Problems against Marth...

[MattTheGameFreak]

I've been playing Roy for most of my Melee career and I've overcome many rivals or friends against their mains. One example being that one friend of mine maned Young Link. I failed to defeat him for a while but I've figured out the key to unlock Young Link's demise now or at least, I believe. Its been a while since I've played him.

Now, my newest true rival is a Marth user that happens to be counter happy with alt most accuracy of knowing when to use it. Therefore, I come here for help as my ability to defeat him as Roy is diminishing at a very quick pace. Mainly because of counter though as I can lock him in five to seven consecutive attacks but he just counters out of it.

Its very hard to explain but I imagine that Roy users who play against people who man Marth, know my nightmare.

Its kind of sick as Marth seems to have a longer reach, faster attacks -- meaning a much faster counter in which last longer than Roy's and for whatever reason, can take more damage. As he can potentially KO my Roy around 110% while it takes me 140% to 200% to kill him for example. However, thats not always the case but it kind of is at the same time as I can truly finish him off with counters as he counters out in which means, I can't use truly strong attacks due to the danger of easy KO because of Marth's counter being so fast and lasting so long.

What do you guys think?

 

[Prince Of Fire]

I think you should stop using Roy and for a couple of reasons

Marth does have longer reach
Marth is faster
Marth koes at lower percentages
marth has faster moves
marth runs faster
marth has a better sweet spot (tip as opposed to the center of the blade)
Marth has two spikes (his third B move tilted down and his dair)
marth has better aerials


Roy-
His spammed B move is better thats about it.

Marth is faster and better than you...My friend Ryan used to main Roy but then he realized Marth IS Better and that I was always owning him because marths sweet spot is easier to pull off than roys and his comboing/juggling ability is just that much better. Ditch Roy...plain and simple man. If you want to stick with him, so be it but it will take you longer to get good with roy than it will that of Marth.

in terms of strategy always roll INTO marth as opposed to away to avoid his blade due to his sweet spot at the tip. Stay in close and in tight with Roy.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Prince of Fire's right, a good Marth will always beat a good Roy.

If you want to beat a Marth, you'll need mindgames.

That means if you throw him off the stage, anticipate the double jump so you can fsmash him back. You can try to catch him in a DI trap with throws into fsmashes as well.

You don't always want to roll into Marth though, he can just hit you with a softspot to push you out of his reach and then follow up from there. Try spotdodging and grabbing instead.

Really, Marth's Counter should not be a problem. He has faster moves that combo better. Personally, I'd rather get Countered than fair'd.

 

[Prince Of Fire]

Yeah, true...you do not want to get predictable with the rolls and destroy the mindgame but more often than not it is better to get hit with the center of his blade...depending on percentages, marths d tilt may or may not be effective.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Dtilt is very effective, the other thing is to try and mimic his own style against him. It may sound crazy, but it really works. Not all of it, but just hit him with a combo that he might do. (I'm speaking from experience. It worked against M2K, lol). Marth IS a better character, all in all. So you're going to have to be better, than him. Mind games are your best options, and grabbing him. Roy has good grabs, so make use of them.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Also, if you keep Marth above you, it severely limits his options. Remember, you have a Counter too. If you notice a trend in his attacks (always descends with a dair, always gets up from the ledge with an attack) then hit him with it. It'll make him wary.

See if you can pulsewalk/dash dance/wavedance and bait out an attack from him, then wavedash/dash in and grab him. You can also try shield canceling a dash/shield dashing into a shieldgrab.

 

[Prince Of Fire]

Hey guys, what is shield cancelling, shine cancelling and jump canceling??? I know l cancelling and how to shield grab but how do you do these and what are the pros to them???? I never use this stuff or maybe i do but i dont know the term....

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Shield canceling I think is just hitting shield while dashing. It's not a big deal.

Shine canceling... I dunno... using shine to cancel your momentum? You can do that for recoveries or shine canceling your jump so you don't leave the ground.

Jump canceling can refer to jumping straight out of a shield or out of a shine, or it can also refer to using the jump to cancel a dash so you can use a standing grab from a dash or a usmash. I guess you could use it to describe jumping out of a shield and usmashing that way for a usmash out of shield.

 

[ShadowBlitz]

Yeah most people consider Marth to be a better character. Roy is pretty good too, he just takes way longer to master than Marth.

 

[Jonneh]

Crouch cancel, cos it will help u. I play roy a lil bit, and crouch canceling helps for me when i play a marth, cos marth can ko @ low damages

 

[Rain(ame)]

Um, the problem with CCing is that it can be dangerous against Marth's Fsmash. Plus, if the Marth is smart enough he can just grab you with that ridiculous range of his. It's good at low % but don't rely on it during higher ones, unless your reaction time and tech skill is up there. Because if it's not, you'll find yourself rolling to the edge and falling fast. You should also use plenty of mindgames. Play your Roy as fast as you can. Shorthop forward, fastfall, waveland backwards. You could Waveland forward into Dtilt. You have options, but you really have to know Roy. Elvenarro3000 pretty much said that, though, lol.


"Crank that Roy"

 

[BlackTulip]

Hmm.. I feel your pain of playing against Marths with Roy.
What I like to do is Land a Dtilt following his OverB (end with the down B) and That set's him up for a Dash Attack or Fair or w/e. (depending on %).

But Once you get Marth of the edge with Roy, Marth is doomed if he misses a sweet spot on the ledge once.

 

[exarch]

Actually full hopping dairs after dtilts against marth tends to send him forward (in that weird forwards hitting section of the sword), and can be used to chase him up and down platforms. I don't think fair has enough stun time for it to work like that.

 

[KirbyKaze]

grab a lot and try to chase him with f-smash or d-tilt --> combo to build damage. basically just do what he's trying to do to you only his stuff will be better. cc mispaced crap into grab, d-tilt and chase him, etc.

to edgeguard him just do the lightshield thing and ledgedash --> f-smash over and over again. or just f-smash him outright. or ledge hop dair --> f-smash. or something. really, i'm just listing things that roys do against me when i play marth that are annoying.

or, alternatively, pick sheik and run around throwing needles from platforms, grab him into some 2-3 hit combo and then when he's off the stage kick him and do the lightshield trick and make him dead a lot.

 

[Vodage]

I think you should go look up "Tier List" on SmashWiki. Just saying.

 

[neon..?]

everyone has problem with marth