(Private) Vengeful Mafia!

[mentosman8]

Haha shouldn't we have, ya know, some discussion before we decide to start making decisions? Right now you're going on nothing but gut feeling as there has been absolutely no serious discussion. Why are you so eager to lynch me or tom and shoot the other if the lynch is town?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

because i'd actually like to play the game and think at least one of you is scum

 

[KevinM]

40 percent chance you're right. 60 percent chance you're wrong.

I'm tempted to vote you, the game is basically on the line from the get go.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

hm

i thought you were town since you sided with tom like you usually do as town and was the only one bothered by his uncharacteristic omgus. right now i'm willing to bet the game that you are and i prefer mentos over frozen because frankly i find frozen's reaction more townish than mentos'

and if we lose oh well. you made yourself look more town than the actual townies did

 

[KevinM]

That sells me.

Vote: Marshy

This type of game makes my vote seem like I'm hammering every time. If I'm right, you can't shoot back and we should be fine.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

wo w

 

[#HBC | marshy]

QUESTION TOM FOR ONCE

you are always defending him in these games and if you're really town this time it's probably gonna cost us

not sure who i'll shoot. i expected that to sway you

 

[KevinM]

Good defense, I can't but a read on you.

But as I've stated since the beginning. Tom will think before he chooses to lynch.

Same with Frozen.

Mentos as well I assume.

You however are extremly dangerous with your push and shoot method. Especially because you're trying to control who to shoot without any discussion.

Again if you're wrong on either count you put us at a 16.7 percent chance to win the game, and that relies on a 50 50 shot of hitting the mafia with a vig kill.

You realize scum hunting is infinitely more valuable in this case. by lynching a mafia goon we up our ability to win the game to 75 percent, and if we lynch the godfather 100 percent obviously.

Mafia's best play in this game is a quick lynch your play looking for a quick lynch and shoot of two different players is ideal for mafia and therefore I'm comfortable with my vote.

Even if you're right on the other count you have left us a 33 percent chance to lynch the Godfather on D2.

 

[KevinM]

Also I'm even stronger towards my lynch with you because you keep buddying me with Tom.

Marshy, you can't keep assuming I try and ride the curtails of Tom, I'm putting a lot of thought into this game. And I know the percentages, I'm using my head to procure the safest option for a town win.

I'd rather scumhunt then sit on a possible wrong lynch and get a 50 50 shot to lose the game instantly.

I find it utterly ridiculous that you would tell me to question Tom when you are the current most suspicious player to me, I'm not buddying on Tom, in my mind I'm making the correct play.

 

[KevinM]

One last thing I don't think any of my posts have been directed towards defending Tom, I've stated in one post that I think all three of the other players have a play style that would be more effective in this game and in fact your defense as a whole has seemed rather futile and scummy. So I feel that by lynching you I put us at a 75 percent chance of winning.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i'm not reckless in an endgame scenario. i'm not sure what else to tell you or how you came to that conclusion? yes i did stick my neck out this game and don't really regret it since my ToMentos attack is the only thing that's stirred up any kind of discussion. what's making you think i'm reckless in an endgame scenario? bim? aimafia?

as for defending tom. you commented on tom's strange omgus yourself and go after me instead. he's often preaching in these games about omgus and the like and you're overlooking that because i threw a grenade in a boring game where nothing was happening

and i did think you were town but this attack is kind of hard for me to believe. i'm not buddying you with him in so much as he is buddying with me. that is, if he's scum he's definitely setting me up to be lynched in an endgame scenario. i don't think you guys are partners right now but am worried that you'll follow him way too much in an endgame scenario because you seem to be pretty trusting of tom in these games from what i've seen. tmnt where it was the right call, and bim where it nearly ended up hurting us a lot with you considering a ronike kill over him

from my pov you came off as most townie. tom's omgus is just suspicious and you being the only person to point it out earns points. i figure if we lynch mentos (who's probably not goon since tom's play is textbook for one) and kill mentos, then we'll probably have frozen. that's not to say i'd vote him immediately when the Day comes but that i'd much rather be in an endgame with you guys instead of non-committal mentos and OMGUS'ing tom. there has not been a single game where i haven't found mentos hard to trust

 

[#HBC | marshy]

and kill mentos, then we'll probably have frozen.

that should be "and kill tom" should mentos flip town

 

[KevinM]

Before I read over and respond to the rest of this post, I have to continue to point out that this is basically an endgame situation.

Our lynch and if needed vig kill decide if we win or lose this game. I don't want to leave my win up to chance where as your completely willing to let it ride on those two. If I lynch you and I'm wrong at this point I would certainly feel Tom is the correct play but you'd probably shoot him or mentos anyways. So it would either lose us the game or D2 would be starting over.

Frozen has been rather quiet as well I'd like to hear what he thinks about this whole situation since he seems to be the only one who isn't on a chopping block of some sort.

 

[Tom]

unvote

will read later

 

[Tom]

lynch tom shoot mentos or vice versa

definitely not enough talking for you to have a decent hunch, even accounting for your normal vengeful play.

Tom's OMGUS is a rare sight however.

i dont see it as an OMGUS as much as it is a counter-vote. His post saying we should shoot me or Mentos was literally his first post. I told him that there has not been enough talking for him to have a decent hunch, even accounting for how he plays AIM vengeful. There hasn't been. That was literally his first post. You can see now that he has been noting his ToMentos 1st post assertion was a grenade that he threw into the game, sticking out his neck so that the game would get interesting/going. That is very true, only because of the fact that its almost baseless and nobody likes baseless things.

i slept on it before i decided to vote on him or not. Marshy is really good in these games and his playstyle is hard to pin down and very variable. Sometimes I don't even follow his train of thought and sometimes he admits that he himself is just simply confused @ the game. However, to me it currently feels like he is being concise and deciding that he completely has the lynch down right now because he is mafia and he is just falling back on his playstye.

marshy later call's my "OMGUS strange." its not strange at all. i think he is wrong and i think he is acting too soon but i also think theres a reason for it. with 5 players in the game, completely disallowing myself from using a counter-vote as strategy because of OMGUS reactions would just be stupid.

Tom seems to be enjoying pushing Marshy's buttons this game. Poking fun at the NL thing, and now dismissing his suspicions as more or less "spam's gut" crock. Not sure what to make of this lol.

Marshy are you just trying to push his buttons back or what? And where's the connection between Tom and mentos?

That was not my intention at all. The NL thing simply stems from the fact that he hates NL and I thought it would be funny. But yes, his suspicions are garbs.

kevin i wouldn't quicklynch if the game was on the line

that's blatant

unvote tom vote mentos

shoot tom if town. think he may be buddying up to me for an easy lynch later. the goon would do that

you think that I may be buddying up to YOU for an easy lynch? And what do you mean the goon would do it, wouldn't you rather try to hunt for the godfather?

because i'd actually like to play the game and think at least one of you is scum

you are so very rushed. we are also playing the game. it just takes time for this to develop into an actual discussion. to me it feels like you are making assertions based on the pregame "And they all live happily ever after" joke.

hm

i thought you were town since you sided with tom like you usually do as town and was the only one bothered by his uncharacteristic omgus. right now i'm willing to bet the game that you are and i prefer mentos over frozen because frankly i find frozen's reaction more townish than mentos'

and if we lose oh well. you made yourself look more town than the actual townies did

keyword "fozen's reaction" singular because this game has not been long enough for you to be confident in any lynch without being short sighted.

"you made yourself look more town than the actual townies did" is dumb. you seem to be completely done with this game. garbage.

i'm not reckless in an endgame scenario. i'm not sure what else to tell you or how you came to that conclusion? yes i did stick my neck out this game and don't really regret it since my ToMentos attack is the only thing that's stirred up any kind of discussion. what's making you think i'm reckless in an endgame scenario? bim? aimafia?

as for defending tom. you commented on tom's strange omgus yourself and go after me instead. he's often preaching in these games about omgus and the like and you're overlooking that because i threw a grenade in a boring game where nothing was happening

and i did think you were town but this attack is kind of hard for me to believe. i'm not buddying you with him in so much as he is buddying with me. that is, if he's scum he's definitely setting me up to be lynched in an endgame scenario. i don't think you guys are partners right now but am worried that you'll follow him way too much in an endgame scenario because you seem to be pretty trusting of tom in these games from what i've seen. tmnt where it was the right call, and bim where it nearly ended up hurting us a lot with you considering a ronike kill over him

from my pov you came off as most townie. tom's omgus is just suspicious and you being the only person to point it out earns points. i figure if we lynch mentos (who's probably not goon since tom's play is textbook for one) and kill mentos, then we'll probably have frozen. that's not to say i'd vote him immediately when the Day comes but that i'd much rather be in an endgame with you guys instead of non-committal mentos and OMGUS'ing tom. there has not been a single game where i haven't found mentos hard to trust

tl;dr "i used to think that you were a townie but now that you have found me suspicious and aren't focusing on tom you might be mafia"

i'd much rather be in an endgame with you guys instead of non-committal mentos and OMGUS'ing tom.

im sorry, what? didn't you just say a moment ago that OMGUS is strange for me to do? so then why are you basing your endgame picks on the assumption that i would ruin it with OMGUS?

vote: Marshy again

 

[#HBC | marshy]

marshy later call's my "OMGUS strange." its not strange at all. i think he is wrong and i think he is acting too soon but i also think theres a reason for it. with 5 players in the game, completely disallowing myself from using a counter-vote as strategy because of OMGUS reactions would just be stupid.

you can't see why i'd find it questionable? i remember earlier you countervoting me (which i usually don't see you do as scum) to make me doubt myself much more, so when you do it right off the bat i find it hard to believe. especially when you're often going on about how bad omgus is and other fallacies

you think that I may be buddying up to YOU for an easy lynch? And what do you mean the goon would do it, wouldn't you rather try to hunt for the godfather?

yeah. and the goon would do that. you've seen macman do that exact same thing earlier. and i am hunting for the gf, which is why i unvoted you and went to mentos

"you made yourself look more town than the actual townies did" is dumb. you seem to be completely done with this game. garbage.

yeah. am i the only person who doesn't want this game to be long? there's 5 players

tl;dr "i used to think that you were a townie but now that you have found me suspicious and aren't focusing on tom you might be mafia"

kevin's reasoning is crap. it's pretty much "you're gung-ho" despite me always being like that and him assuming that i play the same in endgame the same way i do in early game. that's not the case

im sorry, what? didn't you just say a moment ago that OMGUS is strange for me to do? so then why are you basing your endgame picks on the assumption that i would ruin it with OMGUS?

what. the point is to kill you and mentos because i didn't see that omgus coming from a townie tom

 

[#HBC | marshy]

and no one hammer unless you're scum. i like how kevin and tom both accuse me of rushing the day and then they each put me at -1

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Marshy is aggressive. That's that. I wasn't surprised that he stuck his neck out in order to stir things up. That's typically how he does things, especially as town.

IIRC, the last game I played with him in AIM mafia, he was maf and didn't say a word. He simply waited for someone else to slip and jump on them. Not to metagame too hard here, but his approach here is almost the polar opposite. Right now I'm not getting scum vibes from Marsh; his approach simply doesn't have enough "oomph" to it, so to speak, to come off as a scummy quick lynch push to me. As Kevin said, such an approach is highly reliant on luck, and heavily favors the maf.

I haven't really played enough Venge with Tom to make a judgment call on whether the OMGUS vote is strange or not, and I'm not going to pretend that I have any valid opinion on the matter. However, I will raise this point:

definitely not enough talking for you to have a decent hunch, even accounting for your normal vengeful play.

After going back and re-considering what I felt to be the motive behind this line, it started to come off to me as an initial defense, quickly constructed with a DEFENSIVE, DENIAL RIDDEN mindset. You make a judgment call as if to not only try to convince others, but YOURSELF that there was "not enough talking" for Marshy to have caught on to something. The quickness and short nature of the response leads me to believe that this was a very natural reaction that you didn't put much thought into before posting. Thus, I trust it to be a fair representation of what your subconscious reaction to the vote was.

You appeal to Marshy's past play and argue that despite it (whatever his "normal" play might entail) he couldn't have reached a verdict so fast. What did you mean by this? Are you insinuating that he couldn't have a valid townie driven reason to accuse, and that he's mafia trying to fabricate something? Logically speaking, that's the only explanation that fits your post. He voted. He acted in a powerful manner for some reason. You assert that he couldn't have a "hunch." So you must mean that he's fabricating a reason right? Logically a speaking, this is the simplest conclusion one should arrive at as a town player.

My theory is you simply didn't reach this conclusion because you KNEW the fabrication theory was false subconsciously before even putting your hands on the keyboard. You dismissed that reality as a falsity, KNOWING that the reality is that that theory couldn't be true. That's the read I'm getting anyway.

Anyway, I have to go to class. This is just a little mind dump of mine. Food for thought if you will. XP

I'll be back later tonight to discuss the issue of "buddying" that's being tossed around.

 

[mentosman8]

Ill be back to post more of my thoughts once I'm off of work, but I'll give a couple thoughts now while I'm on break. There are a few things that have caught my eye:

Marshy: quick assertion that me or tom must be mafia. At first I thought it was solely to stir up discussion, but you've held to it very strongly, and adapted us to being the two maf.

Tom: the omgus like vote does stand as noticeable, but in this style and the situation, not entirely a scummy move, which is why I didn't call it out.

Tom and Kevin: as Marshy said, you make a comment that he's rushing the game, and you two put him at L-1 right away.

As I said, brief thoughts and will be back after work

 

[KevinM]

These whole brief thoughts thing piss me off.

We need to lynch a scum and we have someone who was willing to throw the game to chance with his FIRST POST.

You realize how scummy that is?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Concerning Tom/Kevin buddying:

What I'm seeing isn't necessarily Kevin being defensive or protective of Tom atm, but just more a general mentality agreement between the two. Everyone reacts differently to different playstyles and approaches, and while I may not particularly find the way Marshy opened this game to be particularly abrasive, Kevin and Tom seem to have had a similar reaction, which may make it seem like they're pairing up when really, they just have similar PoVs.

Despite the fact that I don't find it incredibly scummy, it certainly isn't anything to dismiss. Right now, Tom is still my top suspect as I just recently explained and I'd most certainly like to hear what he has to say, but I could definitely seen a Tom/Kev pairing. Tom/Mentos is another reality I've been considering a bit. Wouldn't put it past them as potential scum partners to throw a chopper/sleeper maf combo this game.

Don't think that you're off the radar marshy. =P Right now you're in my comfort zone but I'd still like to hear your specific opinion on what the nature of the "buddying" in this game is.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

eh. i may've misused the term. i meant that tom's omgus and now his attack on me could come to haunt me if he was lynched and flipped goon. later townies may think tom and i were just distancing ourselves. the idea came to mind so quickly because macman had done something similar on aimafia before and i think tom saw it work there

 

[Tom]

unvote

agrrrghhh

 

[KevinM]

Tom's voting pattern is confusing the hell out of me.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

kevin or mentos for me. if they're town they can shoot tom

 

[#HBC | marshy]

well? this is taking way too long. just vote mentos or kevin. tom is the safe shot. frozen and i probably team d2 and win this for town. sheesh

you promised a more thorough post mentos. who's the play? who's the safety shot?

again i'm thinking kevin/tom or mentos/tom. kevin seems like he could be his partner for noting tom's voting patterns and omgus earlier but instead settling on me. mentos is just because i'm pretty trusting of frozen right now

 

[Tom]

no, bull.

your initial post is garbage. you based the lynch, and subsequently vengeful shot, based on absolutely nothing. if you based it on something, it was the fact that we were joking 'happily ever after.' you might as well have based it on nothing. i responded saying it was garbage. that is the only thing i ever would ever do. i am forced to think that you are scum. you can easily fall back on the "marshy" strategy, just like as if we were playing AIM, that you determine early on which two you dont like, and we have to accept it because thats what you do. as scum, that lets you simply say who you want. as town, its "what you would do." its also garbage. the omgus was absolutely serious. your vote was worthless.

i'll call this bs. i challenge you, what's scummy about my omgus vote? that's towards ****ing everyone, because everyone has commented on it. prove that theres something wrong with it, and i'll show you where you're wrong.

"again i'm thinking kevin/tom or mentos/tom. kevin seems like he could be his partner for noting tom's voting patterns and omgus earlier but instead settling on me. mentos is just because i'm pretty trusting of frozen right now"

for noting my voting patterns but still deciding on you?

what is scummy about my voting pattern?

what is scummy about my omgus vote on you?

 

[Tom]

Marshy is aggressive. That's that. I wasn't surprised that he stuck his neck out in order to stir things up. That's typically how he does things, especially as town.

IIRC, the last game I played with him in AIM mafia, he was maf and didn't say a word. He simply waited for someone else to slip and jump on them. Not to metagame too hard here, but his approach here is almost the polar opposite. Right now I'm not getting scum vibes from Marsh; his approach simply doesn't have enough "oomph" to it, so to speak, to come off as a scummy quick lynch push to me. As Kevin said, such an approach is highly reliant on luck, and heavily favors the maf.

I haven't really played enough Venge with Tom to make a judgment call on whether the OMGUS vote is strange or not, and I'm not going to pretend that I have any valid opinion on the matter. However, I will raise this point:



After going back and re-considering what I felt to be the motive behind this line, it started to come off to me as an initial defense, quickly constructed with a DEFENSIVE, DENIAL RIDDEN mindset. You make a judgment call as if to not only try to convince others, but YOURSELF that there was "not enough talking" for Marshy to have caught on to something. The quickness and short nature of the response leads me to believe that this was a very natural reaction that you didn't put much thought into before posting. Thus, I trust it to be a fair representation of what your subconscious reaction to the vote was.

You appeal to Marshy's past play and argue that despite it (whatever his "normal" play might entail) he couldn't have reached a verdict so fast. What did you mean by this? Are you insinuating that he couldn't have a valid townie driven reason to accuse, and that he's mafia trying to fabricate something? Logically speaking, that's the only explanation that fits your post. He voted. He acted in a powerful manner for some reason. You assert that he couldn't have a "hunch." So you must mean that he's fabricating a reason right? Logically a speaking, this is the simplest conclusion one should arrive at as a town player.

My theory is you simply didn't reach this conclusion because you KNEW the fabrication theory was false subconsciously before even putting your hands on the keyboard. You dismissed that reality as a falsity, KNOWING that the reality is that that theory couldn't be true. That's the read I'm getting anyway.

Anyway, I have to go to class. This is just a little mind dump of mine. Food for thought if you will. XP

I'll be back later tonight to discuss the issue of "buddying" that's being tossed around.

i'll respond to this later but im going to straight up say that i had a little bit of a hard time following it.

 

[KevinM]

Tom I said your OMGUS vote was unlike you because in a game like this where you're already an influential player swinging a vote on someone so fast when this game can end in two more posts is odd.

I called you out on it, I stand by it was odd.

Right now I'm only comfortable with a Marshy or Mentos Lynch.

But i'm leaning WAY more towards a Marshy lynch.

Look dude you continue to point out that I'm noting scummy things from Tom but vote for you. Because you're the one that continues to push these quick lynches based on absolutely nothing which is exactly what mafia would look for because it gives them a 50 50 shot to win right away.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Well, as of right now no one has really said anything to change my suspicions. Tom is still my top choice, but I'll wait to see what he has to say about my accusation first.

Right now I'm seeing Tom(GF) with mentos or Kevin as goon as the top possibilities here. But yeah, I wanna hear Tom out first.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

why tom as gf?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

It goes back to my original post about his reaction to your vote.

The way he immediately dismissed the possibility that you could possibly have a "hunch" that he was mafia leads me to believe his mentality of denial was a result of him feeling insecure about his integrity as the GF. He knows that if he goes down via voting then the town wins. As a result of his confidence, his abrupt dismissal screams at me as a mafia GF saying "there's no ****ing way he's caught me already", instead of a calm townie simply taking the vote with a grain of salt and asking questions.

 

[KevinM]

Unvote
Vote:Mentos

Mentos if you're town shoot either Marshy or Frozen.

 

[mentosman8]

Haha so pretty much it's either Kevin and Tom, or Marshy and Frozen(seeing as one of each of those groups has suggested lynching me and shooting one of the other group). I think at this point the pairings are obvious enough we could lynch one from either group. If they flip town, shoot one of the other group. If they flip goon, lynch the other from that group. I would say we're in pretty good shape now

 

[#HBC | Mac]

[2] Mentos: KevinM, Marshy

Not Voting: Tom, Mentos, Frozenflame

 

[KevinM]

Why would one member of each group vote you and put you at -1 then?

Seriously I'm convinced its You and Tom or You and Marshy.

 

[mentosman8]

haha well, from my perspective Kev, I know I'm not scum. Couple that with two groups who seem to think the two of them are town, and one of the other two are scum as well as me(you and Tom, Marshy and FF), and it makes it seem like its one of those two groups as our GF/goon. Right now I'm less inclined to trust Marshy due to his perserverence on his no-data lynch choices, so I'm going to Vote: Marshy and say if he's town he's probably best off shooting Kev or Tom

 

[#HBC | marshy]

unvote mentos

huh. frozen isn't getting much flak from anyone. mentos isn't even considering him being shot, tom has yet to elaborate on what he thought was strange about frozen's post up there, and kevin doesn't have him in any of the scum pairs

kevin why did you switch your vote from me to mentos?

 

[KevinM]

I'm convinced it's either you and Mentos or Tom and Mentos. At this point I realized I had Mentos in either of those pairings and therefore I could STAND to be a little more trusting of BOTH of you in this case. Frozen hasn't posted anything outlandish so he's been under my rader. If he's mafia he's doing a **** good job acting like a townie.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Heh, it's pretty ironic how I'm almost always under the spotlight in most games, but in this small game I'm "under the radar". XD

I don't really understand why I am though, considering I've voiced my suspicions pretty vocally. I'm still thoroughly convinced Tom is our GF with Kev or Mentos as the goon. At this point, I honestly think Tom is just stalling for time. I really don't like voting for people before they can get a response in game's where one vote can put people in lynch position (granted, this game is quite different than traditional mafia), but I'm done waiting. He keeps putting off responding and that just screams "oh ****, how can I craft an excuse to get out of this" to me.

Vote: Tom

This doesn't mean I don't wanna hear from you any more Tom. Based on what I've seen you look all GF to me, but like I said, initial responses are what can make and break a game. If you have something important to say, PLEASE speak up.