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Project M Social Thread Gold

SpiderMad

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
DrinkingFood said:
Mad light press airdodge sucks, no real feedback for when the airdodge is triggered. If you're worried about ergonomic at all just take out the spring and then it's less resistant and you'll get responsive airdodginf 100% of the time.
Click to expand...
Indeed that's the route many players have gone faced with current lack of light press option: Bursny, Zhime (he likes light press more but closest thing for him when he goes to tournaments), SeagullJoe, etc.
That changes your grip for I'd say the worse. With light press you can be more free range: for L users for the control stick, or face buttons for R. Similar to your post here on why you use R to preserve your control stick control-
DrinkingFood said:
R for wavedashing, optimizes grip on the left side for best control of the control stick short of relearning using a left handed claw
I used to L-cancel with L but switched to R for the above reason.
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-though I don't use R: so I couldn't say for myself how Light press affects R users with certainty. Though the people listed at the end of this that use light press possibly use R http://smashboards.com/posts/17071426/ .

I use L in Melee (and play Falco like you), the grip control range of the control stick isn't too detrimental and you only notice the extra free range when going back to PM light pressing. But this all gets exaggerated when you remove your springs, being that everything else (L-cancelling,Shielding) is now requiring your finger to be down there basically forcing the confined grip perpetually [and kinda applies to Brawl, which lots of people removed their springs for] and arguably worse for your muscle memory to be full pressing shield and L-cancel in Melee (when going back to being springed, which with light press you don't) beyond less comfortable.

Light press is instead the better way to go (except for certain people, again it's preference talk: but in regards to trying to draw theoretical conclusions of which is better vs springless). Not only does it not require modding your controller, but most gamecube games used light press (knowing they would be wasting people's fingers setting it on hard press, given games that were released on other consoles didn't make use of analog sensitivity so they either had the choice to set the action to trigger on any analog [light press] or digital [hard press] or set an action to both [none did that I remember, again for a multi-console game]).
The benefit that removed springs (or with springs too) hard press gives with more accuracy for your air dodge is pry true, but I'd argue by not that big of a margin.
1- like I mentioned, most GC games had light press: and you manage to time things in those games with the input.
2- I could perform some kind of accuracy test using Light press Air Dodge. (closest thing I got for now is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGGHCzl_RMM , well besides all my other videos)
3- Light Press Air dodge's other benefits (like springs removed) of being quicker to trigger can make you more accurate in other ways (like not having the detriment of not releasing the spring in time after you hard press and triggering shield)
4- Some controller's hard press are awful and don't even trigger occasionally
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w9NMFxU1Eg
5- Hard press makes the controller vibrate annoyingly in certain controllers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1EMIfb8Dbo#t=234

Hard fact detriments to both Springless, Light Press Air dodge, and all Wii controllers being used for PM are (in the fullset):
- Can't buffer shield in the air without being in a action to hault the air dodge
- Can't Aerial OOS without letting go of shield with tether characters (can be argued springless is better in this regard)
- Can't Shield drop Aerial without letting go of shield with tether characters (can be argued springless is better in this regard)
- The tech window being used on L-cancel
and then one that applies with 2 or more frames of buffer (if you do a cancel like Lucarios Aura it will buffer the air dodge unless you release it 2 frames or however early the buffer amount is; which in Brawl's 10 frames made it always air dodge)

So few things that suck (and are all present in Brawl/Smash 4 I believe), but again I feel Light press is so amazingly comfortable and quick to trigger the air dodge (without being inconsistent like you mention) that I still prefer it (though less for tether characters) especially if my controller doesn't have a weak/weakened hard press rubber: just as the many people who use springless or Wii Classic controller deal with these detriments.

Empyrean said:
@ SpiderMad SpiderMad here's everything someone found about smash 4 buffering

All I got is that buffer is ****ing ******** and is there to screw me over each time.
Click to expand...
Thanks I haven't got a chance to play Smash4WiiU yet: so I can't fully assess how and why they would make this change. Which I hope to learn more.

One frame of buffer is possibly the holy grail to PM though. But I can't deny it being an advantage to someone who uses it against someone who doesn't, so when it comes to tournaments there's not much I can say against it being an unfair advantage. You could argue the same for custom controls, but 1 frame of buffer alone is still possibly more powerful than any custom control, and people aren't knowledged enough to come to my same outcome that it shouldn't ever be beyond 1 frame. Short reasoning being 1 frame techniques become 2 frame techniques (like early/double/connecting/ledge aerials), throwing them into the reasonable difficulty window like they did with Samus' SWD and various other things. And then short reasoning against 2 frames or more of buffer is it starts to impact other precise inputs from being possible, while making other things all too easy and game changing (which I'll talk about more).
So they wouldn't be able to allow buffer without reasoning a specific limit, let alone come to the optimal conclusion of 1 frame. If they allowed buffer without a limit, I haven't the capability to decipher would what happen. Early on in 2.0 when custom buffer was in the fullset, people argued Wizzrobe and Reflex's high amount of buffer was allowing their characters (in this case Sonic already being amazing) to win more than they would without it: which they still won when they used it in tournaments that banned it, and then of course continued to play in 2.5 when it was delegated to remain the in Wifi set and still kept winning cus they were good players. And players back in the day also kept mentioning Multi-shines being broken/easy in regards to being against buffer: which anyone knowledged on buffer would mention the least towards being broken compared to all the other things buffer enhances (besides it only applying to Falco's slower multi-shine because of his jumpsquat allowing adequate time for the buffer to help, it doesn't help Wolf's/Fox's beyond any considerable margin beyond that fact you have to be able to good at it in the first place and it would just make you slightly more consistent if anything on the action/WD afterword). So we never can draw tournament conclusive results to determine much from the short period of time it was allowed). The most I can theorize that unrestricted buffer would do is be optimally advantaged at around 3 or 4 frames, in which now all actions that can rely on straight timing to be utilized by buffer can be chosen to be made consistently frame perfect (And mentioning examples is tediously long until you understand it moderately already; Buffering a frame perfect action after a get-up or previous/current attack, Shield grabs, perfect aerial strings, perfect early aerials; and so on): and in years time its users would show that it has a overall advantage. But that's all speculation which we didn't allow to happen (for better or worse). I can only assume it'd still be dumb, because beyond 1 frame of buffer causes many of the timing and options architectures of the game to get shaky and most certainly dramatically change the game; but they'd likely have realized all this and not allowed it in tournament. But again they didn't have to deal with this when they invented crew mode to go over the custom buffer option for the fullset: which I don't have any knowledge towards they're being work-arounds to get custom buffer back while leaving crew mode in if they tried.

Then even if you get past all that, there's the reasoning that 1 frame techniques should remain in their realm of inconsistent and shocking and admirable for the person who pulls it off. You can tell me SF players do 1 frame links all the time, but usually these techniques in Smash can involve two or three all 1 frame reliant windows beyond the factors that if you screw up it can often lead to a much worse situation (and thus all these factors have kept things like many early/double aerials from use, even 2 frame lenient ones). This is partially the reason I've been adamant on testing your guys ability on this stuff. Getting the general player consensus beyond trying to find the most technical players to gauge their full-effort'ed ability on whether some of these things can become consistently performed.
 
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Comeback Kid

Comeback Kid

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I would love an automatic l-cancel option, light press option, buffer option etc. in the official build. Allow everyone to play the game however they want to without segregating it.

Tournaments can ban it all, but I'm sure plenty of people think having such options at all would be horrible and corrupt the purity of the game for some odd reason.
 
DrinkingFood

DrinkingFood

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DrinkingFood said:
Mad light press airdodge sucks, no real feedback for when the airdodge is triggered. If you're worried about ergonomic at all just take out the spring and then it's less resistant and you'll get responsive airdodginf 100% of the time.
Click to expand...
Posted while sick at 1am
How the **** do I english

@ SpiderMad SpiderMad to retain grip while springless you can just remove the plastic column from the inside of the shoulder button of an unused controller, and place it inside the shoulder button you use to push it to full exension without a spring, allowing to click at nearly full extension.

Also wtf that quote is from ages ago goddamn
 
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Saxophoneoftime

Saxophoneoftime

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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SpiderMad said:
@ ~Dad~ ~Dad~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lre9ffkI4qA#t=194


http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-social-thread-v3-5.339825/page-1329#post-18176922
If you do any notes as a courtesy for me just here's what Ramz did so far already. Otherwise if you or @Ramz289 really felt up to it I could always grant you access to PMDepot to do some kind of super organizing with editing the videos yourselves as you watch them.
Hey dude, here are the time stop for the mango thing

Playlist 1, video 1

start
2:30

skip
4:08 - 4:37
11:22 - 12:48
13:26 - 13:41
15:20 - 15:50
16:09 - 16:50
17:27 - 18:00
21:30 - 21:41
25:10 - 25:33

vid 2
continues were vid 1 left off, 3:01 onward to be cut out

vid 3 is just mango testing the stream but at 12:19 - 14:45 he gets a skipe call from D1 each i though was kinda cool, idk is you wanna do something with that but there it is.

It's only the first vids because i haven't gotten around to seeing the other ones, like I said, It'll take a while. I was also hoping to have this to you by Sunday but **** happens.
My writing is crap so I hope this all makes sense lol.
Click to expand...
I really appreciate it; thank you. I can totally take notes/possibly even edit them for you, that'd be no problem.


Also one more question; how do you know so much about Super Smash Brother? I barely know much about the game but I want to start reading up on Melee a lot; I hope to be as knowledgeable as you are with PM, especially since I want to start commentating.
 
Hylian

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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SpiderMad said:
Indeed that's the route many players have gone faced with current lack of light press option: Bursny, Zhime (he likes light press more but closest thing for him when he goes to tournaments), SeagullJoe, etc.
That changes your grip for I'd say the worse. With light press you can be more free range: for L users for the control stick, or face buttons for R. Similar to your post here on why you use R to preserve your control stick control-

-though I don't use R: so I couldn't say for myself how Light press affects R users with certainty. Though the people listed at the end of this that use light press possibly use R http://smashboards.com/posts/17071426/ .

I use L in Melee (and play Falco like you), the grip control range of the control stick isn't too detrimental and you only notice the extra free range when going back to PM light pressing. But this all gets exaggerated when you remove your springs, being that everything else (L-cancelling,Shielding) is now requiring your finger to be down there basically forcing the confined grip perpetually [and kinda applies to Brawl, which lots of people removed their springs for] and arguably worse for your muscle memory to be full pressing shield and L-cancel in Melee (when going back to being springed, which with light press you don't) beyond less comfortable.
.
Click to expand...
Everyone should just hold the controller like I do :p. Left hand claw, right hand transitional claw. I can shine OoS using the control stick to jump because of how I hold the controller as well as do things like moonwalk perfectly with every character, extremely precise dash dances, weaving SHDL, etc.
 
PlateProp

PlateProp

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Hylian said:
Everyone should just hold the controller like I do :p. Left hand claw, right hand transitional claw. I can shine OoS using the control stick to jump because of how I hold the controller as well as do things like moonwalk perfectly with every character, extremely precise dash dances, weaving SHDL, etc.
Click to expand...
Clawing is for monster hunter
 
Saxophoneoftime

Saxophoneoftime

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Messages
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Location
MI
What music do you guys listen to when you practice? I've found that Daft Punk's Human After All is so good to practice to. It's catchy, it's repetitive which is p good for a practice environment since there's nothing exciting new to catch your attention away, there's some variation with tracks like Make Love and Emotion, and all the songs are at a good tempo.
 
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Soft Serve

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
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AZ
DMG said:
30 frame buffer. Everyone plays Fox.
Click to expand...
Fox with buffer would be so hard, one bad input when and you hit something punishable and get grabbed and die
I'd play m2 with 30 frames of buffer, never miss a DJC tp hover ever (until it gets patched)
 
PlateProp

PlateProp

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Soft Serve said:
Fox with buffer would be so hard, one bad input when and you hit something punishable and get grabbed and die
I'd play m2 with 30 frames of buffer, never miss a DJC tp hover ever (until it gets patched)
Click to expand...
I'm required by a higher law to call all of you female genitalia since you're afraid of 30 buffer

Come talk to me when you can do 120 buffer
 
MechWarriorNY

MechWarriorNY

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^Real men wear pink, bruh.
PMS | Tail said:
Real life is objectively the best fighting game

@ Grey Belnades Grey Belnades
Click to expand...
Yup. If you never want to run it back with someone after beating them, they will never get to run it back.
(That's a euphemism for killing the idiots who look for trouble and find too much in the form of you, hint hint.)
 
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Hinichii.ez.™

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
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hinichii
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Saxophoneoftime said:
What music do you guys listen to when you practice? I've found that Daft Punk's Human After All is so good to practice to. It's catchy, it's repetitive which is p good for a practice environment since there's nothing exciting new to catch your attention away, there's some variation with tracks like Make Love and Emotion, and all the songs are at a good tempo.
Click to expand...
My music pack
It is that god like
 
~Dad~

~Dad~

part time gay dad
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656
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Hylian said:
Everyone should just hold the controller like I do :p. Left hand claw, right hand transitional claw. I can shine OoS using the control stick to jump because of how I hold the controller as well as do things like moonwalk perfectly with every character, extremely precise dash dances, weaving SHDL, etc.
Click to expand...
Double claw all day every day bb
 
Saikyoshi

Saikyoshi

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You know the Giga Bowser/SoPo easter egg? Is there any way I can make additions to it in my build, so I'll be able to play as Wario Man, Metal Mario, Giant Donkey Kong, and Pink Gold Peach?

The former because it feels off just having Giga but not him. The latter three because I have their stages, but I can't stage old-timey fights against them. (Yes, I know PGP isn't old-timey. Shaddap.)

Any way to do it would probably be ultra-complicated, but hey, a guy can hope :p
 
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