Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[N. Onymous]

Being a paid title doesn't necessarily preclude having microtransactions, see: Bravely Default's SP Drinks. It does mean they're much rarer, since the money goes to the company in one large payment rather than multiple small ones.

Nintendo entering the mobile gaming world is one of the best opportunities for Panel de Pon to come back, in my opinion. I can definitely see the mobile gaming market falling in love with not just the colorful graphics and the smooth gameplay, but Lip and friends as well (hopefully not literally, though). There's a gold mine here, I'm tellin' youse.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I wouldn't expect them to completely change the gameplay just to appeal to casual audiences (like it wasn't already doing in the first place? apparently?).

Don't say they won't, because this happened already with Puyo Pop, much to the chagrin of longtime fans of the series. They also did it with Bomberman of all things.

The mobile marketplace is saturated with garbage and knockoffs, and it does not reward innovation.​

 

[N. Onymous]

When did Puyo Puyo change gameplay at all (besides in Puyo Puyo Tetris)? I don't follow the Puyo series as closely as Panepon, so forgive me for not knowing...

I'm indifferent to the concept of a full-scale gameplay change. I am the guy who has come up for ideas for, at various times, a Panel de Pon RPG, a Panel de Pon fighting game, and Super Mario 64/Donkey Kong 64/Banjo-Kazooie-style collect-'em-up platformer starring the fairy characters. What would upset me is if the gameplay was similar to the other puzzle games, but... different somehow. Like if they messed up the physics even more than Planet Puzzle League did, or if the blocks fell from the top instead of rising from the bottom, or if they changed garbage blocks to be cleared only via combos for no good reason.

 

[PsychoJosh]

When did Puyo Puyo change gameplay at all (besides in Puyo Puyo Tetris)? I don't follow the Puyo series as closely as Panepon, so forgive me for not knowing...

It's actually pretty disappointing. Puyo is basically Sega's Panel de Pon so changing the gameplay like this is distressing to longtime fans of the series.

 

[N. Onymous]

That, to me, looks more like a spin-off than anything (like Puyo Tetris). I can see how it would be jarring to longtime fans, though. At least they didn't remove the characters.

Now that I think of it, a Panel de Pon/Tetris game would be interesting to see... particularly if they combined the gameplay of both games.

 

[N. Onymous]

How's that video coming, Souldin? Out of curiosity.

 

[N. Onymous]

Kapus found an interesting Panel de Pon-related photo set on Pixiv recently. It's a series of drawings of each of the main fairies and their... I suppose "Dark" counterparts: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=53340764

I love the art style used here.

 

[Kawai nic]

Wow, how beautiful it is !

EDIT : Em, I just think the Dark counterparts are... a little bit abused :/

 

[N. Onymous]

I get you there. The characters of Panel de Pon have this sort of sweetness and inoffensiveness about them, like characters from a kid's show, so it's kind of strange and awkward to see the alternate versions of them in such skimpy outfits. "Dark Neris" is wearing more, though! : P

I was mostly posting it for the drawings of the normal fairies. They almost seem like they could be official artwork from an actual PDP game.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Why do they become naked when they turn evil?

Feels like Lip is about to pull out a Gibson Thunderbird and play bass for Marilyn Manson.

 

[RouffWestie]

Some of those dark versions are perfectly designed. (Only ones I don't like are Elias and Ruby)
Most of their qualities completely go against what makes the good characters good, and yet they share symbols or traits that connect them to their counterparts.
Their psychotic mood works really well in this case because it's like they still retain a sort of "happiness" to them that the good versions have. It's like evil happiness.

 

[AEMehr]

Why do they become naked when they turn evil?

generic anime corruption at it's finest, along with the eyeshadow lol

I really love the artstyle though, it seems super familiar.

 

[Souldin]

As usual, I'm kinda late to the party to join in on the discussion. I've just been too busy to keep up with smashboards as a whole, though I admit part of it is me procrastinating on catching up since I'm always left so far behind.

..Anyway! It's Panel de Pon's 20th today, which I've been greatly looking forward to all year. I had a lot of plans for stuff I wanted to do for it, but work and college haven't left me a lot of time to prepare, and I've shown up mostly empty handed, sad to say. I'll get some stuff to show off eventually though!

On the bright side though, the Panel de Pon tag on pixiv flourished during this time and we got a lot of awesome new pictures. To help celebrate, I'll share one I really liked!

Happy BIrthday, Panel de Pon!

One thing I did manage to do for myself though was import Nintendo Puzzle Collection for the GCN (though I had to get an action replay in order to get past region lock). When I have a moment, I'm gonna sit down and happily play through it on my big screen. I've played it on an emulator before and it's really hard.


Darn, I'm probably too late by now. I have a lot of stuff I'd love to contribute, haha. I've spent a lot of time trying to analyze Panel de Pon's "lore" and characters to the bone.


EDIT: Oh and as much as I love my Roll avatar(s), this occasion requires me to switch to a fairy!

Wow, that artwork is absolutely amazing. I haven't done much looking around for Panel De Pon artwork after the 20th anniversary, at least outside of Miiverse. I was disappointed at the lack of it on Miiverse; although it seems more of the fans put up 20th anniversary pictures and comments before the anniversary day itself.

Also, yeah you're a little late now, but who knows, I might do another of these videos for next year's slightly less impressive 21st anniversary of the series. On that note, whilst I don't know how or if I can post a video on this forum, here is a link to my Panel De Pon 20th Anniversary video. I did upload it on the 20th anniversary, but I was unfortunately busy afterwards, which is why I'm only now posting it up on the forum. Furthermore, just in the case the link doesn't work, you can find it by searching up Tea Time 39: Panel De Pon's 20th Anniversary!

I'll admit, it's not exactly the greatest of videos. It's half scripted without fully being scripted, and I don't think that works too well in tandem. My Tea Time series of videos are more casual in nature, so I'm not used to working off a script and I didn't have the time to re-record moments and stick various sound clips together. Still, I think I do cover a lot of Panel De Pon information, and I do provide information on how to access Panel De Pon data in Pokémon Puzzle Challenge. As that is the closest most people will get to playing as Lip currently, I thought it was of key importance to cover.

 

[N. Onymous]

I really love the artstyle though, it seems super familiar.

I knowwww, I wish I know what the art style reminds me of. >< I'd say it's most like the difference between pre-Fever Puyo Puyo and post-Fever, but that still doesn't feel right.

Wow, that artwork is absolutely amazing. I haven't done much looking around for Panel De Pon artwork after the 20th anniversary, at least outside of Miiverse. I was disappointed at the lack of it on Miiverse; although it seems more of the fans put up 20th anniversary pictures and comments before the anniversary day itself.

Given how much Lip art I posted to Miiverse in the lead-up to the SSB4 release, I now feel kind of bad I never posted anything for the big 20 there. And it'd be the best place for it, too! ^^; Oh well, at least there's my Tumblr.

 

[N. Onymous]

It's a strange feeling when you watch a video of a Super Mario Maker update that patches in a Lip outfit for Costume Mario, and you get excited because, after all this time, we're finally getting some non-Smash Bros. acknowledgement that the Panel de Pon exists and is a thing...

...and then you wake up.

 

[RouffWestie]

Anybody know about Team Fortress 2 here?
A random idea that I just thought up; Take a class from TF2 and match it with the fairy you think best fits them.
Mine:
Scout = Lip
Soldier = Sherbet
Pyro = Flare
Demoman = Elias
Heavy = Seren
Engineer = Thiana
Medic = Neris
Sniper = Windy
Spy = Ruby

 

[Deleted member]

Guess I missed the 20th anniversary by a week, huh? Ah well, better late than never, I suppose. The rigging gave my much more trouble than anticipated.

Spoiler

Don't expect a custom kart though, I wouldn't be able to design one if my life depended on it.

 

[Kawai nic]

Is this a hack skin of Toad ?

EDIT : Oh, it looks more like Toadette, it is shown on the bottom-right of the screen.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, it's over whatever small character you want, maybe even whatever character you want, regardless of size, haven't really tested mixing different ones yet... For example, here's Lip over Baby Daisy. I just chose Toadette first because of her twintails, turns rigging a single ponytail to them simply doesn't work, so Lip's hair is static instead. Peach/Daisy would be great, but they are in a different size class, so without custom animation work, which I won't do, that's not gonna happen.

If you're curious, I can ramble about MK Wii for a bit:

Spoiler

A lot of characters share the same boneset, maybe with very small differences. For example, Toad(-ette) and Baby Peach/Daisy have the same skeleton, just that the babies have one added bone for their crowns. That means that Lip, who is rigged over Toadette, can also replace any of the other mentioned characters, without the animations messing up (the missing crown bone has no impact whatsoever). And, while I haven't checked yet, I'm 99% sure that Baby Mario/Luigi's skeleton is 100% identical to that of the princesses. So out of the 8 small characters in the game, 6 can be used. Koopa's and Dry Bones' is a bit too different, as they are hunched over and also taller, which could result in animation errors, dunno how that would look.

Despite this, you can simply replace, for example Koopa's files with Toadettes without any errors, as every individual file already contains everything important (model, animations, textures, etc.) You'd just have Toadette with Koopa's voice then.

Technically speaking, every character+kart combo is a separate character. If you so desire, you could simply replace, let's say, Peach on her standard bike with anything you want, every other combination will still be Peach. Although you can't replace karts with bikes and vice versa. I mean, you can, but it is really glitchy... And there are a lot of combinations (24 characters, each with 12(?) vehicles, which would be 288 combinations. And that's not taking the lower-poly MP models into account.

Tl;dr: A lot of characters share the same skeleton and given the resources, I could replace every kart and bike from Toadette with a different fairy.

 

[RouffWestie]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/11/the_3ds_is_getting_a_new_puzzle_and_dragons_game

Wowee, what a surprise. Another PAD reskin coming tomorrow.
I'm not even mad, this is actually hilarious.

 

[JaidynReiman]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/11/the_3ds_is_getting_a_new_puzzle_and_dragons_game

Wowee, what a surprise. Another PAD reskin coming tomorrow.
I'm not even mad, this is actually hilarious.

Of course, Puzzle and Dragons has nothing to do with Nintendo. Except they they collaborated for Super Mario Edition, but that's it.

 

[N. Onymous]

Amazing as always, Tai. Kind of reminds me of a project I'm working on.

Anybody know about Team Fortress 2 here?
A random idea that I just thought up; Take a class from TF2 and match it with the fairy you think best fits them.

I really don't think there's anyone who's been on the internet for more than five minutes who doesn't know about Team Fortress 2.

I've never really compared the fairies to the TF2 classes, mostly because the fairies aren't half-crazy. ^^; I did compare them to the main cast of My Little Pony at one point, though... which seems to have irreversibly colored my perceptions of the characters since then. (Lip is snarky like Twilight, Windy is upbeat and hyperactive like Pinkie, Elias is shy like Fluttershy, etc.)

 

[Deleted member]

I never even though about mixing PdP and TF2, it's just so different from another, The only one I could kinda see working is Thanatos as the Heavy, that's about it. I guess skill wise also Flare as the Pyro, though I can't see her as a deranged psychopath.

But I think a non-violent PdP shooter could be kinda fun. Instead of weapons you'd naturally use magic and every character could have a passive special ability. Windy could jump higher (or double jump), Neris would have better controls in the water compared to the other fairies (like Frog Mario in SMB3) and maybe Elias could walk on water for a short while. I mean, when Luigi can do that in SM64DS, why not a water fairy? And maybe Sherbet wouldn't slip on ice.

Now that doesn't mean I don't want a proper Puzzle league game first, at this point I don't even care about the fairies, it's been too long. The last one was, what, the DSi shop exclusive stripped down version of Puzzle League DS? Which in itself already felt kinda off to me.

Or maybe another game that focuses on forgotten and obscure Nintendo characters. Captain Rainbow is the epitome of wasted potential, with it having ugly, unappealing graphics and being Japan only. I think a properly made game could give said characters a big boost in popularity. Well, maybe not "big", but the exposure certainly couldn't hurt.

Amazing as always, Tai. Kind of reminds me of a project I'm working on.

Thanks, but it's just finishing something I already tried to do ages ago and I'm definitely not satisfied with how the model itself looks. But MK Wii is weird like that so it's the best I could do, given the limitations.

I'm definitely more interested in getting MKDS imports to work. Even though there are far less options (no animations yet, far less replaceable characters with 12 as opposed to 24, way worse graphics), I'm more interested in that, as it's easier to import without having to take the character size into account too much. Maybe I'll use the 2.5 hours left until the Direct starts to read up on that... Also dare I say, it's the better game anyway. MK Wii feels too floaty for me, as if you're constantly driving on the moon.

Also a project of your own? Sounds kinda mysterious, heh.

 

[N. Onymous]

And the first DLC poll character is... Cloud Strife?! Because Smash Bros. really needed a fifth prettyboy swordsman?

This has me more worried than ever for Lip's chances in the DLC poll. I knew they were never high exactly, or even there at all, but this and Sakurai's "fanservice" remark is making me think the remaining downloadable characters will be absolutely no different from the GameFAQs Character Battles, a list populated mostly by hideously overrated characters like Cloud and Master Chief. (And hey - remember when I kept disparaging the fourth game as "Nintendo's Advertising Branch Makes a Fighting Game"? Considering the HD remake of FF7 coming out next year, this really isn't helping their case!)

I think it's time to call it quits...

 

[JaidynReiman]

And the first DLC poll character is... Cloud Strife?! Because Smash Bros. really needed a fifth prettyboy swordsman?

This has me more worried than ever for Lip's chances in the DLC poll. I knew they were never high exactly, or even there at all, but this and Sakurai's "fanservice" remark is making me think the remaining downloadable characters will be absolutely no different from the GameFAQs Character Battles, a list populated mostly by hideously overrated characters like Cloud and Master Chief. (And hey - remember when I kept disparaging the fourth game as "Nintendo's Advertising Branch Makes a Fighting Game"? Considering the HD remake of FF7 coming out next year, this really isn't helping their case!)

I think it's time to call it quits...

Where are you getting that he's a ballot character? They never said he was at all, and in all likelihood, he's not. He wasn't heavily requested at all online. Mostly because most people didn't think he was possible.


No, this is Ryu #2.

 

[N. Onymous]

I'm getting the idea that he's a ballot character from Sakurai's earlier remark that Ryu was put into production before the idea of a Smash DLC ballot was even a thing and that all DLC newcomers after him would be fanservice.

...when are we going to get our fanservice? DLC is just getting our hopes up for nothing. Even a new game is too much to ask... and the only other acknowledgement that we're going to get of the series through Smash Bros. - I mean, hell, the only acknowledgement we're going to get of the series bottom-line - is faceless representation through "that item from Tetris Attack." I'm getting really sick of being left out in the cold like this. I can't take it anymore.

 

[AEMehr]

I say Square Enix caught a deal with Nintendo. It makes too much sense/

 

[N. Onymous]

They've "had a deal with Nintendo" for a while now. Nintendo localized a few of the Dragon Quest and Bravely Default for them, I think.

 

[N. Onymous]

I really do think we should all band together and do something to let Nintendo know that we know about Panel de Pon over here - that we care about it. That we miss it, and want to see it again. That it has a far more broad appeal than anyone on the board thinks it does.

I don't really have the leadership skills necessary to see a group project like that through, but I can guarantee that if Nintendo sees that there are people worldwide who care about the fairy characters and want them to make a comeback, they might rethink their position. It's happened before with the Mother series.

What's important is that we actually follow through with this, though. I've brought up the idea of a fan movement to get Nintendo's attention multiple times before and nothing has ever come of them. For a company to produce for a market, that market must first be proven to exist. I can't stress this enough - we need to make this movement happen if we want to revive this franchise.

 

[PsychoJosh]

It's a bit of a hard sell.

One way to think of it is that Nintendo is adding in super A-lister guest characters like Ryu and Cloud of their own volition so that they're not counted towards the ballot choices, so that lesser known characters are the ones decided by the ballot.

 

[N. Onymous]

I'd have an easier time believing that if Sakurai hadn't come out and said that Ryu was worked on and finished before the DLC poll was ever decided on, and that the remaining newcomers would be fanservice. Considering that and the fact that this may be the last Smash Bros. game, yeah, I'm not hopeful.

 

[PsychoJosh]

The thing you don't seem to realize is that characters take MONTHS to develop, they can't just decide on a character and stage and finish it in a week. Cloud has obviously been in the works for a very long time, so he was decided on long before the ballot was finished.

Also, this is the final Smash Bros. game according to who? What's substantiating this rumor? I've never heard it mentioned anywhere before you did. Just sounds to me like you're paranoid without a reason. Nintendo has a new system in the works and it's a certainty that there's going to be a new Smash for that one as well.

 

[N. Onymous]

Sakurai pushed himself so hard trying to make this one that he actually physically injured himself. It's hard to believe anyone would want to make another game after that, at least for a while. Although A. he made a comment along the lines of "they'll probably drag me back for another one anyway" and B. he always makes each game like it's the last.

-----

If there's anyone who knows how to use Zelda Classic and is interested in helping me out with a relevant project, PM me!

 

[PsychoJosh]

Sakurai pushed himself so hard trying to make this one that he actually physically injured himself. It's hard to believe anyone would want to make another game after that, at least for a while. Although A. he made a comment along the lines of "they'll probably drag me back for another one anyway" and B. he always makes each game like it's the last.

So what? He's just describing the average development grind of making games. People at EA put in 80 hour work weeks during crunch time before a game goes gold. It's not any different for someone of his stature. Game development is a monumental task.

Sakurai's been making games for longer than most people on this board have been alive, I doubt he plans to stop any time soon, if anything he's going to redouble his efforts on the next Smash Bros. because he is crazy passionate about these games. None of these big name career devs quit just because they stub their toe. Hideo Kojima is another example of a guy who works crazy hard on games and makes each Metal Gear Solid game as if it were the last. That doesn't actually mean it will be the last.

 

[N. Onymous]

You make a good point. I never said it was definitely the last Smash Bros. game, either - just that it "may be". Safe to assume it is unless it's not, otherwise you end up in my situation... heheh.

I'm a little depressed because I have so many ideas for fan woks I could make to show all of the love and happiness Panel de Pon has brought me and how much it means to me, but I just don't have the raw talent or, in some cases, the attention span to see any of it through. My hard drive is littered with half-finished artwork, at least one game, several ROM hacks, and I really do want to finish all of them, but I know tomorrow I'll find something else I want to do to pay tribute to the fairies and I'll just set them back down... It's a vicious cycle. An awful feeling, really.

 

[N. Onymous]

I'm curious. Multiple times before I've tried to rally together the people in this thread to try and rally together in a movement to let people know about this series and the fairy characters, but every time I do, nothing happens. Everyone just sits around and does nothing. I get one or two other followers at best. It happened with #Lip for Mario Kart 8 (admittedly, probably a lost cause to begin with), it happened with #Lip for SSB4 DLC/#Pop the Vote, and it's happening now with me advocating - and stressing the importance of - a movement to let the world know how much we love and miss the series.

Pardon me if this seems a bit rude, but sometimes it seems to me like you all are happy with the state of the franchise right now. Like you somehow enjoy being ignored by everyone around us while Nintendo continues to sit on the rights to the franchise. That general sense of apathy/complacency bothers me, and I wish it would change.

I'd love to see the fairy fandom expand, and I know you guys would too, but we need to work together if we want that to happen. None of us can do it alone.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Listen, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment by expecting huge things out of something you have next to no control over. What exactly do you expect us to do? Stand in front of a mall firing guns wildly in the air while screaming at everyone to vote for Lip, like Homer Simpson? We can tell people to vote for Lip or about the game she's from but there's only so much that's in our hands, and getting people interested isn't one of them. There comes a point where it's beyond our control. We can't just cut people's heads open and tweak their brains so that they're suddenly interested in the franchise.

I love Lip and I love Panel de Pon, really I do, but with that love comes the acceptance that Lip is simply an unknown character. Don't expect the world to move for her, just keep supporting her in your own way, drop those coins down the well and maybe one day our wishes will be heard.

It's not the end of the world if Lip doesn't get in, and considering her obscurity it's understandable as to why. We just have to press on and hope the opportunity arises again to support her in the future. There's lots of fan favorite characters that won't be getting in the game, and we share in their disappointment. It's not a huge deal.

 

[N. Onymous]

This isn't about Smash Bros. anymore. All I want is for Panel de Pon to reach as broad an audience as possible. It's got tons of appeal and if we work together, I'm sure we can get a ton of people into the fanbase. That's the first step to getting the series back on its feet.

We can't force people to like PDP, that's true, but we can at least tell as many people as we can and hope. Again, it's our best shot at a revival.

 

[CH4F]

Also, if it can help the whole puzzle genre to be appealing, that'll be cool.
We need a new PDP game, with a better time-out or garbage system. Now, playing the same ol' PPL isn't appealing and sometimes let the players do really long rounds.

 

[N. Onymous]

It doesn't even have to be a puzzle game, really. I'd be happy just to see Lip and friends again. I'd be especially pleased if it was an RPG spinoff. (Hey, Kid Icarus underwent a major gameplay shift between games - there's no rule saying Panel de Pon can't too.) As I've said many times before, a Panel de Pon RPG would really tickle my fancy with all of the room for character development and world-building that comes with the territory. The fairies have serious potential to become well-rounded, fleshed-out, loveable characters, and an RPG or something else with plenty of dialogue would be the perfect opportunity to prove as much.