Pokemon Trainer Move Tier List (Squirtle's List Up For Review)

[Vermy]

So I've seen a few of these move set tier lists floating around, and I thought I'd do one, but with all us PT Mains' input.

I'll be doing every Pokemon's List individually, and move on to the next when we have a general consensus.

First up, here's Squirtle's Move Tier List Version 1.0!

S Tier:
Jab combo
Forward Air
Back Air

A Tier:
Forward Tilt
Up Air
Neutral Air

B Tier:
Up Smash
Up Tilt
Down Throw

C Tier
Down Air
Up Throw
Forward Throw

D Tier:
Down Smash
Neutral B
Up B

E Tier:
Back Throw
Forward Smash
Dash Attack

F Tier:
Down Tilt
Down B
Side B

 

[Tien2500]

Meh. These things are generally pointless but while I'm here.

Squirtle

1. Fair
2. Jabs
3. Bair
4. ftilt
5. Dthrow

Ivysaur

1. Bair
2.Nair
3. Bullet seed
4. Razor leaf
5. Dtilt

Charizard

1. Rock Smash
2. Flamethrower
3. Usmash
4. Dtilt
5. Bair

 

[anax4aero]

Squirtle:
1. Fair
2. Jabs
3. Dthrow
4. Ftilt
5. Bair
Worst: Down B

Ivy:
1. Nair
2. BS
3. RL
4. Bair
5. VW
Worst: Jab

Zard:
1. Dtilt
2. Bair
3. RS
4. Usmash
5. Fthrow
Worst: Dash

 

[typh]

this is silly

i can guarantee you that stuff like bullet seed and charizard's dthrow and fair are going to be top 10

 

[Miles.]

Ivysaur Upsmash 5,000.

 

[MR.3]

water Turtle
1.U-Smash
2.Jabs
3.Dair
4.F-tilt
5.Fair
Worse:Water gun


Leaf dinosaur
1.Bullet seed
2.U-smash
3.Dair
4.razor leaf
5.F-tilt
worse:vine whip

Fire dragon
1.F-smash
2.flamethrower
3.rock smash
4.fly
5.D-throw
worse:jab

 

[Vermy]

Ok, after half a day of this, I realised I'm too much of a lazy, intolerant git to do all this every time someone posts. Instead, I'm just gonna post my own tier list in the original post, and you guys can critique it. This should not be taken as a definitive list, but rather an idea of what moves are abusable and which are unusable.
Check back soonish.

 

[typh]

Leaf dinosaur
1.Bullet seed
2.U-smash
3.Dair
4.razor leaf
5.F-tilt
worse:vine whip

Fire dragon
1.F-smash
2.flamethrower
3.rock smash
4.fly
5.D-throw
worse:jab

score one for bullet seed and dthrow

jesus christ

 

[Retro Gaming]

Why is Squirtle's Utilt not mentioned in this thread until now? I think it's his best ground attack, closely followed by Ftilt and then Jabs.

 

[Tien2500]

I think Utilt range is pretty limited. Its a move I need to be using more but can't really land all that consistently.

I'd say Dthrow has to be A tier at least. Hear me out. I know its not a move you should be throwing around alot but it is Squirtles most reliable KO move and his best option to set up a switch. Its an intregal part of his moveset even if its not a move you're using too much. Think of how much worse Squirtle would be if he had a weaker Dthrow.

 

[Vermy]

Squirtles dthrow is still very situational, and as such you can't throw (pun unintended) it around alot. The moves listed above Dthrow are simply more versatile.

Also take into consideration that dthrow also does the least damage. 6% iirc.

@retro: I love utilt. <3 At low % it juggles EVERYONE. Not many characters can boast that one. As aforementioned, its got limited range. Ftilt is more abusable imo. Ftilt can also be used to lock an opponent against a wall, or aid in a jab lock. But maybe utilt does need to be higher..

 

[Tien2500]

Squirtles dthrow is still very situational, and as such you can't throw (pun unintended) it around alot. The moves listed above Dthrow are simply more versatile.

Also take into consideration that dthrow also does the least damage. 6% iirc.

@retro: I love utilt. <3 At low % it juggles EVERYONE. Not many characters can boast that one. As aforementioned, its got limited range. Ftilt is more abusable imo. Ftilt can also be used to lock an opponent against a wall, or aid in a jab lock. But maybe utilt does need to be higher..

Well Dthrow isn't really used for racking damage. It may be situational but its absolutely essential to Squirtle's moveset. If the tier list is about the moves you should use the most then obviously not but if its about value to the overal moveset thats different.

 

[Retro Gaming]

@retro: I love utilt. <3 At low % it juggles EVERYONE. Not many characters can boast that one. As aforementioned, its got limited range. Ftilt is more abusable imo. Ftilt can also be used to lock an opponent against a wall, or aid in a jab lock. But maybe utilt does need to be higher..

I didn't post the bit about Utilt in reference to your actual full list, but moreso toward the posts following it. However, I consider Utilt to be a much more important move to Squirtle than simply as a low percent juggle. Even after its juggle capabilities are gone, I've recently found that if I hit with Utilt that I almost get a Nair, Fair/Bair, maybe even Dair right after it, as well. Sometimes at low percents versus the lighter characters I just forego the Utilt juggle and do like Utilt, Nair, try to get a grab or another Utilt, then follow up with more of the same or Uthrow to Uair stuff. I don't know if my opponents are just really stupid (probably) but Utilt is like the ultimate aerial set-up besides Uthrow, I think. I consider Utilt to be better than Ftilt because it puts them in the air, which I would rather have, than keeping them near the ground, which is what Ftilt does.

Also, now that I take a good look at your list, I think that dash attack is actually better than Fsmash/Dsmash, but I never really use any of those moves so that probably doesn't mean much. I actually think Dtilt is an under-rated move, but not by much. It has good things going for it, like the ability to shield poke, probably good versus spot dodge, and I like to use it near the ledge sometimes. It does good damage and sends them kind of at an upward angle, so that has to be worth something. Overall, though, its just too hard to actually get to hit, so its still not good.

 

[T-block]

Are these ordered within tiers as well?

- d-air to B tier
- d-smash over u-throw
- dash attack over forward smash
- withdraw over pokemon change

 

[Magik0722]

Squirtles utilt not SS tier? this is silly

 

[Kingdom Come]

I agree with Magik. If your a Utilt ***** it makes a world of difference. Also, Dthrow should be S Tier

 

[Steeler]

squirtle stole utilt from ssb64, i swear

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

Bv and Dair needs to be higher.

Bv gives you Ivysaur and Dair is good for shield pressuring if you cross it.

 

[Vermy]

@ithinkaboutivysaur:
Yeah, but down b gives you ivysaur lol. As much as I love the little plant frog, there are hardly any times where switching to ivysaur would be advantageous. (With the exception of stock tanking, sacrificing and if you're vs marth/ike/yoshi)

So far, I'm hearing:
utilt to A or S tier
Dair ^
Dthrow ^
Dsmash ^

I'm also thinking dtilt may be underrated. Thoughts?

 

[Magik0722]

dtilt is good but situational

 

[Steeler]

dtilt isn't a 'bad' move but i don't think squirtle has much use for it because ftilt and jab are so ****. it doesn't last long enough to punish spotdodges...the only thing is that it can shield poke, but i'd rather just grab you out of your shield.

 

[Kingdom Come]

Ivy's Dtilt > Warios Bike, Snake DAC

 

[Vermy]

Ivys dtilt is amazing, but we're talking about squirtles lol.

 

[Tien2500]

dtilt is good but situational

In what situation would you use it? Overall I've found very few situations where dtilt is preferable to ftilt unless for some reason I was already ducking.

 

[Magik0722]

really only when your opponent is low on sheild

 

[SilverSpark]

Squirtle's Down B should be Bottom Tier :]

 

[Magik0722]

naw its pretty good to sacrifice squirtle so he can appear again later in the game

 

[CoonTail]

S Tier:
Jab combo
Forward Air
Back Air

A Tier:
Forward Tilt
U-Air
N-Air
Up Tilt

B Tier:
U-Smash
Down Throw
D-Air

C Tier
Forward Throw
D-smash
Dash Attack
Neutral B

D Tier:
Up B
U-Throw
F-smash

E Tier:
Back Throw
D-Tilt
Side B

F Tier:
Down B

My reasoning for the difference in mine against everyone else's is in my meta this is more my tier list. U tilt got bumped up on my list because it is a ridiculous combo starter and I dont have a problem getting in due to squirtles hydroplaning. Next D-air went up because of good shield pressure and honestly it links at the end of combos off the stage for quick kills.

My C Tier needs the biggest explanation, I moved D-smash way up because personally I reverse shift D-smash edgeguard at alot and its gotten me ALOT of early % kills due to the crouch cancelled type angle it sends you out on. Dash Attack manages to edge guard nicely for me too because it and D-smash hit through ledge attack animation(Hope Im not wrong on this it has just worked for me) and watergun I find myself using alot even in a non gimping manner, I use it to push people away from the edge as i return I use it like marios fludd to push me closer to the stage I use it to stop strong momentum based attacks from connecting(I managed to watergun an Ike during his quickdraw getting him to stop in front of me and get D-Throwed to death so watergun is higher in my list).

Last two mentions I dont U throw enough so its lower on my list but should be raised up....if f-smash wasnt so ridiculously hard to land Id raise it up cause I love it but **** its difficult. I mean the super armor if you do it right makes it an impossible attack to stop if you attack it. Lastly Down B is F-Tier change to Ivy sucks in all situations for me when Im in squirtle mode because I mainly do it to sacrifice Ivy in the MK matchup.....not something I like to do so it makes it F-Tier but it is necesary in the MK matchup.

 

[T-block]

imo d-air is better than n-air >_>

i love that move

 

[Steeler]

dair is better usually, i like nair at middle percents because it can set up a jab lock though.

 

[Miles.]

stop making threads that make me want to kill myself.

unless .... you want me too DDIIIIEEEE!!!


urrr mean!!!

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

Lol I think that when Ivysaur's comes that his Bv will be placed as his best move. =(

Is Nair really better than Dair? Why is Nair so good?

 

[Vermy]

Nair has greater range, no landing lag, is faster, and at early % can chain together well with other attacks.
Squirtle's Dair is good, but the landing lag and range make it more situational than nair.

 

[CoonTail]

Nair has greater range, no landing lag, is faster, and at early % can chain together well with other attacks.
Squirtle's Dair is good, but the landing lag and range make it more situational than nair.

I deffinitly agree with this but my problem is........ why would a good squirtle get landing lag on the d-air outside of mistake something that should minimally happen. So nothing against you vermiis I just never really find myself considering d-air worse due to landing lag......mainly because thats something that shouldnt be considered figuring it shouldnt happen IMO

 

[T-block]

Squirtle's d-air is multihit though =\ It's good shield pressure, it can punish spot dodges and air dodges, and the last hit sends your opponent out at a nice angle too. I wouldn't call it situational... it has a lot of uses, and as for landing lag, you don't always have to short hop it or do it into the ground.

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

Squirtle's nair even beats out Falco's B> and maybe some other recoverys.

 

[Steeler]

dair also beats phantasm but it seems like you have to space it so you hit with the tail and/or the final hitbox

 

[CoonTail]

The D-air and the n-air should be in equal tier both of which being A mainly due to the fact that both should and can be used to really rack together damage. N-air basically means the jab followup...... its has heavy armor(Dont have a link to the post but Im sure someone else around here remembers that info). N-air is a staple because of its speed its usefulness and it capability to link into the jab combo instantly.
D-air is directly next to n-air in usefulness, over the edge if an opponents shield is low is to good, hydrojump to D-air after a mid to late % f-throw. Dont forget the ability to link f-air to d-air offstage for an easy kill. The last thing about D-air I find top tier is the capability to control the way your opponent exits the move. As your hitting you opponent with the D-air you can pull it right or left because of squirtle's air skills. Because of this you can send you opponent out of either side of the attack and can also mindgame them because even if your in the middle of them connecting you can pull yourself in either direction on the last hit and still have them leave the attack from the side you intended on. As magik showed in his new video's the D-air can clink zamus' up b also as steeler stated it knocks out of phantasm, I've seen alot of recoveries have been interupted by this attack. So D-air is really a move that might be more than you expect and mayb with a bit more experimentation and research could lead to a different opinion on it.

 

[T-block]

d-air is also really cool against metaknight's recovery.

now that i think about it though, i think i will start using n-air more. i hardly ever use it atm

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

dair also beats phantasm but it seems like you have to space it so you hit with the tail and/or the final hitbox

Really? A few days ago I played against some Falco and he kept recovering with his B> (Some people don't learn lol....) and I kept Dairing him out of it. And I'm sure I didn't use any special spacing or something.