Project: I (Would You Play It?)

[LiteralGrill]

We've all heard of Project M at this point, and I've seen various post around that were very small mentioning how interesting it would be to have something similar but to try and emulate Smash 64 as its model.

So, if some people were crazy enough to mod Brawl so it would play as close to Smash 64 as possible, would you play it?

(P.S. Another poll I know...)

 

[Cobrevolution]

i'd rather play 64 with fixed balance issues to be honest.

 

[LiteralGrill]

i'd rather play 64 with fixed balance issues to be honest.

I'd assume balance would happen to get characters on the right track kinda like Project M did.

 

[Sedda]

I would play it. Sounds fun

 

[bloodpeach]

Me and Near have been toying with this idea or a while now, but we've never actually gotten to the point of making new codes or PSA's.

At smashtoberfest I brought it up and a lot of people gave some cool feedback. I think people would play it, but it certainly would never overtake TRUE 64.

 

[MrMarbles]

one that felt like 64 but with every character having a good recovery and SAMUS COMBOS would be cool id play

 

[Madao]

I'd definitely play it, but I think it would be much easier to just hack SSB64. Either way sounds good to me though.

 

[Cobrevolution]

I'd assume balance would happen to get characters on the right track kinda like Project M did.

i meant i'd rather play a modified 64 itself as opposed to brawl with 64 gameplay and physics

 

[LiteralGrill]

i meant i'd rather play a modified 64 itself as opposed to brawl with 64 gameplay and physics

So the better looking graphics thing isn't a deal to you? Or more characters?

I do admit, I'd love to have a larger cast.

 

[Sedda]

yeah larger cast would be cool to experiment and **** around

 

[weedwack]

Give ness pikachus' recovery and also get rid of all his hurtboxes.

Switch samus' and Kirby's uptilts.

And there you have it, the games balanced.

For seriously though, i would check out something like this but would probably not take it too seriously. I think a lot of us are smash purists who would never embrace a remake.

 

[LiteralGrill]

For seriously though, i would check out something like this but would probably not take it too seriously. I think a lot of us are smash purists who would never embrace a remake.

That might be the kicker, though Project M did make it, who knows?

 

[Cobrevolution]

So the better looking graphics thing isn't a deal to you? Or more characters?

personally, i don't like the graphics in melee and brawl at all. cleaning things up in 64 a bit would be alright, but other than that...shudder.

as for more characters, i'm okay with twelve. don't get me wrong, it'd be cool to have bowser and mewtwo, as was the plan, right, but i'm not too put out over their absence. also i feel that you can balance a smaller cast easier than a larger one - look at the gap between meta knight and everyone else in brawl...

For seriously though, i would check out something like this but would probably not take it too seriously. I think a lot of us are smash purists who would never embrace a remake.

but if ness didn't suck would you play it exclusively

 

[KeroKeroppi]

 

[LiteralGrill]

personally, i don't like the graphics in melee and brawl at all. cleaning things up in 64 a bit would be alright, but other than that...shudder.

as for more characters, i'm okay with twelve. don't get me wrong, it'd be cool to have bowser and mewtwo, as was the plan, right, but i'm not too put out over their absence. also i feel that you can balance a smaller cast easier than a larger one - look at the gap between meta knight and everyone else in brawl...

I bet you could downgrade the graphics back to the original, that'd be curious...

I do agree that it would be MUCH easier to balance a smaller cast, I don't think if this was done they should go the Project M route with so many characters and make sure the original cast was PERFECT before adding in new guys.

 

[bloodpeach]

@Madao I feel like modding 64 is a much bigger challenege. For brawl the moveset/hitbox/etc data is all easily accessible and modifiable and a nice set of tools has already been developed. For 64 we'd have to redo all of that from scratch. I don't think anybody has ever looked into the internal file layout of ssb64 on the level required for a rom hack.

Whatever happens, the project is gonna be doomed to the fat of P:M. A very small group of players may take it seriously, but everyone else will view it as a fun side game.

Edit: @Capps are you actually working on (or thinking about) making one?

 

[LiteralGrill]

Edit: @Capps are you actually working on (or thinking about) making one?

I'm not the best hacker, but I can't lie I've been thinking this one over for a while, I could always get better working on a project.

I've poked the idea around to random people too and they seem to like the concept.

Though yes I have the feeling if it were to exist it would have the problems of P:M too.

 

[Madao]

@Madao I feel like modding 64 is a much bigger challenege. For brawl the moveset/hitbox/etc data is all easily accessible and modifiable and a nice set of tools has already been developed. For 64 we'd have to redo all of that from scratch. I don't think anybody has ever looked into the internal file layout of ssb64 on the level required for a rom hack.

You do have a point. I was mostly thinking of making small changes (physics and movesets). It really depends how similar you want it to be to the original and how much you want to mod it. Like if you wanted to add stages or characters, then modding brawl would be a much better solution. On the other hand, it would take a ton of effort to copy all the obscure things in SSB64 (assuming anyone cares lol). So basically making small changes are easier on N64 game, and big changes are easier in Brawl.

How much work would it take to completely change the game mechanics in Brawl? Like adding L canceling and other things.

I'm mostly interested in modding the character physics and movesets and I also want to be able to ledge grab when facing the wrong way. I could probably hack SSB64 if I knew how decompress and unpack files.

If enough people are interested in working on this project, I'll be glad to help.

 

[LiteralGrill]

There is a good thought, do you want an EXACT copy of everything 64 or something with small improvements here and there like they did with P:M?

 

[Madao]

There is a good thought, do you want an EXACT copy of everything 64 or something with small improvements here and there like they did with P:M?

It's a tough choice to make because people like different things. Me personally, I liked how in melee you could reflect projectiles with shield if timed correctly. I also liked how in brawl, you could grab the ledge even if you are facing the wrong way. Adding things like that would be cool. Wall teching is also cool. Air dodging is questionable (I like it, but not sure if other people would want it).
I think most people would actually prefer small improvements, but the difficult part is figuring out what everyone else agrees with / wants.

 

[bloodpeach]

The nice thing about modding brawl is that in addition to a nice modeding framework, some of the work has already been done. L cancelling has already been done in P:M and a couple of other minor tweaks are floating around too. It would still be a lot of work though, especially for some of the really small physics stuff like teleports.

I think most people would actually prefer small improvements, but the difficult part is figuring out what everyone else agrees with / wants.

This is it.

 

[ballin4life]

some of the work has already been done. L cancelling has already been done in P:M

it just never ends. i guess some things will never change ...

 

[asianaussie]

lmao

i've kind of missed you ballin

and you too SK wherever you are

 

[clubbadubba]

I would 100% be down with this. The extra characters and stages would be amazing, and the fact that you could actually control balance is awesome. You could also keep some of the stuff like side B attacks as long as the overall physics matched up.

Yea if this happened of course people would all want different things in the game, but you can't please everyone. Just make it how you'd want to make it, though I suggest if this happens you work closely with people from our community to ensure you get all the minor details of 64 physics as well as for help on balance. Sounds great though!

 

[bloodpeach]

ballin... are you making fun of me

 

[Doomolish]

Give it a try! The more people like it, the more they'll play it.

 

[Mr. Happy :)]

I would play the hell out of this. Especially if there were new stages (or just add battlefield&FD)

 

[Fireblaster]

Whoever would make it would probably do something really stupid like keep manual Lcancelling in the game so I'd never take it seriously.

 

[MrMarbles]

Whoever would make it would probably do something really stupid like keep manual Lcancelling in the game so I'd never take it seriously.

well there's z-canceling in 64 so i don't see what the big deal is

 

[clubbadubba]

ballin... are you making fun of me

he's referring to l-cancelling being a superfluous tech skill, but that's another story

this isn't going to be a z-cancel discussion thread now right? Let's focus on this potentially awesome project!

 

[LiteralGrill]

Hmm... This seems like possibly a worthwhile project, start with the original cast have some new stages and try to stay accurate as possible, then add from there.

I'm down to try if some other hackers would step in to help.

 

[MrMarbles]

Hmm... This seems like possibly a worthwhile project, start with the original cast have some new stages and try to stay accurate as possible, then add from there.

I'm down to try if some other hackers would step in to help.

you could potentially do some really awesome things like fix our jank ass stages. That alone would make it worth it

 

[LiteralGrill]

you could potentially do some really awesome things like fix our jank *** stages. That alone would make it worth it

It's true, better stage selection would be awesome to have at a minimum.

 

[Fireblaster]

well there's z-canceling in 64 so i don't see what the big deal is

Kirby's Uptilt, Pikachu's upB, Link's upB, and ness's upB are also in 64. Does that mean you'd also keep them the same in this remake without changing how they work too?

 

[MrMarbles]

Kirby's Uptilt, Pikachu's upB, Link's upB, and ness's upB are also in 64. Does that mean you'd also keep them the same in this remake without changing how they work too?

those are all balancing issues. z-canceling is not a balancing issue

 

[Sangoku]

Yeah let's not hijack this thread into a z-cancel discussion please. Although that fact alone should mean the abortion of the project since no consensus will ever be reached...

 

[clubbadubba]

lol.

Capps if you do this just don't worry about consensus, or really any of the bickering that will inevitably occur here. I suggest you get a small group of good players within our community who you can talk with to figure out what exactly you should add. Catering to the masses just won't work with this

 

[Fireblaster]

those are all balancing issues. z-canceling is not a balancing issue

So just because it doesn't have to do anything with specific character balance means it's okay to leave in stupid mechanics?

Would you also keep shield release buffering? Accidental Non-smashed up smashes? These are mechanics that have nothing to do with balance of specific characters and can simply hurt the players while contributing nothing to the game.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Capps if you do this just don't worry about consensus, or really any of the bickering that will inevitably occur here. I suggest you get a small group of good players within our community who you can talk with to figure out what exactly you should add. Catering to the masses just won't work with this

I'll keep that in mind.

Also as this was asked in a social thread when mentioned, do you want to use Brawl graphiccs or not? Some people thought it would be cool to still have the old school look while others where liking the idea of using the newer stuff in Brawl, thoughts?

I'm thinking of keeping some of the same sounds if I can though, for sure the intro would have the famous


SSSSSSSSSSSUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPEEEEEEEERRRRRRRR SSMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASH BROOOOOOOOOOOOTHERRRRRRS!

 

[Madao]

Hmm... This seems like possibly a worthwhile project, start with the original cast have some new stages and try to stay accurate as possible, then add from there.

I'm down to try if some other hackers would step in to help.

Keep us updated then. I'm not too familiar with Power PC Assembly, but I could at the very least, help with providing the SSB64 formulas / data. Also it wouldn't be too hard for me to learn how to hack brawl.

Also as this was asked in a social thread when mentioned, do you want to use Brawl graphiccs or not? Some people thought it would be cool to still have the old school look while others where liking the idea of using the newer stuff in Brawl, thoughts?

I'm thinking of keeping some of the same sounds if I can though, for sure the intro would have the famous

Well I'd prefer brawl graphics, but how will you do the graphics for added/changed moves? Also how would you use n64 graphics? I don't think anyone has decompressed and unpacked SSB64 yet. I liked SSB64's sounds though. Captain Falcon sounded awesome.