Project M Social Thread Gold

[DMG]

I hate L cancelling, so I just mash Z instead

TAKE THAT SAKURAI!

(Btw yes you can L cancel with Z. You can spam the cancel too and basically never mess it up)

 

[Lizalfos]

what? it was terrible in melee ;x it was just as long as vbrawl's, but didn't have the vacuum windbox.

pm's is the best iteration, just by the fact that it's a usable speed.

Can P:M's kill on small stages and does it have an explosion effect? If the answer is no, you are wrong.

Spam Z to fight the man.

 

[CORY]

oh, it can kill on small stages.

sadly, doesn't explode, but it does give him a second thunder stomp.

and it doesn't take 15 minutes to start up.

 

[Bazkip]

It's like if I turned on manual reloading in an FPS where auto-reload is an in-game option (and the reload animation can be canceled by firing, like in TF2). I don't gain any depth to the game, I just have to periodically press a button.

I actually turned that off in TF2, I found the reload animations constantly starting up to be distracting

 

[DMG]

Manual reload is also useful for when you want to reload before emptying your entire clip.

 

[Bazkip]

Manual reload is also useful for when you want to reload before emptying your entire clip.

TF2 auto-reload reloads anytime your mag isn't full

 

[Comeback Kid]

It blocks your view of what's going on all the time with the weapon model though, so that's a downside.

 

[Empyrean]

I don't really have an opinion on l-cancelling, but the "moving your shield to mess up the timing" argument is really reaching. How many times has that actually happened in high-level play?

 

[SpiderMad]

Again, literally only possible mindgame that makes any sense, and I have a hard time thinking of characters or attacks that fit this bill.

Sheik and Peach for Melee, Ryoko has some videos.

the interplay to lcancelling was better in melee, since you had light shielding and (better?) shield angling, to try and mess with timings, along with dodges/etc... to do so, as well.

in pm, the best thing about lcancel interplay would be hitting them while they're doing an aerial, to try and make them miss a tech or something : / (also in melee, but there were more useful interplays to try and force mistakes).

You have more windboxes in PM, and moving platforms, and slopes/uneven ground.

Mango said he feels like he never misses L-cancels in PM though. I think the game being generally more controllable is what he was getting at, so I see that as a good thing.

He also mentions in Analysis videos about how there's hard techs to hit, and hard L-cancels to hit.

In PM, there should def. be an option to have it auto. My casual friend doesn't have time to learn everything, so right now he doesn't aerial much partly because of missed L-cancels.

We also def. need an unlimited shield option, I was trying to teach someone stuff and that would have been helpful (otherwise I'll use 20XX hack and try to teach him the stuff through Melee).

Sweet I managed to get a game of Dota 1 finally going! Now to go AFK in it like good'ol times, also gotta find my DotaKeys program to make items trigger on Mouse scroll Up/Down and space bar and such. I also besides Dota keys control group my hero, courier, and beacon (to fortify towers), to control group Keyboard Numbers 2, 1, 3.

I use to play years ago, and one bug they had in a version when I think Skewer for Magus came out and was like if you transported to a tower and shift+clicked skewer, you would transport there and Skewer right away and run all the way back to the Fountain (your location); so if you hit the location right to gett'em you broughtem to the fountain to die. Much fun, surprise, and rage was had: wish I had the replays but I think they're long gone though you can imagine with this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYelmyxK93w

The days of getting other custom games (publicly) to go are def. nigh though (and have been for years now). I use to make my own and such besides enjoying all the vast awesome custom games out there, especially awesome in the days my friends use to play.

 

[Player -0]

It blocks your view of what's going on all the time with the weapon model though, so that's a downside.

You can turn models off.

The only thing that it would be good for is soda popper and FaN. And those are negligible because you're scout.

 

[Bazkip]

You can turn models off.

The only thing that it would be good for is soda popper and FaN. And those are negligible because you're scout.

There's tons of quality weapon mods for TF2, you'd be missing out on so much with models off

 

[Bleck]

The only meaningful difference that the 'rage mode' mechanic puts into the game is that big fatties are better, which I think we can generally agree is rather deserved, at this point.

Also, **** L-canceling.

 

[Rᴏb]

MGSV stream has started.

I recently started playing MGS2 and I'm enjoying the **** out of it. I'm pretty excited to play 3 though considering how much it's praised compared to 2, even though 2 has been pretty fun so far.

 

[1FD]

I don't really have an opinion on l-cancelling, but the "moving your shield to mess up the timing" argument is really reaching. How many times has that actually happened in high-level play?

Every time I see this topic I remember smashmods posts about it and the 1 point Bamesy brought up.
He won a set against ppmd because pp messed up an L cancel with just what you described.

It's definitely a stretch for 'why L cancelling should exist' but it's still there.
Oh also **** L cancelling though

Oh also CAPE
Cape > L cancelling

 

[SpiderMad]

Oh yeah Mario's cape? I'm surprised there's not more moves in Brawl/Smash 4 that have item'like effects; things like spawning a temporary platform or screwing/limiting your opponents controls or turning invisible were all kept by Sakurai in good faith to remain as items.
And I'm guessing Bamesy beat PPMD in Melee Luigi vs Falco? The more I've been studying that MU recently people like Mango switch to Fox after Abate was taking games off his Falco and such, along with Eddie Mexico and all, I need to see what they think the MU ratio is.

I like how Sheik's needles act as a second long lasting hittable object(s) on the ground that can induce hitlag and extend recoveries and hitbox timings, and now I miss Shy guys in PM Yoshis.

And aside from Pokemon (and some other character?) in Brawl, we've never dealt with hitbox effects doing anything other than being aesthetic. Where like Ivy in Brawl I think took extra damage from fire effects or something. I need a refresher on the hitbox types listed in PSA: there's dark (Ganon fair), fire (Charizard fair), maybe water?

Also never make your W7 install partition only 37gigs

 

[9bit]

Also never make your W7 install partition only 37gigs

oh god gross

 

[Alakaslam]

Hey

We need a new star fox game.

Like a real star fox game, the type where we remake the SNES game again.

And this time include that bawss weather change level

http://youtu.be/4P4IsBzMspE

This one

 

[Spiffykins]

I don't really have an opinion on l-cancelling, but the "moving your shield to mess up the timing" argument is really reaching. How many times has that actually happened in high-level play?

Angling your shield is very important in Melee for other reasons, but that isn't really one of them. Shield angling unfortunately is less of a factor in PM.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

I feel like light shielding is a really underused mechanic in melee, and the pmdt should definitely bring it back if it's feasible. It would make the Marth killer so much easier in PM.

 

[DMG]

No. Give poor Marth a break, he's ALREADY low tier.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

Screw Marth. Roy's the cool kids on the block now

 

[Exodo]

Roys Our Boy

 

[standardtoaster]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

RIP hbox

 

[Deleted member]

Same level of stupidity
But L-canceling brings litterally nothing of value to a game other than technical difficulty, so I guess its "better" but I dont know if its good for the game or not.

being able to halve your standard landing lag is invaluable and opens up the game to really being played. if you dont like l canceling, go back and play the game without it so you can remember what ****** mode feels like. l cancel and wavedashing MAKE this game .

 

[OSCA MIKE]

You can turn models off.

The only thing that it would be good for is soda popper and FaN. And those are negligible because you're scout.

This wouldn't even be a problem if they implemented viewmodel transparency.

I don't like turning off the viewmodels, but seriously they block off a such a large chunk of the area in front of me (don't even get me started on the revolvers) to the point where its less distracting having them off. Except for melee, melee is fine.

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

I will never not use Villager's side-taunt after every kill.

 

[shairn]

being able to halve your standard landing lag is invaluable and opens up the game to really being played. if you dont like l canceling, go back and play the game without it so you can remember what ****** mode feels like. l cancel and wavedashing MAKE this game .

The idea is that, if you remove L-canceling, you also halve all landing lag.

 

[GaretHax]

I don't really have an opinion on l-cancelling, but the "moving your shield to mess up the timing" argument is really reaching. How many times has that actually happened in high-level play?

Depends on who is playing, people used to try to break spacie pressure via light-hard shield switching and funky angles all the time in older meta's, these days it seems to be better to just disengage asap. Personally I try to mess people up with shield angles and shield DI even in PM, and have still found it to be surprisingly effective. I also do wonky things like purposefully miss L-cancels with specific spacing to try to bait people in, which with PM's omwtfbbqyoudidntflashnoob mechanic can lead to a few free punishes off moves that end deceptively quickly.

 

[Empyrean]

Depends on who is playing, people used to try to break spacie pressure via light-hard shield switching and funky angles all the time in older meta's, these days it seems to be better to just disengage asap. Personally I try to mess people up with shield angles and shield DI even in PM, and have still found it to be surprisingly effective. I also do wonky things like purposefully miss L-cancels with specific spacing to try to bait people in, which with PM's omwtfbbqyoudidntflashnoob mechanic can lead to a few free punishes off moves that end deceptively quickly.

Point is, it's not something reliable to do when your shield is being pressured like crazy. It CAN work, but betting everything on it is not exactly an optimal strat.

 

[GaretHax]

Point is, it's not something reliable to do when your shield is being pressured like crazy. It CAN work, but betting everything on it is not exactly an optimal strat.

Depends on the character, most people disengage or outright punish pressure, against Falco you can try to force a late landing or fastfall on his pillar after hitting the top of your shield, which, regardless of a missed l-cancel can lead to a punish. It isn't guaranteed and relies on the opponent making a mistake, but it allows you to influence the process nonetheless. Micro-exchanges determine the outcome of high-level games more often than macro, so it doesn't need to be an optimal strategy, it's just another mix-up in a metaphorical ocean of options.

 

[Plum]

i take my GCC to the bathroom

I pooped while playing the Smash demo.
Tears of joy that this is now possible were shed by all of mankind.

 

[trash?]

so imagine if someone saw brawl- and decided "you know what, that should be an official part of our fighting game"

that is what happened. ken has juri fireballs. the world is beautiful

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

being able to halve your standard landing lag is invaluable and opens up the game to really being played. if you dont like l canceling, go back and play the game without it so you can remember what ****** mode feels like. l cancel and wavedashing MAKE this game .

Umbreon, don't be dumb about L-canelling.

When I play Lucas I have multiple options in front of me with DJC which varies what I can do and how my opponent has to defend themselves. When I jump and do an attack a lot of things can be different:
If I DJC at all
What aerial I do
If I choose to fast fall

In this scenario my opponent will have to defend against one of these, the decision making is what makes interaction, and interaction is the foundation of competition, in my opinion. One thing, though, that I'll have to do and my opponent will know is that I'll L-Cancel, all that can happen here is if I **** up or not (which really shouldn't happen at high level play, not saying it doesn't, because it does, but still.) I have to L-Cancel and it doesn't add anything to what my opponent chooses to do (again, unless I **** up) or my options. It's just another button to push.

In this whole argument it is assumed that aerial landing lag is cut on its own (automatic) and honestly, removing L-canelling with that as it's replacement doesn't remove an important or necessary part of the game's technicality.

This convo always gets played out but I felt like giving my opinion on it
One more time

Also Omega mode is silly

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

No. Give poor Marth a break, he's ALREADY low tier.

..nah cuz
He ain't no low tier

 

[GaretHax]

I don't think you're approaching what L-canceling is properly, you don't L-cancel as a meaningless input it's more of a risk reward scenario. The reward is the meta-game we see today, full of shffld aerials, shield pressure, and combo's, the risk is that you CAN **** it up. It doesn't add technical depth, or even bring anything new to the table since autocancels exist, but for a small extra input it allows the game to be more than it previously was, while still allowing for some mitigation from the opponent. Whether or not it is the ideal way of applying a risk-reward situation to normal moves is a fair question, and personally I think it could stand to be improved, no spamming, more opponent influence over your timing through their shields, and perhaps the moves should lose hitboxes near the ground or something of that sort. It isn't implemented perfectly, but it isn't an arbitrary press, at least not in the way you're presenting it, in my opinion at least. Whether or not it IS arbitrary in the current meta is debatable, however it is wise to consider that all technical barriers are arbitrary inputs in a developed meta.

 

[standardtoaster]

Registration for The Big House 4 closes at 5pm EST today. Currently at 545 Melee Singles entrants and 314 Project M Singles entrants! Last chance to register if you plan on attending. http://umsmash.com

 

[AlphaQHard]

im sad i dont have a wii

 

[Deleted member]

oh okay then lets just make everything autocancel. also i'd like a wavedash button. and a shorthop button. and we should just make it so we can attack out of shield without jumping since its just an extra input and we're going to cancel the shield lag anyway.

if you want a game with no mechanics, just load the disc normally instead of using homebrew and stay really far away from the development team, thanks.

 

[Empyrean]

Ground moves should be l-cancellable kappa.

 

[Deleted member]

Ground moves should be l-cancellable kappa.

i would rather give moves iasa properties than make them shield stun forever to the point where you just respect block because you dont even want to try counterplay after defending the attack successfully (mario) if thats what youre getting at