Powershielding

[Undrdog]

I searched and didn't see jack. And if it was there then blame my laziness for not shifting through tons of semi-related crap.

Anyway, has Powershielding been confirmed from Brawl yet? I don't see why it would be removed seeing as the shielding process seems to be the same. However I'm sorta getting desperate to get the word on the matter.

 

[maxpower1227]

I hope to God it's been removed and replaced with better AI. It would be incredibly lame to see someone powershield something like Snake's Final Smash. It's a move that makes no sense and cheapens characters who actually have reflectors. If they want to discourage projectile spamming against CPUs, they need to program the CPUs to have an intelligent response to it: i.e., close the distance rather than standing back and power-shielding every other shot.

 

[Kimosabae]

Are you fvcking serious? Have you ever even played Melee? That entire post should be deleted it's so full of stupid.


*edit*

Okay, you're cpu scrub. That makes sense.

-SynikaL

 

[Undrdog]

Yeah... Has it ever occurred to you maxpower1227 that some people utilize the PS? Not just the CPU?

 

[Kowz]

What's powershielding?

 

[bluekitsune13]

What's powershielding?

I believe that's where you jam down on the shield button at the same time you get hit by an attack or projectile. If you do it right at the exact time, you'll hear a special sound effect. If it was a projectile it will get reflected. If you were hit with a physical attack, the opponent will get pushed back, leaving them open.

It's true that the CPU's use PS alot, however it's another thing that can really help you become a pro. Teching and PS are two very important techniques to master if you want to get really good.

 

[ShortFuse]

You searched? Go to the official thread finder and go to Advanced Techniques.

Edit: No, no. You're right. It's not on the thread. Yes, Powershielding is back. I'm editing the thread now.

 

[Undrdog]

Hazzah! Thanks! Now I can continue studying shield-to-body ratios! lol...

 

[HarryTheChin]

I could never get power shielding down. Only sometimes I get it.

 

[Kowz]

Oh so that's what that's called!

 

[Undrdog]

Yes, the general idea is to wait for the attack to be between the parameter of your shield and your body. Some character literally cannot do it due to their lack in separation from their shield.

When against projectiles it reflects them back. With Melee attacks it leaves you unstunned and doesn't damage your shield.

 

[twdfx]

Even though I can't really do it except by luck once in a while, I absolutely love powershielding.

Since I have friends, I don't play against CPUs and complain when they powershield all the time. Yeah, the AI should be such that they can not do it nearly as often, but who cares. They are CPUs, this is a game to play with people.

I hope it's a tiny bit easier to powershield in brawl compared to melee.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Yeah, right now, it's 1 frame. That's 1/60th of a second. It should be like... 2 or 3 frames.

 

[Undrdog]

It's not that hard... It depends on the character. It's just a visual issue. When you see a projectile or melee attack enter your shield's parameter push the shield button in and try to avoid Light Shielding it.

So in my opinion, no it shouldn't be changed at all. Making it easier or harder would actually imply a larger or smaller bubble shield for each character.

 

[kackamee]

I never really used PS cause I never found a use for it

 

[Bacon Man11]

Power shielding is kinda wierd, but once I saw Dragmire pwn a Mewtwo by PS his Shadow ball.

 

[Undrdog]

It's pretty useful with Peach as I've found out. Such as a Samus that, in fear of accidentally CCing a Whorenade, opts to projectile spam. I suppose you can see the advantage there.

Another one I found recently is PSing Fox's and Falco's shines. Seeing as most players are still holding down when you PS their attack you can chain a Whorenado in for full damage. I did this about three times in one match at a recent Smashfest, effectively four stocking someone who's on par with me skill wise.

 

[maxpower1227]

Yeah... Has it ever occurred to you maxpower1227 that some people utilize the PS? Not just the CPU?

Of course that has occurred to me. Doesn't mean it isn't a pointless and unnecessary gameplay mechanic that was only incorporated in the first place to artificially boost the difficulty of the pathetic CPU AI. It needs to be done away with in favor of better AI routines, as I said. Human players can get by just fine without it. Characters who are meant to be able to reflect projectiles have moves to make them do so.

 

[Eltrotraw]

after playing Yoshi for 3 days straight at E4A, I think Yoshi's random powershielding was removed.

For those that don't know, Yoshi's shield has a strange property to randomly powershield attacks while holding down the shield button. No timing or anything. I have no idea what causes it and apparently neither does the Yoshi SSBM forum here.


Also...

Of course that has occurred to me. Doesn't mean it isn't a pointless and unnecessary gameplay mechanic that was only incorporated in the first place to artificially boost the difficulty of the pathetic CPU AI. It needs to be done away with in favor of better AI routines, as I said. Human players can get by just fine without it. Characters who are meant to be able to reflect projectiles have moves to make them do so.

Your complaint is only still aimed toward CPUs, not players. The game is meant to be played with other people, not CPUs. Have you really tried designing a competent AI? It's harder than it looks.

Your complaint also completely disregards timing due to delayed or early shots/attacks being launched or just bad timing at said powershielding opponent.

 

[maxpower1227]

Wow... In 6 years I have never noticed that happening. Just when you think you know everything about that game....

 

[Undrdog]

But PSing adds so much to competitive gameplay. If anything, one could argue that more techniques like PSing should be added and completely remove single player all together. Do I agree with that statement? no. But I'd much rather that be the case then what you're suggesting.

 

[maxpower1227]

You would rather have single player modes removed entirely to make room for more twitch-reflex gameplay mechanics, than to have powershielding removed? That sounds perfectly reasonable!

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

You would rather have single player modes removed entirely to make room for more twitch-reflex gameplay mechanics, than to have powershielding removed? That sounds perfectly reasonable!

Most of the single player modes are just there for you to beat a few times to unlock things, and then the multiplayer is what lasts for years. It's not really worth debating, since both an expansive single player game and powershielding are confirmed for Brawl, but... well, I'd much rather have powershielding in Melee than 50 more event matches, no question.

 

[Eltrotraw]

maxpower seems to miss the point.

Powershielding adds depth to the game. The game is not all about facing CPUs all the time, and powershielding projectiles(the main use) isn't as twitch happy as you'd think.

spaceballs pretty much summed it up, though.

 

[maxpower1227]

Most of the single player modes are just there for you to beat a few times to unlock things, and then the multiplayer is what lasts for years. It's not really worth debating, since both an expansive single player game and powershielding are confirmed for Brawl, but... well, I'd much rather have powershielding in Melee than 50 more event matches, no question.

No offense, but this is why I thank God, Allah, Buddha AND Jesus that you guys aren't working on this game. Stupid twitch-reflex mechanics that add depth for depth's sake are not more valuable than actual content. If you want excessive depth, play Tekken. Powershielding is completely pointless, makes no sense, doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, yadda yadda yadda.

 

[dark_Illusion_hokage]

I don't care if it's cheap or anything else, it's just another technique to use in the game, do you people not want the game challenging? I say keep it in.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

No offense, but this is why I thank God, Allah, Buddha AND Jesus that you guys aren't working on this game. Stupid twitch-reflex mechanics that add depth for depth's sake are not more valuable than actual content. If you want excessive depth, play Tekken. Powershielding is completely pointless, makes no sense, doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, yadda yadda yadda.

Single player content won't matter in a year to most people, especially casual players. What almost everyone loves about the smash series is the amazingly customizable and complex multiplayer. And one of the main reasons for that is how, 6 years later, people are still learning new things and new ways to kick each other's *****. Remove powershielding and 90% of the people who own the game wouldn't even notice or realize, but it would still remove options that are important for people with the timing/reflexes to pull it off. Try being less selfish.

The "play (insert other fighting game) instead" argument? Troll somewhere else.

And, lastly,
"Jumping in midair is completely pointless, makes no sense, doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, yadda yadda yadda."
"Airdodging is completely pointless, makes no sense, doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, yadda yadda yadda."
"Jigglypuff's rest attack is completely pointless, makes no sense, doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, yadda yadda yadda."
etc

 

[maxpower1227]

Remove powershielding and 90% of the people who own the game wouldn't even notice or realize, but it would still remove options that are important for people with the timing/reflexes to pull it off. Try being less selfish.

Advocating what is best for (according to you) 90% of the Smash fanbase is being selfish?

Look, I like the strategy involved in SSB, but not to the point of liking pointless moves that otherwise don't belong in the game. I, like many others, appreciate the Smash series for the totality of its parts. It's not just an amazing fighting game. Soul Calibur is as well. What makes Smash truly special is its status as a living encyclopedia of Nintendo history, and as such I love absolutely every little detail and reference that they are able to cram into this game: trophies, stickers, music, items, assist trophies, you name it. Powershielding does nothing for me in that regard, and it's an unnecessary part of the multiplayer game.

And, lastly,
"Jumping in midair is completely pointless, makes no sense, doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, yadda yadda yadda."
"Airdodging is completely pointless, makes no sense, doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, yadda yadda yadda."
"Jigglypuff's rest attack is completely pointless, makes no sense, doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, yadda yadda yadda."
etc

Nice try, but no. I see you're countering my "go play [game] instead" card with the oft-used "mock a valid criticism of a certain gameplay mechanic by replacing it with something completely ubiquitous like 'jumping' in order to make the argument look stupid" card

 

[Kimosabae]

No offense, but this is why I thank God, Allah, Buddha AND Jesus that you guys aren't working on this game. Stupid twitch-reflex mechanics that add depth for depth's sake are not more valuable than actual content. If you want excessive depth, play Tekken. Powershielding is completely pointless, makes no sense, doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, yadda yadda yadda.

You're a d@mned moron.

If you enjoy being horrible at the games you play, that's fine. Stay horrible and encase yourself within the confines of that mediocrity with whatever friends share your asinine philosophy. I can assure you you'll remain the nobody you aspire to be. Just don't infringe on those individuals that fully enjoy and employ all aspects of game play in an effort take games to higher levels. Not just because the very basic, human desire to better themselves in as many facets of life as possible exists within them, but because they find self-edification truly fun.

*edit*

And if you can't find a use for reflecting your opponents own projectiles at them you shouldn't be allowed to breath let alone talk about what makes a fighting game worth playing.


-SynikaL

 

[maxpower1227]

I have an idea. Let's make it so that if you manage to input an attack command within 2 frames of your opponent inputting the same command, your opponent's attack will actually damage him/herself. I think this would be a great idea that adds depth to the game and can really be used well against people who let predictability creep into their fighting style. Who's with me?


Oh, don't make assumptions about how competitive or how demanding of myself I can be. I have put holes in walls over losing games. I fully appreciate the competitive aspects of these games, but that doesn't mean I have to dogmatically advocate depth for the sake of depth.

 

[DarkSpidey13]

No offense, but this is why I thank God, Allah, Buddha AND Jesus that you guys aren't working on this game. Stupid twitch-reflex mechanics that add depth for depth's sake are not more valuable than actual content. If you want excessive depth, play Tekken. Powershielding is completely pointless, makes no sense, doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, yadda yadda yadda.

heh...apparently they didn't need to be working on the game, because the move makes sense and so happens to be in the game anyway.

and how does it not fit in with the spirit of the game? your implying that the single player mode is the spirit of the game, which it's not. people haven't been playing adventure mode for the last 6 years, they've been playing vs. mode....with humans. and a lot of those humans have been able to do those "twitch-reflex moves" on command, and it's made them better at the game.


and what the hell is "depth for depth's sake?" depth is depth. i've never heard anyone complain about depth before...that is, unless they couldn't swim.

 

[Kimosabae]

I have an idea. Let's make it so that if you manage to input an attack command within 2 frames of your opponent inputting the same command, your opponent's attack will actually damage him/herself. I think this would be a great idea that adds depth to the game and can really be used well against people who let predictability creep into their fighting style. Who's with me?

I've got another idea. How about you stow the contrived sardonicism in an effort to actually further your position in this argument? You know, so you stop looking like an idiot?

Oh, don't make assumptions about how competitive or how demanding of myself I can be. I have put holes in walls over losing games. I fully appreciate the competitive aspects of these games, but that doesn't mean I have to dogmatically advocate depth for the sake of depth.

So you'd rather advocate shallowness?

For shallownesses sake?

What is the depth of the Smash series doing to infringe on how you enjoy the game? NOTHING. If you don't appreciate those mechanics, LEAVE THEM BE.


-SynikaL

 

[Red Exodus]

Ignore Max, he's a troll.

I beat if you asked Max the last time he played 1p modes in Melee he couldn't tell you.

1p in melee sucked and 1p in Brawl won't be much different since when you boil it down you're still fighting lame AI opponents.

 

[The Hypnotist]

One player fighting games suck. The fighting that is. Target test was cool, but all the 1 player FIGHTINg sucked in Melee.

 

[Undrdog]

For the record though, I know Max was being sarcastic, but I'd actually like his countering proposal.

 

[maxpower1227]

For the record though, I know Max was being sarcastic, but I'd actually like his countering proposal.

WHAT

You can't be serious.

 

[maxpower1227]

and what the hell is "depth for depth's sake?" depth is depth. i've never heard anyone complain about depth before...that is, unless they couldn't swim.

My facetious suggestion last night would qualify as "depth for the sake of depth", imo. It's a suggestion that, while clearly absurd, would technically make the game deeper and add a new element of strategy to the gameplay. I consider powershielding to be very similar to what I suggested, but if someone can convince me that it's not, I'm all ears.

 

[Undrdog]

Why wouldn't I be? The faster paced the game is the better. What exactly is wrong with it anyway? Your only real reasoning was that it was useless. Which is obviously incorrect. So apart from that argument what do you have against more precise gameplay?

 

[Kimosabae]

My facetious suggestion last night would qualify as "depth for the sake of depth", imo.

That's why your premise is faulty. Because the thought process isn't actually that base. That, and your suggestion is absurd by conventional tastes -- you admitted this yourself.

"Depth for the sake of Depth" is neither the goal in-and-of-itself, nor the thought process that governs developers when wanting to make any fighting game "deep" -- we wouldn't have many fun fighting games if that were the case, would we?

Depth begets more than its own concept. Longevity, interest, competition and fun (and more) are all potential procreates of depth.

H3ll, depth in every context supports longevity. Whether you gave Anna Nicole Smith a talent break, or dropped her into varying water levels with an anchor tied to her ankles , she'd hit rock bottom at various intervals every time.

Shallow depth never helped anyone or anything when sustained.

-SynikaL

 

[maxpower1227]

I have nothing against depth. I fully support things like short hopping; crouch cancelling; fast falling; spot dodging; the need to choose your attack based on the situation, your opponent's current damage, and the known knockback characteristics of your available attacks in order to string together combos or otherwise put your opponent in the worst possible situation; etc. That doesn't mean that I can't have some legitimate gripes with CERTAIN gameplay mechanics that I feel were tacked on. If I'm a bit hostile in this thread, it's because it seems that people will jump down your throat for daring to suggest that SOME of the gameplay mechanics can, despite the fact that they add "depth" to the game, be detrimental to the overall feel of the game. It has nothing to do with my ability to perform the move.