Public Signs Of Affection On School Grounds

[|RK|]

Yes it does, and I'm not the only one that sees it this way. Lots of people don't want to see that ****. There is plenty of time for this after school, and people should have the consideration to wait until this time to display their affection. More importantly, it's going to happen no matter what the rule is, but the school's administration should undoubtedly prohibit PDA so that the occurrence of such instances will be minmized. Schools have goals, and activities that disturb the learning process makes it harder for these goals to be reached.

So just because you see something, that makes it your business? No. Besides, who said it was extreme affection? Because that's what you're making it seem like. Also, your opinion on this seems like you're against everything non-academic at schools. Other things can distract further than a couple that you are not part of. I suppose people don't play around in schools? Or talk about random things during lunch? Even the best schools have these distractions, yet they still meet their goals.

High School and most colleges do not simulate the environment experienced in the real world whatsoever, nor do many of them attempt to do so. However, school should illustrate that there is a time for work (in this case, school time) and a time for leisure (in this case, after school), just like in the real world.

Really? I don't know WHERE you've been, but most high schools and colleges do indeed attempt to simulate a more real world environment. Time for leisure? That's called lunch, in-between periods, classes where the teacher gives you free time, etc. Before school and after school? Won't they still be in the building anyways? And if not, what if they live far from each other and they have extracurricular activities after school? Then they barely see each other.

Adults are prohibited from kissing or being clingy at work for good reason. PDA doesn't have to 'throw someone off for the rest of the day' to be a distraction, either. It just gives students more non-educational material to think about and gossip over.

Because students don't talk about their lives, think about their lives, and gossip about others anyways? Really, are you trying to control thoughts now? Something as minor as an established couple kissing/hugging doesn't do anything. Except if you know the person and even then, it's not even a subject stayed on for more than 5 seconds before people start talking about sex. >_> The subject isn't even brought up as it becomes regular (kissing/hugging, I mean).

Everyone is different. I'm sure there is something that would hinder your ability to focus in school, but let's say that you're just very special and can focus under any conditions. There are many people who cannot, and to me this is understandable.

Yeah, well most people in my school, which has the most language courses in the county and is oft described as the most diverse (so you know there's all types of people), can focus under these conditions.

Just because you see a couple kissing and are distracted enough to think about it later in the day or bring it up in conversation during school hours doesn't mean you are immature or that you have some kind of disorder. It's a distraction that makes learning more difficult for students (as a whole).

See above. Especially since I wasn't referring to a conversation or anything, but school time, which seems to be the focal point of your argument.

What limitations? Where would you draw the line, and how? You must be able to put this on paper and it's meaning must be perfectly clear to anyone who reads it. If there is any gray area the rule fails.

"No extreme displays of public affection" seems to work just fine. If the students in question are getting all hot and sexual, then obviously that's extreme. Or just replace "extreme" with "sexual".

The husband and wife are kissing on their own time. Students can kiss all they want before school, and after school for that matter.

The students probably don't live together, and you don't know how far they are from each other or what they have to do. It's the effect that brightens up the day that is similar.

Teachers do. Students aren't in school to make out, and it is the teachers' duty to discourage any activities that obviously have nothing to do with education. If you let students have an inch, eventually they'll take a yard.

So? Students aren't in school to talk either, or to do ANYTHING not educational. Minor displays of affection should be beneath teachers's concern. In my school, teachers do discourage these activities, and we had an article in the school paper arguing against that. Even so, couples can still hug, hold hands, or whatever. The only thing not permitted is anything too sexual, and kissing.

Also, slippery slope fallacy.

Sorry, but this example is terrible. Drugs often hurt the friends and families of individuals who abuse them. They are also known to do a number on an individual's ambition and intelligence, as well as hinder one's coordination and decision making abilities (which often leads to accidents and injury). Hopefully you aren't referring to getting high before or during school.

OK, maybe it was a bad example, but it is similar without the negative effects.

 

[-ACE-]

You are looking at this the wrong way, in my opinion. This reminds me of the classic scenario where girls that dress really skimpy complain about the unpleasant comments that float their way. They say things like 'I should be able to dress however I want' and 'people don't have the right to say those things to me'. They are correct, but the quickest and possibly the most effective way for them to nullify the situation is to quit dressing like a prostitute in training.

The point is, sure students should be able to kiss in the hallway or even during class. Sure, other students should have the ability to see such activities and not be distracted (like I can). But we don't live in a perfect world. During some exams, students are not allowed to send text messages. Why? because they could easily be cheating. Truth is, there is nothing wrong with sending a text like 'How was your day?' during an exam, but that doesn't matter; some people will break the rule (just as some people will get distracted by PDA) and it will be unfair to the rest of the students. When it comes to education, rules have to be instated that deliver the closest thing to a guarantee of effectiveness as possible.

Also, that wasn't an example of a slippery slope fallacy earlier. That's a very old saying (give someone an inch they'll take a yard), and it's vague I'll admit but has shown to be true countless times.

Edit; The rule you suggested, "No extreme displays of public affection" and "No sexual displays of public affection" would both be ineffective imo, with the former being to vague and the later being too lenient. I'm not saying I could come up with a rule that allowed kissing but didn't allow making out; it's too hard imo. I'd just say no kissing, that's what after school is for.

 

[|RK|]

Well kissing during class wasn't what I was suggesting, or arguing for. Besides, your example with the text messages and dressing aren't at all similar to what I'm arguing for. What could really be taken out of a hug or quick kiss that is similar to insinuated cheating or slutty dressing? A hug or kiss is harmless. The examples you gave don't relate well.

Oh, and as for the slippery slope thing, just because it's an old saying doesn't make it not slippery slope. You're insinuating that one "degeneration" (IYO) in rules will lead to worse consequences and it slides downhill.

 

[Dorsey]

Joker I can't help but notice that you're missing Ace's main point. You say that his examples aren't relevant to what you're saying, ok, but even if that's true Ace's main point doesn't seem to need those examples as support anyways.

The point is, sure students should be able to kiss in the hallway or even during class. Sure, other students should have the ability to see such activities and not be distracted (like I can). But we don't live in a perfect world. During some exams, students are not allowed to send text messages. Why? because they could easily be cheating. Truth is, there is nothing wrong with sending a text like 'How was your day?' during an exam, but that doesn't matter; some people will break the rule (just as some people will get distracted by PDA) and it will be unfair to the rest of the students. When it comes to education, rules have to be instated that deliver the closest thing to a guarantee of effectiveness as possible.

He seems to make a valid point, and it was never refuted. I only see attempts to discredit his examples... Anyway, I wholeheartedly agree with Ace; schools should radiate excellence and professionalism.

A rule allowing kissing in school would undoubtedly be exploited by some. Students go to school to learn. Teachers and principal's are paid to enable this, and also paid to maintain professionalism, academic integrity, and a scholastic atmosphere. Yeah, it may seem slightly unfair to you but you have to look at it from other perspectives aside from the typical person in high school whom this rule would affect negatively. In the long run, the decision to say 'no kissing' will give the school a better image, which makes the students look better as well as the teachers and the principal. Not to mention that their paychecks reflect all of this. Additionally, some people simply do not want to see people kiss at school. Allowing it would be completely unfair to them. Saying that they should just 'mind their own business' lacks both evidence and reason. That carries the same weight as me saying solely 'Just save the kissing for before and after school and there will be no problem' (although both statements are true, it doesn't prove anything in regard to the debate..) Just because a suggested resolution is easy doesn't mean that it's right, or proper.

 

[-ACE-]

Well kissing during class wasn't what I was suggesting, or arguing for.

I never claimed that whatsoever. I merely stated that in a world free of distraction this should also be allowed, just to illustrate that in theory, I actually agree with you.

Besides, your example with the text messages and dressing aren't at all similar to what I'm arguing for.

I am not arguing against you directly. I am trying to help you understand this situation from a different point of view.

What could really be taken out of a hug or quick kiss that is similar to insinuated cheating or slutty dressing?

You are looking at it the wrong way. Try to look at the analogy itself and not the specifics. I layed it out rather simply imo.

A hug or kiss is harmless. The examples you gave don't relate well.

This is your opinion. And again, you're not looking at the example correctly. The goal is undisturbed education/learning, and (in this situation) one most look for the closest and most effective method of ensuring this exists. Why? Because in my opinion, education is very, very important.

Oh, and as for the slippery slope thing, just because it's an old saying doesn't make it not slippery slope. You're insinuating that one "degeneration" (IYO) in rules will lead to worse consequences and it slides downhill.

No, it does not slide downhill. It it only goes to a point. I know examples aren't seeming to work with you but here's another one: Speed Limit. Speeding laws are essentially the same everywhere in the United States, however, some places are much more strict than others (regarding enforcement/frequency of citations issued). The town of Emporia, for example, is a notorious "speed trap" in the state of Virginia. Here, the police do not let people have the extra "inch" I was referring to earlier (this is similar to not allowing kissing on school grounds). As a result, the amount of people who speed in that town has drastically decreased (source). In contrast, areas that are notorious for being more lenient to speeding see a large number of people speeding. This is not a coincidence. However, people do not continue to speed worse and worse. It only goes so far until they tone it down for a number of reasons (similar to why students enrolled in schools that allow kissing in the hallway do not engage in sexual activity on school grounds, it only goes so far). If kissing is allowed, you will encounter more people having passionate make out sessions than if kissing is not allowed and strictly enforced. This is not a fallacy.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

RK, Smoke and Smash, the point is, school isn't the place for that.

School is not the place to make out with your couple, or to be affectionate. You go to school to learn. If you want to be with your partner, do so on a day of no school, or before or after school.

Ace makes a valuable point: you need to maintain an atmosphere that facilitates learning. If there are people passionately making out in class, then this does not facilitate learning. It has been duly noted that you could ignore them, but because you can does not mean that everyone can. It may distract them from their learnings, and no matter if it is in a way that they enjoy it or not, the point is that they are being distracted from learning.

As for some people's arguement that "highschool should be the best time of your life" or "kids will be kids"(the first not neccessarily mentioned in this thread): No, highschool should not be the best time of your life. Nor middle school or college, or any instructional time period in your life. You are not at school to have fun; no one ever said that you were. If you pass your highschool and college days making out with your partner and not paying as much attention to your studies as you should, then the rest of your life will be miserable. Think about it: you don't get a good education because of being affectionate all the time, and then that's it. You won't get a good job. You won't be able to live a luxurious life that you want, that you could've had had you not wasted your time being affectionate in class. Even worse, if you get married, then how will you support your spouse or possible children?
And the arguement "kids will be kids": yes, granted, kids will be kids. I am only fifteen years old myself. But when do you stop being a kid? When it's too late? When you are a grown adult of twenty years? I myself know this point, it's been duly noted. Kids need to start maturing before they become adults. They need to learn values that will help them in life. They will certainly not learn them by kissing their patrner.

The point is, school is not the place for affection. You need to recognize the line between your scholastic life and your romantic life.

 

[|RK|]

I never claimed that whatsoever. I merely stated that in a world free of distraction this should also be allowed, just to illustrate that in theory, I actually agree with you.

Oh.

I am not arguing against you directly. I am trying to help you understand this situation from a different point of view.

Oh.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Try to look at the analogy itself and not the specifics. I layed it out rather simply imo.

Ah, sorry.

This is your opinion. And again, you're not looking at the example correctly. The goal is undisturbed education/learning, and (in this situation) one most look for the closest and most effective method of ensuring this exists. Why? Because in my opinion, education is very, very important.

Education is important in my opinion as well. Class isn't the place for that, yes, but in school in general? Harmless. That is a fact.

No, it does not slide downhill. It it only goes to a point. I know examples aren't seeming to work with you but here's another one: Speed Limit. Speeding laws are essentially the same everywhere in the United States, however, some places are much more strict than others (regarding enforcement/frequency of citations issued). The town of Emporia, for example, is a notorious "speed trap" in the state of Virginia. Here, the police do not let people have the extra "inch" I was referring to earlier (this is similar to not allowing kissing on school grounds). As a result, the amount of people who speed in that town has drastically decreased (source). In contrast, areas that are notorious for being more lenient to speeding see a large number of people speeding. This is not a coincidence. However, people do not continue to speed worse and worse. It only goes so far until they tone it down for a number of reasons (similar to why students enrolled in schools that allow kissing in the hallway do not engage in sexual activity on school grounds, it only goes so far). If kissing is allowed, you will encounter more people having passionate make out sessions than if kissing is not allowed and strictly enforced. This is not a fallacy.

Ok, that makes sense.

T.R.D.S., no one said anything about in class.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

T.R.D.S., no one said anything about in class.

The point is, school is not the place for affection. You need to recognize the line between your scholastic life and your romantic life.

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[Sucumbio]

Having been a teacher I can tell you that school property is NOT the place for PDA.

However, we must also remember that kids ages 6th grade on start to really begin their long journeys into adulthood, and with that comes a necessary understanding of how these changes in physiology and mentality affect their day-to-day lives. This leads to there being levels of "PDA" that are absolutely not permitted and some that are frowned upon, and some that are dismissed. Also one must consider the act with the age.

Our standard was as follows: (this is for high school age, before that it's generally considered a no no regardless)

Making out: no
Feeling up, groping sensually: no
Hugging: ok if not also including the first two, must be brief
Kissing: ok if not involving the first three (a peck on the cheek is ok, lips, your discretion) must be brief.
Holding Hands: ok
Displaying of "hickies": no

Now these were standards to go by when having to make a decision on it, not published for the kids to read and thereby abide by (or live up to or break past as many kids like to do in an effort to rebel.)

The published was plain and simple: there will be no public displays of affection permitted on school property either before, during or after normal school hours.

Period. SO if a teacher caught someone in a PDA they then had to consider their own judgement call on what to do, either let it go, break it up, etc. Me, I always stuck to the traditional, but I never punished people for it, because I understood it's natural, I was a kid once too. Instead I'd just simply say "hey you 2 knock it off" and loud enough everyone there not them would giggle a bit and they'd be embarrassed and not do it again. I never had the misfortune of catching a couple having sex. I did however have sex myself when I was in HS on HS property, lol! And was REAL lucky we didn't get caught, cause in our school THAT was an immediate 3 day suspension.

my 2 cents.