Potential Roster/Stage Leak Thread

[Zeox]

ey don't respond with a distasteful family guy gif, I was just joking and making fun of everyone who keep posting that pic. =P

but... but... the fake leak... only means one thing... Fake Leak confirmed for Smash 4!!

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

You're forgetting the strong possibility that the final five characters will be included as free dlc at the time of the wii u launch, which would make sense as this would build massive amounts of hype. In this case dlc doesn't have to be rated, or is rated separately, meaning Ridley's absence would make sense. And honestly, Mewtwo is the character that makes the most sense to be one of the final five, considering the massive amount of demand from both Japan and everywhere else.

I still have no idea where this idea comes from. The game isn't going to be hype enough? They'd have to be withholding these five characters for the duration of the wii u prerelease period, which is at most two months. That means they'd be sitting on five characters that could be in the 3DS version right then, but have arbitrarily decided to withhold for later.

 

[brawlerdude]

The game's been rated for a couple months hasn't it?

Also, why is Ridley objectionable for being a "giant flying monster" while Mewtwo, a more human sized monster with a preference for violence, gets a pass? Your argument needs better presentation I think.

Shulk's reveal trailer is the first one to show a rating. They rest had a disclaimer "May contain content inappropriate for children."
As for Ridley vs. Mewtwo, Ridley is a creature from T-rated games. Mewtwo is a creature from E-rated games. If the leak truly was the ESRB build, which I think is undoubtedly is, they most likely would've shown something of him. Ganondorf was shown, and he is also from a T-rated game (at least that version of him is).

I doubt the footage and photos we saw was everything shown to the ESRB, though. It's just not enough. It shows very few characters (it seems to focus on unannounced newcomers, I guess because the leaker wanted to show off specific stuff) and presumably none of the 1P modes. And if Ridley should have been shown, shouldn't Duck Hunt have also been shown due to the nature of the original game? They'd probably want to be sure that anything revolving around that character was highlighted, but all we see is a render.

We only saw bits an pieces of the leak. There could've been more footage that we never saw. This is all just speculation, but I definitely agree that DHD should've been shown off because of the game he's from.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Hey guys I'm new to smashboards but I saw this leak here and it blew me away it looked so real!! Can we discuss this please?

Now you guys are just trolling.

 

[Evello]

I must REALLY not be understanding you. You say...
The sliding rule was used in Brawl, which means everyone was in the right order, and did not bounce around;
But then explain how everyone bounced around.
You state that this is likely what is evident in the new game.
But we see the (likely) starting CSS and the alleged/near end CSS do not have characters bounce around.

Okay, I'll try to be a little more clear. Sorry if this is a little long. A sliding system of roster expansion was used in Brawl. SSB4 seems to use the exact same system. In this system, characters are in a fixed order horizontally based on their position in the final roster. When a character is unlocked, it appears in its set place and all the characters after that new addition shift right to accommodate them. If a character is at the end of a row when a character is added before them, that character moves to the start of the next row.

It's a very hard system to explain, so take a look at the final Brawl roster, then compare it to the starting roster:

While the characters in a series were grouped vertically in Brawl's final roster, the order of characters which is fixed is actually the horizontal order. So the order in the starting roster is Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus... Wario, Olimar, Lucas. If you compare that to the final roster, you will see it is completely consistent. Wario is to the left of Olimar. Olimar is to the left of Lucas. There are additions in between them, but the horizontal order is constant.

To see what happens when a character is added, let's use Marth as an example. From the final roster we know Marth's final spot is between Pikachu and G&W. So if he is added to the starting roster, he will be added in the same horizontal spot to the right of Pikachu, before Diddy Kong. Now the roster shifts to accommodate Marth. Diddy Kong will shift down to the start of row 2, where all the characters will shift right to fit him, in turn pushing Ice Climbers to row 3. Knowing what the final Brawl roster looks like, you can now see that Diddy Kong is moving toward his final place in row 2 under Donkey Kong. Similarly, Zelda is advancing toward her final place under Link. And we can predict that there needs to be one more addition between Marth and Diddy to push Diddy and Zelda where they need to go. This is Luigi. (there's actually two additions, G&W and Luigi, since a 9th column eventually appears, but you get the idea) . Peach will eventually end up at the start of row 3, so Luigi, G&W, Falco, and Snake (again the 9th column makes things screwy) need to be added to push her far enough to the right to drop down a row.

This system is used for every character, so that characters can be unlocked in any order. It doesn't matter who else is unlocked, because no matter what the character will go to their set location, regardless of if their final neighbors are there or not. If say, Falco is unlocked first, he fits after Meta Knight and before Pokemon Trainer. If you could somehow unlock Toon Link first, he would fit between Wario and Olimar.

So, what does this all mean for SSB4? Well as you said, the Japanese eShop roster is a lot better organized than the seemingly random Brawl starting roster. However, the rosters appear to change by the same mechanic. The horizontal relationship between characters never changes between the demo, leak, and eShop CSS's, new unlocks are simply added between them. The reason the SSB4 starting roster looks so organized compared to Brawl's starting roster is that characters in the same franchise are grouped horizontally this time, not vertically like Brawl. As a result, franchises shift horizontally together. Still, this will make it quite common for characters to get separated from their franchises when one rep is bumped down a row. For instance, if the eShop roster is the starting roster and Wario is the first unlockable, he would fit between Rosalina and DK, and would bump Diddy down to the start of row 2. The DK characters would be separated. Dr. Mario will eventually be added to bump DK down with Diddy, but until the roster nears completion there will usually be a couple stragglers here and there. However in the leaked roster not a single character is separated from their franchise. This makes it very likely that what we are seeing is the final roster.

The only series which could have additions in the leaked roster without forcing franchises to split across rows are Pokemon, Star Fox, clones, and characters from so-far unrepresented franchises, and there are only a few combinations that will work.

 

[Zeox]

Hey guys I'm new to smashboards but I saw this leak here and it blew me away it looked so real!! Can we discuss this please?

yeah its confirmed is 100% true my friend from Noentiendo confirm this

 

[TheUltraDeino]

Hey guys I'm new to smashboards but I saw this leak here and it blew me away it looked so real!! Can we discuss this please?

This definitely escalated quickly...

 

[Ghoti]

So guys, can we talk about this totally new leak I just found out about just now?

Spoiler

Spoiler

The Wolf image looks like the one from that leak with the K.O. chart.

I don't believe the K.O. chart leak.

 

[brawlerdude]

You're forgetting the strong possibility that the final five characters will be included as free dlc at the time of the wii u launch, which would make sense as this would build massive amounts of hype. In this case dlc doesn't have to be rated, or is rated separately, meaning Ridley's absence would make sense. And honestly, Mewtwo is the character that makes the most sense to be one of the final five, considering the massive amount of demand from both Japan and everywhere else.

I dislike the idea of DLC used other than for extra alternate costumes. It is a fighting game that has a competitive scene, so having characters added in later would change things up competitively.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Shulk's reveal trailer is the first one to show a rating. They rest had a disclaimer "May contain content inappropriate for children."
As for Ridley vs. Mewtwo, Ridley is a creature from T-rated games. Mewtwo is a creature from E-rated games. If the leak truly was the ESRB build, which I think is undoubtedly is, they most likely would've shown something of him. Ganondorf was shown, and he is also from a T-rated game (at least that version of him is).

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the rating was made public before that trailer.

Again, your argument is flawed. The games they come from have would have no bearing on whether they were shown or not. Ridley is a genocidal pirate, Ganondorf is a tyrannical warlock, and Mewtwo is a violent clone whose most well known depiction slaughtered an entire island full of scientists.

Show me something substantial for why Ridley would NEED to be shown specifically but something like Mewtwo wouldn't. Using Ganondorf as your evidence proves nothing unless you can prove that's why Ganondorf was also shown.

EDIT: Just checked. First reference to Smash 3DS' rating was mid July.

 

[Lord Goomy]

Sorry, Double post

 

[Lord Goomy]

The only series which could have additions in the leaked roster without forcing franchises to split across rows are Pokemon, Star Fox, clones, and characters from so-far unrepresented franchises, and there are only a few combinations that will work.

I've been looking at the CSS in a similar way and doesn't Kirby also work for a new rep?

I still have no idea where this idea comes from. The game isn't going to be hype enough? They'd have to be withholding these five characters for the duration of the wii u prerelease period, which is at most two months. That means they'd be sitting on five characters that could be in the 3DS version right then, but have arbitrarily decided to withhold for later.

I would just be to keep hype up and keep people focusing on the game with rampant speculation. Basically, they want people looking forward to the wii u version rather than becomiing content with the 3ds version. This, of course, doesn't mean that everyone will, but there's a possibility that some might.

I dislike the idea of DLC used other than for extra alternate costumes. It is a fighting game that has a competitive scene, so having characters added in later would change things up competitively.

It honestly doesn't matter what you like, it's what makes sense for Nintendo to do as a business. There is also the fact that the wii u version is going to probably be the main competitive version, and the main idea of this theory is that these extra characters would be included on-disc for that version.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I would just be to keep hype up and keep people focusing on the game with rampant speculation. Basically, they want people looking forward to the wii u version rather than becomiing content with the 3ds version. This, of course, doesn't mean that everyone will, but there's a possibility that some might.

Nice double post.

All they have to do is start showing what's exclusive to the wii to get it selling. Better graphics and online capabilities alone are gonna do that. There's no reason to withhold characters, especially since they're going to be on the 3DS as well. So it's not even an exclusive deal to look forward to since you wouldn't even need the Wii U version to partake in it.

 

[MrPanic]

Not sure if anybody if anyone is still discussing potential final rosters based on the leak, but here's my expectation:

So what am I basing this on? Well, obviously the leak and that the order changes up when everyone is unlocked, but other than that.

The Trophy Quiz theory.
Not sure if this was still on peoples minds, but the smash direct had a very particular random thing in it. Four breaks that had a little quiz that made you guess a trophy ala "Who's this Pokemon?". It was particularly interesting since it really was a very random thing in the whole direct, everything else in that direct was purely to give info about the game except those breaks. I personally, and I'm sure others with me, believe that nothing that Sakurai does is random and that that seemingly random trophy quiz isn't random at all, but was a very specific tease of Sakurai of what new characters are still coming. So there were four trophies from four particular franchises: Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Metroid and Zelda. So far after that direct we've seen two character reveals that are part of these franchises, namely Palutena from KI and Robin from FE. That leaves us with two more franchises that should get a new character, Metroid and Zelda. I know this is of course a theory, but for me it's a 100% confirm on that we'll get a new Zelda and Metroid rep, there is literally no doubt in my mind and no argument is ever gonna convince me otherwise unless it's the real full roster of course.

So, why Ridley and Impa? Well, simply because of all the random leaks surrounding this leak. I was specifically looking for leaks that had at least a Zelda and Metroid character on it, and the few who did mentioned Impa and Ridley together. This is also why Dixie and Mewtwo are on there, because those two got mentioned alongside Impa and Ridley a lot. Machrider seems to be mentioned alongside them as well sometimes, but since that happened inconsistently I left him of the roster for now.

So why Mii's in the bottom-left? Tbh I put them there as a wildcard. We've been shown a separate menu for the Mii's so I don't actually think they would appear on the roster. That said, a lot of options are still left. As a Sal leak supporter I still feel like the the Chorus Kids/Marshel has a real chance of appearing, but since that leak was either fake or very outdated they can be either real, fake or cut so it's just an possibility. Machrider is a possibility as well, but that's only because his name popped up near the leaks I find plausible. Another possibility is that it actually does belong to your Mii. Since your 3ds only holds your personal data, the whole customization menu could be totally separate from all the other menu's and the Mii on the roster would always give you your own Mii that you customized somewhere else. With so many options to fill the slot, I prefer to just assume that fifth missing character doesn't exist and is just a personal Mii slot.


Anyway, this is the final roster I deem most likely. It's not meant to be taken as the truth but as a realistic take on what the final roster imho is gonna look like. Feel free to discuss.

 

[Storm Eagle]

I dislike the idea of DLC used other than for extra alternate costumes. It is a fighting game that has a competitive scene, so having characters added in later would change things up competitively.

What a stupid reason to not have DLC. Oh, the poor competetive scene of Smash 4, that doesn't even exist yet!

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I dislike the idea of DLC used other than for extra alternate costumes. It is a fighting game that has a competitive scene, so having characters added in later would change things up competitively.

If only this were a fighting game that the DLC would be releasing for. But even then, fighting games do that all the time.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

I'm getting really sick of seeing the unbelievably bad pic of Mewtwo on the stupid fake leak that has been posted a trillion times!

 

[Lord Goomy]

Nice double post.

All they have to do is start showing what's exclusive to the wii to get it selling. Better graphics and online capabilities alone are gonna do that. There's no reason to withhold characters, especially since they're going to be on the 3DS as well. So it's not even an exclusive deal to look forward to since you wouldn't even need the Wii U version to partake in it.

Now that you say it that way, I think you're right. I guess I just never thought about it like that.

Oh, and sorry about the double post, guess I just wasn't thinking about it.​

 

[brawlerdude]

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the rating was made public before that trailer.

Again, your argument is flawed. The games they come from have would have no bearing on whether they were shown or not. Ridley is a genocidal pirate, Ganondorf is a tyrannical warlock, and Mewtwo is a violent clone whose most well known depiction slaughtered an entire island full of scientists.

Show me something substantial for why Ridley would NEED to be shown specifically but something like Mewtwo wouldn't. Using Ganondorf as your evidence proves nothing unless you can prove that's why Ganondorf was also shown.

EDIT: Just checked. First reference to Smash 3DS' rating was mid July.

I don't have anything substantial. I'm going off of pure speculation at this point, and the fact that Shulk's trailer is the first one to show the game's rating. However, the ESRB, as stated on their website, rates a game based off of an online questionnaire and a DVD showcasing the game's most extreme content and the game's context.

I would just be to keep hype up and keep people focusing on the game with rampant speculation. Basically, they want people looking forward to the wii u version rather than becomiing content with the 3ds version. This, of course, doesn't mean that everyone will, but there's a possibility that some might.


It honestly doesn't matter what you like, it's what makes sense for Nintendo to do as a business. There is also the fact that the wii u version is going to probably be the main competitive version, and the main idea of this theory is that these extra characters would be included on-disc for that version.

It makes no sense for Nintendo to have extra characters on the WiiU version, when they've already said the rosters will be the same on both versions. And if they were to release them for the 3DS version later, what would be the point in holding off on them? To build hype? As has been previously stated, does it not have enough hype?

What a stupid reason to not have DLC. Oh, the poor competetive scene of Smash 4, that doesn't even exist yet!

1. Rude
2. My reasoning aside, why would they need to hold off on characters? With these kinds of games, they select the roster before they do just about anything else. Sonic was an exception in Brawl. If they had more characters to release, the only reason they'd need to do DLC is if the character(s) were planned on being released with the game, but had difficulties being implemented and they didn't want to delay again.

 

[Zango]

I don't think Ridley will be in. For one, he was "shown" immediately after Sakurai talked about Yellow Devil, and it even had the caption "Other boss character appearances." The leak from a week ago is definitely real, simply based on 2 things:
1. The render of Shulk in the leak is the exact same pose as the render on the official website.
2. The nametag "ESRB0083" kept popping up in the leak, and we got a rating as of the Shulk trailer: E10+

Because it was the ESRB build, they needed to show the most questionable things in the game that may or may not have affected the rating. If Ridley, a giant flying monster, was in, the ESRB would've seen it. Mewtwo, however, is from a kid-friendly E-rated franchise, and I don't doubt he'll come back, especially if we are getting Dr Mario back. As for Duck Hunt Dog, 2 words: Punching. Bag.

Ridley was in Brawl and I don't think its rating suffered any for it.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Not sure if anybody if anyone is still discussing potential final rosters based on the leak, but here's my expectation:

Spoiler

So what am I basing this on? Well, obviously the leak and that the order changes up when everyone is unlocked, but other than that.

The Trophy Quiz theory.
Not sure if this was still on peoples minds, but the smash direct had a very particular random thing in it. Four breaks that had a little quiz that made you guess a trophy ala "Who's this Pokemon?". It was particularly interesting since it really was a very random thing in the whole direct, everything else in that direct was purely to give info about the game except those breaks. I personally, and I'm sure others with me, believe that nothing that Sakurai does is random and that that seemingly random trophy quiz isn't random at all, but was a very specific tease of Sakurai of what new characters are still coming. So there were four trophies from four particular franchises: Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Metroid and Zelda. So far after that direct we've seen two character reveals that are part of these franchises, namely Palutena from KI and Robin from FE. That leaves us with two more franchises that should get a new character, Metroid and Zelda. I know this is of course a theory, but for me it's a 100% confirm on that we'll get a new Zelda and Metroid rep, there is literally no doubt in my mind and no argument is ever gonna convince me otherwise unless it's the real full roster of course.

So, why Ridley and Impa? Well, simply because of all the random leaks surrounding this leak. I was specifically looking for leaks that had at least a Zelda and Metroid character on it, and the few who did mentioned Impa and Ridley together. This is also why Dixie and Mewtwo are on there, because those two got mentioned alongside Impa and Ridley a lot. Machrider seems to be mentioned alongside them as well sometimes, but since that happened inconsistently I left him of the roster for now.

So why Mii's in the bottom-left? Tbh I put them there as a wildcard. We've been shown a separate menu for the Mii's so I don't actually think they would appear on the roster. That said, a lot of options are still left. As a Sal leak supporter I still feel like the the Chorus Kids/Marshel has a real chance of appearing, but since that leak was either fake or very outdated they can be either real, fake or cut so it's just an possibility. Machrider is a possibility as well, but that's only because his name popped up near the leaks I find plausible. Another possibility is that it actually does belong to your Mii. Since your 3ds only holds your personal data, the whole customization menu could be totally separate from all the other menu's and the Mii on the roster would always give you your own Mii that you customized somewhere else. With so many options to fill the slot, I prefer to just assume that fifth missing character doesn't exist and is just a personal Mii slot.


Anyway, this is the final roster I deem most likely. It's not meant to be taken as the truth but as a realistic take on what the final roster imho is gonna look like. Feel free to discuss.

This is insanely likey, imo.

 

[Lord Goomy]

It makes no sense for Nintendo to have extra characters on the WiiU version, when they've already said the rosters will be the same on both versions. And if they were to release them for the 3DS version later, what would be the point in holding off on them? To build hype? As has been previously stated, does it not have enough hype?

Because imagine how the internet would explode if we got the 3ds version and were convinced that this was the final roster, and then Nintendo blows our minds saying that there are still more characters on the way. That's instant hype and publicity, especially if they revealed one of the hype 3 at the same time.

 

[Captain Norris]

Spoiler

Check out his Valiantium Blade!

Honestly only liked it cause of that Wonderful 101 reference. Hehe great game.
Anyways, has anything new been uncovered? I am expecting that Sakurai will still find a way to confirm this leak even more after the Pic of the Day tonight.

 

[Skyfox2000]

What gives Sonic more priority than Snake is that Nintendo has the rights to multiple Sonic exclusives for the coming years. Sega and Nintendo have a very close bond right now in the form of Sonic.

Exclusive. Exclusive. Exclusives. That's all I hear you do know there isn't a Metal Gear game made every year don't you?

 

[ptrk83]

You guys are going to feel very, very, very..empty when the official list comes out.. lol.. But then you can just hype about new techs/combos/tiers ^_^

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Because imagine how the internet would explode if we got the 3ds version and were convinced that this was the final roster, and then Nintendo blows our minds saying that there are still more characters on the way. That's instant hype and publicity, especially if they revealed one of the hype 3 at the same time.

Yeah, that'd be awesome, unless they were already complete characters that were withheld because reasons.

You guys are going to feel very, very, very..empty when the official list comes out.. lol.. But then you can just hype about new techs/combos/tiers ^_^

Meh, I prefer characters. Still I don't see how anyone can feel empty. Approx. 50 characters is still awesome.

 

[Lord Goomy]

Yeah, that'd be awesome, unless they were already complete characters that were withheld because reasons.

It's true that would suck if they didn't release fully complete characters, but every other smash game has had characters that the dev team couldn't quite finish in time, and I'm sure this one will be no different. Wouldn't it be better if they kept working on characters they couldn't finish and release them later instead of cutting them like they have in the past?

 

[MarquisPhantom]

Exclusive. Exclusive. Exclusives. That's all I hear you do know there isn't a Metal Gear game made every year don't you?

Yeah but even if it did it more than likely wouldn't make it any closer to Nintendo. Ask yourself, when you think of Metal Gear Solid, what console comes to mind? I'm sure that your honest answer would not be a Nintendo console.

 

[Skyfox2000]

11 days left. Until JP Launch.

 

[cmbsfm]

Yeah but even if it did it more than likely wouldn't make it any closer to Nintendo. Ask yourself, when you think of Metal Gear Solid, what console comes to mind? I'm sure that your honest answer would not be a Nintendo console.

What console do you think of when you hear "Sonic the Hedgehog" or Pacman? Probably not a nintendo console.

 

[Homsar3]

This leak is hyping me up so much that I need to ask a question. If given the opportunity, should I get a Japanese 3DS, and copy of Smash, to hold myself over until the US launch, or ride out the mind numbing, education filled month wait for Smash 4?

 

[Phaazoid]

This leak is hyping me up so much that I need to ask a question. If given the opportunity, should I get a Japanese 3DS, and copy of Smash, to hold myself over until the US launch, or ride out the mind numbing, education filled month wait for Smash 4?

Are you willing to spring ~200$ to play smash a month early? Really only you can answer the question if it's worth it or not.

 

[Raijinken]

Wonder if we're going to get some more drip leaks before release.

Either way, here's hoping for everyone's favorite space pterodactyl, blond psychic kid, ice-breaking duo, and giant tyrannical crocodile (or alligator?). Just please no chorus things.

 

[cmbsfm]

You're forgetting the strong possibility that the final five characters will be included as free dlc at the time of the wii u launch, which would make sense as this would build massive amounts of hype. In this case dlc doesn't have to be rated, or is rated separately, meaning Ridley's absence would make sense. And honestly, Mewtwo is the character that makes the most sense to be one of the final five, considering the massive amount of demand from both Japan and everywhere else.

The 5 character slots don't have to be dlc. Mario Kart 8 added 5 extra slots to the roster with dlc.

 

[SANCHOCO]

What console do you think of when you hear "Sonic the Hedgehog" or Pacman? Probably not a nintendo console.

Sonic(if the 3 game exclusivity deal didn't happen): Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony
Pac-man-Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft

So yeah I(one person) would think a Nintendo console and other consoles

 

[Lord Goomy]

The 5 character slots don't have to be dlc. Mario Kart 8 added 5 extra slots to the roster with dlc.

I'm not saying that they have to be, it's just something that could possibly happen.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

As far as the whole "Ridley would have to be shown" argument goes, we know that Ridley IS already in the game, even if it's only as a stage boss. If he really had to be shown, he could've just been shown as a stage boss.

Seeing as the leaker didn't reveal that part (which, you'd think he would, considering how much it would explode the community), it's fairly safe to say that Ridley did not need to be shown to the ESRB.

Edit: Nvm Pyrosphere's not in the 3DS version I'm an idiot

 

[Skyfox2000]

Sonic(if the 3 game exclusivity deal didn't happen): Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony
Pac-man-Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft

So yeah I(one person) would think a Nintendo console and other consoles

Uhh. How about 3rd Party since there all 3rd Parties.

 

[cmbsfm]

Sonic(if the 3 game exclusivity deal didn't happen): Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony
Pac-man-Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft

So yeah I(one person) would think a Nintendo console and other consoles

I meant to say if you asked some one what console they think of when you hear "Sonic the hedgehog", they'll probably say sega genesis. I mean sure, they're not in the console business, but still. I mean, if you ask besides sega,I guess you'd get nintendo or sony.

I don't about pac man tbh he's everywhere lol.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

I still don't understand how today's POTD means there are unknown characters left. How do we know the leaked picture of the locked All-Star Mode was taken at the same time as the CSS?