Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[PrettyGoodYear]

I want Midna, but not Wolf Link...

 

[jimmysilverrims]

I want Midna, but not Wolf Link...

Ah, the presentation of the character, yes, this is a point that has been tossed around from time to time over and over again. It's debates within debates like these that are generally overlooked.

For those of you who may not be following, let me explain. With a list of pros and cons!

Midna
This is Midna, alone. No Wolf Link. In her imp form.

Pros: Shows Midna as her own character, defining her as Midna, nothing else.
Cons: Imp Midna was never alone from Link for long, cerainly not playable.


Wolf Link Midna
This is Midna riding Wolf Link in imp form.

Pros: Has a plethora of moves to chose from and is known well from Twilight Princess
Cons: If WW Link gets in, people will see it as the game having three Links in one game.

Twilight Princess Midna
Midna from at the end of Twilight Princess (I didn't put it in spoiler tags, you all know
this by now)

Pros: A similar build to Zelda or other females makes light work of cloning or creation
Cons: Was only seen for a few seconds in cinematics and is less iconic than the imp.

So what is the best? Personally, I side with the Wolf Link Midna, but that's just me. All that I can tell you is that in any form Midna should definitely get in Brawl.

'Nuff said.

 

[AlbelNox]

That, and, unlike Navi, Midna is a dynamic character, meaning that her aspect and dimentions of the character evolve as the story continues, and thusly, is such a great character that caused a focal point in the Zelda series, deserves a spot in Brawl.

As an AT, sure.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

As an AT, sure.

Apparently all of the people here are illiterates with broken hands because as I write walls of ranting text all I get in return are people who just barely read the post, quote, and reply with one sentance that doesn't even bother to explain itself.

First off Noxxie, you don't realize what a character Midna is. She's a new, important, original, unique character that changed the look (both litterally and figuratively) of the Zelda series, giving it a character that was more than just a simple guide, but a dynamic character who not only moves the plot along, but adds to it, and quite clearly has left a legacy that will most certainly go on for as long as the Zelda series exists, that is to say, for eternity.

Midna brought to the table something that hasn't happened before in the Zelda series, a character that isn't just a tool to have Lin move along, but rather a character with her own backstory and becomes a secondary character that holds up stonger than more longlasting characters in the game like Zelda (Who merely had a few lines, while Midna took most of the game's dilouge.) Midna's character is so interesting and has so many unique abilities that having her as a playable character is such a great idea, that I'd say that er inclusion is on par if not above that of WW Link.

Midna is a wonderful character, both as a fighter and a character. It would be a mstake not to include her as a playable character, and saying that she woluld be an AT is an insult to her importance to the latest Zelda game and to the entire Zelda series as a whole.

Midna deserves to get in Brawl, and all of the facts say that Midna has more going for her than not, and obviously is an excellent rep to the series just to illustrate the Twilight Princess game, let alone improve the roster.

'Nuff said.

 

[Storm Eagle]

Midna should be in Brawl as a PC, no question. But is this really the Midna discussion thread?

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Midna should be in Brawl as a PC, no question. But is this really the Midna discussion thread?

No, this is more open disscussion about the entire roster. But if a topic switch is asked, I'm fine with that.

...

Captain Olimarth & Pikichu

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

No, this is more open disscussion about the entire roster. But if a topic switch is asked, I'm fine with that.

...

Captain Olimarth & Pikichu

yeah i think with the inclusion of characters like capt. olimar, poke trainer and even zss stratagey will become much more important in brawl. Like for example, to be really good with pt your gonna have to master 3 different characters instead of just one (praise sakauri for his stamina system, preventing the possibility of another shiek deal). And with olimar youll have to take care if you pikmin to keep yourself strong. Overall i think brawl will be much more strategic then ever before.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Ah, the presentation of the character, yes, this is a point that has been tossed around from time to time over and over again. It's debates within debates like these that are generally overlooked.

For those of you who may not be following, let me explain. With a list of pros and cons!

Midna
This is Midna, alone. No Wolf Link. In her imp form.

Pros: Shows Midna as her own character, defining her as Midna, nothing else.
Cons: Imp Midna was never alone from Link for long, cerainly not playable.


Wolf Link Midna
This is Midna riding Wolf Link in imp form.

Pros: Has a plethora of moves to chose from and is known well from Twilight Princess
Cons: If WW Link gets in, people will see it as the game having three Links in one game.

Twilight Princess Midna
Midna from at the end of Twilight Princess (I didn't put it in spoiler tags, you all know
this by now)

Pros: A similar build to Zelda or other females makes light work of cloning or creation
Cons: Was only seen for a few seconds in cinematics and is less iconic than the imp.

So what is the best? Personally, I side with the Wolf Link Midna, but that's just me. All that I can tell you is that in any form Midna should definitely get in Brawl.

'Nuff said.

Imp Midna can have some of the shadow attacks she shared with Wolf Link... as her own character her moveset could have the Shadow Circle and Teleport.

Besides that, there's the shadow ball like attack she used to free Link from the cell, and the piercing hair move she used to kill Zant as a side B maybe? Well, just because I see it that way, doesn't mean Sakurai's team does.

Her true form would make me the happiest, but I don't think she's likely. We know Sakurai doesn't care about spoilers, and TP has been out for more than a year already. BUT, as you said, only seen in the last few cinematics of the game. She could still use the moves Imp Midna used, and there's also the tear she used to shatter the mirror.

Hey, they could make Midna a clone of Zelda if they wanted to! ^.^

 

[Copperpot]

Apparently all of the people here are illiterates with broken hands because as I write walls of ranting text all I get in return are people who just barely read the post, quote, and reply with one sentance that doesn't even bother to explain itself.

Well, let's hope that I fill your quota for lines of text in posted replies.

First off Noxxie, you don't realize what a character Midna is. She's a new, important, original, unique character that changed the look (both litterally and figuratively) of the Zelda series, giving it a character that was more than just a simple guide, but a dynamic character who not only moves the plot along, but adds to it, and quite clearly has left a legacy that will most certainly go on for as long as the Zelda series exists, that is to say, for eternity.

Very well said. Midna was the catalyst for the story, and at the same time, she displayed a memorable role in one of the best Zelda titles to date. She's definately NOT a small name in Twilight Princess, or the series for that matter. With that said, she could be an AT in Brawl, but I would definately not be suprised if she was on the playable roster.

Midna brought to the table something that hasn't happened before in the Zelda series, a character that isn't just a tool to have Lin move along, but rather a character with her own backstory and becomes a secondary character that holds up stonger than more longlasting characters in the game like Zelda (Who merely had a few lines, while Midna took most of the game's dilouge.) Midna's character is so interesting and has so many unique abilities that having her as a playable character is such a great idea, that I'd say that er inclusion is on par if not above that of WW Link.

In a series like Zelda, it's easy to flesh out a character from scratch. Link, for one, is the primary connection between the player and the game, but he doesn't speak. He doesn't say one coherent word throughout the entire game. This leaves a lot of room for side characters to produce large amounts of dialogue, because, quite frankly, Zelda fans aren't getting it anywhere else.

This is what made Midna so great. There's so much creative freedom that the developers / creators could do basically anything they wanted. Of course, the story was incredible as well, which probably explains why Midna was able to even be memorable to begin with.

Midna is a wonderful character, both as a fighter and a character. It would be a mstake not to include her as a playable character, and saying that she woluld be an AT is an insult to her importance to the latest Zelda game and to the entire Zelda series as a whole.

Like you said before, it is how they decide to present her that makes all of the difference. Personally, I'd like to see her paired with Wolf Link also. Essentially, Wolf Link is just a wolf, and I don't really apply him to the "army of Link's" argument that many tend to focus on. Comparing Wind Waker Link to Twilight Princess Link (aesthetically) is one thing, but Wolf Link is different enough from his other incarnations to the point that he can't really be considered the same thing.

I'd say make her playable with Wolf Link, but don't address Wolf Link as a part of the character. Just call the pair "Midna". That way a lot of the "Link" complaints are diffused, as he's not really addressed as the character being represented.

Midna deserves to get in Brawl, and all of the facts say that Midna has more going for her than not, and obviously is an excellent rep to the series just to illustrate the Twilight Princess game, let alone improve the roster.

You're going to hate me for bringing this up, but your thoughts on Midna are very similar to my thoughts on Geno. Obviously, there are some major differences there, mainly Geno not being recent in addition to his third party status.

Never-the-less, I compare the two quite often because of their similar roles in two of Nintendo's major franchises.

'Nuff said.

Indeed.

 

[MysticKenji]

stuff about PT and stamina

According to reports, stamina doesn't do that much.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Well, let's hope that I fill your quota for lines of text in posted replies.

Ah, old Copperpot, this brings back the long winded rants of yore...

Very well said. Midna was the catalyst for the story, and at the same time, she displayed a memorable role in one of the best Zelda titles to date. She's definately NOT a small name in Twilight Princess, or the series for that matter. With that said, she could be an AT in Brawl, but I would definately not be suprised if she was on the playable roster.

That does make sense, an AT isn't out of the question, but a PC seems to fit the bill quite well. Midna is one of the few characters introduced into the Zelda series that not only adds to the story but is simultaneously cool. It's also come to me that the Brawl team could stage the ultimate coup d'eat on the DOJO, lie low for most of the year and then blast out with like, thrty more characters. BAM! Who knows what we'll get for a roster size, 30? 40? 50? It could be exclusve, it could be huge, the time extention of the release dates makes everyone wonder: "What could they be doing?" most likely fixing out the WiFi, or perhaps they're addingg a few new characters. Who knows?

In a series like Zelda, it's easy to flesh out a character from scratch. Link, for one, is the primary connection between the player and the game, but he doesn't speak. He doesn't say one coherent word throughout the entire game. This leaves a lot of room for side characters to produce large amounts of dialogue, because, quite frankly, Zelda fans aren't getting it anywhere else.

This is what made Midna so great. There's so much creative freedom that the developers / creators could do basically anything they wanted. Of course, the story was incredible as well, which probably explains why Midna was able to even be memorable to begin with.

I've always loved the silent protagonist, and I appreciate the fact that in all of the cinematics all characters remain dutifully mute. That sort of restrictions will sometimes bring out something not normally seen in video game characters: Acting. Body motion gives off 80% of our communication, and boy, Link had a long vocabulary in TP, where he had the most advanced face (Expression-wise) that I had seen in a video game.

But I'm getting off the point, yes, Midna got a beautiful dialogue part where she blossomed as one of the most interesting characters in Zelda's history. From her spunky yet moderated attitude to her gibberish talk she made a name for herself. A name, might I say, would sound perfect being announced by an announcer as you are about to face off in a classic fight.

Like you said before, it is how they decide to present her that makes all of the difference. Personally, I'd like to see her paired with Wolf Link also. Essentially, Wolf Link is just a wolf, and I don't really apply him to the "army of Link's" argument that many tend to focus on. Comparing Wind Waker Link to Twilight Princess Link (aesthetically) is one thing, but Wolf Link is different enough from his other incarnations to the point that he can't really be considered the same thing.

I'd say make her playable with Wolf Link, but don't address Wolf Link as a part of the character. Just call the pair "Midna". That way a lot of the "Link" complaints are diffused, as he's not really addressed as the character being represented.

Yeah, I suspected her of just being called Midna too, the reason I back up the Wolf Link Midna is due to the plethora of physical attacks (Lunge, spin, bite) that Wol Link has that would fill in some gaps, but the regular old Midna would work just as well. I too agree with the fact that there should be a limit on the Links, heck, I was pretty upset at the fact that Baby Mario and Mario were in Double Dash together, as they technically, are the same person. Same with the Links, but I digress, having WW Link would be a dream, and best of all, they are two seperate people!

You're going to hate me for bringing this up, but your thoughts on Midna are very similar to my thoughts on Geno. Obviously, there are some major differences there, mainly Geno not being recent in addition to his third party status.

Never-the-less, I compare the two quite often because of their similar roles in two of Nintendo's major franchises.

I see the comparison (Minus all the stuff you already mentioned) in the basis that both characters have quite a lot of adversity in the face of others and would e very great, interesting, original characters that would be a great addition to Brawl.

Indeed.

Indubitably.

Imp Midna can have some of the shadow attacks she shared with Wolf Link... as her own character her moveset could have the Shadow Circle and Teleport.

Besides that, there's the shadow ball like attack she used to free Link from the cell, and the piercing hair move she used to kill Zant as a side B maybe? Well, just because I see it that way, doesn't mean Sakurai's team does.

I thought of that too, but as I have stated before, the Wolf Link factor would add an extra inch of uniqueness, as no other character in Brawl if both a magic weilder and uses such animalistic moves like biting and lunging. It would be an interesting combo and would make the character a more medium weight (I think that there's enough floaty characters)

Her true form would make me the happiest, but I don't think she's likely. We know Sakurai doesn't care about spoilers, and TP has been out for more than a year already. BUT, as you said, only seen in the last few cinematics of the game. She could still use the moves Imp Midna used, and there's also the tear she used to shatter the mirror.

Hey, they could make Midna a clone of Zelda if they wanted to! ^.^

Yes, it would be a very interesting insight into what Midna's true form could do and would show a very, very visually cool looking character, but the core of the matter truely is the fact that ther is no sort of moves for the True Midna to pull from. Sure, they can make something up for her, but it just wouldn't have the same feel as if Midna foughtwith moves that people recognise, like the Twilight Circle thingy.

yeah i think with the inclusion of characters like capt. olimar, poke trainer and even zss stratagey will become much more important in brawl. Like for example, to be really good with pt your gonna have to master 3 different characters instead of just one (praise sakauri for his stamina system, preventing the possibility of another shiek deal). And with olimar youll have to take care if you pikmin to keep yourself strong. Overall i think brawl will be much more strategic then ever before.

Yeah, no doubt about it, Brawl will add everything onto the game we all love to improve it, from the tiniest nuances to huge additions and cuts this will add a whole new level of techniques and strategy to the game. Toss in a story mode and the Pokeball-esque Trophy Stand and yo've got one of the best games ever conceived.

And can you imagine a sequel!?

'Nuff said.

 

[Numa Dude]

It is a nice convenience and it does make things simple, but I have to wonder: How big is this screen!? I see 44 windows, and they're probably going to scroll to each side, meaning 72 more windows in addition to the 36 whole windows, meaning that we'll get ata minimum of 108 screens. That's quite a bit, but it seems a tad small for unlockables (including all the trophies, stickers, and CDs) of Brawwl's sides.

What do you think?

I think there is alot of the screen Sakurai is purposley not showing us or maybe there are more than one screen of unlockables.

On the issue of Midna, instead of quoting you all and starting some big argument I'll just say my opinion and leave it at that.

I believe Midna will be an AT because I believe that this time around Sakurai will focus more on other franchises besides the big ones. I believe that before adding side characters like Midna (as playable) Sakurai will focus on adding the most important characters from all the other franchises first. This means that characters with a history with their franchise and who have had a reccuring role like K.Rool will get in long before more recent characters who have a ton of popularity such as Midna. Sakurai has already shown with the inclusion of 2 new Kirby characters he wants the amount of characters per franchise to be much more balanced than in the older smash games and by adding only the most important characters in all the franchises first is the best way to do that.

 

[Copperpot]

While your theory is fairly sound, Numa, I'd like to think that Sakurai is aiming for good characters first and average characters second. It seems particularly strange that a major character from a minor franchise would get in before a minor character from a major franchise strictly because of their status as a prominent character. I say that a character should get in because they are a good character, regardless of their series of origin. Really, this could allow character inclusion to sway either way, as great characters from small games would also get in over subsequently 'poor' characters from larger games.

Of course, I'm not Sakurai, so I clearly can't speak for him. I'd just like to think that his motives are based more on the merits of the characters themselves, and not on series representation.

We'll just have to wait and see how Sakurai makes his decisions when he actually has ample development time.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

I think there is alot of the screen Sakurai is purposley not showing us or maybe there are more than one screen of unlockables.

I always get the feeling he's holding out on us, but eh, he's the man in charge so I'll leave it to that.

On the issue of Midna, instead of quoting you all and starting some big argument I'll just say my opinion and leave it at that.

I believe Midna will be an AT because I believe that this time around Sakurai will focus more on other franchises besides the big ones. I believe that before adding side characters like Midna (as playable) Sakurai will focus on adding the most important characters from all the other franchises first. This means that characters with a history with their franchise and who have had a reccuring role like K.Rool will get in long before more recent characters who have a ton of popularity such as Midna. Sakurai has already shown with the inclusion of 2 new Kirby characters he wants the amount of characters per franchise to be much more balanced than in the older smash games and by adding only the most important characters in all the franchises first is the best way to do that.

Although I respect the fact that you don't want to, as the (sadly now scientologist) Will Smith would say "C'mon up in here lookin' for a fight." However, I simply cannot resist replying.

If, as it does seem, Sakurai is going for history and logevity over recency,why would he have characters that have only been in one game (Like Midna) like Ice Climbers, Geno, or Sheik, all characters that people rediculously overestimate the chances of. Midna played a bigger part in the Zeldaverse than Sheik, who ended up just being Zelda in disguise and the same for Geno's nonexistant effect on the Marioverse.

However, I agree with the older characters who have been kept for the entire series do deserve it more than the new kids, but Midna doesn't deserve it just cause she' new, but rather because she was an important, unique, original, interesting character who made Twilight Princess the great game it is.

In addition, one of the things I loved in Melee was how they payed good homage to the N64 games that came before it, ranging from the NES design of Mushroom Kingdom to the Great Bay from Terminia it took the old and most importantly, the new stuff. Now sme may say that the TP design of characters and a TP stage is enough, but what people don't get is that Twilight Princess was huge Twilight Princess set the first stepping stone for the Wii and broke new ground on how far you can push the graphics limit of the system as well as adding to and keeping true to the Zelda franchise. Twilight Princess and Midna don't deserve all of the recognition in Brawl simply because it's new and fresh in our minds, but rather to lay a milestone for this generation, and giving kudos to a really great game, and if there's a character that personifies that excellent, groundbreaking game, it's Midna, and darnit, Midna sure as heck deserves to join along such comerades as Mario and Sonic in battle.

That game, if not just Midna deserves at least that much.

'Nuff said.

 

[Tatanga4Brawl]

FYI, it might not matter, but Lakitu(AT) is in the background of MeleeStages2...
And ridley is in background of brinstar...DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.
TATANGAAAAAAAA!!!! AT,Boss,Orcharacter!PLZPLZPLZ

 

[Weltunter]

FYI, it might not matter, but Lakitu(AT) is in the background of MeleeStages2...
And ridley is in background of brinstar...DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.
TATANGAAAAAAAA!!!! AT,Boss,Orcharacter!PLZPLZPLZ

King Dedede is in the background of Dreamland BÄM

 

[jimmysilverrims]

While your theory is fairly sound, Numa, I'd like to think that Sakurai is aiming for good characters first and average characters second. It seems particularly strange that a major character from a minor franchise would get in before a minor character from a major franchise strictly because of their status as a prominent character. I say that a character should get in because they are a good character, regardless of their series of origin. Really, this could allow character inclusion to sway either way, as great characters from small games would also get in over subsequently 'poor' characters from larger games.

That's right, I too think that Sakurai is looking for good characters and not just long lasting characters too. He kept the Ice Climbers, didn't he? Everyone was calling for the little guys to be knocked out, butt Sakurai refused. Why? Because the two were popular? Because they were retro? No! Because they are an interesting character. They had a whole new system to fighting, having two characters acting as one is such a unique and original fighting style that, dispite whatever has been said againts them he keeps them. Because they were good. Nothing more, and certainly nothing less.

Of course, I'm not Sakurai, so I clearly can't speak for him. I'd just like to think that his motives are based more on the merits of the characters themselves, and not on series representation.

Finally! Someone who admits it! You won't believe how many people are stating what Sakurai likes and doesn't, quoting him at every turn, and making it seem that they were right, as of course Sakurai must be supporting their cause. I've told people left and right that Sakurai is human, not an algorithm. He's as unpredictable as any of us. There are some acceptions to our prefrences. Like how one can dispise Canada, but love Jim Carrey's comedy stylings, thouroughly enjoy their maple syrup, and find the maple leaf facinating.

We'll just have to wait and see how Sakurai makes his decisions when he actually has ample development time.

I hate to quote Sakurai after reprimanding against it, but I just need to say:

"A bad game is bad forever. A delayed game is bad until it's released."

He said something like that.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

FYI, it might not matter, but Lakitu(AT) is in the background of MeleeStages2...
And ridley is in background of brinstar...DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.
TATANGAAAAAAAA!!!! AT,Boss,Orcharacter!PLZPLZPLZ

How many Lakitus are there? How many? yeah... And we haven't seen Ridley in any background.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

How many Lakitus are there? How many? yeah... And we haven't seen Ridley in any background.

I believe Tatangy means the original Brinstar, which did have Ridley in the background, as for the Lakitus there is a loop of two bobbing around in the background of the stage.

 

[Tatanga4Brawl]

I believe Tatangy means the original Brinstar, which did have Ridley in the background, as for the Lakitus there is a loop of two bobbing around in the background of the stage.

That is what I meant. But you can see lakitu in the screenshot background. So, Ashley at least still has a chance of being an assist. Like Hammer Bros in SSE and as an AT. Maybe Rayquaza will be a Pokeball too.

The Plot thickens...

 

[jimmysilverrims]

How many Lakitus are there? How many? yeah... And we haven't seen Ridley in any background.

I believe Tatangy means the original Brinstar, which did have Ridley in the background, as for the Lakitus there is a loop of two bobbing around in the background of the stage.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Finally! Someone who admits it! You won't believe how many people are stating what Sakurai likes and doesn't, quoting him at every turn, and making it seem that they were right, as of course Sakurai must be supporting their cause. I've told people left and right that Sakurai is human, not an algorithm. He's as unpredictable as any of us. There are some acceptions to our prefrences. Like how one can dispise Canada, but love Jim Carrey's comedy stylings, thouroughly enjoy their maple syrup, and find the maple leaf facinating.



I hate to quote Sakurai after reprimanding against it, but I just need to say:

"A bad game is bad forever. A delayed game is bad until it's released."

He said something like that.

2 things: Yes, I fully agree with you. Sakurai was so eager to include Muddy Mole and he got AT'd.

And... that's a Miyamoto quote.

 

[Numa Dude]

I always get the feeling he's holding out on us, but eh, he's the man in charge so I'll leave it to that.



Although I respect the fact that you don't want to, as the (sadly now scientologist) Will Smith would say "C'mon up in here lookin' for a fight." However, I simply cannot resist replying.

If, as it does seem, Sakurai is going for history and logevity over recency,why would he have characters that have only been in one game (Like Midna) like Ice Climbers, Geno, or Sheik, all characters that people rediculously overestimate the chances of. Midna played a bigger part in the Zeldaverse than Sheik, who ended up just being Zelda in disguise and the same for Geno's nonexistant effect on the Marioverse.

However, I agree with the older characters who have been kept for the entire series do deserve it more than the new kids, but Midna doesn't deserve it just cause she' new, but rather because she was an important, unique, original, interesting character who made Twilight Princess the great game it is.

In addition, one of the things I loved in Melee was how they payed good homage to the N64 games that came before it, ranging from the NES design of Mushroom Kingdom to the Great Bay from Terminia it took the old and most importantly, the new stuff. Now sme may say that the TP design of characters and a TP stage is enough, but what people don't get is that Twilight Princess was huge Twilight Princess set the first stepping stone for the Wii and broke new ground on how far you can push the graphics limit of the system as well as adding to and keeping true to the Zelda franchise. Twilight Princess and Midna don't deserve all of the recognition in Brawl simply because it's new and fresh in our minds, but rather to lay a milestone for this generation, and giving kudos to a really great game, and if there's a character that personifies that excellent, groundbreaking game, it's Midna, and darnit, Midna sure as heck deserves to join along such comerades as Mario and Sonic in battle.

That game, if not just Midna deserves at least that much.

'Nuff said.

I'm sorry but I just have to get this off my chest lest I literaly explode.

TWILIGHT PRINCESS WAS OVERRATED!

Are you people freaking kidding me? TP was nowhere near as good as you seem to so strongly believe. It didn't add anything new and unique to the Zelda experience, it was way too easy, they added in Ganondorf and basically threw away the much more original Zant, their where barely any sidequests, the overworld was as livley as a virgins sex life, The people of Hyrule where as lifeless as dolls and the whole thing was just not up to par with what the earlier Zelda's set.

You wanna play a real Zelda? Go onto the wii shop channell, go into the NES section and download a game titled Zelda II the adventure of Link and then you'll be playing a Zelda of true quality and challenge. And don't come *****ing to me about how "IT'S HARD!" because I don't wanna hear it.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

2 things: Yes, I fully agree with you. Sakurai was so eager to include Muddy Mole and he got AT'd.

Yes, I really think (and hope) that I'm right.

And... that's a Miyamoto quote.

D'OH!

I'm sorry but I just have to get this off my chest lest I literaly explode.

TWILIGHT PRINCESS WAS OVERRATED!

Are you people freaking kidding me? TP was nowhere near as good as you seem to so strongly believe. It didn't add anything new and unique to the Zelda experience, it was way too easy, they added in Ganondorf and basically threw away the much more original Zant, their where barely any sidequests, the overworld was as livley as a virgins sex life, The people of Hyrule where as lifeless as dolls and the whole thing was just not up to par with what the earlier Zelda's set.

Pardon me? It brought nothing? Well, I suppose you're right...

Except for the Wolf Link aspect. And his moveset. And the ability to use Iron Boots and magnets. And the sumo wrestling. And the Ball and Chain. And the Gale Boomerang. And the Targeting system on the projectile and firing weapons. And the Dual Clawshots. And the Dominion Rod. And horseback fights. And no magic. And underwater bombs. And the Ball and Chain.

And that's off the top of my head. Listen, I realize that there's the lack of real sidequests, I know that the Overworld was barren, I know that you feel it's too easy, I know they brought Ganondorf back, despite the possibilities of Zant's potential.

But despite these short comings Twilight Princess was an excellent game, with amazing graphics, a plot that rivals the likes of Ocarina, and adds terrific new concepts not just for the Zelda series, but for the Wii as a whole. This game started the Wii off and did add to the Zelda series, whether you aknowledge it or not, and deserves a big tip of the hat from Brawl in the form of Midna as a PC.

You wanna play a real Zelda? Go onto the wii shop channell, go into the NES section and download a game titled Zelda II the adventure of Link and then you'll be playing a Zelda of true quality and challenge. And don't come *****ing to me about how "IT'S HARD!" because I don't wanna hear it.

I've already played it, on the Zelda Collection for the NGC. It was pretty good. You're right, it was a nice challenge, I'll admit, but as far as plot goes it was a tad stretched, but all games of that time were, weren't they?

 

[Copperpot]

Easy there, tiger. There is more to what makes a great game than difficulty alone.

For instance, I recently purchased Mario Galaxy. I beat it within a few days, and it was incredibly easy compared to past incarnations of the series. But, the game itself had so many interesting factors (such as the physics, story, replayability, etc.) that the diffulty, or lack thereof, didn't really play a part in its overall enjoyment.

Twilight Princess was a great game because it fleshed out an aspect of the series that was otherwise stale. Instead of the traditional 'Run Link to random point A', 'listen to Link belch out random screams as you slice away with your sword', and 'acquire random item that coincedentally kills the random boss of said random dungeon', players actually earned a little variety in Twilight Princess. There was an alternative storyline that was captivating, and presented a new character that wasn't just slapped onto the game in order to make Link's life a little easier.

Midna did do that, but it wasn't the primary reason that she was there. She added something to the typical Legend of Zelda storyline that made it outstanding, and above all, unique.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Easy there, tiger. There is more to what makes a great game than difficulty alone.

For instance, I recently purchased Mario Galaxy. I beat it within a few days, and it was incredibly easy compared to past incarnations of the series. But, the game itself had so many interesting factors (such as the physics, story, replayability, etc.) that the diffulty, or lack thereof, didn't really play a part in its overall enjoyment.

Twilight Princess was a great game because it fleshed out an aspect of the series that was otherwise stale. Instead of the traditional 'Run Link to random point A', 'listen to Link belch out random screams as you slice away with your sword', and 'acquire random item that coincedentally kills the random boss of said random dungeon', players actually earned a little variety in Twilight Princess. There was an alternative storyline that was captivating, and presented a new character that wasn't just slapped onto the game in order to make Link's life a little easier.

Midna did do that, but it wasn't the primary reason that she was there. She added something to the typical Legend of Zelda storyline that made it outstanding, and above all, unique.

I agree to all said by Copperpot. Including the Galaxy stuff.

Spoiler

Playing the game again as Luigi was really cool, especially when you have to save Luigi... With Luigi.

 

[Tatanga4Brawl]

Has anyone played Oracle of Ages? That had no magic. OoA link could be a cloneof link--Bow/SeedShooter
Spin/SpinORBeam c==
Bombs/Bombchu
GaleBoomerang/BoomerangORGaleSeeds
biggest difference...
Clawshot/Switchhook-switches positions of enemies and you.
Weird. OoA was completely different. Oh, and Ocarina/Harp.

 

[Tatanga4Brawl]

srry, computer messed up

 

[Erimir]

I've never seen Ridley on the Melee Planet Zebes: Brinstar stage (the Melee stage is the only one called Brinstar)

He appears in SSB64's Planet Zebes stage, but not in the Melee stage, to my knowledge. It doesn't say that he appears there on the SmashWiki either. But maybe it's an oversight.

I'm pretty sure there's an absence of anything that could be taken to deconfirm Ridley.

/me prays to the video game gods for another character tonight... preferably Ridley

 

[Numa Dude]

My computer messed up so now I have to type this beast a second time.

Pardon me? It brought nothing? Well, I suppose you're right...

Except for the Wolf Link aspect. And his moveset

A bad attempt at reusing the transformation concept of MM if you ask me.

And the ability to use Iron Boots and magnets.

Just like using the boots to walk underwater just different.

And the sumo wrestling.

Which to my dismay was only used 3 times.

And the Ball and Chain.

Which happens to be the weapon of an older Zelda baddy by the name of Onox.

And the Gale Boomerang.

Only added the ability to blow out fire really.

And the Targeting system on the projectile and firing weapons.

You mean the same targeting system in half the wii games so far?

And the Dual Clawshots.

Spider-Link, Spider-Link, does what ever a spider-link does.

And the Dominion Rod.

They basically just put the effect of the command melody from WW into an item.

And horseback fights.

A concept that was planned to be in OoT but couldn't be correctly implemented.

And no magic.

*Shoots self*

And underwater bombs.

There where underwater bombs in MM (they wheren't items but they existed none the less)

And the Ball and Chain.

You said this one twice.

And that's off the top of my head. Listen, I realize that there's the lack of real sidequests, I know that the Overworld was barren, I know that you feel it's too easy, I know they brought Ganondorf back, despite the possibilities of Zant's potential.

But despite these short comings Twilight Princess was an excellent game, with amazing graphics, a plot that rivals the likes of Ocarina, and adds terrific new concepts not just for the Zelda series, but for the Wii as a whole. This game started the Wii off and did add to the Zelda series, whether you aknowledge it or not, and deserves a big tip of the hat from Brawl in the form of Midna as a PC.

I truly do not see what makes TP so special. If your arguing that it launched the Wii you have to remember that it was a gamecube title first and foremost and was only made into a Wii game due to it's launch being so close to the Wii's.

I've already played it, on the Zelda Collection for the NGC. It was pretty good. You're right, it was a nice challenge, I'll admit, but as far as plot goes it was a tad stretched, but all games of that time were, weren't they?

It's a NES game what do you expect?

Easy there, tiger. There is more to what makes a great game than difficulty alone.

For instance, I recently purchased Mario Galaxy. I beat it within a few days, and it was incredibly easy compared to past incarnations of the series. But, the game itself had so many interesting factors (such as the physics, story, replayability, etc.) that the diffulty, or lack thereof, didn't really play a part in its overall enjoyment.

Twilight Princess was a great game because it fleshed out an aspect of the series that was otherwise stale. Instead of the traditional 'Run Link to random point A', 'listen to Link belch out random screams as you slice away with your sword', and 'acquire random item that coincedentally kills the random boss of said random dungeon', players actually earned a little variety in Twilight Princess. There was an alternative storyline that was captivating, and presented a new character that wasn't just slapped onto the game in order to make Link's life a little easier.

Midna did do that, but it wasn't the primary reason that she was there. She added something to the typical Legend of Zelda storyline that made it outstanding, and above all, unique.

You seem to think Midna is something more than just another helper character. Your wrong. There is absolutley nothing that makes Midna any better or more important than the king of the red lions for instance.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

My computer messed up so now I have to type this beast a second time.



A bad attempt at reusing the transformation concept of MM if you ask me.

Actually, it's more like the Twilight version of Link in A Link to the Past, and saying it's a poor attemt at the MM masks is just a lame comparison, as they barely compare. Not only did you need masks (the smallest diffrence) but also wasn't quadrepedal, nor did it have all of the abilities (Scent, Dig, Twilight Circle) and instead had lame clones of Link with slight moderations.

Just like using the boots to walk underwater just different.

Oh yeah, because three dimentional movement and total revolution of vision is exactly like walking with water around you. Jeez, get a load of this guy.

Which to my dismay was only used 3 times.

Yeah, that was a tad dissapointing.

Which happens to be the weapon of an older Zelda baddy by the name of Onox.

But did Link ever use it? Didn't think so.

Only added the ability to blow out fire really.

So locking on to multiple targets must have been a side-effect to the amazing fire-blowing-out power.

You mean the same targeting system in half the wii games so far?

You've proved my point for me. Twilight Princess revolutionized the Wii and gave it a tageting system that laid a path for other games.

Spider-Link, Spider-Link, does what ever a spider-link does.

That's what I said too! But it still is an excelent addition that brought a whole new depth and complexity to the dungeons.

They basically just put the effect of the command melody from WW into an item.

Still, the item itself made interesting puzzlework.

A concept that was planned to be in OoT but couldn't be correctly implemented.

Couldn't, that's the point, OoT couldn't and TP did. Twilight Princess broke ground and you know it.

*Shoots self*

Wow, that's a real shame. Yep, real shame. Dead guy. Yup.

There where underwater bombs in MM (they wheren't items but they existed none the less)

I'll give you that, MM started it, but TP evolved it and made it an item of its own and added some more dynamic to the gameplay.

You said this one twice.

Fine, for this one I'll give to the species of the Oocco (Spelling?) and their city in the clouds in addition to the fact that the bosses in this game weren't rediculously straightforward.

I truly do not see what makes TP so special. If your arguing that it launched the Wii you have to remember that it was a gamecube title first and foremost and was only made into a Wii game due to it's launch being so close to the Wii's.

It still broke ground, and for a while it was considered being just a Wii game, did it not? Sigh, much to learn you still have. Twilight Princess, no matter how much you whine about it, was big, real big and it added a new facet to the Zelda jewel. It kept Ganondorf's manipulation, it had the Twilight Realm and expanded on the existance of Dark Link. It explained the creation of Hyrule and the past of the Temple of Time. It showed how a Zelda game should be: How a hero kicks arse against all odds. Midna was the first dynamic character that is a navigator I've ever seen in a Nintendo game (Her 'death' was more hard hitting than FLUDD's 'death') and the gameplay was simply superb.

You can nitpick about everything in any game, heck, I can make OoT sound worse than the Super Mario Bros. Movie if I tried, heck, Son fanboys do it all the time. The point is, when you look at the game from an objective point of veiw it has more good in it than bad. You can rag on the game all you want, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was the best game on the Wii until Galaxy came out. Twilight Princess will forever be remembered as the best Zelda game of the Wii's generation, and most certainly will be equally be remembered in Brawl.

Through the inclusion of Midna.

You seem to think Midna is something more than just another helper character. Your wrong. There is absolutley nothing that makes Midna any better or more important than the king of the red lions for instance.

Actually, yes, it does. She was able to not only lead Link through things (A task the immobile Red Lion couldn't attempt) but fought something no other helper character has. She would had given up her life to save Link (Which I believe she fully intended to do at the end), yet again something no other helper has done. Midna has ties to the villian Zant and interacted with him on several occasions, illustrating her involvement in the plot, and eventually killed Zant (once).

Midna is more than just a helper character. She's a full fledged character, with all of the depth and involvement as Zelda or Ganondorf if not more. She divulged to Link and told him vital information to the quest. She evolved from wanting to save only her world to wanting to save both realms. She spoke and was involved more than either of the other Triforce wielders and justly deserves a spot in Brawl, whether you believe it or not.

That sir, is 'nuff said.

 

[Tatanga4Brawl]

Once again, why does Oracle of Ages and Rod of Seasons pair get no respect?

 

[error_alt_delete]

why is there no ray01? although I know it is too late to edit, I was just curious. he doesnt realy have much agianst him as far as I know.

 

[JhMS]

^I think Wiseguy said:Isaac or Ray01?
So he picked Isaac.Thats the way I see it.

 

[Arteen]

Meh, delay. I really hope we don't get more "from the game manual"-esque updates.

 

[error_alt_delete]

"A bad game is always bad, a delayed game is eventualy good."

as long as we remember this quote, we should all be fine...

 

[Lord Viper]

"A bad game is always bad, a delayed game is eventualy good."

as long as we remember this quote, we should all be fine...

Thank you. I can't belive a thousand people around here didn't figure that out.

On Topic: But some people say that the delay was for another character, I don't know if it's true but I have hopes I guess.

 

[Devastlian]

Watch tomorrow night's update be a letter that reads something like:

"Hello Smash Fans,

I'm sorry to say that the delay is my fault. I deeply apologize.

-Inafune"

lolol

 

[Erimir]

It's only a week's delay in Japan, people.

I guess there could be some way that it would work that way, but I can't really see why adding a new character would take an additional 3 weeks for North America. Localization for one character shouldn't take that long.

 

[Tatanga4Brawl]

CAPTAAAAAAIN OLIMAAAAAAAAAR!!!!PROTECt THE ENVIRONMENT! OR I'LL KILL YA!
That stage looks crazy...I want SSBB now....