrin fiasco is totally tone deaf. They could easily avoided most of the backlash if this was the first character announced, because previous DLC characters have set the bar way too high for someone like Byleth, who not only comes from a franchise that the Smash community has grown to dislike, but also he's way too new, when there are other older Nintendo characters that had earned the right to be in Smash and they are still absent. Not to mention all the pointless theatrics and secrecy of their reveal, which I'm pretty sure had something to do with this, because they knew they'd get a lot of hate (even the trailer aknowledges this).
All in all, I don't care either way, the game was already awesome, but from a marketing (and possibly PR) standpoint this was a disaster.

And regarding Kid Icarus and Medusa, yeah this is a franchise Nintendo wants to kill, I remember First 4 Figures said they presented Nintendo some models for KIU figures they were working on and wanted the license to sell them. But despite Nintendo being really impressed with them, they didn't give F4F the license and prohibited them from showing said models to the public. There're also unreleased AR cards (now Medusa (Rare) is the only one, rubbing salt in the wound), canceled figmas and such. Smash Bros is the only thing Kid Icarus has left, and I think a lot of it has to do with trying to market Kid Icarus Uprising by including Pit in Brawl back in the day.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

I actually had no idea about First 4 Figures and KIU. There definitely seems to be favouritism at Nintendo, and we all Sakurai really loves Fire Emblem. In fact, the presentation yesterday felt like a FE lecture! I expect the remaining DLC will now be third party characters or new characters I never heard of. I also got the impression that Sakurai and Nintendo really dislike Medusa, from her strange non-role in KIU to her omission from Smash in favour of Dark Pit.

 

[Klaymoor]

I've heard rumours (nothing confirmed) that Sakurai doesn't like Medusa because she is kind of 'ugly' (I'm paraphrasing, I can't recall the exact words, but that was the sentiment), and we all know she likes Viridi. I don't think Nintendo cares either way about Medusa, but I can tell that for whatever reason they don't want to do anything with Kid Icarus. I've seen this situation happen in other companies too, killing franchises and merchandise for no good reason (one that immediately comes to mind is Disney cancelling Wander Over Yonder despite it's popularity, even cancelling merchandise and such, no reason given at all). Companies are weird with their franchises. Look at Mother 3, everyone wants that game but they never released it over here.
Dark Pit didn't take Medusa's spot, he was a last minute addition because he's a palette swap of Pit, same model and animations, just recolor it and BAM, another character. He wasn't taking anyone's spot, if he wasn't added no one would take his place. Same goes for Lucina, but she needed some tweaks to her model.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

I agree that Dark Pit didn't directly take Medusa's spot, but the backlash to his inclusion pretty much killed whatever slim chance Medusa had getting in. And Sakurai didn't like Medusa because she's 'ugly'? I understand that her concept art from the original KI was basically just a silly, overweight Gorgon caricature, but her redesign in KIU was incredible. And Ridley and Bowser aren't exactly easy on the eyes, either.

 

[Sunny-Zee]

Guys... this is just putting us in a rather dour mood.

Spoiler: Relevant W.I.P. Fan art

https://stilldanytrash.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F187050460725

Where’s Dalek_Kolt and his model rips when you need him?

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

How about this?

 

[Klaymoor]

Ah, drawing angry characters, my specialty. Quick tip: the outer end of the eyebrows almost never move, but the inner ones do, that's the key to give them expression (in the picture she looks sad because both, the outer and inner ends are low). Also her hairline is too low, doesn't give the eyebrows enough space to do their thing. And the split of her hair is above her right eye, not in the middle. Stop me now or I'll continue forever, I love this character's design XD

 

[meleebrawler]

As far as I recall, Nintendo gave Sakurai a list of characters they wanted, and he had to pick who gets in and such. What really misdirected us was during Joker's reveal, Reggie said all characters would be like him, really out of the blue, unexpected third parties and such.
Byleth was a bad choice in many many ways. It doesn't matter how unique the moveset is, it's about the feel of the character (although with that moveset, it could easily have been a Monster Hunter and no one would be rioting). Another blue-haired, nothing-faced anime pretty boy feels AWFUL (seriously, FE character design is the least inspired thing ever), and adding them to the game after the whole Corrin fiasco is totally tone deaf. They could easily avoided most of the backlash if this was the first character announced, because previous DLC characters have set the bar way too high for someone like Byleth, who not only comes from a franchise that the Smash community has grown to dislike, but also he's way too new, when there are other older Nintendo characters that had earned the right to be in Smash and they are still absent. Not to mention all the pointless theatrics and secrecy of their reveal, which I'm pretty sure had something to do with this, because they knew they'd get a lot of hate (even the trailer aknowledges this).
All in all, I don't care either way, the game was already awesome, but from a marketing (and possibly PR) standpoint this was a disaster.

And regarding Kid Icarus and Medusa, yeah this is a franchise Nintendo wants to kill, I remember First 4 Figures said they presented Nintendo some models for KIU figures they were working on and wanted the license to sell them. But despite Nintendo being really impressed with them, they didn't give F4F the license and prohibited them from showing said models to the public. There're also unreleased AR cards (now Medusa (Rare) is the only one, rubbing salt in the wound), canceled figmas and such. Smash Bros is the only thing Kid Icarus has left, and I think a lot of it has to do with trying to market Kid Icarus Uprising by including Pit in Brawl back in the day.

When has Sakurai ever not done something out of fear for backlash from "fans"?

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

Does anybody know the source of the rumour that Sakurai allegedly dislikes Medusa because he thought her character design was ugly?

 

[zferolie]

Does anybody know the source of the rumour that Sakurai allegedly dislikes Medusa because he thought her character design was ugly?

Yeah thats the first time i heard that

 

[meleebrawler]

Yeah thats the first time i heard that

He helped make Uprising. Couldn't he have used his director powers to change her appearance if he didn't like it?

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

He helped make Uprising. Couldn't he have used his director powers to change her appearance if he didn't like it?

I'm not sure whether he meant her design in the concept art of the original KI (which was supposed to be a caricature of an ugly monster), or her redesign in Uprising, or both.

 

[Garo]

Wouldn't put too much stock on those rumours. I have seen many instances of Sakurai's meaning being lost in translation or his words being straight up twisted to fit a narrative someone wants to build. Here's an excerpt from KIU Iwata Asks where they mention Medusa a few times:

Iwata:
Sakurai-san, I heard the real goal this time isn't to defeat Medusa. There's actually quite a lot after that.

Sakurai:
That's right. We actually prepared a lot more volume for after the Medusa battle. The developments after you defeat Medusa are definitely more interesting, I think. It's more fun to enter the world of Kid Icarus without knowing anything ahead of time, so I've been keeping a lid on things.

Iwata:
How big is the single-player story mode?

Sakurai:
I don't want to spoil the fun so I'd rather not say it, but I will say we've packed in quite a lot so it's highly concentrated. There definitely are developments after the battle against Medusa. One theme this time was not simply having a plain structure of Medusa versus Palutena.

Iwata:
You didn't want it to simply revolve around a battle between good and evil.

Sakurai:
Well, I think good versus evil is all right. But in this game, multiple armies led by gods appear. They each have their own claims and way of thinking and move toward different goals.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

Wouldn't put too much stock on those rumours. I have seen many instances of Sakurai's meaning being lost in translation or his words being straight up twisted to fit a narrative someone wants to build.

Well he didn't use those exact words, apparently that was what was implied, but I don't know the exact quote.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Sorry for going silent, I just got accepted into grad school so things have been chaotic.
Also not sure what else I could do for Medusa at this point. Maybe give her legs?

 

[Sunny-Zee]

Sorry for going silent, I just got accepted into grad school so things have been chaotic.
Also not sure what else I could do for Medusa at this point. Maybe give her legs?

First of all, congratulations dude! Here’s hoping you go far.
And second of all, yes, a Medusa model with legs would be excellent to see, even if they’re a hassle to model. (Although, I would recommend using the Smash!Medusa art Klaymoor made a few pages back for reference.)

 

[Klaymoor]

Agh, sorry I've been away for a while, I'm not feeling well by any means x.x
Let's see...
1- Jovian the Conqueror I'm with Garo someone took something out of context, pulled out of their butt or whatever, that's why I specifically said it was a rumour, something we should take with a grain of salt. For all we know Sakurai could've said something like "she's difficult to animate because of her snakes" or something like that and that would make more sense in many contexts (as in, takes more development time, for example).
All I can remember is that I read it on some forum or reddit A LONG time ago.
2- Dalek_Kolt Maybe? You don't have to feel forced to do anything if you don't want to, and the Medusa mod for Brawl showed us that she can actually look good doing stuff with her long dress. But if you really want to do it, go ahead, I'll look forward to it.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

Sakurai's own exact opinion of Medusa remains a mystery. I don't think he hates her, but I don't think he has any particular interest in her, indifferent maybe. A lot of the KIU fan community dislike her however because the conventional wisdom is her personality is 'boring'. I think her personality was fine, in fact I think she had a sense of gravitas and solemnity that the other villains lacked. That was my main problem with Hades: he was built up as a huge threat, but at the same time we were asked to not take him too seriously.

 

[Klaymoor]

IDK if "a lot" of the community. So far my Medusa pics have been relatively popular in some KIU 'rings', so to speak (let's say 5% of the people 'hated' her).
Maybe the thing is she isn't as popular as others, and thus most fans are indifferent to her. Pit and Dark Pit are way more popular than any other character (and let's be real, it's all the yaoi, don't try to pretend it isn't), while Palutena comes in a far second place (thanks to Smash), followed by Viridi. Then you have a bunch of clumped characters at the bottom, with Phosphora being a little more represented than the rest (I wonder why.../s), but still nowhere near the aforementioned characters. Hades is a wildcard, while many people claim he's very popular, I don't see him being represented much TBH. Fanart-wise I can see why, his design is a complete mess with too many things going on at the same time, but besides that I don't see him much, except in a couple of memes.
IMO all the characters are great in their own way and deserve more representation than they get, with a few outliers (BlaPi can burn in hell, I hate when any franchise just paints the main character black and call it a new character, so dumb).

 

[Sunny-Zee]

Well, when you’ve been a long time fan of Transformers like I’ve been (started with the Unicron Trilogy, baby!), you tend to get used to repaints being presented as separate characters to fill up the cast (Cheetor and Tigertron, Bumblebee and Cliffjumper post-2006, virtually ALL of the “Seekers,” with Starscream, Thundercracker, and Skywarp forming the classic 1984 trio). This goes double for the whole “black repaint” phenomenon, with it’s most represented characters being the aforementioned Skywarp, and the many black Optimus Primes released under some variation of the names “Black Convoy”, “Scourge” (a la Car Robots/Robots in Disguise 2001) and, most frequently, and most relevant to the issue, as “Nemesis Prime.” But with the exception of 2001’s Scourge, or Dark Pit for that matter (he strikes me more as like a snippier goth Bizarro than a true Shadow the Hedgehog type to me), none of the Black Prime repaints had any real set characterization across all media that features them.
And now, I have officially broken all of your minds.

Spoiler: Back to our girl Medusa...

I don’t know know about you guys, but Medusa’s regular hair kinda looks like Eric Andre’s signature messy hair. I can kind of see her doing the sort of thing he does at the start of each episode of his show.
“Ladies and gentlemen, it’s The Medusa Gorgon Show!” (Medusa comes barreling onto the set screaming, destroying it as the live band plays a frantic theme tune, before she tiredly takes her seat as the production assistants swiftly reset the stage as Palutena (somehow) comes in and takes the seat next to her)
What can I say, I was kind of in the mood for $#!+posting.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

I think all of the characters, save for the 'big four', are rather underdeveloped and underused, some more so than others. But Medusa gets singled out for her humourless personality and all of the hype she got in the marketing material, and it is particularly strange how she is segregated to the first nine chapters, much more so than most of the rest of the cast. Medusa's detractors may possibly be just a very vocal minority, but on certain forums she does get a disproportionate amount of vitriol, perhaps partly because of her disappointingly small role, but possibly because people feel the she is a roadblock for 'better' characters like Hades. On the other hand, Hades seems to get lauded a lot as the greatest ever villain. It seems Sakurai crammed in as many characters as he possibly could, but he wanted none of them to steal any thunder away from the big four.

But the rest of the cast are often cited as being more memorable than Medusa because of their zany and theatrical dialogue.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, to anyone wondering what Sakurai will do after Ultimate's done...he doesn't know himself. Like, at all.
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._sakurai_and_he_doesnt_know_what_hell_do_next

Something tells me we won't see that KI sequel any time soon still.

 

[Sunny-Zee]

So, to anyone wondering what Sakurai will do after Ultimate's done...he doesn't know himself. Like, at all. http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/02/smash_bros_ultimate_was_iwatas_final_mission_for_sakurai_and_he_doesnt_know_what_hell_do_next

Something tells me we won't see that KI sequel any time soon still.

View attachment 260756

No kidding? The man has some peculiar priorities, he honestly didn’t think he’d make it this far. Something about that is actually kind of amusing, alongside the heartwarming dedication to Iwata’s “last request”. I just wish we’d see more Kid Icarus outside of Smash.
Also, mangled link, please fix.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

How did you all feel about Medusa's eleventh hour deus ex machina during the final battle with Hades? It seemed to divide opinion, some people loved it, some people hated it. As for me, it really irked me, even more so than Medusa being just a pawn of Hades.

 

[meleebrawler]

How did you all feel about Medusa's eleventh hour deus ex machina during the final battle with Hades? It seemed to divide opinion, some people loved it, some people hated it. As for me, it really irked me, even more so than Medusa being just a pawn of Hades.

Does it come with very little explanation or warning? Sure, but so does a lot of the stuff in Uprising. The punch is a small bit but it opens many doors of character interpretation and potential future roles for Medusa.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

Does it come with very little explanation or warning? Sure, but so does a lot of the stuff in Uprising. The punch is a small bit but it opens many doors of character interpretation and potential future roles for Medusa.

It seemed to be the one thing that Medusa is most remembered for, seeing its the only remotely interesting thing Medusa does outside being a boss, but it did little for me, perhaps because it got spoiled to me before I finished Uprising. And even then, Hades overpowers her in just a matter of seconds, and is immediately forgotten. It felt like it was just thrown in at the last second just as an excuse to give Hades a new head. If you keep killing and reviving characters, especially just to be a bit-part deus ex machina, then they lose credibility.

 

[Sunny-Zee]

It seemed to be the one thing that Medusa is most remembered for, seeing its the only remotely interesting thing Medusa does outside being a boss, but it did little for me, perhaps because it got spoiled to me before I finished Uprising. And even then, Hades overpowers her in just a matter of seconds, and is immediately forgotten. It felt like it was just thrown in at the last second just as an excuse to give Hades a new head. If you keep killing and reviving characters, especially just to be a bit-part deus ex machina, then they lose credibility.

I’m guessing a third-act “enemy civil war” would’ve been a more fulfilling ending, narratively speaking.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

wow its been that long. Tho I only played it in 2014, so. 6 for me. I did try it in a demo before / during 3ds launch

Yep. Uprising came out in 2012.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

I’m guessing a third-act “enemy civil war” would’ve been a more fulfilling ending, narratively speaking.

In my opinion, the Medeusa ex machina only served two functions: someone was needed to destroy Hades's head to reveal his final form, but also to crowbar in a surprise Medusa cameo. I don't think it really added anything to her character, considering the fact that she died almost immediately and bringing her back again would just be bad writing. Also, the dialogue contradicts the Medusa vs. Hades idol: Medusa states that Hades 'keeps reviving me', the idol states that it's her surviving spirit that intervened.