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Pretty in pink or true in blue, Krystal for Sm4sh!

Logo12

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I went on to a recent Krystal thread on GameFaqs today for the Lolz and actually found this post by a user named xaine866 which pretty much accurately describes exactly why people think Krystal is bad character compared to the rest of the Star Fox cast. Here it is:
While that point is correct in a way, there are parts that is plain stereotyping on ones who don't like Krystal.

The "adds a romantic part to the lore" still holds true for regular fans, who is coming to the game for a regular "good-guy-beat-bad-guy" space shooting game, not those Legend of Krystal stuff, and plots about 2 mercenaries fighting for a girl, and them making babies and ruining the good ol' team everyone loved. With Star Fox Command breaking up the whole game's plot/ending, where most of them has a relation with Krystal, she is the easiest to be blamed at. These unnecessarily romantic stuff, is annoying enough even for regular fans, at least NOT ONLY yaoi fans.

For "Krystal killed Star Fox", well, while that's fully opinion, statistically, the sales of Star Fox DROPPED after Star Fox 64, constantly falling down throughout the later series, and went up a bit for SF643D. I would say it's the problem of the game itself, not Krystal; but since what's in common of these games? There's Krystal in it.

While there's no implication "the absence of Krystal will make the game better", but by the stats/opinions, the appearance of Krystal (or should I say, the plots related to Krystal in the game) really somehow affects the sales of the game negatively.

For the hate for Krystal.... well, these points are basically it. While the quote was quite accurate on the points, the way it's presented, makes me feel like that he's just calling Krystal haters "yaoi porn lovers", when at this side, we can call you Krystal fans "yiff porn lovers". No need for these salts.

For me, I do not have too much love for Krystal, but when many of the fans of Krystal would just say "Wolf is a worthless clone and Krystal will be very unique", I've gained hate. When there's competition, it's even worse. So if Krystal really got in before Wolf, I would not feel happy in any way.




All of these points, we can easily sum it up:
"Character doesn't disappoint people, people disappoint people".
 
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ToonKake

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i havent been on dis thread in a while but anyways.... Are my Felllow smashers Votin up Krystal Due to it being "SEVERAL" MORE CHARS Being FAN SERVICE??
Cuz i Sure AM VOTE DAT BISSH UP KRYSTAL WE CAN DO IT FOLKS NOWS ARE CHANCE !!! KRYSTAL 4 SMASH !!
 
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Delzethin

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For "Krystal killed Star Fox", well, while that's fully opinion, statistically, the sales of Star Fox DROPPED after Star Fox 64, constantly falling down throughout the later series, and went up a bit for SF643D. I would say it's the problem of the game itself, not Krystal; but since what's in common of these games? There's Krystal in it.

While there's no implication "the absence of Krystal will make the game better", but by the stats/opinions, the appearance of Krystal (or should I say, the plots related to Krystal in the game) really somehow affects the sales of the game negatively.
That had more to do with the gameplay taking a dip in quality, as well as how poorly written Command was. Correlation doesn't imply causation, as they say. Even if you're playing devil's advocate, all you're arguing for is Krystal being used as a scapegoat, the same issue we have with these nostalgists to begin with.

For me, I do not have too much love for Krystal, but when many of the fans of Krystal would just say "Wolf is a worthless clone and Krystal will be very unique", I've gained hate. When there's competition, it's even worse. So if Krystal really got in before Wolf, I would not feel happy in any way.
Most of us here don't view it as a competition, to be honest. We think both of them can make it, since we're not convinced they'll limit DLC characters to one per series.
 

Logo12

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That had more to do with the gameplay taking a dip in quality, as well as how poorly written Command was. Correlation doesn't imply causation, as they say. Even if you're playing devil's advocate, all you're arguing for is Krystal being used as a scapegoat, the same issue we have with these nostalgists to begin with.


Most of us here don't view it as a competition, to be honest. We think both of them can make it, since we're not convinced they'll limit DLC characters to one per series.
Yes, the problem is not on Krystal herself, but on how Krystal was used in the plot. She is not the first woman we have in the game, and if she is used somehow like Katt, and not someone one would instantly fall in love on first sight and those boring romantic plots blah blah blah, There might be less hate (at the same time less significance so :L) on her.

However, that only applies on later games. What about her debut?

She came in as a character who knows telepathy, uses a staff to perform magic tricks, absorbing spirits and stuff, which is already off the regular "space shooting game" genre stuff people loved from the previous game. In a way, for this change of gameplay, she is responsible for the "magic elements" in this game, one of the reason why some people didn't like Adventures, for changing too much in a sudden.

---

Most of you guys don't view it, I see. But outside this board? I can only ever see people having Krystal over Wolf for those reasons. And I lived on reading those comments before finding here. So...
 

Infimus

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GameXplain recently posted their analysis on Star Fox Zero, I've gotta say the different ways to complete missions, the many collectibles, and the change on the gold ring system are quite interesting, I wonder what effects they are going to have in the experience as a whole.


Just a tip, don't read this video's comments as i did, you're not going to like what's there.
 

TheCynicalCdr

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GameXplain recently posted their analysis on Star Fox Zero, I've gotta say the different ways to complete missions, the many collectibles, and the change on the gold ring system are quite interesting, I wonder what effects they are going to have in the experience as a whole.


Just a tip, don't read this video's comments as i did, you're not going to like what's there.
You mean the one guy who not only I suspect is a gay furry with his icon, but thinks the two girls from the unreleased game would be any better?
 

Infimus

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You mean the one guy who not only I suspect is a gay furry with his icon, but thinks the two girls from the unreleased game would be any better?
So i was not the only one that thought of that, i also meant people in general in that whole comment chain (with some exceptions) and some others that are pretty much celebrating a retcon that didn't happen.

Their whole reasoning is old, pointless, and more annoying everyday.
 

~Krystal~

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GameXplain recently posted their analysis on Star Fox Zero, I've gotta say the different ways to complete missions, the many collectibles, and the change on the gold ring system are quite interesting, I wonder what effects they are going to have in the experience as a whole.


Just a tip, don't read this video's comments as i did, you're not going to like what's there.
Here's a fun drinking game. Take a shot everytime times this guy says "Star Fox 64." Bonus points if you can avoid alcohol poisoning by the half mark. The game looks smooth and I've always liked the walker concept from SF 2. Here it looks like a true recreation of that. Now THAT'S a "reimaging" I'm excited about. As long as the game is challenging, and the bosses are diabolical like in Star Fox 64 the original Star Fox, this should be a good buy for me. No Krystal obviously blows, and to be honest, I'm worried that this is a parallel universe in name only and that Nintendo will refuse to revisit Assault's scenario for the next games in the series. This would would essentially be the same thing as a retcon, only without angering a significant part of the fanbase. :glare:
 
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IanTheGamer

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Here's a fun drinking game. Take a shot everytime times this guy says "Star Fox 64." Bonus points if you can avoid alcohol poisoning by the half mark. The game looks smooth and I've always liked the walker concept from SF 2. Here it looks like a true recreation of that. Now THAT'S a "reimaging" I'm excited about. As long as the game is challenging, and the bosses are diabolical like in Star Fox 64 the original Star Fox, this should be a good buy for me. No Krystal obviously blows, and to be honest, I'm worried that this is a parallel universe in name only and that Nintendo will refuse to revisit Assault's scenario for the next games in the series. This would would essentially be the same thing as a retcon, only without angering a significant part of the fanbase. :glare:
If Nintendo does that. Let's agree to hunt Miyamoto down
 

~Krystal~

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If Nintendo does that. Let's agree to hunt Miyamoto down
Lol, I don't know if that's going to change anything, but a letter wouldn't be unreasonable. I'll send that if they keep pushing the reset button. At the very least, let the cast develop for Zero.
 

TheCynicalCdr

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Lol, I don't know if that's going to change anything, but a letter wouldn't be unreasonable. I'll send that if they keep pushing the reset button. At the very least, let the cast develop for Zero.
Nintendo doesnt really kill off or wipe anyone from existence, and I think the reason for them saying Zero's a parallel from the main timeline is due to the fact that the amount of time that passed since 64 with the sequels that came would be far too insulting for those who liked em if it was all thrown out. I being one of em because I like progression with a series, not the same thing I already know, which is why even though I know it's not a full on reboot, I dont like Zero that much already for the fact it's using the same scenario I and many others already know. The sequels and the cast it brought still have their fans, so it'd be foolish to give em the finger after roughly thirteen years.

Adventures and Assault despite what some say did sell enough to get the players choice label and even critics found em good, though the DS and 3DS dont have it anyway, 643D and Command didnt sell around the amount those two did.
 

Infimus

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Nintendo doesnt really kill off or wipe anyone from existence, and I think the reason for them saying Zero's a parallel from the main timeline is due to the fact that the amount of time that passed since 64 with the sequels that came would be far too insulting for those who liked em if it was all thrown out. I being one of em because I like progression with a series, not the same thing I already know, which is why even though I know it's not a full on reboot, I dont like Zero that much already for the fact it's using the same scenario I and many others already know. The sequels and the cast it brought still have their fans, so it'd be foolish to give em the finger after roughly thirteen years.

Adventures and Assault despite what some say did sell enough to get the players choice label and even critics found em good, though the DS and 3DS dont have it anyway, 643D and Command didnt sell around the amount those two did.
My guess is that Nintendo is trying to test the waters for the series and judging by the reception of Zero we might get an actual sequel. It might sound weird trying to test something new with what is technically something done before, but SF64 is one of the two games that the whole fan base can agree in only one opinion, the other one being Command for the complete opposite.

Nintendo did something like this before, Fire Emblem Awakening was supposed to be the last game of the series, since the developers didn't want it to die, they used everything that worked out in the past and make one game with all of that, Awakening turned out to be the best selling game of the whole franchise outside Japan and it guaranteed a sequel, Fire Emblem Fates, which the reception so far has been quite positive even though this title changed a lot of key aspects of the series.
 
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TheDarkKnightNoivern

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GameXplain recently posted their analysis on Star Fox Zero, I've gotta say the different ways to complete missions, the many collectibles, and the change on the gold ring system are quite interesting, I wonder what effects they are going to have in the experience as a whole.


Just a tip, don't read this video's comments as i did, you're not going to like what's there.
The comments aren't as bad as I expected them to be honestly, apart from one guy who kept calling her furrybait and had no arguments to back up why he didn't like her besides that
 

IanTheGamer

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My guess is that Nintendo is trying to test the waters for the series and judging by the reception of Zero we might get an actual sequel. It might sound weird trying to test something new with what is technically something done before, but SF64 is one of the two games that the whole fan base can agree in only one opinion, the other one being Command for the complete opposite.

Nintendo did something like this before, Fire Emblem Awakening was supposed to be the last game of the series, since the developers didn't want it to die, they used everything that worked out in the past and make one game with all of that, Awakening turned out to be the best selling game of the whole franchise outside Japan and it guaranteed a sequel, Fire Emblem Fates, which the reception so far has been quite positive even though this title changed a lot of key aspects of the series.
A smart move would be to market the game with SF64 cast and incorporate Krystal into the game later on, having a captive audience, but Nintendo isn't that smart
 

~Krystal~

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Nintendo did something like this before, Fire Emblem Awakening was supposed to be the last game of the series, since the developers didn't want it to die, they used everything that worked out in the past and make one game with all of that, Awakening turned out to be the best selling game of the whole franchise outside Japan and it guaranteed a sequel, Fire Emblem Fates, which the reception so far has been quite positive even though this title changed a lot of key aspects of the series.
It also helps that Awakening and Fates ratcheted up the lewd. It's never been more glaring than it is now. https://gfycat.com/PerfectShoddyDegus

Does SF Zero have a waifu or husbando factor? Mmmmm, doesn't seem like it. The multiplayer isn't there either, so what this means is the main game needs to impress. And it might.

Nintendo doesnt really kill off or wipe anyone from existence, and I think the reason for them saying Zero's a parallel from the main timeline is due to the fact that the amount of time that passed since 64 with the sequels that came would be far too insulting for those who liked em if it was all thrown out. I being one of em because I like progression with a series, not the same thing I already know, which is why even though I know it's not a full on reboot, I dont like Zero that much already for the fact it's using the same scenario I and many others already know. The sequels and the cast it brought still have their fans, so it'd be foolish to give em the finger after roughly thirteen years.

Adventures and Assault despite what some say did sell enough to get the players choice label and even critics found em good, though the DS and 3DS dont have it anyway, 643D and Command didnt sell around the amount those two did.
I'm in full agreement. It would be a bad idea to ignore the new fans you gained with Adventures, Assault and yes, even Command. Star Fox needs all the interest it can get right now. They left off on a bad note and waited too durn long to give us a new game.
 
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Infimus

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A smart move would be to market the game with SF64 cast and incorporate Krystal into the game later on, having a captive audience, but Nintendo isn't that smart
We don't have a lot of information regarding Zero, but there is nothing saying that this won't happen, after all since this game is not canon they can do whatever they want with the 64 scenario, maybe a fake ending accompanied by an extended epilogue like Metroid Zero Mission. It's certainly not impossible after all Adventures implies that Cerinia was destroyed by Andross.
 

TheCynicalCdr

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My guess is that Nintendo is trying to test the waters for the series and judging by the reception of Zero we might get an actual sequel. It might sound weird trying to test something new with what is technically something done before, but SF64 is one of the two games that the whole fan base can agree in only one opinion, the other one being Command for the complete opposite.

Nintendo did something like this before, Fire Emblem Awakening was supposed to be the last game of the series, since the developers didn't want it to die, they used everything that worked out in the past and make one game with all of that, Awakening turned out to be the best selling game of the whole franchise outside Japan and it guaranteed a sequel, Fire Emblem Fates, which the reception so far has been quite positive even though this title changed a lot of key aspects of the series.
The reception of Zero based on 643Ds result is going to be the same with barely that much of an improvement. It's been said Japan's lost interest with Star Fox and Miyamoto himself wished they'd love it again, i'm pretty sure it died down here too as not everyone knows or even cares about it nowadays. The fact it's also trying to cash in on nostalgia really makes me think it wont work out well either as only a very small amount would bother getting it, whereas others like me wont bother or wont buy it new and instead used.

I really think Miyamoto doomed Zero already just by this, I know Platinum is making it, but Platinum has made some bad games before, but I think in this case it's going to be how Sakamoto screwed Metroid up regardless that Team Ninja made it.
 

Delzethin

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My guess is that Nintendo is trying to test the waters for the series and judging by the reception of Zero we might get an actual sequel. It might sound weird trying to test something new with what is technically something done before, but SF64 is one of the two games that the whole fan base can agree in only one opinion, the other one being Command for the complete opposite.

Nintendo did something like this before, Fire Emblem Awakening was supposed to be the last game of the series, since the developers didn't want it to die, they used everything that worked out in the past and make one game with all of that, Awakening turned out to be the best selling game of the whole franchise outside Japan and it guaranteed a sequel, Fire Emblem Fates, which the reception so far has been quite positive even though this title changed a lot of key aspects of the series.
I've actually been wondering this myself. I think Star Fox Zero might be their way of playing it safe as the series gets back on its feet, then going for something more complex and nuanced with the next one.

I suppose we'll have to see if it works out.
 
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POKEMANSPIKA

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The reception of Zero based on 643Ds result is going to be the same with barely that much of an improvement. It's been said Japan's lost interest with Star Fox and Miyamoto himself wished they'd love it again, i'm pretty sure it died down here too as not everyone knows or even cares about it nowadays. The fact it's also trying to cash in on nostalgia really makes me think it wont work out well either as only a very small amount would bother getting it, whereas others like me wont bother or wont buy it new and instead used.

I really think Miyamoto doomed Zero already just by this, I know Platinum is making it, but Platinum has made some bad games before, but I think in this case it's going to be how Sakamoto screwed Metroid up regardless that Team Ninja made it.
Most, if not all all Platinum's games are good.
 

TheCynicalCdr

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It also helps that Awakening and Fates ratcheted up the lewd. It's never been more glaring than it is now. https://gfycat.com/PerfectShoddyDegus

Does SF Zero have a waifu or husbando factor? Mmmmm, doesn't seem like it. The multiplayer isn't there either, so what this means is the main game needs to impress. And it might.


I'm in full agreement. It would be a bad idea to ignore the new fans you gained with Adventures, Assault and yes, even Command. Star Fox needs all the interest it can get right now. They left off on a bad note and waited too durn long to give us a new game.
For Star Fox, waifu factor's the only thing that can really help it, the husbando factor wont do much as, and it may come off the wrong way to some, Star Fox isnt exactly loved by a ton of women as the Zelda series is. Katt is not enough to help this, Krystal, Amanda, and Lucy together are the only ones who can balance it out, and adding Miyu and Fay with maybe even Fara would help it even further. It's just a matter of if someone other than Miyamoto deals with the series after Zero, because it wasnt until after he stopped dealing with Zelda was when things changed for the better, not that the games he worked on were bad, but you know where i'm getting at.
 

Infimus

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The reception of Zero based on 643Ds result is going to be the same with barely that much of an improvement. It's been said Japan's lost interest with Star Fox and Miyamoto himself wished they'd love it again, i'm pretty sure it died down here too as not everyone knows or even cares about it nowadays. The fact it's also trying to cash in on nostalgia really makes me think it wont work out well either as only a very small amount would bother getting it, whereas others like me wont bother or wont buy it new and instead used.

I really think Miyamoto doomed Zero already just by this, I know Platinum is making it, but Platinum has made some bad games before, but I think in this case it's going to be how Sakamoto screwed Metroid up regardless that Team Ninja made it.
I understand your concerns, as far as i know Star Fox was never popular in Japan as it was in the West, and time made this even worse. I know they are counting on nostalgia to sell the game but as i said before this is their safest route whether we like it or not, maybe they will try an actual sequel afterwards, but who knows? Even though Zero looks interesting to me it still lacks something amazing that will immediately make me wanna buy it, it doesn't look bad, but the scenario being the same doesn't help.

I trust PlatinumGames enough to know that they won't fail, because the failure of The Legend of Korra is Activision's fault they are well known for rushed licensed games, and since Platinum's previous works with Nintendo were all successful (not commercially speaking of course), I think it's safe to assume that we won't have a problem. I think it's unlikely that Miyamoto would do something like Sakamoto after all he is not the director, such big decisions are in the hands of Yusuke Hashimoto (director of Bayonetta 2) and Yugo Hayashi (level designer of Twilight Princess), not to mention the only time that Miyamoto was not the producer of a Star Fox game, Command happened, also here is a fun fact: The producer of Command, Takaya Imamura, was the one who wrote the game's story and characters, and we all know how great that was.

If this actually means something only time will tell, but yeah, i rather wait some time before i decide anything, one thing that i have to give Zero credit for is that unlike Command it doesn't look dead on arrival to me.
 

TheLegendaryFoxFire

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The reception of Zero based on 643Ds result is going to be the same with barely that much of an improvement. It's been said Japan's lost interest with Star Fox and Miyamoto himself wished they'd love it again, i'm pretty sure it died down here too as not everyone knows or even cares about it nowadays. The fact it's also trying to cash in on nostalgia really makes me think it wont work out well either as only a very small amount would bother getting it, whereas others like me wont bother or wont buy it new and instead used.

I really think Miyamoto doomed Zero already just by this, I know Platinum is making it, but Platinum has made some bad games before, but I think in this case it's going to be how Sakamoto screwed Metroid up regardless that Team Ninja made it.
This is everything I have been saying on the Stat Fox Zero board...and let I'm just a trolling hating on Zero because my, "Fur-bait" is gone. I'm so glad other people have joined the Board saying the same things I have been saying. And on a another note. I've noticed a lot more people coming out and saying that Assault was the better of all the newer Star Fox games made thus far.
 

IanTheGamer

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This is everything I have been saying on the Stat Fox Zero board...and let I'm just a trolling hating on Zero because my, "Fur-bait" is gone. I'm so glad other people have joined the Board saying the same things I have been saying. And on a another note. I've noticed a lot more people coming out and saying that Assault was the better of all the newer Star Fox games made thus far.
Hypocrites
 
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Infimus

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This is everything I have been saying on the Stat Fox Zero board...and let I'm just a trolling hating on Zero because my, "Fur-bait" is gone. I'm so glad other people have joined the Board saying the same things I have been saying. And on a another note. I've noticed a lot more people coming out and saying that Assault was the better of all the newer Star Fox games made thus far.
It's the Zelda cycle all over again.

New game comes out -> everybody hate it -> another new game comes out -> everybody liked the previous one and hate the new one
 

POKEMANSPIKA

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It's the Zelda cycle all over again.

New game comes out -> everybody hate it -> another new game comes out -> everybody liked the previous one and hate the new one
No the Zelda cycle is
New game comes out -> everybody likes/loves it -> another new Zelda comes out -> some people like the older one better and some like the newer one.

When Link between Worlds came out, no one started hating it and claimed Skyward Sword was any better. The Zelda series has a usual high standard of quality. Everyone has their favorites in a series, don't know why people make a fuss about which game is better when its all subjective. I personally like Brawl more than Melee (I never found tripping to be a big problem).
 

Infimus

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No the Zelda cycle is
New game comes out -> everybody likes/loves it -> another new Zelda comes out -> some people like the older one better and some like the newer one.

When Link between Worlds came out, no one started hating it and claimed Skyward Sword was any better. The Zelda series has a usual high standard of quality. Everyone has their favorites in a series, don't know why people make a fuss about which game is better when its all subjective. I personally like Brawl more than Melee (I never found tripping to be a big problem).
I mean that regarding the console games, when Wind Waker came out "everybody" hated it because of the art style and wanted something like Ocarina and Majora, then Twilight Princess came out and all of a sudden everybody loved Wind Waker and hated Twilight, then finally Nintendo decided to mix both of them and came out with Skyward Sword, and magically everybody liked Twilight Princess.

Honestly I enjoyed all of them for what they are and Twilight Princess is one of my favorite games of the whole series, i just never understood these people's reasoning, even after the first trailer for Zelda U was shown, i saw some people complaining that it didn't look like the tech demo that Nintendo made very clear that was not going to be how the game would look.
 

POKEMANSPIKA

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I mean that regarding the console games, when Wind Waker came out "everybody" hated it because of the art style and wanted something like Ocarina and Majora, then Twilight Princess came out and all of a sudden everybody loved Wind Waker and hated Twilight, then finally Nintendo decided to mix both of them and came out with Skyward Sword, and magically everybody liked Twilight Princess.

Honestly I enjoyed all of them for what they are and Twilight Princess is one of my favorite games of the whole series, i just never understood these people's reasoning, even after the first trailer for Zelda U was shown, i saw some people complaining that it didn't look like the tech demo that Nintendo made very clear that was not going to be how the game would look.
Well, I feel Wind Waker was always looked down upon until recently. Twilight Princess was received pretty well.

I never saw anyone really complain about the E3 Zelda presentation. Majority of the people were just really excited to see a Zelda in HD that wasn't a remake. So was I.

But let's get back to Krystal.
 

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I need to get my gamepad fixed so I took the opportunity to spread more Krystal word.
Check out what I'm planning on saying to the technical team of Nintendo xD

Krystal4smash xD!!.jpg

I have 79 characters.. I almost want to reword it to " Everything works well except the right joystick. If there are any other problems, please fix them."

then add:

"like the smash roster usually gets one new Star Fox character. Wolf will be back, why not vote Krystal? Krystal4smash" xD!!

I wanna say something better but no matter what, I'm saying Krystal4Smash xD!!
 
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