Potential Roster/Stage Leak Thread

[Trogdorbad]

Something that bothers me is the fact that the majority of you seem to assume everything will stay the same in method. Considering how much else has changed, why are you all assuming that the ONLY way the roster works is characters shift to the right. For all we know, if a new addition splits, say, the Samuses, it replaces Samus with Little Mac. So much has changed, including things you all thought would function exactly as they did in Brawl, and yet you still hold this mindset.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

I think the Ice Climbers being replaced by the DHD is a good idea, since he is a better mascot for the NES era

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

Well I didn't mean NEED, I just meant that Sakurai is pushing the amount of female characters in smash 4

They could just be alt costumes like the WFT and Villager.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

I thought the male one was Popo. Either way I really don't see why people think that the 3DS can't handle Ice Climbers when the Gamecube was able to.

Probably because the only thing we have to go by at the moment is Sakurai saying they were struggling with them on 3ds. At the very least they could've had Popo solo and buffed him to compensate.

 

[Trogdorbad]

I dunno. It just seems like bad marketing.

I'm in charge of marketing for my business. It's a small business, but nonetheless, I have to manage newspaper ads, emails, website promotions, Craigslist ads, etc. When I need to know how to promote an item or a sale, I go and check exactly what it is and how I can best promote it, because going in the dark with what little information I currently have can turn out terribly. If there's a rug sale going on and the highest percentage taken off is 60%, I'm damn well going to say "as much as 60% off!", not "as much as 50% off!" And I'm certainly going to check to see how high I can go before writing that part.

I can only imagine that a professional team paid a much higher salary than mine would work similarly. Simply not knowing what the product offers and promoting one's best guess seems very amateur. To me. You never leave a potential stone unturned. If the wow factor of 50 characters is enough to sell even one person, it's going to be on there.

But, still, I'm not them. Maybe it's different than I'm thinking. Who knows.

"As much as 50% off!" implies that's the highest number. That's not the same thing as sayijg "Over 40/50 characters!" Over 40 when there's more than 50 is a fully valid way of doing it.

 

[Farrac]

I think the Ice Climbers being replaced by the DHD is a good idea, since he is a better mascot for the NES era

How so?

 

[Meta_Ridley]

(Joking) So I think I might have cracked the code on how Ridley could fit into the CSS. The clone row held the cipher we needed to decode this. From what we've seen, this version of Ridley in Smash seems to be based on Other M Ridley, who just so happens to be a clone. So we get...

Spoiler

Ridley, who is too big to fit in with Samus, has his own clone corner. Mewtwo, who has been known to lead clones, is positioned directly above the other clones. Plus I needed to add someone to even everything out.

 

[Farrac]

EDIT: Oops, weird double post

 

[Lady Byakugan]

How so?

Probably because it's more iconic. Well, at least in my eyes

 

[TheMasonOrder]

I'm still crossing my fingers for Roy. Because if we only get Dr. Mario and Mewtwo back, it's going to be a huge letdown.

Plus, Ridley just seems very unlikely to me.

 

[Luigi#1]

I'm still crossing my fingers for Roy. Because if we only get Dr. Mario and Mewtwo back, it's going to be a huge letdown.

Plus, Ridley just seems very unlikely to me.

Well...
I think Lucina kinda kills his chances.
Or just mortally wounds it so much he's WAAAAAY too unlikely.

Anything happen in the past few days other then Sakurai just confirming this leak over and over, to the point where he might as well jump up and down yelling "This leak is confirmed!" over and over again?

 

[Trogdorbad]

What Sakurai really needs to do is finally show us if Ridley's playable or not. ;_;

He already did. Didn't you watch the Smash Direct where he shows off Ridley as a stage boss?

And before any of you Ridley fanboys say anything, yes, he is in fact TOO BIG to be playable. Pyrosphere isn't a small stage, and Ridley's shadow looks to cover around a third of the stage. Ridley is a stage boss, you guys really need to stop swimming in the Nile. Besides, if you watch his animation, he's at a consisten height above the ground. He's too high off the ground to be a playable character, and the consistent height means it's not multiple jumps, but a canned animation for an NPC stage boss. On top of it all, there's the giant hole in the background wall that Ridley made in Other M, and I guarantee he'll be like the Yellow Devil flying off Wily's Castle - he'll peer out the hole, then come flying out and crash down on the stage.

 

[lurxy]

We all would, but it's impossible due to CSS placement.

I never quite understood, why it is considered impossible to put one of the single characters to another place within the roster. I think you all keep forgetting, that the ERSB version is likely to be a temporary version and not the final product. Everybody is assuming this, so we can have more characters in the first place. Why does everybody say then, that the CSS can't be changed? Because it has always been like that? Here are some things that also were always been constant and are now different. Bowser's Moveset a character with a stance based moveset, a character with a buff, a character which is able to heal himself, a character with different weapons which will be destroyed after some time etc.
And with that I just scratched the surface: The Allstar Mode being unlocked from the beginning and the new Classic Mode also show that just because it has always been like that, it can still be changed (I guess this logic does not work for Ganondorf, though).

It makes sense, that the starting roster we saw in the japanes e-shop gives us the alignment of some characters, but nobody said, that these character boxes could not jump from one place to another. There were so many things, that we had to consider likely because it was like that in the Smash Bros games before, but it doesn't have to be like that. If it would, we would have Chrom instead of Robin (because we always get the newest FE Lord), a Allstar Mode that is playable when all characters are unlocked, a linear Classic Mode without the possibility of choosing your route etc.

So what I'm trying to say is: Never be sure because things can change. And they have changed.

 

[RedHotRubberDucky]

@ RedHotRubberDucky I guess you were just trolling us

Oh wow. They changed it up. Usually POTDs are planned out, but deciding what gets upload tends to be random.

 

[rayman33]

Oh wow. They changed it up. Usually POTDs are planned out, but deciding what gets upload tends to be random.

Well what was the supposed deconfermation?

 

[Luigi#1]

He already did. Didn't you watch the Smash Direct where he shows off Ridley as a stage boss?

And before any of you Ridley fanboys say anything, yes, he is in fact TOO BIG to be playable. Pyrosphere isn't a small stage, and Ridley's shadow looks to cover around a third of the stage. Ridley is a stage boss, you guys really need to stop swimming in the Nile. Besides, if you watch his animation, he's at a consisten height above the ground. He's too high off the ground to be a playable character, and the consistent height means it's not multiple jumps, but a canned animation for an NPC stage boss. On top of it all, there's the giant hole in the background wall that Ridley made in Other M, and I guarantee he'll be like the Yellow Devil flying off Wily's Castle - he'll peer out the hole, then come flying out and crash down on the stage.

Bowser, Pikachu, Olimar, Charizard, an-[Throws up extremely aggressively at how this extremely ******, overused, and debunked over and over and over and over and OVER AND OVER AND OVER again arguement is still being ****ing used.]
Also, Peach deconfirmed she floats, Mario Bros deconfimed, as they come out of pipes and pipes appear in 3D Land.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

Oh wow. They changed it up. Usually POTDs are planned out, but deciding what gets upload tends to be random.

Nice save.

 

[Trogdorbad]

Pretty much. It's the "Wonder Red is gonna be revealed during the W101 Direct" situation again. I'd love for a Platinum rep to be in the game as they're my favorite devs, but it just isn't happening.

We'll likely never get a Platinum rep. If you follow Kamiya on Twitter, he really doesn't care for Smash Bros., to put it lightly.

 

[uebo7]

Something that bothers me is the fact that the majority of you seem to assume everything will stay the same in method. Considering how much else has changed, why are you all assuming that the ONLY way the roster works is characters shift to the right. For all we know, if a new addition splits, say, the Samuses, it replaces Samus with Little Mac. So much has changed, including things you all thought would function exactly as they did in Brawl, and yet you still hold this mindset.

Because we have actually seen how the roster screen works. We have seen it in three different instances: The e3 build, the Japanese e-shop (probably starting roster), and the esrb leak. In order from smallest to largest, it follows Brawl's rules of character additions/sliding.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

For the koopling alts

(Here they are by the way)

http://www.mariowiki.com/Koopalings

I think the clown car will go by shell color per koopling


Larry = light blue clown car

Morton = black clown car

Wendey = pink clown car

Iggy = green clown car (different from bowser jr)

Roy = purple clown car

Lemmy = orange clown car

Ludwig = navy blue clown car



What do you think of this theory

 

[staindgrey]

"As much as 50% off!" implies that's the highest number. That's not the same thing as sayijg "Over 40/50 characters!" Over 40 when there's more than 50 is a fully valid way of doing it.

Valid, yes. But it's still leaving cards on the table. "Over 10 characters!" is also valid.

 

[Luigi#1]

Pretty sure there is more characters if the leak all star screen still had the lock.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

Because we have actually seen how the roster screen works. We have seen it in three different instances: The e3 build, the Japanese e-shop (probably starting roster), and the esrb leak. In order from smallest to largest, it follows Brawl's rules of character additions/sliding.

We know that the ESRB video is months old. There may have been a character that Sakurai and the team had been trying to add but couldn't get to work. We saw from Brawl's Forbidden 7 (plus just some of the sloppiness of the game plus the constant delays) that they were a bit crunched for time and may have added more characters.

In the case of Smash 4, if they were able to fix a character between June and now (whether that character be Ice Climbers, Ridley, or what have you), then they may have to bend the rules of the CSS a bit. That is likely why the clones have their own row; because the mechanics of the CSS were already put in place and they were added later on.

And while this is partly grasping at straws, I hope it at least shows that the whole "CSS ordering is infallible" argument isn't so infallible.

 

[DairunCates]

Valid, yes. But it's still leaving cards on the table. "Over 10 characters!" is also valid.

Except, there's a legitimate reason to only say "Over 40" even though the final product likely has a little over 50. Nintendo either doesn't want people to know how many secret characters there are or hired someone to do the poster and didn't give them all of the information on the final build of the game; just what we know right now. The difference between "Over 40" and "Over 50" is significantly less obvious than "Over 10" and "Over 20".

 

[Trogdorbad]

Bowser, Pikachu, Olimar, Charizard, an-[Throws up extremely aggressively at how this extremely ******, overused, and debunked over and over and over and over and OVER AND OVER AND OVER again arguement is still being ****ing used.]
Also, Peach deconfirmed she floats, Mario Bros deconfimed, as they come out of pipes and pipes appear in 3D Land.

Oh yeah, Bowser, of course, the character that HASN'T HAD A CONSISTENT SIZE EVER. Yes, Ridley was small in Metroid for NES, but that was due to limitations. Besides, he looked incredibly strange, and even stranger in the Melee opening. Otherwise, he's always been roughly 3x the size of Samus or larger (nto counting the weird baby forms in Other M). Pokemon aren't a consistent size. Olimar being sized up isn't nearly as strange as sizing down the behemoth that is Ridley. Yes, the Bros. use pipes, but they didn't specifically create those pipes on the stage, whereas Ridley himself tore open that hole in the game the stage is based on. Yes, Peach floats, but I don't see flying characters getting a move like that added to their repertoire. You, as a clear fanboy, are ignoring the fact that Ridley is a third the size of his stage, just like the Yellow Devil. What's your argument now, that they gave him a Super Mushroom for that scene for absolutely no reason? Jeez, you guys are pathetic. I can't wait to lap up your tears when it's confirmed Ridley is a stage boss and nothing more.

 

[uebo7]

Why does everybody say then, that the CSS can't be changed?

Because it hasn't so far. Yes, it's possible that it still could by release, but it seems unlikely when they haven't changed their logic towards it in any of the 3 versions we've seen, one of them being from the e-shop screen, implying that it will look that way in the final product. Plus, there is a clear organization with it, it's not just random placeholder ordering. Series of multiple reps are ordered by date, as are single rep series, clones, and 3rd parties. The only discrepancy is that fact that Yoshi and Wario are where they are, and this is probably because Sakurai wants them next to Mario characters no matter what, and having them there made the rest of the roster fit how he wanted: a win-win situation for him.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

For the koopling alts

(Here they are by the way)

http://www.mariowiki.com/Koopalings

I think the clown car will go by shell color per koopling


Larry = light blue clown car

Morton = black clown car

Wendey = pink clown car

Iggy = green clown car (different from bowser jr)

Roy = purple clown car

Lemmy = orange clown car

Ludwig = navy blue clown car



What do you think of this theory

It looks like the top rim and the propeller of the Koopa Clown Car will match the color of the Koopaling.

 

[staindgrey]

Except, there's a legitimate reason to only say "Over 40" even though the final product likely has a little over 50. Nintendo either doesn't want people to know how many secret characters there are or hired someone to do the poster and didn't give them all of the information on the final build of the game; just what we know right now. The difference between "Over 40" and "Over 50" is significantly less obvious than "Over 10" and "Over 20".

I was simply using "10" as an example to show how silly it is to go lower than you can for no reason. Again, as I stated in an earlier post, there's absolutely no reason why Nintendo would hide information from their internal marketing team, and Sakurai has stated that the final roster was decided very, very early on in development. Since posters such as the one referenced are made once the game is close to going gold, there is absolutely no way someone was misinformed on the roster by that point, and there is no way such a high profile business would hire amateurs. (I think.)

I know just as much as everyone here regarding the game, but I know quite a bit about the business of marketing products. Stating "40" if there's over 50 is very amateur. The only argument against this that has any weight is that Nintendo (for some reason?) didn't want people to know how many characters there were to unlock. But even that holds little merit since 40 is already well above the starting lineup.

My money's on 48 characters. I'll actually be more disappointed in their marketing team's failed poster than anything if there turns out to be more. I should work for Nintendo.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Oh yeah, Bowser, of course, the character that HASN'T HAD A CONSISTENT SIZE EVER. Yes, Ridley was small in Metroid for NES, but that was due to limitations. Besides, he looked incredibly strange, and even stranger in the Melee opening. Otherwise, he's always been roughly 3x the size of Samus or larger (nto counting the weird baby forms in Other M). Pokemon aren't a consistent size. Olimar being sized up isn't nearly as strange as sizing down the behemoth that is Ridley. Yes, the Bros. use pipes, but they didn't specifically create those pipes on the stage, whereas Ridley himself tore open that hole in the game the stage is based on. Yes, Peach floats, but I don't see flying characters getting a move like that added to their repertoire. You, as a clear fanboy, are ignoring the fact that Ridley is a third the size of his stage, just like the Yellow Devil. What's your argument now, that they gave him a Super Mushroom for that scene for absolutely no reason? Jeez, you guys are pathetic. I can't wait to lap up your tears when it's confirmed Ridley is a stage boss and nothing more.

Chill .

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I don't get why you guys are so quick to believe anyone who says they know what's going to be revealed each night. Your gullibility is showing.

 

[TheRealLegit StevenSeagal]

I don't get why you guys are so quick to believe anyone who says they know what's going to be revealed each night. Your gullibility is showing.

It's mainly just trying to get hyped up for POTD's, think most realize all the people who say there's gonna be reveal this night, or wario friday or whatever are clearly lying.

 

[DairunCates]

The only argument against this that has any weight is that Nintendo (for some reason?) didn't want people to know how many characters there were to unlock. But even that holds little merit since 40 is already well above the starting lineup.

My money's on 48 characters.

You realize there's 38 on the smash bros site right now and 40 if you count the 2 other types of mii fighter as separate characters (Which most people do ala Pokemon Trainer and Nintendo would have very little reason to inflate their numbers a bit), right? If the CSS leak is true and not just the video leak (which it's looking like it is), there's 48 ALREADY listed there and that's NOT counting the fact that the Mii Fighters aren't on that list, which, whichever way you put it, either takes the total to 49 or 52.

So, considering we have basically 40 confirmed, it's not shocking that the poster would hint that there's more coming without revealing how many. It seems pretty likely that if Nintendo wanted to claim "Over 50" though, they could safely make that claim. So yeah. The "Over 40" thing is pretty much conjecture.

 

[rayman33]

Oh yeah, Bowser, of course, the character that HASN'T HAD A CONSISTENT SIZE EVER. Yes, Ridley was small in Metroid for NES, but that was due to limitations. Besides, he looked incredibly strange, and even stranger in the Melee opening. Otherwise, he's always been roughly 3x the size of Samus or larger (nto counting the weird baby forms in Other M). Pokemon aren't a consistent size. Olimar being sized up isn't nearly as strange as sizing down the behemoth that is Ridley. Yes, the Bros. use pipes, but they didn't specifically create those pipes on the stage, whereas Ridley himself tore open that hole in the game the stage is based on. Yes, Peach floats, but I don't see flying characters getting a move like that added to their repertoire. You, as a clear fanboy, are ignoring the fact that Ridley is a third the size of his stage, just like the Yellow Devil. What's your argument now, that they gave him a Super Mushroom for that scene for absolutely no reason? Jeez, you guys are pathetic. I can't wait to lap up your tears when it's confirmed Ridley is a stage boss and nothing more.

Well, technically no, only OTHER M RIDLEY is "confirmed" as a stage boss. There may be other iterations of Ridley that may be playable. Ocarina Ganondorf was playable in melee but the Twilight princes Ganondorf was playable in brawl. The Ridley in the melee opening may be the one being playable, or even the one from a different metroid game. And before you say I'm a fanboy, I'm not, I jut simply feel Ridley is viable to be playable in smash

 

[rayman33]

Can someone fill me in on any MewTwo rumors or leaks? (If there have been any)

Look up @Relax Alax on YouTube and watch his video on the history of the CSS leak

 

[rayman33]

He already did. Didn't you watch the Smash Direct where he shows off Ridley as a stage boss?

And before any of you Ridley fanboys say anything, yes, he is in fact TOO BIG to be playable. Pyrosphere isn't a small stage, and Ridley's shadow looks to cover around a third of the stage. Ridley is a stage boss, you guys really need to stop swimming in the Nile. Besides, if you watch his animation, he's at a consisten height above the ground. He's too high off the ground to be a playable character, and the consistent height means it's not multiple jumps, but a canned animation for an NPC stage boss. On top of it all, there's the giant hole in the background wall that Ridley made in Other M, and I guarantee he'll be like the Yellow Devil flying off Wily's Castle - he'll peer out the hole, then come flying out and crash down on the stage.

He just teased it not confirmed it. Not trying to start an argument just giving my two cents

 

[Petrichor]

Because it hasn't so far. Yes, it's possible that it still could by release, but it seems unlikely when they haven't changed their logic towards it in any of the 3 versions we've seen, one of them being from the e-shop screen, implying that it will look that way in the final product. Plus, there is a clear organization with it, it's not just random placeholder ordering. Series of multiple reps are ordered by date, as are single rep series, clones, and 3rd parties. The only discrepancy is that fact that Yoshi and Wario are where they are, and this is probably because Sakurai wants them next to Mario characters no matter what, and having them there made the rest of the roster fit how he wanted: a win-win situation for him.

There are other discrepancies. Little Mac is placed between Kirby and Star Fox, which puts him away from the single-character franchises. He shouldn't even appear there chronologically. He should either be between Donkey Kong and Legend of Zelda (Arcade release) or between Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem (NES release). Heck, they could have put him in the latter position and filled out the same row while maintaining the chronological order. He's clearly there just to fill space, so he's a character that could potentially teleport ala Melee Pikachu when a new character is unlocked.

There's also the fact that Shulk is wedged between the clones and third parties, but clearly isn't considered a full member of either since both groups are also ordered chronologically. If Shulk were considered a clone (which wouldn't make much sense given what we've seen, but whatever) he would be between Dr Mario and Dark Pit. If he were considered analogous to a third party, he would be after Sonic. So he isn't considered one of either, but is cut off from the rest of the single-character section by the clone section. This could be an indication that either he or the clones are going to move at some point, since there's really no reason for him to be cut off like that.

There's also Game and Watch, who is either there as a pun (Game and Wario) or as a reference to the Game and Watch versions of Donkey Kong. Either way he disrupts the order by being from a single-character franchise and being in the multi-character franchise section, as well as being out of chronological order.

None of this disproves what you're saying. We have no evidence yet that any characters will make any big moves around the CSS. But there are characters that could potentially do so due to being in weird places on the leaked CSS.

 

[Trogdorbad]

Chill .

Hey, I wasn't the one aggressively vomiting upon being told my favorite character wasn't in the game.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

I remember in the direct that Ridley picked up Pikachu with his talons.

 

[rayman33]

I remember in the direct that Ridley picked up Pikachu with his talons.

Well I may be playing devils advocate but that just may be one of the things he does as the stage boss. The only one we have seen so far is the yellow devil and just because he doesn't pick up fighters doesn't mean others won't

 

[DairunCates]

Well I may be playing devils advocate but that just may be one of the things he does as the stage boss. The only one we have seen so far is the yellow devil and just because he doesn't pick up fighters doesn't mean others won't

That IS kinda one of the 4 things Ridley does as a boss in any metroid game beyond the first. He shoots fireballs, he attacks with his tail, he flies into things, and he picks Samus up. There's little reason a boss version wouldn't do this.