Project M Back Room Releases Blog Post on v3.5, Recoveries

[Saito]

I have no idea how you'd find a good medium concerning that. In Melee it was more-or-less never used because of the extreme requirements for you to actually be able to wall-jump out of it. That being you had to be close to a wall, and Melee never felt like giving you the satisfaction of being next to a wall in its eyes.

Make it like a frame-perfect thing as soon as you hit the wall, maybe?

If you make the wall jump more difficult, it essentially serves as a unneeded technical barrier to mario's play.

Either the effectiveness needs to be decreased or the effectiveness of his other options need to be decreased.

It's going to be a tough road.

This update could be what makes or breaks project M to be honest.

 

[Swiftie_Muggle]

mmmm... if any sign of nerfing Peach is seen then im not sure ...

 

[Meme]

The second point makes me think that they've figured out the 1 frame thing in the physics... As for recoveries go I hope everything goes well...

 

[coopreme]

So what? Nerf everyone? What about the characters with lackluster recoveries like Falco and Squirtle? What about Fox? Will his recovery get nerfed?

Poor squirt can barely contain how excited he is to be on the stage at all.

 

[JCOnyx]

My guess is:

• All tethers will reel in a little slower, but not by much. Possibly nerfed to only 1 or 2 tethers per airtime.
• Hitboxes on Z tethers completely reworked to not be used as offensive powerhouses.
• Almost all UpBs will have a bit more landing lag. This will encourage people to try and sweet spot even more often, and make attempts to recover high even more risky.
  
• Diddy loses random barrels and some height on UpB
• Mario's cape nerfed to Docs. Timing on UpB double jump possibly tweaked.
  
• Mewtwo can't hover out of teleport. Could possibly lose his 2nd jump.
• Lucas's Magnet will only shift momentum once while in the air. More like Marth's SideB or Ivy's Dair.
• Squirtle's Waterfall hitboxes nerfed and Aqua Jet reworked. Aerial Bubble might stall a bit more to compensate (wishful thinking).
• Pit can't SideB again if he uses it from the ground as well as from the air.
• Ike can only walljump out of Quickdraw once per airtime instead of 2.
• Height of GnWs UpB slightly decreased.
• Sonic can only Homing Attack 1 or 2 times per airtime.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

I don't care as long as they give the Mario Bros. their real voice.

 

[qwillinallthefish]

I'm glad of this. Maybe some of the recovery haters meleetists will stop complaining about PM now. Improvements are always welcomed in my book

 

[Super FOG]

I just want Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard getting their own Final Smashes and be able to use the Final Smash by pressing A+B or any button that doesn't block my standard special.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

The second point makes me think that they've figured out the 1 frame thing in the physics...

I hope that doesn't get changed. If it does, I'll have to find a new main. (I can't consistently shorthop with characters of a 3 frame jumpstart, Roy has 4 so if it gets reduced...)

 

[0RLY]

Welcome to the "I hope the pmbr nerfs everybody except my main" thread.

AKA the "My proposed changes didn't make it in and I hate PM now so I'm going to complain about it instead of playing the game" thread.

 

[Miku Boy]

I see a good thing and a bad thing about this.

Good: Their goal is to balance or refocus out the mod.
Bad: This might hurt some people's mains in the long run.

 

[TopTierPichu]

Every one is being nerfed is a conspiracy theory, if every one is nerfed that will balance out the new comer Pichu then they will make Pichu the best in the game, I fear what the Smash Illuminati will do to me after saying this, if you dont hear back from me I just wanted to let you all know I loved you all

 

[Nstinct]

I'm seeing diddy, lucas, mario, and mewtwo getting the nerf. (hopefully not Ivy)

B-but he's only a boy!

 

[xSTx]

So many sarcastic comments, characters like Yoshi will not be getting a recovery nerf, just the ridicoulous recoveries such as Link and Pit.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

I'm just happy to see more updates come to this game, as Smash 4 approaches.

 

[Nstinct]

Hardly anyone even uses Yoshi, so I doubt he'd be a focus point.

Ness on the other hand has what feels to be better than even Brawl Lucas PKT2. So he may have a nerfed range.

I agree with nerfing those with crazy range, plus it may bring more Melee players to PM and that I welcome greatly.

 

[Estwood]

Changing recoveries in Project M? That means I have to make jokes about it on reddit. Kappa

 

[FumiQyn]

Okay sorry but I just noticed this and this is rediculous lol. Both posts have just as much context as the other, it doesn't make sense to give him a warning, like seriously.

yeah they're very touchy about they're rules here

 

[xSTx]

Hardly anyone even uses Yoshi, so I doubt he'd be a focus point.

Ness on the other hand has what feels to be better than even Brawl Lucas PKT2. So he may have a nerfed range.

I agree with nerfing those with crazy range, plus it may bring more Melee players to PM and that I welcome greatly.

I do play Yoshi and it would be great if the characters such as Link and Pit got a recovery nerf. My character takes a great deal of skill to get back on the stage with and my options all have a risk and reward factor.

I won't go in depth with everything Yoshi can do but I'll list two examples.

1. Know Yoshi's up b doesn't give him any height or distance increase, so I have to be smart with my double jump. If I'm not careful I can easily be gimped.

2. If I'm lucky enough to grab the edge I have few tricks. The idea is I do not have as many ledge options as other characters but I have a higher double jump than any character.

 

[Zoa]

#Crystal hype

 

[coopreme]

My guess is:

• All tethers will reel in a little slower, but not by much. Possibly nerfed to only 1 or 2 tethers per airtime.
• Hitboxes on Z tethers completely reworked to not be used as offensive powerhouses.
• Almost all UpBs will have a bit more landing lag. This will encourage people to try and sweet spot even more often, and make attempts to recover high even more risky.
  
• Diddy loses random barrels and some height on UpB
• Mario's cape nerfed to Docs. Timing on UpB double jump possibly tweaked.
  
• Mewtwo can't hover out of teleport. Could possibly lose his 2nd jump.
• Lucas's Magnet will only shift momentum once while in the air. More like Marth's SideB or Ivy's Dair.
• Squirtle's Waterfall hitboxes nerfed and Aqua Jet reworked. Aerial Bubble might stall a bit more to compensate (wishful thinking).
• Pit can't SideB again if he uses it from the ground as well as from the air.
• Ike can only walljump out of Quickdraw once per airtime instead of 2.
• Height of GnWs UpB slightly decreased.
• Sonic can only Homing Attack 1 or 2 times per airtime.

These ideas are the reason people don't want to switch to PM... and they stated specifically about a metagame developing... All of your guesses are just how to make everyone worse? No way they will touch Sonic's homing or squirt

 

[Renji64]

I have no issue with this seems like a step in the right directions.

 

[JCOnyx]

These ideas are the reason people don't want to switch to PM... and they stated specifically about a metagame developing... All of your guesses are just how to make everyone worse? No way they will touch Sonic's homing or squirt

I love Squirtle as much as the next guy (I found a couple neat tricks that I've shared with the boards here) but if they are reworking and balancing recoveries, everything is going to be nerfs.

And how would limiting the number of homing attacks per air time be such a bad nerf? The only thing it would stop people from doing is spamming it under the stage and stalling. Combo chains usually only use 1-2 homing attacks at most anyways.

 

[APC99]

Guys! I know how to fix the recovery issue! Bring back F.L.U.D.D. to gimp their recoveries! It's pure genius!

 

[SSGuy]

IMO, this is becoming too much like Melee if you nerf recovering some more.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

While I'm glad recoveries are being nerfed so the general speed of the game will be drastically sped up, I'm also a bit sad. It's almost guaranteed that my main Link is going to be hit with a recovery nerf since he has crazy recovery options.

I seriously doubt they're going to hit any characters with already bad recoveries as it makes no sense and are instead are going to hit the best recovery characters with a load of options like Mario, Link and maybe Ivysaur. Those are just a few I know with really good recoveries on the top of my head.

Woah... what? Ivysaur only option is a tether we all know how force jumps can be punished. Yeah, it's long reaching but it's predictable. I also believe dair only slows momentum after two uses. See her on the average to weaker side of recoveries only because her up b is so long.

I don't see Link getting touched either. A lot of his tricks are needed for him to not be low tier. Meta Knight doesn't have to glide to recover, but he can. Link nearly has to AGT to come back from horizontal trajectories.

I agree that Mario is going to get looked at for a nerf but not as much as people who can glide like Meta Knight, Pit, and Charizard or characters like Mewtwo and Diddy Kong. Samus has amazing recovery, too, and between bomb jump stalls, a solid up b, floatyness and great air control and one of the longest tethers in the game I amaze no one complains about her. Hell charge shot not only pushes you in the opposite direction but stalls your drop speed.

 

[Deleted member]

So what? Nerf everyone? What about the characters with lackluster recoveries like Falco and Squirtle? What about Fox? Will his recovery get nerfed?

I'm pretty sure they're only talking about characters with "broken" recoveries, Wombat. Squirtle's recovery will probably be left alone, as it should be.

 

[coopreme]

I'm pretty sure they're only talking about characters with "broken" recoveries, Wombat. Squirtle's recovery will probably be left alone, as it should be.

You sir, are a gentlemen and a scholar... his recovery is fine but he still gets knocked back like crazy and has little kill moves. And by little i mean less than i would like...

 

[JUSTN]

I honestly think this is a mistake in some cases. A lack in ways a character can recover makes them more predictable when trying to recover, thus making edgeguarding/hogging easier for the player on-stage. This will really kill some characters who already have poor recovery to begin with.

but then there's characters like diddy where even if you try to edge guard him, you just get hit by barrels and he gets back.

 

[drsusredfish]

Nerfs I think are going to happen.

Universal change. after your second ledge regrab ledge stalling takes away 1 frame of invincibility each time you regrab without touching the stage.

Diddy - up b won't go as far orhe could have more end landing lag.

Zelda - up b fire hit box will have more end lag and the hit box doesn't send opponent into tumble at low percents or she could go into free fall after side B in the air. I hope its not the second one.

Mario - wall jump after up b is harder or maybe he can't up b again after you wall jump from up b. I like the second idea best.

Ike - 1 wall jump after side b (This is a possible change but i doubt its going to happen cause having 2 walljumps doesn't help him too much anyway)

pit - 1 glide per air time even if started on ground or he could loose one jump. I'd prefer he loose one jump so he can't keep carrying people to the stage boundary. as of right now he is a jigs with projectiles and a grab that leads right into stage boundary carry combo. that's a bit much. sorry armada/zero it has to be done.

Kirby and jigs have 5 air jumps MK has 4 DDD has 3 and pit would have 2

Rob - no air dodge after side b and up b

Lucas - Shorten the tether distance to the actual length of the snake.

Lucario - right now he can down b in the air then up b cancel it then down b again. They may just let him get 1 down b per air time.

Buffs i think are going to happen.

Olimar - can grab ledge with his hands if the tether portion doesn't connect like ZSS

Charizard - Less endlag after glide cancel

 

[Jiggle4Life]

nooooo leave the game alone lol some characters have to be better then others, there is always going to be a best and a worse and there is no way around it

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

... but if a monkey has a jet pack and a psychic cat can teleport

WHOA!! Stop everything you just said....

Mewtwo's a cat?! :O

 

[coopreme]

WHOA!! Stop everything you just said....

Mewtwo's a cat?! :O

...


Mew - Meow
Mewtwo - A bastardized genetic clone of Mew

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

...


Mew - Meow
Mewtwo - A *******ized genetic clone of Mew

As an early 90's baby I'm so ashamed of myself right now.

 

[Toxicroaker]

I'm happy. My two mains already have terrible recoveries (Bowser and Ganondorf). However, my secondaries (Charizard and Ivysaur) will probably be hurt. Well, maybe not Charizard. His recovery isn't amazing in any form of the word. (He glides so sloooooooow.)

 

[Joe73191]

I just hope the next update isn't until AFTER Big House 4. I don't want people to have to relearn all characters until after the big tourney.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I'm not too big on nerfing. I prefer buffing the weaker characters so they too can stand their ground. Let's just give everyone something completely broken and then the roster will be kinda balanced. I'm being somewhat serious here.

 

[TheTTimeLives]

I think glide's getting finite length, but having no lag when touching the ground would be a good way to balance them out. They aren't used offensively enough as it is.

With that in mind, Meta Knight needs to lose the reverse shuttle loop freebie back to the stage, lose glide attack and have very little vertical recovery on tornado (tornado could compensate by being able to stall and then continue in the air.) Zard could get glide attack getting nerfed so that it is tradeable, while eating projectiles would be fair.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

My Diddy and Dedede game is being compromized? Dammit.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Wow, there are like just 4 characters with great recoveries (,,, ). The rest have serious weak points to them, but I guess with the Xanadu Weekly and TKBreezy saying things like "Deep Kong" as a mixed joke and people taking his word for it, this has happened. I hope the "tweaks" aren't that harmful to gameplay for the characters.