Potentially Spiking Sheik Moves.

[Flamingo]

Well as we all know, Sheik has no blatant spikes. However, during my journeys of Brawl vid-watching, I have found a few instances where it appears that Sheik has in fact "spiked" someone.

Here are two of those instances that I have on video:

1: Comes from one of my own personal videos, and I have two instances where it appears that Sheik's Utilt spikes in this vid, and I have annotated the occurences. It can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jXG7xoB45c and also in the Sheik video critique thread. If the annotations make the 'spike' too unclear, I can remove it. But to skip right to the "spikes", one is at: 2:40 , and a more noticable one is at: 4:40.

2: Comes from DmtManga's second video he posted for critique. Watch at 1:20, it appears as if Sheik's fair spikes. The video can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=strtUecQJW4

Discuss.

PS: We have about 5,000 stickied threads, I think it's about time to get rid of Gimpyfish's stupid, obvious, redundant statement that Sheik is indeed female, and possibly trade it with a more useful thread like Sheik's Counterpick Stages or something to that extent..

 

[-Mars-]

Quite possibly your opponent might have been DI'ing down.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Wow that's really odd... Especially the Fair incident. Perhaps it a sweet-spot effect. Perhaps the second hit of Utilt will spike if the opponent is farther down into the the hitbox that normal? I'll look into it.

 

[Flamingo]

Wow that's really odd... Especially the Fair incident. Perhaps it a sweet-spot effect. Perhaps the second hit of Utilt will spike if the opponent is farther down into the the hitbox that normal? I'll look into it.

K thanks. I personally think that the Fair might have stage spiked. As for the Utilt... it seems as if it actually has a spiking property as you said... when the enemy is further down in the hitbox where Sheik's leg drops on him. (axe kick? idk)

 

[Wildfire393]

Actually, I believe it is the first hit of Sheik's Utilt that knocks downward. This is intended to keep the opponent in the move for both hits, but for some reason it is exaggerated lower down on Sheik's body. I've gotten this a couple times on a recovering Captain Falcon who missed the edge. Not really all that useful, as even at 100%+ it didn't send down enough that he couldn't just Up-B again. Still, interesting stuff to know.

As for that FAir, it was definitely a Stage Spike.

 

[Voyeur]

you're saying the Fair then hit him at a back South East angle to the lege to be spiked by the stage?...
as practical as you may want that to seem it looks very unlikely of the situation.

Perhaps at a certain point and hitbox, the very ending part of the Fair animation perhaps and if you're directly above your opponent as DMT was, it will give you that spike result.
Sort of like Falco's illusion, it's a forward hit but done right it can spike.

I'll keep toying and practicing because I've been able to do it before which led me to my question back in the Q&A to see if it was a flop or not, the fair one that is. The Utilt seemed situational to where Snake got hit from the attack rather then a DI because that is a BIG influence other wise but hmm...
Sheik with a spike would be awesome :]

edit: Flamingo I completely agree with you on the cleaning stickies thing. Having semi useless ones makes it look not as legit and cluttered. That being said I feel that 2 of the current could be combined, the matchups should become a discussion-in depth and perhaps Villi and Werekill could combine their threads for a hard core level thread for Sheik, from each stage advantage to CP's

 

[choknater]

The only spikes I ever get are fast falling bairs off the ledge. Super risky, and they have to be under the stage or hugging the slope.

 

[SinkingHigher]

The marth f-air vid was a stagespike. I have spiked MANY times doing a non-spiking move on that stage, such as Zelda's U-smash. I have stagespiked someone by spiking them with Z's d-air though at the corner. The edge of the stage curves in such a was that you can actually stagespike someone on TOP of the stage. It works on another stage iirc but I don't quite recall which. Perhaps Yoshi's island? You'll notice that marth moved away from the stage and behind sheik. f-air cannot do that. It can hit with down and forward trajectory, though.

From what I have seen it works best on long characters, for example, Marth and Snake, but also Samus/Zamus, Ganondorf and Ike. They seem to wrap around the edge when they are spiked into it.


If you watch the first vid closely you see Snake trying to DI through and behind you. Aparently the Sheik's crotch has spiking properties, or at least tripping ones. This should be tested.

Alright, the second one is clearer. He was DIing down and towards you. Same concept as the first one. You hit him up in the first phase of u-tilt with the crotch, and the thigh hit him down. It seems that her thigh has spiking properties much like Zelda's.

If you plan on testing this yourself, try having a character jump into the u-tilt from BEHIND sheik. They have to miss the first part. Actually, have them slowly walk into sheik so they are almost ghost-walking through you. Gah I want to test this but I have crazy illustrations to do. I'd be happy to test with you tomorrow.

 

[Flamingo]

The only spikes I ever get are fast falling bairs off the ledge. Super risky, and they have to be under the stage or hugging the slope.

For stage spikes you mean?

Yeah, I was the one who suggested the fair stage spike, (even though I initially thought it was a spike...) look closely. And I think that's what it is, Marth being hit at a down-forward trajectory and it hit a part of smashville that probably wouldnt give the stage spike animation (at that corner). After hitting the edge, he rockets straight down.

Also, if we are wrong and it is a spike, it will be one like Luigi's which is nigh-impossible to hit.

 

[Flamingo]

Double post -- Is it viable that we use Utilt while an enemy at high percentages is using their recovery (Most likely a floaty that misses their sweetspot) for a spike? Because otherwise they are ungimpable. Obviously I only suggested this for floatys because 1. they miss sweetspotting the ledge a lot. and 2. we would be running off and using Fair on all other characters.) Meh. But the thing is, the chain is also EXTREMELY good at gimping these floaties on a vertical recovery. So actually, scratch that 1st part, I'm too lazy to erase, but use the chain vs. a vertical recovering Kirby, Jiggs, Yoshi, Sonic, Meta Knight(?). Ok, since the chain works so well on those guys, (if you choose to gimp) ...I suggest maybe using the lucky Utilt spike while on the moving Smashville platform when it is over the edge (and they won't have any invincibility because, dud, it's a platform. Granted, extremely situational, but something you might want to try.
I will be testing this soon, who knows, it may not even work.

 

[SinkingHigher]

If I'm right about the thigh being the spiker, it would be insanely difficult to time for a recovery.

I think it would be better to f-tilt someone that was recovering or climbing up the stage once or twice and u-tilting BEFORE they're out of f-tilt range, just like the vid.

 

[Flamingo]

If I'm right about the thigh being the spiker, it would be insanely difficult to time for a recovery.

I think it would be better to f-tilt someone that was recovering or climbing up the stage once or twice and u-tilting BEFORE they're out of f-tilt range, just like the vid.

Yeah, dude I totally was not thinking in context of the vid -- thanks for putting me back on track.. yea since we see that it can work out of an ftilt, why not use the ftilt to get more damage AND have a better chance at utilt spike? *Flamingo is thinking and smiling at the possibility of ftilting someone on the Smashville platform until it swings over the edge and then utilts someone to their death*

10PerfectScenariosIWishFor

Thanks SinkingHigher

 

[SinkingHigher]

np.

We don't know for sure how well it spikes. It may only be as good as a zelda d-air sourspot.

 

[Flamingo]

np.

We don't know for sure how well it spikes. It may only be as good as a zelda d-air sourspot.

Indeed, I believe if someone were to recreate it, it might be best to do so where Snake was located within the ftilt lock in my vid. You noticed the location and motion of Sheik's utilt SinkingHigher, so I will try to keep the like 'axe kick' with the thigh in mind when trying o recreate, everyone else who is going to try to help out should do so too.

 

[stealth3654]

Something similar happened to me. I was playing a fox on smashville. I was on the right side of the stage and fox was above me. I didn't know which side he was going to DI from me, so I did a down smash. Then, when he fell into the down smash, he flew so far to the bottom right corner of the border that he was no were close to recovering.

Diagonal spiking down smash anyone? >.>

 

[Flamingo]

Something similar happened to me. I was playing a fox on smashville. I was on the right side of the stage and fox was above me. I didn't know which side he was going to DI from me, so I did a down smash. Then, when he fell into the down smash, he flew so far to the bottom right corner of the border that he was no were close to recovering.

Diagonal spiking down smash anyone? >.>

I may be completely wrong... But is our Dsmash like Toon Links where the first hits are supposed to lead into the second hits? Like a more downward trajectory (diagonally down) on the first hits? That may explain it