Project: I (Would You Play It?)

[LiteralGrill]

It really seems like I just need to get a strong group together and go for it. Sadly I can only do basics, but with some work I could at least get a great round of stages, make some character adjustments, and keep the team organized.

Now to get enough volunteers...

 

[Sangoku]

I meant wall combo's won't be common because there would be so many wall-less stages. Dreamland technically has walls but the situations in which they could be used are much less than Hyrule for example. Maybe di'ing into the wall while recovering could lead straight into wall tech, which could be pretty annoying i suppose. Whether it has a big impact or not still not a fan.

Well in the current state DI that makes you hit the stage while recovering is pretty much useless (ie resulting in you dying anyway), so if it is changed with wall tech that will have a big impact

 

[clubbadubba]

Well in the current state DI that makes you hit the stage while recovering is pretty much useless (ie resulting in you dying anyway), so if it is changed with wall tech that will have a big impact

yea i just was thinking you wouldn't be able to di into a wall tech, though I don't know why I thought that now....

It really seems like I just need to get a strong group together and go for it. Sadly I can only do basics, but with some work I could at least get a great round of stages, make some character adjustments, and keep the team organized.

Now to get enough volunteers...

I am down to do something, but I have literally 0 experience in 'hacking' or whatever needs to be done to make this happen. I have a pretty good amount of computer science experience though, so if you could somehow give me an idea of where to start then I'd be able to help out.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I am down to do something, but I have literally 0 experience in 'hacking' or whatever needs to be done to make this happen. I have a pretty good amount of computer science experience though, so if you could somehow give me an idea of where to start then I'd be able to help out.

I'll see if I can cook something up for explanations on Brawl hacking for you and Madao as you want to help, we can always do our best to learn on the fly. Maybe I can hunt down at least one experienced guy to help out too. (Or someone will volunteer.)

 

[Sedda]

Don't jump the gun guys. Wall teching and spot dodges should not be implemented (at first, at least). Just make sure you have something that resembles 64 the most, and then go from there if you want to make changes.

ALSO
Wouldn't this be a good opportunity to change landing attack hitboxes somehow and make Z cancelling a GOOD mechanic? As in making it so that it's advantageous at times to not Z cancel. PM is never going to do anything like that, so why not try it with 64?

 

[mixa]

good idea, also

make pikachu have normal aerials and auto cancel aerials
but when you z-cancel an auto cancel aerial, you get the lag

and make it so each time you load a game with pikachu, it randomizes each of his aerials, some would be normal, others will auto cancel

if pika dittos, make the game put a 4 minute timer, once time's up, pikachus lose their hats and become identical, and another 1 minute timer goes up, once that is done, pikachu will transform into pichu (on 64 he'll get 5% per input) till the end of the match

 

[Sedda]

if pika dittos, make the game put a 4 minute timer, once time's up, pikachus lose their hats and become identical, and another 1 minute timer goes up, once that is done, pikachu will transform into pichu (on 64 he'll get 5% per input) till the end of the match

No joke, this sounded like a Yu-Gi-Oh trap card description lol

 

[bloodpeach]

Isn't that how it already is in brawl? Or are you saying we should keep it that way?


What do you mean by hitstun/shield likely wouldn't work? At least in SSB64, hitstun is simply floor(initial knockback / 1.875) and hitlag (which i believe is the same as shield stun) is floor(Damage / 3 + 5). Only way movesets effect these is by effect, damage, and knockback. To my knowledge, there's no specific variable inside of the moveset data for hitlag and hitstun. I'm sure it's also formula based in Brawl as well.

Also I know the physics are different in Brawl, but I was just saying how it's interesting how much stuff they kept the same (like electric attacks increasing hitlag by 1.5x). It's not hard to check the in game data anyway. I just hope my laptop can run dolphin, if you guys actually decide to work on this project.

Oh so if we recreate all the knockbacks we get hitstun for free? Ballin'

There are def a lot of things they kept the same, but I feel like there's a tendency to underestimate the amount o work that this project would take. There's a reason it has failed two (afaik) times before and why there are so many problems affecting P:M. But if a group of people decide to seriously start working on it, count me in.

 

[Madao]

In order for this to work, there needs to be enough people involved and also determination. There is a lack of information about SSB64 so we will need to get more info to understand the game mechanics so we can copy it over to Brawl.

If I see that enough people decide to work on this, I will start looking into Brawl hacking. I'll have to put other things on hold though ;/. This could be a good opportunity for me to learn PPC Assembly.

Also, did the makers of Project M post any of their code? If you look at their code, you can easily remove some of brawl's features like tripping. Has anyone here ever used Dolphins debugger? I tried googling it, and I see a lot of people saying it's really slow.

We should look at any examples we can find of brawl mods (and I don't mean art work / textures). I know moveset hacking isn't too difficult (aside from animation). The challenge will be taking out things like wall teching and other changes. For physics, if worst comes to worst, we can modify the multipliers (not perfect, but probably good enough).

For now I'll continue collecting data on SSB64. We need some people to collect data, and some people figuring out how to do the art work.

 

[bloodpeach]

I made this a while ago as a organized repository of ideas and codes i found lying around. feel free to edit if you have a google account.

http://bit.ly/projectISAI

 

[Zenyore]

I made this a while ago as a organized repository of ideas and codes i found lying around. feel free to edit if you have a google account.

http://bit.ly/projectISAI

Cool, I might add my 10 cents to this later after school

 

[LiteralGrill]

Sounds like this is really gonna happen!

regaurding getting code, I doubt the people from Project M would be adverse to giving us some samples of things like removing tripping and such, it may just be laying around these forums or in the Brawl Vault anyways for looking at along with some other code.

 

[breakthrough]

he might've said that because stick jump goes higher than c button jump in 64, whereas stick jump is same height as x/y jumps in melee/brawl

Interesting, I wasn't aware that there was a difference in melee vs 64 stick jump, but I was thinking as more of an escape technique.

leaving (forward+b) in might be pretty cool. It would give a lot of characters more recovery options so their might not be so many gimptastic matchups.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, being able to get another jump from Falcon's down-b would be useful, but something to think: does down b take your further down than would benefit you from getting a jump+upb again? Or would that be coded so that it does benefit you if it were to be implemented?

I'd rather not have them. Wall teching won't matter because with all the extra stages wall teching won't be a big deal. Spot dodging would be a pretty significant change. Not a deal breaker, but I'd avoid adding in overarching movement tech additions like spot dodging, wave dashing, power shielding, air dodging, etc.

Are you able to wall tech in melee/brawl from a throw? If so, it would GREATLY reduce some characters' tent camping abilities, and I personally think those are some of the most awesome combos (plus the tavo combo that ends in FP after a uair to bounce off the tent wouldn't work). I'm terrible at the tent at the moment so I'm not too in favor of going down there anyway, just some thoughts. Could someone explain what spot dodging is? Is it like aerial dodging where you press R/L to dodge an attack? If so, I'd be against it if we're making it similar to 64.

 

[Sangoku]

Are you able to wall tech in melee/brawl from a throw? If so, it would GREATLY reduce some characters' tent camping abilities, and I personally think those are some of the most awesome combos (plus the tavo combo that ends in FP after a uair to bounce off the tent wouldn't work). I'm terrible at the tent at the moment so I'm not too in favor of going down there anyway, just some thoughts. Could someone explain what spot dodging is? Is it like aerial dodging where you press R/L to dodge an attack? If so, I'd be against it if we're making it similar to 64.

Yeah, you could tech that. That shouldn't be too much of a problem because, as clubba said, there will be enough stages so that we almost drop off Hyrule completely. I still think it would be bad because of ledge DI. Spot dodging is pressing down while shielding. The character makes a little dodging animation and has a blue-type invincible hitbox (dunno if the colour system is the same in the other games, but that's what it would be in 64).

 

[tehz]

I'm happy to see someone is trying to make mod again. It seems to be a huge undertaking, as the other two (plus?) attempts didn't even get out of the "barely-beginning-basically-embryonic-development" stage.

I made this a while ago as a organized repository of ideas and codes i found lying around. feel free to edit if you have a google account.

http://bit.ly/projectISAI

Another code to add from the old Brawl 64 thread:

No Trajectory DI [Magus]
04B88524 00000000

Edit: also

No Meteor Canceling [Standardtoaster]
04FB3EAC 00020000

 

[Fireblaster]

Also please don't call this project Isai. It's incredibly obnoxious and doesn't really make sense.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Also please don't call this project Isai. It's incredibly obnoxious and doesn't really make sense.

It was mostly a joke to start the thread off, I'd pick something better for sure.

 

[clubbadubba]

call it project clubba

 

[KnitePhox]

wall techs are wildly more disruptive than spot dodges, i think spot dodges would be fine because they can't get you out of combos like wall techs/jump

 

[clubbadubba]

I had pretty much exclusively played 64 in terms of smash games (seriously at least) until about a month ago when I played Project M with A$ for a number of sessions. Spot dodge was one of the weirdest things to me and made a pretty big difference in the neutral game to me. I think its an awesome tech that opens up a lot more options in the neutral game (or acts as another way to counter approaches), but its a pretty big difference in terms of how the neutral game plays out.

 

[Madao]

Good news is a lot of codes are already known.
I found these codes in the other thread.

No smash charging [Standardtoaster]
04FB2A10 0000002C
04FB2C28 0000002E
04FB2D10 00000032
 
No air/spot dodging [Standardtoaster]
04FB18F4 00020000
04FB18FC 00020000
06FC2068 00000018
00020000 00000000
00020000 00000000
00020000 00000000
 
No side special [Standardtoaster]
04B88380 40000000
 
No wall/ceiling tech [Standardtoaster]
04FB3EC4 00020000
04FB3ECC 00020000
 
Powershield Window Modifier [spunit262]
04B88F20 00000000

 

[LiteralGrill]

That's awesome! If we honestly have a good bit already made for us that'll be very helpful.

 

[Sedda]

Project Fireblaster: The Contrarian

-edit: I saw the google doc, and I honestly think that mechanics that can alter basic movement the way it's done in 64 should not be implemented (aka adding ff DURING an aerial), though that could be just me.

Also, are there situations where shield dropping is not a good option vs just dropping through platforms normally? Wouldn't that fall into the same category as Z cancelling? Maybe you could modify that too so that it's not just a matter of speed and there's a tradeoff between shield-dropping or not.

 

[mixa]

how is spot dodging weird

it's just like a roll that goes nowhere

i've seen isai do that

 

[clubbadubba]

Also, are there situations where shield dropping is not a good option vs just dropping through platforms normally? Wouldn't that fall into the same category as Z cancelling? Maybe you could modify that too so that it's not just a matter of speed and there's a tradeoff between shield-dropping or not.

If your standing, it only makes sense to shield drop. However if you're running to the edge on PC top platform and crouch right as you get to the ledge, you will cancel the dash lag and go into a crouch right on the ledge instead of dropping through the platform.

how is spot dodging weird

it's just like a roll that goes nowhere

i've seen isai do that

lulz. But seriously it just makes it that much harder to approach in a game that is already hard enough to approach in.

 

[banze]

I would like to try them both

a game EXACTLY like 64.
and one with the changes discussed here

probably the first one better

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

spotdodges disrupt plat drops

 

[mixa]

spotdodges disrupt plat drops

holy **** that's true. when i played keyboard melee I could not shield drop.

 

[Kati]

I bet you could downgrade the graphics back to the original, that'd be curious...

I do agree that it would be MUCH easier to balance a smaller cast, I don't think if this was done they should go the Project M route with so many characters and make sure the original cast was PERFECT before adding in new guys.

ssb64 models exist for every ssb64 vet, plus others like lucas. All ssb64 stages have been replicated to an extent.

Project 64 is very doable.

 

[Sangoku]

How about removing respawn invincibility frames? Or at least make it a lot shorter?

 

[KnitePhox]

the P:M version of hyrule is too small and way off the original scale

i think DL feels weird on PM as well, the proportions are not too equivalent (same goes for melee's DL)

 

[LiteralGrill]

ssb64 models exist for every ssb64 vet, plus others like lucas. All ssb64 stages have been replicated to an extent.

Project 64 is very doable.

Project 64 sadly is already another project in existence...

So we have to have another name. If it's true that we could find 64 models it'd be kinda cool, but I'm considering trying to keep "true to the era" if possible by not having characters that didn't exist before the N64 era (which only means messing with like, 4 characters) and trying to make somes moves for them to make more sense for games of the era if possible. (Though this is the dream of if I can fill the entire Brawl roster.)

How about removing respawn invincibility frames? Or at least make it a lot shorter?

Totally removing it would be weird, but I'm not against shortening it.

 

[clubbadubba]

Shorter respawn would be great. On dreamland in 64 its a skill to escape those invincibility frames, kind of silly.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Okay, we do seem to have a small base of people willing to try and do this.

Pick out a good names guys, and I can make up a social group so we can get to serious work!

 

[clubbadubba]

Project 0

10 Project 0

 

[KnitePhox]

Project OG
Project Six Four
Project Granddaddy
Project N(ostalgia)
Project '99
Project Classic
Project Flashback

mite have more names later, who knows

i like OG, N and 99 more than the others

 

[LiteralGrill]

Project 0

10 Project 0

Why Project 0 ?

-​

GOT IT!

Project Reality!

Think about it, the N64's codename during development!

 

[clubbadubba]

Project 0 as in Ground 0, where if all came from.

If we called it Project OG, people would call it POG for short, not horrible.

Project Dragon King, the original intended name for smash 64.

 

[B-Town]

Project 64 sadly is already another project in existence...

So we have to have another name. If it's true that we could find 64 models it'd be kinda cool, but I'm considering trying to keep "true to the era" if possible by not having characters that didn't exist before the N64 era (which only means messing with like, 4 characters) and trying to make somes moves for them to make more sense for games of the era if possible. (Though this is the dream of if I can fill the entire Brawl roster.)




Totally removing it would be weird, but I'm not against shortening it.

Depends what you mean by existed during the N64 era. Do you mean not adding any characters besides the original 12 smashers or characters that existed at that time because I'm fairly certain all of the brawlers have been around since before the N64. I also personally think adding new characters would be the coolest part of this project.

 

[clubbadubba]

yo anyone who can glide get rid of that ****. So OP