Pokémon Trainer

[Big-Cat]

How many Marth players have even played Fire Emblem?

 

[DarkSouls]

Yeah, people play Squirtle a lot because he's fun to play. Charizard is decent, but his recover is way too sluggish. Ivysaur is just a pain (Sad, because I always liked the grass type starters).

 

[DakotaBonez]

It just wouldn't be right if Charizard didn't make a return. And although I used Ivysaur alot more, Charizard is just a better fit and constantly makes it in the top in polls for the best pokemon. It would be hard to let Ivysuar go but I really want to see Pokemon reps from newer generations! Or even older ones that were skipped on in smash bros like 2nd Generation Jhoto! I mean wouldn't Blaziken or Zoroark or even Turtwig and Genesect be happily recieved?

The pokemon that make it in should be based on popularity.
Although most dont care for a mid-evolved pokemon like Ivysaur I'll miss his unique style and cheap neutral special that racks up 40%, but I can understand the hate he recieves being generally looked over.

Geez the way I say it makes it seem like Ivysaur and Squirtle are done for. But Gen 1 is the most popular so it wouldn't be surprising if they returned.

 

[SmashShadow]

Squirtle was the most fluid of the 3 and was the easiest to use so a majority of the time I played as him. If they were gonna make charizard that heavy when jumping he should've gotten 5 jumps. And personally I just don't like playing with characters that have tether recovery's.

 

[kisamefishfries]

2) Individual health and stock:
How this will work is that each pokemon will have their own % when you swap, so if Squirtle is at 100%, swapping to Ivy will have her at the % she was when she was last out. This will encourage switching more often as you literally start off fresh as you swap, and lets you save a pokemon for later.

Forced switch upon defeat is still in, as when a pokemon is defeated, you are now locked out of switching to them, making up for how you can swap around to change your %. In the event of a non-stock match, or match where there are more than 3 stocks, it works like the SSE when you have an extra life: the extra stock goes to the first man out. Timed matches could have some sort of timer penalty to swap them back in as well as Red is seen using a Revive on the pokemon.

I have a problem with this, 5 life battle 4player free for all. I pick squirtle I nimbly dodge until I am about 50% and most are on life two, I then switch to Ivysaur and get in some lucky kills, once Ivysaur is up to about 75-90% I go back to squirtle, hit and run tactics until he dies. Then I charizard it up. I am on life two, everyone else is on life 3-4. Charizards a tank so as long as I can stay center field I should be able to ride him out to another all the way around death. Back to Ivysaur, probably a quick death but you can probably make it all around to 1 but you or knock someone out. I now have 2 lives to everyones 1/0 and I can call upon ivysaur followed by charizard for an easy victory. This gives some unfair starting potential and could cause some serious BS in -3 stock battles.

Also- Charizard IMO was awful, even his flying was slow and mediocre. If I remember didn't Charizard have brilliant speed in the tv show? Since when is he Golem? hes a good tank which is why i specified at center field above. But tanks don't have to be that slow. Everyone loves Charizard, thats why he was in the game. But Blastoise should be the tank... not someone who is supposed to fly around at quick speeds, flip the water and fire.

 

[Phaazoid]

Oh god please keep Charizard mother of god he is the best pokemon ever and forever

That is all.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Edit: nvm, wrong thread. How do I delete posts?

 

[jigglover]

All the Pokemon are good

How was it awful?

Take away stamina and Pokemon Trainer is useless, there would just be a bunch of Charizards running around.

I don't think that charizard is the best... He's too damn slow to be usable right from the get-go, also I just find him awkard with his heaviness and wings, I find recovering easily difficult if you know what I mean... Anywho... I belive that squirtle IS too weak, but only marginally, and his super speed makes him my 2nd favourite by a margin. Ivysaur is brilliant. I love him, he's usable, and his recovery is oddly satisfying, he's got an incredible balance between power and speed, and his aerial game is amazing, I believe that him on the flying type part of ps2 is practically unbeatable.

 

[kisamefishfries]

Some like squirtle because he was a starter, Charizard was a final form a starter. Ivysaur was that middle phase where you were like JUST EVOLVE AGAIN! So any middle pokemon is going to be bad. Wartortle though is probably the best bet. Bulbasaur Wartortle and Charizard would be a nice change.

 

[jigglover]

Some like squirtle because he was a starter, Charizard was a final form a starter. Ivysaur was that middle phase where you were like JUST EVOLVE AGAIN! So any middle pokemon is going to be bad. Wartortle though is probably the best bet. Bulbasaur Wartortle and Charizard would be a nice change.

The middle character is always going to be the best character for begginers though, basic pokemon will focus on speed, sage 2 will focus on power, so the middle will have a balance between the two, not saying I'm a beginner, but ivysaur's quite like yoshi, but yoshis a little better, so I use him as a side thing with ivysaur. I also use luigi a lot, so I think I have a thing for green characters!!?!?

 

[jigglover]

To be honest i think people only use this guy for Charizard the other 2 were cool...but just not as cool and popular as charizard so why not in this game make charizard his own distinct character and give the pokemon trainer three new poke's like say piplup, grotle and infernape. Infernape getting a unique moveset while piplup and grotle inherit a lot of squirtle and ivysaur's set??

Piplup doesn't have a shell, and a lot of squirtle's attacks use it, also it knows barely any moves which squirtle knows as well. Grotle can't grow vines, shoot deadly flowers, use bullet seed out of it's back (albeit via his mouth), so the only move he can inherit is razor leaf, and in all honesty, it's kind of crap.

 

[Bowserlick]

Ivysaur needs the most work if they decide to keep the original three. He should inflict some status elements. The game has an effect that places a FLOWER on an opponents head when they are POISONED. How did the poison, grass type not get this ability?

Maybe instead of his lame down Smash, Ivysaur could release a purple fog of poison from his flower. The larger the charge, the bigger the radius. No knock back, but the duration of contact with the gas creates a larger damage-adding flower on the foe's head.

 

[Veggi]

Ivysaur needs the most work if they decide to keep the original three. He should inflict some status elements. The game has an effect that places a FLOWER on an opponents head when they are POISONED. How did the poison, grass type not get this ability?

Maybe instead of his lame down Smash, Ivysaur could release a purple fog of poison from his flower. The larger the charge, the bigger the radius. No knock back, but the duration of contact with the gas creates a larger damage-adding flower on the foe's head.

Honestly it pissed me off that Ivysaur didn't have poison or stun options, like...seriously? Sakurai couldn't use status ailments that were already in the game and add them to Ivysaur's moves? But I guess it's okay to give poison to Jigglypuff's down b. Oh my gosh, Sakurai's character move sets piss me off.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The flower element isn't poison-based. White Pikmin are poison-based. Dealing extra damage on top of the initial hit isn't inherently poison.

 

[Veggi]

Dealing extra damage after the hit is easily passable as poison. It's just not considered "poison" by this game. The flower has the exact same functionality as "poison" in any other game. Having the purple effect that does DoT would work or the flower. It doesn't matter. Anything that would function the same way as poison.

 

[jigglover]

I hadn't that since now, but of course smash bros. needs to show off his poison capabilities! It's stupid really.

 

[Opossum]

One thing I remember from the SSE was the Poison Smog that had a flower-like effect. Maybe something like that?

 

[JOE!]

I have a problem with this, 5 life battle 4player free for all. I pick squirtle I nimbly dodge until I am about 50% and most are on life two, I then switch to Ivysaur and get in some lucky kills, once Ivysaur is up to about 75-90% I go back to squirtle, hit and run tactics until he dies. Then I charizard it up. I am on life two, everyone else is on life 3-4. Charizards a tank so as long as I can stay center field I should be able to ride him out to another all the way around death. Back to Ivysaur, probably a quick death but you can probably make it all around to 1 but you or knock someone out. I now have 2 lives to everyones 1/0 and I can call upon ivysaur followed by charizard for an easy victory. This gives some unfair starting potential and could cause some serious BS in -3 stock battles.

Also- Charizard IMO was awful, even his flying was slow and mediocre. If I remember didn't Charizard have brilliant speed in the tv show? Since when is he Golem? hes a good tank which is why i specified at center field above. But tanks don't have to be that slow. Everyone loves Charizard, thats why he was in the game. But Blastoise should be the tank... not someone who is supposed to fly around at quick speeds, flip the water and fire.

with < 3 stocks, you would be limited to that amount of mons, and while it gives you a strong start you have to remember that as you lose stocks, you actually lose access to pokemon as well which can be a game changer

 

[Newguyoo0]

Does Smash 4 really need to recreate the flower effect for poison? Why can't they make the character flash purple or something when they're poisoned?

I like the idea of down smash being Poison Powder.
I also gotta admit, I had no complaints with Red in Brawl. If Nintendo remakes the same exact way, with the same exact pokemon I'd be a happy camper.

 

[Bowserlick]

Does Smash 4 really need to recreate the flower effect for poison? Why can't they make the character flash purple or something when they're poisoned?

I like the idea of down smash being Poison Powder.
I also gotta admit, I had no complaints with Red in Brawl. If Nintendo remakes the same exact way, with the same exact pokemon I'd be a happy camper.

The flower effect is not needed in the Fourth Edition. However, I was just surprised that there was a flower visual for a damage-over-time effect in Smash Brawl, but it was not given to the Poison/Grass type fighter who uses damage-over-time attacks in it's games.

 

[Big-Cat]

I like the idea of Ivysaur being a status ailment dealer. It's not something that's been done in Smash. He has the potential keepaway normals with his vines. Then there's the potential annoying moves like Leech Seed, Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, and Poison Powder that sadly aren't utilized.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, I'm not against the idea of a poison effect for Ivysaur. Perhaps if say some specific attack is used and you shield the attack, you still take some "poison damage"=??? That would give Ivysaur an added edge (which it really needs). It would allow Ivysaur to have an easier time doing damage at low damage percentages.

Also, vine whip needs to be about 25% longer IMHO.

 

[Big-Cat]

Stat attacks like the powders should be in the form of falling projectiles (see Arakune) or just straight forward projectiles.

BEES! My God...

 

[shinhed-echi]

I like the idea of having Ivy do status ailments too.
At least if they don't plan on doing anything to her recovery.

We can have confusion in the form of Dizzy (shield broken status)
Paralysis in the form of ZSS paralyzer gun.
Poison in the form of White Pikmin poison.
Sleep in the form of Jigglypuff's sing.


They can work with all of these that are already in the game.
They could probably even add new ones that drop defense (shield always comes out at half strength while on this status) or attack (all attacks are worn out while this status lasts).

They could do a lot for Ivy.


EDIT: I see the flower on the head more of a SORTA leech-seed (that doesn't recover energy).

EDIT2: I'm a tad disturbed by the ammount of PT hate on Smashboards. ._.
Why do you think he gets so much hate? Almost everybody wants to replace him. Ify ou ask me, he's the only Nintendo character that got me hype for Brawl.

 

[Sunnysunny]

We can have confusion in the form of Dizzy (shield broken status)
Paralysis in the form of ZSS paralyzer gun.
Poison in the form of White Pikmin poison.
Sleep in the form of Jigglypuff's sing.

Unfortunately 3 of those are incredibly similar to each other. Only difference is Dizzy and Sing can be mashed out of, while paralyze has set hitstun.

As much as I love the idea of making Ivy a status character, we'd need to vary the way her ailments work a bit.

Hows this.

Paralyze: Disable all of the enemies movement options. They are effectively frozen in place for a set amount of time and cannot run, walk, dodge, or jump. However they can still shield and attack. They're knocked out of paralyze if they either get hit, or hit there attack. It will also wear off naturally if left long enough. Will assist ivysaur greatly if she needs to switch. Also none of her grabs should be able to kill to early, otherwise this would be incredibly overpowered.

Confusion: Opponents inflicted with this have a 1/3rd of a second delay on everything they do for a set period of time. AKA, if you put in an input, it will come out slightly delayed. This applies for everything. Movement, shielding, and attack. Getting hit, or waiting it out will cure your confusion.

Sleep: Can stay as is. Puts opponent to sleep, but can be mashed out of. Gets harder to mash out of at high percents. If opponent is hit by a sleep move in the air, they can still move, and use there up-b until they hit the ground. When they hit the ground they fall asleep for half the duration. This is so that sleep won't be overpowered as a gimping tool.


How's that sound?
Actually i'm really digging this idea. Hold up. Im gonna make a moveset idea for ivy later that focuses around this idea as an ailment abuser.

Btw Echi. Only reason people are hating on PT is because of how poorly he was pulled off. He coulda been made way more interesting, but competitively he's weak, and pokemon he has plays a little....one dimensional. Atleast imo. If they make each pokemon a little more interesting next game i'd like him alot more.

 

[shinhed-echi]

How's that sound?
Actually i'm really digging this idea. Hold up. Im gonna make a moveset idea for ivy later that focuses around this idea as an ailment abuser.

Btw Echi. Only reason people are hating on PT is because of how poorly he was pulled off. He coulda been made way more interesting, but competitively he's weak, and pokemon he has plays a little....one dimensional. Atleast imo. If they make each pokemon a little more interesting next game i'd like him alot more.

I can't think of any other way for PT to work, unless he goes safari-mode on the whole roster. (Throwing food and stones, then pokeballs too).

Unless you mean lackluster movesets for the 3 pokemon in which case, I agree. (only 3 jumps for Charizard? I mean, really?)


I like your ideas a lot. But perhaps Paralysis is way too punishing (I admit Dizzy and Shieldbroken are very punishing too, lol). But, how about Paralysis puts your opponent into a "Single Button mode"? Meaning, you can't do specials.

OR It could also prevent the paralyzed victim from running (limiting his movements to a light jog at least). After all, paralysis did affect speed in Pokemon.

I like confusion too. I sort of took my reference from Mewtwo's disable, except that sucks.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Yeaaa, i'm talking about there movesets individually are a lil bland. They're all kinda one trick ponies.

Anywho, yea, I like your idea alot more. Taking away specials, and limiting them to a "walk" for a set period seems alot more balanced. Espicially considering one of Ivys biggest weakness is her slow speed. Actually, yea, thats a great idea man. :D

Hold up. I'll make a moveset tonight. Maaaybe for all 3. Not sure. But I definitely wanna make one for Ivy. Ailments in a fighting game are too fun~

 

[Big-Cat]

I can't think of any other way for PT to work, unless he goes safari-mode on the whole roster. (Throwing food and stones, then pokeballs.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think having the ability to tag out on hit and having the option to switch out to a specific Pokemon will make him a lot more appealing as a character. If you want some examples, look up Tekken Tag Tournament 2.

 

[Johnknight1]

Honestly, the Melee tether ledge grab needs to come back (so Ivysaur isn't trash). Plus, Ivysaur's vine whip (at least as a recovery) needs to go at least about 20% farther IMO.

Also, I will quote myself for great justice!!!....

Charizard weighs 199.5 pounds and is 5 feet, 7 inches tall.
Mewtwo weighs 269 pounds and is 6 feet, 7 inches tall. IMO Charizard should lose about 20% of his height and weight, then get some speed, more recovery jumps, and loads of cool (quick?) combos IMO. That would make him more interesting IMO.

 

[Veggi]

For paralysis, maybe the opponent could have the same yellow fuzz special effect as in the Pokemon games every time they can't move. The way it would work is every 2 seconds the opponent freezes for a fraction of a second, even if they are in the middle of performing a move. During the time the opponent is forced to stop moving, the yellow fuzz special effect is around them.

 

[MelMoe]

Just stopped by to say that Charizard's Gold, Silver, & Crystal shiny sprite should be used as the green palette swap.

Charizard's black shiny sprite should be made into the sixth color swap & the Trainer, Squirtle, & Ivysaur should gain dark swaps as well.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Wait, Dizzy?

You know what? That actually gives me an idea for a moveset for all three pokemon.
A little something to make PT a bit more viable.

For example, Squirtle's down B is switched from "Switch Pokemon" to "Rapid Spin"

In which case, Squirtle withdraws into his shell and spins, creating a mini-tornado disjointed hitbox.
The move has about 7 frames of ending-lag without a hitbox (squirtle just keeps spinning after the attack whiffs) making punishable if dodged or blocked, but if it hits, it puts the opponent into the "Shield broken" animation and then Squirtle immediately switches.

Then when Ivysaur comes out, she gets maybe a 8-10 frame window where the opponent is still in the Dizzy state, and she can do practially anything she wants to them. (Yes that means no more pesky vulerability window when the next pokemon comes out where you practially eat whatever Smash the opponent decides to charge at you)



And then Charizard can have a "burn" effect added to his sweet spots where the opponent starts taking damage over time.

Yes... Will definately make a moveset tonight ^^

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just stopped by to say that Charizard's Gold, Silver, & Crystal shiny sprite should be used as the green palette swap.

Charizard's black shiny sprite should be made into the sixth color swap & the Trainer, Squirtle, & Ivysaur should gain dark swaps as well.

If you asked me, that really doesn't look green enough to qualify as a green team coloration. It could always be treated as an extra color though.

 

[fogbadge]

as the pokemon trainers are the main characters of the main series games it's only fair the he returns

and would not be bothered if they updated him to a more recent trainer with newer pokemon i'd be happy with any of the trainers

 

[Bowserlick]

Ivysaur should have two vines that he/she uses during vine whip. One comes after the other, both with properties to hit and to connect to a ledge.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

^Forget any onther changes.

If they just did this, Ivy would be sooooo much better.


I'm still working in that newer moveset though.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

No, she should just be able to do multiple Up-Bs like Zamus can do. Make the Up-B hop smaller on each consecutive use.

 

[Claire Diviner]

No, she should just be able to do multiple Up-Bs like Zamus can do. Make the Up-B hop smaller on each consecutive use.

I agree with this; it would make it a little harder to edge-hog Ivy, while giving Ivy a better chance to knock the opponent off the ledge and getting a chance to grab it.

 

[Bowserlick]

No, she should just be able to do multiple Up-Bs like Zamus can do. Make the Up-B hop smaller on each consecutive use.

No. Ivysaur should have two vines that he/she uses during vine whip. One comes after the other, both with properties to hit and to connect to a ledge.

No need to copy moves exactly. Plus, this adds to Ivysaur's anti-aerial theme. The unique property also almost guarantees to block edge hogging.

 

[shinhed-echi]

No. Ivysaur should have two vines that he/she uses during vine whip. One comes after the other, both with properties to hit and to connect to a ledge.

No need to copy moves exactly. Plus, this adds to Ivysaur's anti-aerial theme. The unique property also almost guarantees to block edge hogging.

I like this idea of TWO vine whips instead of one.

But really, what would fix things for all characters who tether is to be able to do so like in Melee. Not to mention it is MUCH more interesting that way.


Probably mentioned this a dozen of times but... Charizard needs 5 jumps. That's all I'd really change about him.