Project M Social Thread Gold

[Draco_The]

no you're actually right

but what I'm saying is that even though I haven't played either of the games, what I've got from everything on the internet is that the "mahvel" of umvc3 also refers to just a total busted balance where some teams just kinda run train and make the game really unfun for everyone else and that mvc2 is better in terms of balance and mechanics and being more fun to play
idk if it's similar to melee syndrome but from what I've seen umvc3 still doesn't look like that fun of a game to play at a high level

I've only played MvC2 and never at high level so this all comes from vids I've watched, forums and such, but MvC3 still has a somewhat good balance. Top tier teams are still kinda obvious but it's not a HUGE gap. It's not like Bowser vs any high tier in Melee. The main problem of the game is that you don't spend a lot of time playing it. Once someone gets caught in a combo it's pretty much a loss. There are LOTS of ToD combos, and after that it's always a difficult to tell fake cross up/mindfu** or whatever into another ToD combo. X-factor doesn't help much either. You just get too punished for trying to do something.

Meanwhile, in MvC2 combos are fairly fast and simple. Ground boost combo into aerial one into Super, and due to the fast nature of the game (it's not at all like in SF4 where you get an unteachable knockdown after a Super/Ultra) you get back to the crazy neutral game again in a blink. It's difficult to get the hang of it but it's fun.

Tatsunoko vs Capcom is a very nice vs game BTW, even if Zero and Roll are kinda stupid, the first one because everything and the second one because even though she's actually quite bad her small hurtbox always manages to throw my game off and her life restorating Super can be kinda annoying.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Korra Rebuild when?

 

[Bleck]

but what I'm saying is that even though I haven't played either of the games, what I've got from everything on the internet is that the "mahvel" of umvc3 also refers to just a total busted balance where some teams just kinda run train and make the game really unfun for everyone else and that mvc2 is better in terms of balance and mechanics and being more fun to play
idk if it's similar to melee syndrome but from what I've seen umvc3 still doesn't look like that fun of a game to play at a high level

MVC2 is way more unbalanced than UMVC3 - roughly one third of UMVC3's cast is competitively viable (and even the ones that aren't are still playable), but MVC2 is literally limited to four out of the fifty-six characters.

That being said, UMVC3 still suffers from the biggest problem plaguing fighting games, in that it's not so much complex as it is needlessly exacting. If you can't consistently pull off very long chains of frame perfect links, you're not gonna do well. It's very disappointing.

 

[SpiderMad]

so you're saying that people will pay money for a spiritual successor to melee?

hmmm if only there were one of those

Air Dash Online RIP

I can't remember a single dream I have at all. Am I supposed to remember dreams? lol

None at all since ever?

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

MVC2 is way more unbalanced than UMVC3 - roughly one third of UMVC3's cast is competitively viable (and even the ones that aren't are still playable), but MVC2 is literally limited to four out of the fifty-six characters.

That being said, UMVC3 still suffers from the biggest problem plaguing fighting games, in that it's not so much complex as it is needlessly exacting. If you can't consistently pull off very long chains of frame perfect links, you're not gonna do well. It's very disappointing.

lol whelp I'm misinformed

is it really too much to ask for a balanced, fun to play, fast paced, active community-wise, and not needlessly technically exacting traditional fighting game?

 

[Kurogal]

Kurogal best tsundere.

Uh, should I take this as a compliment? I guess I'm pretty moody but I wouldn't quite say I'm a tsundere, since I don't even know who I'm being tsundere towards.

I've only played MvC2 and never at high level so this all comes from vids I've watched, forums and such, but MvC3 still has a somewhat good balance. Top tier teams are still kinda obvious but it's not a HUGE gap. It's not like Bowser vs any high tier in Melee. The main problem of the game is that you don't spend a lot of time playing it. Once someone gets caught in a combo it's pretty much a loss. There are LOTS of ToD combos, and after that it's always a difficult to tell fake cross up/mindfu** or whatever into another ToD combo. X-factor doesn't help much either. You just get too punished for trying to do something.

Meanwhile, in MvC2 combos are fairly fast and simple. Ground boost combo into aerial one into Super, and due to the fast nature of the game (it's not at all like in SF4 where you get an unteachable knockdown after a Super/Ultra) you get back to the crazy neutral game again in a blink. It's difficult to get the hang of it but it's fun.

Tatsunoko vs Capcom is a very nice vs game BTW, even if Zero and Roll are kinda stupid, the first one because everything and the second one because even though she's actually quite bad her small hurtbox always manages to throw my game off and her life restorating Super can be kinda annoying.

Shouldn't you be sleeping to get ready for your Calculus 2 test? Oh, and I guess you didn't see the edit to my last post so I'll just say it here again, sleep well, good night and good luck with your Calculus 2 finals tomorrow/today!

captains log
10 hours into fate stay night
story is fantastic
no h scenes yet
will report if any changes

Fate/Stay Night wasn't initially written with ero-scenes in mind, it was only shoved in because the publisher wanted it, so they're few and far between, usually only at the endings.

I can't remember a single dream I have at all. Am I supposed to remember dreams? lol

The brain naturally tries to delete the memory of dreams, the best thing you can easily do to remember is right it down as soon as write down the dream in detail as soon you wake up to remember, unless you're saying you wake up with no memories of even dreaming at all. Oh, and also did you solve your notepad++ and PDF to RTF issues yet?

I'm actually not a teacher, haha. I'm a tutor and grad student who also TAs for a few classes. I'm getting a Master's in Computer Science. I've found that while I like teaching and helping others understand things, it's not quite what I want to do. I do have to go over papers, but it's largely papers on technical stuff as well as peer-editing things for other grad students. I don't have an english degree. My own writing on here is pretty mediocre, it's mostly just stream of consciousness. The words I type are pretty much the ones going through my head.

As for your debate...I'm not really going to delve into the issues the debate was about mostly because I have a lot to say and no good way to say it without risking a flame war. Keep in mind I'm by no means a debate specialist, but reading through it, I'd recommend using a bit less hyperbole and generally try to abstain from statements that could undermine the opponent's intelligence. Saying stuff like "Oh my god, I can't believe you...." and such tends to really grate on people. And plenty of people do it, too, which makes it all the harder to abstain. I can tell you definitely got frustrated, but try not to let that color the way you phrase things, it makes for a much more pleasant experience for everyone reading it. Using sarcasm and cynicism can be effective, but more often than not, it just leads to escalation, so it's stuff I personally tend to avoid. Oh yeah, and never get into internet arguments when tired, it just doesn't end well.

But I'd take my advice with a grain of salt: I'm not a debate coach, and most of this comes from my own way of doing argumentation, which may not work for you.

So, you're in school while tutoring people? I see, what do you learn about in Computer Science? And what careers are you planning on pursuing? And ah, I see, your stream of consciousness seems to be much better than mine though.

And if you don't mind sharing them privately, we could just start a private conversation, that should hopefully limit the fallout from even the worst case scenario to just us. And that's pretty sound advice on paper, but it really will be hard to follow that in practice. Especially right now at the moment since I've been up for 23 hours so far, and I'm not sure how I'll be able to handle anything other than an echo chamber right now.

And I'll keep in mind that this isn't professional advice, but what you said so far seems much better than just doing what I felt like.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Air Dash Online RIP

wow I just looked at some screenshots of this game

holy ****

rip

 

[Yung Mei]

playin' misadventures of tron bonne, this game reminds me a lot of azumanga daioh for some reason

 

[Draco_The]

It's unlikely that the Melee community is sizable enough to justify the development of an online-enabled re-release - other fighting games, like Street Fighter, have been able to get away with it because their community isn't as fractured as Smash' is (as a SF player that plays SF2, SFA, SF3 and SF4, I can attest to this) - most Street Fighter players are going to buy Street Fighter games.

Most Melee players, in comparison, are going to stick to what they know - in my town, for example, it's already been argued multiple times that Melee is "more accessible" because it's on an older, cheaper console. What makes you think that people in this mindset are gonna buy a Wii U to play Melee on?

You make some good points, but I don't think rereleases are targetted for people that don't have the console yet. Old games won't make people want to buy a whole new console for them.

Most people who got a Wii U aren't new to Nintendo and most probably already knew most of the franchises that are getting new games nowadays beforehand. Nintendo right now just wants to get some money from these people so the Wii U isn't that much of a fail. That's why I think that rereleasing Melee with online wouldn't be that bad of an idea.

Nintendo knows their demographic way better than a random consumer like me so if they didn't do that I guess it's not that good of an idea.

 

[Rᴏb]

misadventures of tron bonne is a great game
i want legends 3

 

[MLGF]

I love how Xenoblade slowly shifts from a man vs machine theme to a rage against the heaven theme.

And by slowly, I mean "Two hour long cutscene plot twist"

But damn is it awesome.

 

[NW_Gump]

lol whelp I'm misinformed

is it really too much to ask for a balanced, fun to play, fast paced, active community-wise, and not needlessly technically exacting traditional fighting game?

I was going to tell you about Guilty Gear Xrd and then I saw your last point. WHEEELLLPPPPP.....

 

[Helsong]

So, you're in school while tutoring people? I see, what do you learn about in Computer Science? And what careers are you planning on pursuing? And ah, I see, your stream of consciousness seems to be much better than mine though.

And if you don't mind sharing them privately, we could just start a private conversation, that should hopefully limit the fallout from even the worst case scenario to just us. And that's pretty sound advice on paper, but it really will be hard to follow that in practice. Especially right now at the moment since I've been up for 23 hours so far, and I'm not sure how I'll be able to handle anything other than an echo chamber right now.

And I'll keep in mind that this isn't professional advice, but what you said so far seems much better than just doing what I felt like.

I'm currently doing more research into AI as I pursue my master's. I'd like to make games some day, but I'll settle for it being a side hobby.
As for careers? Trophy wife I'm either going to stay as a researcher in academia or go out and be a standard software engineer. There's worse ways to spend my life, and it'll give me opportunities to pursue my major hobbies.

If you want to really converse about it, get some sleep and pm me later! It'll be far easier on both of us, I assure you.
For me at least, I tend to not get overly heated in online conversations, mostly because while I do type stream of consciousness, I tend to be a very..unemotional person in my surface thoughts. I actually get very emotional beneath the surface, but it rarely comes to the fore.

How about you? Going to school as well? Play Smash competitively? You mentioned your avatar earlier-where's that from? My initial reaction is: lewd, haha. You don't need to share if its particularly nsfw.

 

[Bleck]

I love how Xenoblade slowly shifts from a man vs machine theme to a rage against the heaven theme.

And by slowly, I mean "Two hour long cutscene plot twist"

yes, xenoblade is a jrpg

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

You make some good points, but I don't think rereleases are targetted for people that don't have the console yet. Old games won't make people want to buy a whole new console for them.

Most people who got a Wii U aren't new to Nintendo and most probably already knew most of the franchises that are getting new games nowadays beforehand. Nintendo right now just wants to get some money from these people so the Wii U isn't that much of a fail. That's why I think that rereleasing Melee with online wouldn't be that bad of an idea.

Nintendo knows their demographic way better than a random consumer like me so if they didn't do that I guess it's not that good of an idea.

I mean

I'm not sure about that, I think NoA might but NoJ is a completely different beast

also with regards to people playing consecutive games: PM is evidence of people gladly playing a spiritual successor

but the spiritual successors mentioned earlier never had the playerbase of the original games, unlike official street fighter entries

if nintendo released melee hd tomorrow, melee itself would practically be dead after evo
if nintendo released PM branded as melee hd tomorrow and promised patch updates, the same thing would happen

pmdt isn't nintendo and try as they might, (even if they do a much better job) people will always hold that caveat over their heads. pmdt came from the "rabble" of the low-tier mains of the melee community and some people will never forget that and the pmdt will never attain the quasi god-status of sakurai
ironically, they lose some of their legitimacy because they're relatable and because they listen to the community with regards to content and balance changes

like of course there'll always be people who play melee and I honestly doubt that melee will ever die because nothing official with the same IPs will ever replace it (the only way it could happen is if everyone at nintendo retires/stops caring so in a way it may be inevitable and melee will probably be remade eventually) but the "melee heads" and the majority of the melee scene will more than likely move onto the next official (or a large-scale third party platform fighter, as long as it's similar enough and has the air of legitimacy) game with mechanics very similar to melee given a community impetus and the chance to actually succeed

PM has honestly had all the success that a fan mod could hope for: large amounts of crossover with the original scene of the game it was based on and replacing all other games in the series in some regions

edit:

I was going to tell you about Guilty Gear Xrd and then I saw your last point. WHEEELLLPPPPP.....

lol also it's not on pc ;_;
like kof xiii and 98 fit all of those except the last as well but whatever

melty blood might fit all of them (disregarding joke neko characters) because the community is still active in some corners of japan

 

[Bleck]

no company has gone out of their way to make a game structurally similar to competitive-level Melee because no company wants to spend a significant amount of money building a game that isn't very good just 'cause a very small group of people is passionate about it

Melee's continued popularity has nothing to do with quality; the fact that it continues to be popular while PM (literally the same game, but better) exists is demonstrative of this

like kof xiii and 98 fit all of those except the last as well but whatever

melty blood might fit all of them (disregarding joke neko characters) because the community is still active in some corners of japan

the biggest problem with fighting games is the focus on frame-perfect bull****, but the biggest problem with the fighting game community is that it believes that the presence of frame-perfect bull**** is what makes a fighting game legitimate

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

melee is not inherently a bad game

a lot of the controls are unintuitive and the balance is **** it's kinda terrible in terms of character design (ie lets ignore archetypes and throw move properties onto a wall and see what works)

but there's nothing wrong with the basic premise of being a "sandbox" fighter focusing heavily on movement and defender/attacker interaction even during combos

also ayyy page 2018 that's when I'll stop being an undergrad (most likely the saddest and happiest event of my life)

 

[Player -0]

Melee is a low quality game? I'd argue with that.

 

[Frost | Odds]

That feel when you want to challenge Hax$ to a MM but you haven't played anything but your own dev builds for a week

RIP, any 3.5 skill I may have formerly possessed

 

[Bleck]

melee is not inherently a bad game

a lot of the controls are unintuitive and the balance is **** it's kinda terrible in terms of character design (ie lets ignore archetypes and throw move properties onto a wall and see what works)

but there's nothing wrong with the basic premise of being a "sandbox" fighter focusing heavily on movement and defender/attacker interaction even during combos

having a good basic premise but shoddy elements and unintuitive controls and a metagame based entirely around two functions, one of which is emergent gameplay and the other of which is a crappy design choice, is what makes a game bad

also note that I'm not saying, like, "Super Smash Bros. Melee" is a bad game, but rather "Melee", as in "six stages, five characters, half the match is Fox SHFFLng his nair in place", is a bad game

 

[Helsong]

also ayyy page 2018 that's when I'll stop being an undergrad (most likely the saddest and happiest event of my life)

It'll be pretty happy, so long as you network well, make good friends, get good grades, and generally succeed in a lot of ways during your undergrad. I also can't overstate how important it is to explore interests while you can, and generally push yourself into doing stuff you might be interested in, but are unsure about. For me it was very happy. I'm still in touch with the profs I liked, I grew up a ton, and I met my absolute bestest friend ever.

I'd argue that the biggest things keeping Melee from being an amazing game by today's standards is the general lack of polish, the shoddy uncustomizable controls, characters with serious design flaws, and tech that is entirely unexplained. But, the most well-remembered games are often the ones that are flawed. I definitely look forward to new IPs taking the premise of what made Melee good and adding more to it with modern design. Platform Fighter is a genre that absolutely should be explored, and we're only just beginning to see the start of it with Rivals of Aether(PSABR before it too, I suppose, but that didn't take Melee's premise).

Also, we've discovered the first warm blooded fish. Isn't life amazing?

 

[Lizalfos]

>Smashboards
>Main hub for every Smash discussion.
Has been unblocked for years.
>Squidboards
>Has less users and popularity, only for one game.
Blocked.

School admins wat are you doing?

Squids = porn?

yes, xenoblade is a jrpg

You certainly are Bleck
:^)

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

having a good basic premise but shoddy elements and unintuitive controls and a metagame based entirely around two functions, one of which is emergent gameplay and the other of which is a crappy design choice, is what makes a game bad

also note that I'm not saying, like, "Super Smash Bros. Melee" is a bad game, but rather "Melee", as in "six stages, five characters, half the match is Fox SHFFLng his nair in place", is a bad game

melee is a bad game I agree with this

but the "soul" of melee ie what separates it from all other fighting games is good

but yeah melee in all respects is a bad game with literally zero well-designed characters (except mayyyyybe captain falcon) that only people truly and insanely dedicated to upholding a status quo would play

It'll be pretty happy, so long as you network well, make good friends, get good grades, and generally succeed in a lot of ways during your undergrad. I also can't overstate how important it is to explore interests while you can, and generally push yourself into doing stuff you might be interested in, but are unsure about. For me it was very happy. I'm still in touch with the profs I liked, I grew up a ton, and I met my absolute bestest friend ever.

I'd argue that the biggest things keeping Melee from being an amazing game by today's standards is the general lack of polish, the shoddy uncustomizable controls, characters with serious design flaws, and tech that is entirely unexplained. But, the most well-remembered games are often the ones that are flawed. I definitely look forward to new IPs taking the premise of what made Melee good and adding more to it with modern design. Platform Fighter is a genre that absolutely should be explored, and we're only just beginning to see the start of it with Rivals of Aether(PSABR before it too, I suppose, but that didn't take Melee's premise).

Also, we've discovered the first warm blooded fish. Isn't life amazing?

moreso I'll be incredibly sad that it's over and incredibly happy of what I can set out to do with my life (ie go to grad school lmao)

more platform fighters will eventually happen
eventually

we can only hope that they're good

also holy **** a warm-blooded fish aint that something

 

[MechWarriorNY]

Warm-blooded reptiles when? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Melee is a low quality game? I'd argue with that.

That sort of thing is precisely where most problems with Maylay™ begin.

 

[Mansta]

Squids = porn?

Nah, it just says prohibited gaming content, although I realize it's probably due to the shoutbox.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

This sounds both adorable and so very sad. Things get better!

Uh, should I take this as a compliment? I guess I'm pretty moody but I wouldn't quite say I'm a tsundere, since I don't even know who I'm being tsundere towards.

How about me? Are you interested in calling me a baka and stomping on me? Wanna maek out bb? Hmu gorl.

 

[Bleck]

melee is a bad game I agree with this

but the "soul" of melee ie what separates it from all other fighting games is good

but yeah melee in all respects is a bad game with literally zero well-designed characters (except mayyyyybe captain falcon) that only people truly and insanely dedicated to upholding a status quo would play

I agree with this

 

[SpiderMad]

@ Soft Serve K so I played PM today and went for Dash Shield Drop and would get an insta-waveland. Is that what you were talking about? I wasn't able to replicate it by frame advance (which is why you needed to record a video). This (physics delay) thing also means someone can get instawavelands without jumpsquat being necessary on platforms (which is what you said). I'm also on the Wifi-set, so your assumptions that when you use a light shield and such I don't know about how it differs and you need to make a video.

omg this is some of the dumbest opinions I've read about Melee from you noobs

 

[Lizalfos]

having a good basic premise but shoddy elements and unintuitive controls and a metagame based entirely around two functions, one of which is emergent gameplay and the other of which is a crappy design choice, is what makes a game bad

also note that I'm not saying, like, "Super Smash Bros. Melee" is a bad game, but rather "Melee", as in "six stages, five characters, half the match is Fox SHFFLng his nair in place", is a bad game

Melee certainly is a fighting game.
And Street Fighter had only one stage lol.
I don't think you know how to play Fox, much less high level Melee and consequently PM.
Also, PM has the same "awful" design as Melee.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

@ Soft Serve K so I played PM today and went for Dash Shield Drop and would get an insta-waveland. Is that what you were talking about? I wasn't able to replicate it by frame advance (which is why you needed to record a video). This (physics delay) thing also means someone can get instawavelands without jumpsquat being necessary on platforms.

omg this is some of the dumbest opinions I've read about Melee from you noobs

I said it was a good concept but a bad game

I also play melee and enjoy it (maybe to less of a degree than pm tho)
so I'm stupid both by what you say and what i say

 

[Bleck]

I don't think you know how to play Fox, much less high level Melee and consequently PM.

like that's cool and all but you're like 15 or something so I'm fairly certain I'm allowed to ignore your opinions

Also, PM has the same "awful" design as Melee.

yes, l-canceling is dumb, I agree

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

like that's cool and all but you're like 15 or something so I'm fairly certain I'm allowed to ignore your opinions

one of the few times I've wanted to sig a bleck post

 

[Soft Serve]

@ Soft Serve K so I played PM today and went for Dash Shield Drop and would get an insta-waveland. Is that what you were talking about? I wasn't able to replicate it by frame advance (which is why you needed to record a video). This (physics delay) thing also means someone can get instawavelands without jumpsquat being necessary on platforms (which is what you said). I'm also on the Wifi-set, so your assumptions that when you use a light shield and such I don't know about how it differs and you need to make a video.

omg this is some of the dumbest opinions I've read about Melee from you noobs

Its probably really similar, same rough mechanics. Its why I light press shield for all of my platform stuff by just habit of light shield+tilt down on platforms in Melee. I haven't had any problems with executing it since the light shield is muscle memory, but I'll try to get to making a video as soon as I have a rig lol. Soon, waiting on one more paycheck to order everything just so I know i have enough and then some still in the bank for emergency/getting by till the next one.

 

[SpiderMad]

I said it was a good concept but a bad game

Just like Hitler

Its probably really similar, same rough mechanics. Its why I light press shield for all of my platform stuff by just habit of light shield+tilt down on platforms in Melee. I haven't had any problems with executing it since the light shield is muscle memory, but I'll try to get to making a video as soon as I have a rig lol. Soon, waiting on one more paycheck to order everything just so I know i have enough and then some still in the bank for emergency/getting by till the next one.

A rig or a console? Video cam it

 

[Jaedrik]

( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°) ╭∩╮ hey @Lunchables, here's some "Environmental Noises" for you ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°) ╭∩╮

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Just like Hitler

yep exactly like hitler

 

[Soft Serve]

Just like Hitler

A rig or a console? Video cam it

I dont want to just video tape my TV because I want to make a good quality video about it, and It'll be much easier to present all the information once I get a good dolphin setup going. If I was going to just throw up some cam footage I'd have done it forever ago

 

[Vashimus]

I was going to tell you about Guilty Gear Xrd and then I saw your last point. WHEEELLLPPPPP.....

What's complicated about it? If you can chain buttons into sweep, you can perform a basic combo with pretty much anyone in Guilty Gear that will end in a knockdown. That's more than I can say for something like Street Fighter.

 

[MLGF]

No one would argue that if PM were Brawl, Melee would be dead or much smaller then it currently is.

And yes, Melee players like Melee and prefer the smaller matchup pool and get some dopamine junk from the (overrated) tech barrier over PM. I think objectively, 3.5 is a better executed Melee, but eh that's life.

I can't argue that the stigma some Melee players make for PM hurts it unfairly. And I can't help but feel annoyed when a game that rewards the same basic mechanics is dismissed for gimmicks when generally a lot of top players have the same mindset as Melee players and Melee has Fox Mc'Cloud.

 

[mimgrim]

lol whelp I'm misinformed

is it really too much to ask for a balanced, fun to play, fast paced, active community-wise, and not needlessly technically exacting traditional fighting game?

I haven't gotten the chance to really get deep into the game yet but maybe Street Fighter? I think it's gonna be hard to find any traditional fighter that isnt technically demanding one way or another though tbh.

I love how Xenoblade slowly shifts from a man vs machine theme to a rage against the heaven theme.

And by slowly, I mean "Two hour long cutscene plot twist"

But damn is it awesome.

FE7 has seriusly distracted me from this game. Iirc I'm on the fallen arm trying to get stuff to help Seven. I know that when I get Seven back I should probably work on getting the 4th skill trees and bonus Monado arts but it seems like such a pain to go through. And FE7 is so godlike fun as **** why didn't I play this sooner that I just want to play it and play it.