Project M Social Thread Gold

[| Kailex |]

Eh, what's hard about doing tilt attacks, all of them are the same.

 

[Warsaint777]

It's been a while.

 

[Lizalfos]

I really like FE for friendlies, but its basically a PS1 where the transformation can make the stage disappear under you.

I attended one of PDude's 1-UP tourneys. I'm friends with Soni and Player -0 who team at those tournaments.

Relating to crowds: I find it funny that if smash a tourney were equivalent to a football stadium that it technically a good thing. Furthermore, a 7th place chant is kinda mild. Are we gonna ostracize/kick out people who are just really into the game and want someone to win? This reminds me of when I saw a youtube comment claiming USA chants against AMSA were "racist".

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I attended one of PDude's 1-UP tourneys. I'm friends with Soni and Player -0 who team at those tournaments

We will play smash, soon, sooner than others. No really, everyone has been extra busy and I wanna play smash.

 

[Praxis]

You're bad at edgeguarding Diddy and should feel bad.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

You're bad at edgeguarding Diddy and should feel bad.

2 many words
Try again

 

[Praxis]

2 many words
Try again

Sigh

I should just make an animated GIF of my crewmate Light killing me with edgeguards

Oh wait that's basically our whole matches

 

[Lizalfos]

You're bad at edgeguarding Diddy and should feel bad.
-super informative picture-

I either grab the ledge or charge the F-Smash? You are awesome. Please post more stuff like this, but putting it in a spoiler might help .

 

[Comeback Kid]

Notice the graph doesn't cover exploding barrels. The worst thing about Diddy that needs to go.

 

[Lizalfos]

Notice the graph doesn't cover exploding barrels. The worst thing about Diddy that needs to go.

Oh, well then :L
I could always play ness and PK fire to dropzone D-air. That would be super flashy.

 

[| Kailex |]

Dont know anything about the game, but that lion looks like wolf on fire.

 

[GP&B]

I really like FE for friendlies, but its basically a PS1 where the transformation can make the stage disappear under you.

I attended one of PDude's 1-UP tourneys. I'm friends with Soni and Player -0 who team at those tournaments.

Relating to crowds: I find it funny that if smash a tourney were equivalent to a football stadium that it technically a good thing. Furthermore, a 7th place chant is kinda mild. Are we gonna ostracize/kick out people who are just really into the game and want someone to win? This reminds me of when I saw a youtube comment claiming USA chants against AMSA were "racist".

IIRC, Armada attested to hearing a guy shouting to M2K "You should have landed that FSmash, you ****ing suck!" which I personally don't really think was okay. I think the point being made was that cheering for someone and outright dumping on your opponent are not the same and the latter shouldn't be okay. I'm not really a fan of trash talk to begin with unless it's good-natured and jokingly done anyways so take that for what it is. I just don't really get any joy out of demeaning my opponent; I mean, it is a game after all.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Dont know anything about the game, but that lion looks like wolf on fire.

Kickstarter incoming!

 

[Lizalfos]

IIRC, Armada attested to hearing a guy shouting to M2K "You should have landed that FSmash, you ****ing suck!" which I personally don't really think was okay. I think the point being made was that cheering for someone and outright dumping on your opponent are not the same and the latter shouldn't be okay. I'm not really a fan of trash talk to begin with unless it's good-natured and jokingly done anyways so take that for what it is. I just don't really get any joy out of demeaning my opponent; I mean, it is a game after all.

Yeah, I guess if its super mean-spirited then it can be frowned upon, but I think that hate will always exist and no hard rule can really exist without hurting those who are cheering in the right way.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Dont know anything about the game, but that lion looks like wolf on fire.

Looks perdy damn cool.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

You're bad at edgeguarding Diddy and should feel bad.

10/10 graph, plz make more of those <3

 

[Lizalfos]

Wow, Rivals of Aether's lion moveset is literally just P:M's Wolf. Is the P:M backroom flattered?

 

[| Kailex |]

Arent most of wolf's attack animations from brawl

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Arent most of wolf's attack animations from brawl

You played brawl, answer yo own question!!

 

[Lizalfos]

I guess, but the way it seems to combo tho.

 

[Bazkip]

I was late for my 2PM class because I slept in, I think I might need to stop going to bed at 5AM >_>

 

[| Kailex |]

How could you even sleep 9 hours, I can barely sleep 5 hours in one go

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Splatoon victim

Spoiler

http://touch.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=big&illust_id=44493575

@ | Kailex |
Fixed

 

[Bazkip]

How could you even sleep 9 hours, I can barely sleep 5 hours in one go

It wasn't 9 hours straight, I woke up around 8AM due to a nosebleed. But yeah I was surprised too, I generally don't sleep in much past noon, even if I'm really tired or go to bed late.

 

[| Kailex |]

Splatoon victim

Spoiler

Image is not working, please fix, I want to see pics too

 

[Praxis]

Just to elaborate a little more.

I made this image because I'm tired of people blaming my character, who does not place top eight at nationals, for my wins. I've even had commentators talking about how "broken" my character was while I was playing someone who was higher ranked than me and playing an IMO better character.

And for a secondary reason: the best players and my crewmates already edgeguard me right, so I want to stop developing bad habits by the fact that 9 out of 10 players in my region do it wrong. (not even kidding, I can count the ones who edgeguard me right on one hand)

Third: I'm worried about a rushed nerf in reaction to people's complaining about Diddy. If Diddy gets nerfed to accommodate people who don't try to learn to deal with his kit, he will be unviable against people who do know how to deal with it. Diddy is not top five in PM. Arguably, and IMO, not top ten. And has never placed top eight in a national. He's just super popular among ex-Brawl players in MD/VA, which gets a lot of streamtime. If Diddy gets nerfed, he will be unviable once people develop the metagame against him and start teching bananas and edgeguarding.



Here's the deal.

It's quite feasible to cover all of Diddy's recovery options, but you have to actually spend time learning what they are. If you rush in and grab the ledge to edgehog, Diddy just charges longer and hits you. If you just charge a smash, he sweetspots.

Threaten a ledgehog to force him to charge longer, then charge a smash from a spot that covers an unsweetspotted ledge grab and a shot on to the stage? Dead monkey.

Diddy's recovery is good and long, but it is not safe. I'd happily trade for Mewtwo's, even though Diddy gets a little more distance.

A key factor is that, if you are aware of his options and covering them like I outlined in the chart, it is low risk to edgeguard Diddy. You can edgeguard him very effectively via positioning yourself on the ledge right (kind of like edgeguarding Fox in Melee, but Fox's up-B has a much bigger hitbox). This is in contrast to characters like Mewtwo and Samus, who basically get back to the ledge for free if you don't take a risk to go after them.


THIS IS DIDDY'S UP B HITBOX.

I've seen people complain about his low landing time all the time. Diddy's low landing lag out of up-B isn't a problem though. The problem is that people see a rocket coming at them, panic, SHIELD the Diddy's recovery, and then get mad when they can't punish Diddy. Don't shield his recovery- hit him!

If he doesn't sweetspot the ledge...every character has something that will beat his hitbox. It doesn't cover his head. It's just that people don't cover the options well and then don't react to the unexpected up-B on to the stage. Fox's Phantasm (which is much harder to react to) gets beaten by good players- because they know his options and when he has to do it.

Diddy's recovery isn't OP- you just have to learn how to position yourself to beat it, just like all of you did with Fox back in the Melee days.

 

[shairn]

So this is how you guys play melee in Ontario

 

[Warsaint777]

I had no idea what a hitbox looked like. Wow.

 

[Deleted member]

...i think diddy needs a tether.

 

[hotdogturtle]

So this is how you guys play melee in Ontario

I don't agree with this at all. Music off is not appropriate for a tournament setting.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

...i think diddy needs a tether.

And let him chuck his juggling balls with the force of stitch face turnip, just for good measure.

 

[DrinkingFood]

You're bad at edgeguarding Diddy and should feel bad.

So what about every other point possible from which he might start charging up-b?
What about if he starts charging early enough that he can get onto a platform? This happens a lot, he doesn't have to be above the stage when he starts charging for it to be an option.
What If, instead of charging farther when he sees you go for an edgehog, he just releases and knocks you away before you edgegrab?
What if he drifts back to the edge after charging for a long time? Not all characters can cover and punish a lagless landing when the opponent can land anywhere on one half of the stage, exacerbated by his ability to drift all the way back to the edge.
What about side-b, which often makes up-b not even a necessity?

 

[Praxis]

Notice the graph doesn't cover exploding barrels. The worst thing about Diddy that needs to go.

Diddy actually needs the barrels at time though, because his head is uncovered. Zelda fireballs around the stage lip? You're just going to have to run in to them until you can sent a barrel at Zelda, then you have a shot at getting on stage while she dodges the barrels. I've actually deliberately charged up-B'd at Falco lasers before so I could chase a barrel and mess up his spacing. I had one case where a Sonic caught me out of my up-B with his spring, like four times in a row until finally he had to avoid a barrel misfire- I was stuck repeatedly up-Bing in to the darn spring.


I 100% agree that it's unfair to get punished for hitting Diddy though. I think barrel misfires should do only 1% with very low knockback/hitstun, so Diddy can still use to get out of certain situations, but will never get a combo or kill or significant damage off of them.

...i think diddy needs a tether.

Yes please, I've always wanted to main Brawl Metaknight.

 

[DrinkingFood]

"But diddy needs the barrel so he has a solution to every problem offstage!"
Do you realize what you are saying

 

[Soft Serve]

Barrels are stupid

Diddy's Up-b is super flexible, but definitely has weaknesses and paths where its punishable.

What about side-b, which often makes up-b not even a necessity?

This is huge imo, One of Diddy's best recovery options is good DI > early side-b, DJ and air dodge onto stage as necessary. Its something a lot of characters have though, and only good if you bait out something and they weren't prepared for it at all.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

You're bad at edgeguarding Diddy and should feel bad.

*Jots down notes*

 

[shairn]

Why would you take notes when they've already done that for you

 

[Soft Serve]

Because he can' refer to them mid-set from his notebook, obs.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Why would you take notes when they've already done that for you

Erm.. Redundancy..! I got nothing.. ^^;

 

[Comeback Kid]

I think the philosophy behind recoveries in general needs to be seriously looked at instead of desperately defending whoever your main character is from recovery nerfs because then he won't be as stupid good as other characters with similar abilities.