Predictions and Discussion of Stage Legality in Tournaments. (Update: Skyworld)

[Linari Sabre]

what this could mean that the clouds in the skyworld are dealing with the solid objects thing
For instance
1.Dk slams Wario down at the solid platform first Wario goes down like an ordinary meteor, hits the platform and breaks it but still able to stand atop of the cloud below him
2.Dk does the same thing above^but with the cloud thing and wario goes thourgh the cloud instead and falling to his death
This topic may show how the graphics in the game may work srry for spammng

 

[BigRick]

Skyworld will probably be banned due to camping on that bottom platform. Think about it. It forces your opponent to attack from above, and just before they land, you can destroy the platform, recover, and leave your opponent high and dry.

In Link's case though, if someone camped there, he could toss a bomb from above and blow up the platform forcing his opponent to make a recovery (assuming bombs can break the platform).

Or he could simply deal damage to the camper... and in that case, camping would not be profitable.

You can easily be attacked from above so that platform is not good for camping... I really don't see why some ppl compare this one to the one in Kongo Jungle.

 

[XenoGuard]

Or he could simply deal damage to the camper... and in that case, camping would not be profitable.

You can easily be attacked from above so that platform is not good for camping... I really don't see why some ppl compare this one to the one in Kongo Jungle.

seriously thats a horrible example lol

i wanna play on this stage though

 

[Problem2]

Neutral:
Battlefield - Standard 3 platform stage that is found in each SSB.

Yoshi's Island - There isn't really a way to camp unless it is under the giant platform. Still, I don't think that's likely

Lylat Cruise - If all the changes in this stage don't affect game play, and there are no lasers shooting at you, then this stage will probably be nuetral

Smashville - A flat stage with a single platform and no added effects except on Saturday Night.

Pokemon Stadium - Was neutral last time, but if the stage changes cause too much imbalance, it may have to be set as counterpickable.

Fire Emblem Castle - If the catapults and flaming arrows can actually hit you, then this will be bumped down to counterpickable.

Counterpickable:
Delfino Plaza - Much like Mute City. it has a few walk off and die spots too, but since those are temporary, you can't effectively camp at the sides.

Heilbird - If all the neutral stages listed are indeed neutral, I would leave this one as counterpick because of the possible walk-off at the start. This could be a neutral if extra are needed

Inside Castle - It might not be banned if we're lucky, but there are walk-off KO zones here, and unlike the stages above, they remain there the entire match.

Banned:
Bridge of Eldin - Losts of hazards going on, KOing from above seems to be the most effective if you're standing in the middle, but at the edges, you can walk-off KO.

Rumble Falls - Though this could end up being counterpickable, if the problems become too similar to IC's stage, it will be banned.

Skyworld - Holy crap, this place will create some complicated matches, and I believe it will give multi-jumpers a big advantage. Also, that platform at the bottom could be camped on, even though Toadstool jumping might be able to prevent that.

Mario Kart - I don't see an exciting battle spawning on this stage. I has walk-offs and the racetrack seems like a brawling place similar to underneath Hyrule Temple.

 

[BigRick]

Lylat Cruise: Planes shooting at you is not a good reason to remove a stage from the neutral list.

FE Castle: Again, if you can see the hazards coming, and they aren't potentially deadly (ala Flatzone) then you can set this stage to neutral

Halberd: Has the possibility to be set to neutral, because the walk-off is only possible at the beginning... becomes a regular stage after that

Rumble Falls: Might be set to neutral, depending on the scroll speed. Looks a lot like Rainbow Cruise.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Wow, this is probably the most interesting and flame-free topic on the entire Brawl board. Way to go.

On-topic: I'm looking forward to seeing the different ways that the ladders on DK's stage, and especially the "ladder climbing" animation, can be used. If it gives temporary invincibility, or cancels some attacks, or can be dropped off of immediately into aerials, than it should be really interesting to see how fights play out around them.

 

[Salaad]

Neutral:
Battlefield - Standard 3 platform stage that is found in each SSB.

Yoshi's Island - There isn't really a way to camp unless it is under the giant platform. Still, I don't think that's likely

Lylat Cruise - If all the changes in this stage don't affect game play, and there are no lasers shooting at you, then this stage will probably be nuetral

Smashville - A flat stage with a single platform and no added effects except on Saturday Night.

Pokemon Stadium - Was neutral last time, but if the stage changes cause too much imbalance, it may have to be set as counterpickable.

Fire Emblem Castle - If the catapults and flaming arrows can actually hit you, then this will be bumped down to counterpickable.

Counterpickable:
Delfino Plaza - Much like Mute City. it has a few walk off and die spots too, but since those are temporary, you can't effectively camp at the sides.

Heilbird - If all the neutral stages listed are indeed neutral, I would leave this one as counterpick because of the possible walk-off at the start. This could be a neutral if extra are needed

Inside Castle - It might not be banned if we're lucky, but there are walk-off KO zones here, and unlike the stages above, they remain there the entire match.

Banned:
Bridge of Eldin - Losts of hazards going on, KOing from above seems to be the most effective if you're standing in the middle, but at the edges, you can walk-off KO.

Rumble Falls - Though this could end up being counterpickable, if the problems become too similar to IC's stage, it will be banned.

Skyworld - Holy crap, this place will create some complicated matches, and I believe it will give multi-jumpers a big advantage. Also, that platform at the bottom could be camped on, even though Toadstool jumping might be able to prevent that.

Mario Kart - I don't see an exciting battle spawning on this stage. I has walk-offs and the racetrack seems like a brawling place similar to underneath Hyrule Temple.

Hmmm, why Delfino Counter Pickable? Is there anything that can go wrong? It's Like Mute City, but again, it DOES NOT HAVE CARS(w/e) hitting you, why counterpickable? Neutral. Halberd, I say it should be neutral, look at it..it's only the start of the match that is like that, Big whoop...BoE looks like a good place for teams, but I think it should be CP, just depends on how often these "interuptions" occur. Skyworld banned? Ummm...camping isn't really that effective since Footstool Jump will own..There are a lot of different things you can do to prevent camping..just because you think Multi-jumpers have an advantage doesn't mean it should be banned..Your thinking of it this way Yoshi's Story is a good level for Marth since there are platforms, he has the advantage so it should be banned...Ehhh Mario Kart...We havn't seen much of it yet, but I agree, I don't see many intense battles going on, we'll have to see an update about it. Inside the castle..sucks that it has to be Walk-off, but we have to see a lot more about stages to conclude that it's walk-off cause for all we know, there could be pits at the sides..At the top of Rumble falls it seems you get to ride on the airplane (Last picture). This might be CPable as you said...

 

[Eaode]

I think some of you guys have loose conceptions of what should be Neutral.

Just because the hangar is only a part a the beginning, and possibly not that long, doesn't mean it'll be completely fair in that aspect. By no means do I think it'd be banned, but neutral?....

The main reason I think SkyWorld will be banned is mainly because of the fact that ALL of the platforms are destructable. The new update contradicted the Nintendo world trailer, which I saw someone bring up. Again, the trailer showed them walking on the clouds, but the new update shows DK smashing Wario down through the clouds. Basically this means that you could destroy all the platforms at once, and have an effectively empty space with no platforms. You might say "Well it affects everyone because no one can stand on them" but think about it. How long would a Falco or Mario survive in an empty space compared to Peach or Jiggs? The possible camp-friendly layout just adds to that.


And BigRick.... Why should a stage be neutral if there are stage hazards? Yeah you can see them coming, but they're pretty random and can strike at any time. It wont get a stage banned unless it's really excessive, but it'll probably take it off neutral.

 

[Florida]

I think some of you guys have loose conceptions of what should be Neutral.

Just because the hangar is only a part a the beginning, and possibly not that long, doesn't mean it'll be completely fair in that aspect. By no means do I think it'd be banned, but neutral?....

The main reason I think SkyWorld will be banned is mainly because of the fact that ALL of the platforms are destructable. The new update contradicted the Nintendo world trailer, which I saw someone bring up. Again, the trailer showed them walking on the clouds, but the new update shows DK smashing Wario down through the clouds. Basically this means that you could destroy all the platforms at once, and have an effectively empty space with no platforms. You might say "Well it affects everyone because no one can stand on them" but think about it. How long would a Falco or Mario survive in an empty space compared to Peach or Jiggs? The possible camp-friendly layout just adds to that.


And BigRick.... Why should a stage be neutral if there are stage hazards? Yeah you can see them coming, but they're pretty random and can strike at any time. It wont get a stage banned unless it's really excessive, but it'll probably take it off neutral.

I think we're all leaning more to the hopeful thoughts, then reality. We don't really know how long the beginning hanger will stay active for, or if there's any hangar at all. There don't appear to be edges however, and that's what will lead the to an unfair fight. But Brawl isn't going to be exactly like Melee, infact it'll take a huge step away from the similarity.

If what's scaring people about non-edged levels in the waveshining and the chaingrabbing, we don't even know if those two will take place yet! (well, the chaingrabbing is sort of a given). But I'll still stick with the Heilberd being Neutral.

As for Skyworld and it's stage hazards, I don't get why that even should be a problem. Dream Land had a semi-minor hazard involved, yet it was still a neutral select stage. It would require different skill to avoid these cameos and such, but I don't think it should be a problem.

 

[BinAly]

As I see it, Skyworld's platforms break and you will be able to walk and fight over the clouds, but if someone manages to hit you with a Meteor attack you will go through the clouds and GG.

No reason to be banned, I think.

 

[Desu_was_Banned]

Banning stages because you're scared of losing? Pathetic.

 

[Superstar]

Skyworld could either be counterpick or banned. As Sakurai "said" he was gonna make it more aerial implement, depending on the survivability it could be be either on of the two.

I don't think the arwings were the reason that Corneria was counterpick, I think its that the fin creates an excellent camping spot. Mario's Up-B just conveniently reaches up to the edge of the win, and Pika can thunder camp and reach for an up-air, among other possible occasions.

 

[_the_sandman_]

I can't believe people are banning levels already..........


Anywho, Bridge of Eldin shouldn't be banned just yet. The level is so massive, why would someone decided to hang by the side the whole time? Besides gaps can be made, which would introduce interesting gameplay (like edge guarding or meteoring in a gap).

Skyworld is banned? Could it be banned because characters that are good at jumping would have an advantage? Heaven forbid we make Kirby or Yoshi have a chance on a level. Hey, even DK would have a better chance since he has 4 meteor attacks at this point. I mean if its ok to hang off a ledge, why not shoot someone through a cloud?

 

[Justin Wiles]

Bridge of Eldin is debatable... but banning Skyworld seems silly. Breakable platforms is really no big deal... characters with multiple jumps will have an advantage on ANY level in the game, let alone this one. As for meteors, I guess you'll just have to get good at recovering them, right?

It's like you're saying that the counterpicks we have now in Melee don't give advantages to certain characters... give me a break.

But the major problem is the small platform on the side... well, in my opinion, I like this because it gives players other options when it comes to recovery. But what about campers? I don't think it's fair to compare this platform to the rock in Kongo Jungle when this platform is a) destructable, and b) two or three times larger, making it just fine for a 1v1 match.

I say Skyworld = Counterpick.

 

[Eaode]

The big deal isn't that the better recovery characters have the advantage, per se.

The problem is that if all the platforms are destroyed (entirely possible) than the characters with a better recovery pretty much have the only chance of survival.

We're not talking getting back to the stage, we're talking being able to stall in the air long enough for the platforms to come back.

 

[Justin Wiles]

You would have to be really good at destroying platforms to take them all out before they start spawning again (if they do indeed spawn quickly)... this would be a greater problem in team matches, I think.

 

[Aminar]

I honestly think you can still walk on the clouds in skyworld. However you can get hit through them. If thats the case I'd say counterpickable, with meteor/spikers having a big advantage.

 

[Eaode]

yeah, that may or may not be the case.

The banned declaration is assuming that the clouds can't be walked on at all. if they con just be hit through, well then this should by no means be banned. But I'm assuming the clouds aren't solid at all.

It would have been nice if he gave us that detail.

 

[BigRick]

yeah, that may or may not be the case.

The banned declaration is assuming that the clouds can't be walked on at all. if they con just be hit through, well then this should by no means be banned. But I'm assuming the clouds aren't solid at all.

It would have been nice if he gave us that detail.

I think we should trust the Nintendo World trailer on that issue...

you should be able to walk on them clouds.

 

[Eaode]

Now I'm actually considering it. I mean the Nintendo world trailer showed them walking on them, but then the update showed that they weren't solid. I'm trusting the update more, because it's recent.


But if they are solid and are only penetrated by spiked opponents then that would change everything.

****, think of how abusable spikes would be. o.o

 

[Florida]

Now I'm actually considering it. I mean the Nintendo world trailer showed them walking on them, but then the update showed that they weren't solid. I'm trusting the update more, because it's recent.


But if they are solid and are only penetrated by spiked opponents then that would change everything.

****, think of how abusable spikes would be. o.o

There's a problem with screenshots, we have no idea from what angle Wario was hit by Donkey Kong's spike. He could've not even been above the cloud, but still jumping up from under it, and DK hit him before he could reach safety.

There are a lot of possibilities of what could've happened in that screenshot, so I think it'd be more safe to trust the Nintendo World Trailer, as it's only 9 months old, and since they haven't changed much from the E3 2006 trailer either.

As I said before, stage hazards should not be a problem, we've had plenty in Melee that survived from being banned. Even if they were counterpick legal, they weren't banned completely! Skyworld's breakable platforms should not be an excuse for being banned.

The big deal isn't that the better recovery characters have the advantage, per se.

The problem is that if all the platforms are destroyed (entirely possible) than the characters with a better recovery pretty much have the only chance of survival.

We're not talking getting back to the stage, we're talking being able to stall in the air long enough for the platforms to come back.

Haven't you ever noticed that in major tournaments, people are able to counterpick with a level of their choice? I wonder why, oh- to gain the advantage in the next match. It makes perfect sense that this level stay legal, especially for counterpicks. For you to gain an advantage is the whole point of you selecting the stage, and the character!

Sorry for picking on only your quotes, it's just that I have a completely point of view.

 

[Salaad]

That's true, it could be kind of like Kongo Jungle 64...where you could go through the stage if you were trying to recover..

 

[the grim lizard]

It's probably good that you have a thread like this to gather all of these (terrible) predictions, but...

I still am against trying to guess what will be tourney banned and not.

 

[Salaad]

It's probably good that you have a thread like this to gather all of these (terrible) predictions, but...

I still am against trying to guess what will be tourney banned and not.

We are all just so hyped/bored....

 

[Florida]

This thread hasn't been active in a couple of days
But alas, a new stage to discuss!
I knew that the outside and inside of the castle were the same stage, but I had no clue about the underground. Do you think you'll be able to perform ariels while falling, or not?

Anyways, Counterpick Legal.

 

[R0D4N]

I can't believe people are banning levels already..........


Anywho, Bridge of Eldin shouldn't be banned just yet. The level is so massive, why would someone decided to hang by the side the whole time? Besides gaps can be made, which would introduce interesting gameplay (like edge guarding or meteoring in a gap).

Skyworld is banned? Could it be banned because characters that are good at jumping would have an advantage? Heaven forbid we make Kirby or Yoshi have a chance on a level. Hey, even DK would have a better chance since he has 4 meteor attacks at this point. I mean if its ok to hang off a ledge, why not shoot someone through a cloud?

OH NO! Kirby can't have a chance! that would screw up the tiers! And no one messes with our precious tiers!











/sarcasm

 

[red stone]

castle stage is banned definitely. since inside and outside are connected. sooner or later, fox is gonna waveshine the shiz out of you

 

[dan smith]

It would be cool if the clouds were solid, so you could walk on them, but penetrable, so you could knock somebody through. That opens up all sorts of ideas for me, levels with different surface types? Muddy stages and stuff...awesome...

Anyways, everything is speculative, but I do have to say that this thread is nice. Stages are turning out to be something I'm most excited about. I think Yoshi's Island will be fairly neutral. I thought it seemed lame at first, but after I saw the scale of it, I am more favoring of it. It's huge!

I'm also with everybody else who thinks that the DK scroll stage will be way better than Icicle Mt. I bet you have to jump off the ladders though.

 

[Salaad]

castle stage is banned definitely. since inside and outside are connected. sooner or later, fox is gonna waveshine the shiz out of you

I'm pretty sure this stage will be counter-pickable...Waveshine isn't that hard to get out of, unless your opponent is uber..But you can still get out of it...

 

[BigRick]

Seriously...

who the **** said that Fox will be able to waveshine in Brawl???

 

[dan smith]

Seriously...

who the **** said that Fox will be able to waveshine in Brawl???

I just wanted to draw more attention to this...

 

[Stuhddabahkz]

Lol @ above. =/

I'm gonna say Skyworld is... I can't decide between. Two of the neutral stages had "hazards," so, I don't know. But Yoshi's stage will def. be a neutral. Same with Smashville. And I think Lylat Cruise is neutral potential too. But Skyworld is a I'unno right now.

 

[Weed]

@above

what the F_CK does your name say?

its bothering me
lol

 

[Stuhddabahkz]

Stuhddabahkz = Stutter box all ghettoized. A stutter box is a part on a motorcycle, it's a rap thing.

WTF...ghettoized doesn't have a red line under it, that means it's an actual word. Whoa, the racism.

 

[Winston]

How does the support ghost for yoshi's create more of a problem than the cloud does in yoshi's in melee?

Yoshi's looks neutral.

 

[Winston]

How does the support ghost for yoshi's create more of a problem than the cloud does in yoshi's in melee?

Yoshi's looks neutral.

 

[Red_Maniac]

So... do you guys think that WarioWare will be banned?

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Well, if the microgames are random, but they get announced before they happen in a way that can be anticipated, then it could be legal for counterpick. If it just suddenly changes in ways that no one can possibly predict or anticipate, then it would likely be banned. Also, if a majority of the microgames make avoiding their hazards more important than actually fighting, that could be cause for ban. I'd give it a 25% chance (number was pulled out of my ***) of being legal for counterpick.

Looks like a lot of fun for non-tournament matches, though.

 

[Florida]

It's been a while since I last made a post in this thread, the main reason being that there hasn't been a stage update in about 3 weeks. Well, here is my prediction on the WarioWare stage.

WarioWare: Banned
Even with the "reward" room, this stage is defintely too chaotic for most tournament hosters to accept. A shift in the stage every 5 seconds, as well as the numerous hazzards, might be a little hard to adapt to while playing your opponent at the same time.

 

[Stuhddabahkz]

Ooh. Three new stages since I last posted, I will not let this thread die!

Anyway, Pokemon Stadium is obviously gonna be neutral, and hopefully the alternating stages are more suiting. Well, the only ones that sucked were rock and fire, but still... that is half.

As for WarioWare, if the stage stays in its neutral form after the three mini-games (or however many there are) then I say that it'd be a counter-pick. Pokemon Stadium changed. "It didn't have hazards, though..." But the mini-games don't last that long, so same ****. But, if the stage cycles between the mini-games and the standard stage, then I say banned, especially if there are more than five mini-games. So hopefully you play the mini-games first, get them out of the way and have the neutral stage free to be a counter-pick.

Also, I say Halberd is so a counter-pick now. Though the starting point looks like a walk-off, that changes sooner or later.