Project M Ultimate Discussion

[zabimaru1000]

There is no "smash community"

There is a melee community and an ultimate community. Obviously a lot of ultimate players don't even play melee so there's no point in telling them to get over melee.

And melee players obviously won't get over melee. So it's kind of a wasteful thing to say

 

[LunchmanJ]

So your logic towards getting rid of "Flavor of the week Fire Emblem" characters is to get rid of the two Fire Emblem fighters who are the most unique from Marth, his clones, and his semi-clones? That's already a turn off for whatever Project M type mod you want to be developed.

You could cut Lucina and Chrom without most people caring because Marth and Roy are still fighters in your supposed Project M type mod, the two FE Awakening sword fighters were echo fighters of them, and there is still a third fighter in Smash Ultimate from FE Awakening. Cutting Robin and Corrin would truly reduce Fire Emblem to the anime sword fighter style franchise most people despise it for being.

Isn't everything a turn off for people like you?

 

[Venclaire]

My question is, why cut anyone? Unless this is supposed to be like, your own vision of smash, then go right ahead.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Isn't everything a turn off for people like you?

I tried to write something constructive, and you chose to dismiss it with a comment that stereotypes an insult on people who disagree with you? That's just a childish way to try and rebuttal someone else's argument at best.

Don't even bother replying to this. Anything you say will be ignored. I'm done here.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

My question is, why cut anyone?

Exactly, that's kind of the point of Ultimate.

 

[Opossum]

Any mod that goes out of its way to cut characters isn't worth the time of day, really.

 

[LunchmanJ]

Any mod that goes out of its way to cut characters isn't worth the time of day, really.

I took off the cut characters now that I think about it, but you guys need to be more ballsy. If you don't make design decisions, you aren't making a game or a vision. Just saying.

 

[Opossum]

I took off the cut characters now that I think about it, but you guys need to be more ballsy. If you don't make design decisions, you aren't making a game or a vision. Just saying.

I mean, are you even really making a game if you're just altering someone else's work?

 

[Necro'lic]

I took off the cut characters now that I think about it, but you guys need to be more ballsy. If you don't make design decisions, you aren't making a game or a vision. Just saying.

Like I already said, rework characters you feel are superfluous by being semi-clones or echoes or whatever else.

 

[LunchmanJ]

Like I already said, rework characters you feel are superfluous by being semi-clones or echoes or whatever else.

Oh no, I said that I would no longer cut characters.

I mean, are you even really making a game if you're just altering someone else's work?

Yes, you are.

 

[UserKev]

Oh no, I said that I would no longer cut characters.

Yes, you are.

Those posts are ridiculous. Honestly, why wouldn't you experiment with characters that has itching move set potential and legitimately wanted anyway? Eh. Those posts bring me back to the whole "Brand Loyalty" trope.

 

[Kirbeh]

Those posts are ridiculous. Honestly, why wouldn't you experiment with characters that has itching move set potential and legitimately wanted anyway? Eh. Those posts bring me back to the whole "Brand Loyalty" trope.

Too much effort/Lack of care.

Re-balancing a 70+ roster is quite the daunting task, and while I disagree with the cuts and don't share the OPs opinions on characters, a pet project mod of their own design doesn't have to include everything. If their own vision lacks "x" character, then so be it, it's their mod to craft. I dislike the idea personally and think it greatly reduces the mod's potential and appeal, but in that case it's just not for me.

iirc there's a Brawl mod, (called Melee 2 I think) that more or less does something similar. It makes the game more like Melee which includes cutting several characters, though it that case, it was more of a thematic choice of taking Melee and broadening the roster by keeping Brawl newcomers that were actually around during that era. More of "What if Melee had more characters" while this is "What if Ultimate was Melee/Everyone Isn't Here"

 

[LunchmanJ]

Those posts are ridiculous. Honestly, why wouldn't you experiment with characters that has itching move set potential and legitimately wanted anyway? Eh. Those posts bring me back to the whole "Brand Loyalty" trope.

I'm confused. I already said all characters "would be here". I changed my mind.

 

[LunchmanJ]

PS This thread isn't just for dissing me, you can also suggest whatever you actually do want. Even if you don't want Project Ultimate, what is an alternative for you?

 

[Necro'lic]

I just want a mod that, if it is focused on competitive, stops trying to emulate Melee so closely. It is not a perfect game. It's not even a perfect competitive game, far from it. Don't let its longevity blind you of its flaws. Actually think about how designing a competitive game would work instead of trying to get some sort of competitive insight from a game that was never designed for competitive play.

 

[LunchmanJ]

I just want a mod that, if it is focused on competitive, stops trying to emulate Melee so closely. It is not a perfect game. It's not even a perfect competitive game, far from it. Don't let its longevity blind you of its flaws. Actually think about how designing a competitive game would work instead of trying to get some sort of competitive insight from a game that was never designed for competitive play.

Well, I only thought that it should be heavily based on Melee because it is easier. You can make some moderate changes, and I'd be fine.

 

[Aurane]

I mean, are you even really making a game if you're just altering someone else's work?

Valve: Am I a joke to you?

 

[Opossum]

Valve: Am I a joke to you?

Pssh, everyone knows Valve doesn't make games anymore.

 

[ShadowTheHedgehogZ]

I think that would be pretty cool something likes this is in development and it's called Project NX

 

[MrGameguycolor]

I just want a mod that, if it is focused on competitive, stops trying to emulate Melee so closely. It is not a perfect game. It's not even a perfect competitive game, far from it. Don't let its longevity blind you of its flaws. Actually think about how designing a competitive game would work instead of trying to get some sort of competitive insight from a game that was never designed for competitive play.

This.

L LunchmanJ
Melee is a fun and unique fast pace game that's both fun to play and watch.
But it is pretty outdated compared to the future titles. (I think Brawl aged better then Melee but not by much)
Many of it's mechanics and design choices often functioned as polarizing and super unbalanced...

Such as Edge-hogging invaliding certain recovery's, infinite chain grabs, L-Canceling, air dodging putting you into helpless fall, getting stuck under stages like Battlefield while recovering (why 4XM bring that back) and tons of other stuff that were fixed or heavily readjusted to work better in the later games.

 

[Necro'lic]

Well, I only thought that it should be heavily based on Melee because it is easier. You can make some moderate changes, and I'd be fine.

I already showed what I would do with a mod of Ultimate, at least in terms of general mechanics. They definitely aren't moderate changes, but notice how I actually talked about my thought process. Meanwhile, the best I see when it comes to emulating Melee always seems to either boil down to "it was from Melee, and Melee is still relevant after 18 years, so obviously this is a good mechanic" or other horrible apologetics for specific terrible things like L-Cancelling somehow "emphasizing skill" as if there is no other way to do that, and three quarters of the cast being overshadowed heavily by the other quarter as somehow being better than all of the cast being relatively balanced, which... I really don't need to go much further at how pathetic that idea is.

But then you got actually good reasons cited to you for actually good Melee things like wavedashing and wavelanding off platforms and DI, and people still don't see that these actually good examples should be separated as far as possible from those other horrible parts of Melee.