Possible new Ivysaur AT discovered

[Zigsta]

I sadly have no video of this, but I believe I discovered a new AT with Ivysaur while fighting my friend's Meta Knight on Smashville. He was below me, and I daired...but Ivysaur fell extremely fast to the ground as he used the dair. I was above the height of the traveling platform and connected Ivysaur's dair with Meta Knight just as he hit the ground despite the fact that I input Ivysaur's dair at the aforementioned height. I have no idea exactly how it happened, but I was completely shocked when I did this. The dair came out very fast; my friend couldn't react in time and was sent flying.

Has anyone else ever seen something like this? If I can pull this off again, I'll get a replay.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I don't get it...

 

[Zigsta]

I don't get it...

I'm probably just not being clear enough, haha.

Basically, I inputted Ivysaur's dair high in the air--Ivysaur's mid-air height was above the level of the floating platform on Smashville. Instead of using the dair around the mid-air level Ivysaur was in, he fell very fast while using the dair so that by the time it actually came out, Ivysaur was just about to hit the ground.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Hmmm... Kinda cool... If you can get this on a replay and send it to me, I'll upload it

 

[TEECO]

So it worked almost like a Game&Watch Dair in terms of movement?

I think I have seen this with Ivysaur, but im not sure at all. Are you sure you just weren't just fast falling?

 

[Zigsta]

So it worked almost like a Game&Watch Dair in terms of movement?

I think I have seen this with Ivysaur, but im not sure at all. Are you sure you just weren't just fast falling?

Yeah, it was pretty much as fast as a Game & Watch dair; it could have been a tad bit slower. I wasn't fastfalling it, as my original intention was to dair in order to stall my momentum to throw my friend's Meta Knight off slighty, seeing as he was intent on juggling me.

 

[TEECO]

Ohhh I see.
Toy with it man, this could lead to basically a whole new move with Ivysuar.

 

[Toby.]

I've done this many times, and a long time ago I sat down and figured out why it happens.

Since I never incorporated it into my game I can't even remember what causes it anymore

I'll go play around with it again and see if I can remember.

 

[•Col•]

I've seen this before, happened to me with Lucario's dair all the time.

It has to you being hit by your opponent or something... I think it's so that when you get hit by your opponent, momentum-affecting aerials wont do anything, otherwise you could just use them to stop you momentum from being hit out of bounds while you're at 999%. xD So yeah.. If you get hit up into the air, then dair quickly, it's momentum-stopping property wont take effect. Anyway, not completely sure about what I just said... But it sounds kinda right, so whatever...

Also, since you probably used the cstick for the dair... Whenever using a dair with the cstick when it's set to "Smash", it will execute a dair and make you fast fall. However, since Ivysaur's dair stops his momentum, it doesn't really matter that the cstick dair would make you fast fall. But... In this certain situation, the dair didn't stop your momentum, so you fastfalled, which is why it seemed so fast.

 

[Kitamerby]

As Colaya said, Momentum-altering aerials do not take effect while in knockback, or after a powershield iirc. (I know Lucario can rising Dair oos out of a powershield, never tried it with others.)

Anyways, yeah. You can even fastfall moves like Lucario's Dair, or Ivysaur's Dair during this situation.

Fun fact. Lucario's Dair has landing lag.

 

[Zigsta]

Also, since you probably used the cstick for the dair... Whenever using a dair with the cstick when it's set to "Smash", it will execute a dair and make you fast fall. However, since Ivysaur's dair stops his momentum, it doesn't really matter that the cstick dair would make you fast fall. But... In this certain situation, the dair didn't stop your momentum, so you fastfalled, which is why it seemed so fast.

I never use the C-Stick for my aerials, though.

 

[Bomber7]

Sounds a bit interesting, I'm still feeling in the dark a little on the whole thing but I'm sure a video will pop up soon and it will be cleared up.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I actually do this very often.

The thing about Dair for Ivysaur is that the falling momentum is canceled normally on a natural fall Dair. However, Fast fall takes more priority than the momentum cancel on Dair, so when you fast fall and then use Dair, you keep going since Fastfall is apparently more important than the bulb blast.

This is the normal Dair:

↓ + A

However, when you marginally press down before A, you initiate fast fall without really knowing it. And though you seem like you are pressing the two keys at the same time, the game registers that you pressed:

↓ , ↓ + A

Thus you fast fall before you do the move.

As for the use of the move, it actually extends the hitbox of the move, so it has wider range since Ivysaur's Dair has a couple of lingering hitbox frames, when you fastfall and use the move, you are essentially exted the hitbox by however much Ivysaur moves during those frames which the hitbox lasts. This includes the spiking sweetspot.

However, the bad thing about it is the fact that since the spike sweetspot is at the bulb of the attack, when you fastfall and Dair, the spiking sweetspot goes only slightly above Ivysaur, so it's use doesn't extend it horizontally, but vertically. Though I don't know really if this has any viable point in battle.

This extending of the attack applies to all characters as long as they have a lingering Hitbox. This method is used a lot for Zelda's Fair and Bair since it extends the sweet spot of her lightning kick.

 

[Bomber7]

that's a pretty clear explanation. Interesting. I'll see if I can do it when I pick brawl up again in 2 weeks, by then I will be done with school and can play brawl again.

 

[Zigsta]

Awesome, canvas. That makes a lot of sense. That's exactly what I experienced.