PM Arts and Alts Thread

[Kaye Cruiser]

Link obviously needs his villager outfit from TP with a wooden sword.

I honestly wouldn't mind that since I actually like that outfit. XD

 

[Wiisnake]

Nah, it,s going to be naked Ness from Japanese Mother 2 obviously .

Haha, but the question still stands, is it possible to do with Ness?

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Lord Ike is a must, and I think a Shadow Dragon based Marth model is more than worthy, and the inspiration for that is a game from back in the 80's, so giving him a more "ancient" look shouldn't be anything controversial. Luigi is going to be Mr. L regardless, and will probably become the definitive model. Outside of that, Toon Link doesn't need anything more than casual wear imo, and Link is a valid topic of debate. ( I do really want to see something for him, now that the visual aspects of projectiles and weapons can be individually edited.)

 

[Wiisnake]

Lord Ike is a must, and I think a Shadow Dragon based Marth model is more than worthy, and the inspiration for that is a game from back in the 80's, so giving him a more "ancient" look shouldn't be anything controversial. Luigi is going to be Mr. L regardless, and will probably become the definitive model. Outside of that, Toon Link doesn't need anything more than casual wear imo, and Link is a valid topic of debate. ( I do really want to see something for him, now that the visual aspects of projectiles and weapons can be individually edited.)

Excuse me princess Link!

 

[Kerenthar]

Instead of cra**y Link's differences, could be nice if Link had a Young Link alternate costume. Melee lovers eventually love it.

 

[Vigilante]

Haha, but the question still stands, is it possible to do with Ness?

It would be simpler than some costumes that are being worked on right now. Heck, it would be simpler than Roy's model. So sure.

 

[Amazerommu]

It's been stated enough times now that this is an Alternate Costume Engine... That's Costume, not Character... Unfortunately that means there will most likely be TP Link with a different outfit from that game, and not any Link from a different game. Sad for me cause I definitely like Melee/OoT Link more.

BUT... (probably not likely) they could just replace TP Link with Melee Link altogether and give him either 12 recolors or 6 regular Link colors and 6 Fierce Deity Link recolors...? I'd much rather have that personally... Just sayin. I'm not sure if OoT and MM link are even the same... but I'd be okay with it... MM is a sequel to OoT so I'm assuming they are the same.

 

[Vigilante]

I think alternate versions of the same character are an exception to the rule.

 

[Kerenthar]

I think alternate versions of the same character are an exception to the rule.

This U_U

 

[GunBlaze]

Vigiliante, exactly how is it possible to have an individual character load two different GFX at once? Wouldn't that require FitXX.pac editing, which would mean, theroretically, that Doc is actually another character being loaded?

Still waiting for an answer (anything)

 

[batistabus]

I think alternate versions of the same character are an exception to the rule.

You're probably speaking from some inside knowledge, but I don't agree with this, except maybe in the case of Snake (where Big Boss is a clone and might as well just be snake with a beard and an eyepatch). The different Zelda characters have different artstyles, and it would be extremely jarring to see both types in the same game (among other reasons). Sakurai deciding to go with a certain style is something I think should be respected. I think costumes like that should be left up to the digression of private SD cards.

 

[yogurtgun1245]

You're probably speaking from some inside knowledge, but I don't agree with this, except maybe in the case of Snake (where Big Boss is a clone and might as well just be snake with a beard and an eyepatch). The different Zelda characters have different artstyles, and it would be extremely jarring to see both types in the same game (among other reasons). Sakurai deciding to go with a certain style instead of costume is something I think should stand. I think costumes like that should be left up to the digression of private SD cards.

It could be jarring, but they do have 'physical' model differences. If done the right way they'll blend right in with the rest of the game.

 

[batistabus]

It could be jarring, but they do have 'physical' model differences. If done the right way they'll blend right in with the rest of the game.

I have no doubt that the PMBR could make it look natural in the game, but adding an alternate version of a character is just something that I could never ever see Sakurai (or any professional development team) putting in. It just screams hack to me. If they wanted to put OoT Ganon's outfit on TP Ganon (but maintain TP Ganon's body build and head), that'd be fine. I'm not sure how worth it that would be for someone like Link or Zelda, though.

 

[Octorox]

PMBR here. Any alt costumes we include will look professional and will conform to the general art-style of Brawl and by extension Project M when it comes to the use of color/level of detail/type of shading etc. We are open to including alternate versions of characters as costumes as long as it's still the same character, adheres to the same proportions and can be implemented professionally. While canonically, different versions of Link may technically be different characters, in the eyes of the PMBR, Link is Link. I won't confirm or deny anything on specific costumes though other than Dr. Mario, who we've already revealed.

 

[Wiisnake]

well then How's about Mr. L for Luigi?

 

[yogurtgun1245]

I have no doubt that the PMBR could make it look natural in the game, but adding an alternate version of a character is just something that I could never ever see Sakurai (or any professional development team) putting in. It just screams hack to me. If they wanted to put OoT Ganon's outfit on TP Ganon (but maintain TP Ganon's body build and head), that'd be fine. I'm not sure how worth it that would be for someone like Link or Zelda, though.

I see where you're coming from, the Legend of Zelda characters thankfully are the only ones that I have knowledge of potentially having this issue. If his name was Twilight Princess Link in the game than I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but Link in smash has always stuck out as a mix of every Link incarnation. Him having alternate Links with similar body types is acceptable and doesn't cross any lines in terms of professional protocol.

 

[batistabus]

PMBR here. Any alt costumes we include will look professional and will conform to the general art-style of Brawl and by extension Project M when it comes to the use of color/level of detail/type of shading etc. We are open to including alternate versions of characters as costumes as long as it's still the same character, adheres to the same proportions and can be implemented professionally. While canonically, different versions of Link may technically be different characters, in the eyes of the PMBR, Link is Link. I won't confirm or deny anything on specific costumes though other than Dr. Mario, who we've already revealed.

I respectfully disagree with this for reasons stated above, and because of a general concern of "clutter". I think the identity of the actual Brawl character should be preserved above all.

But hey, I ain't PMBR.

I see where you're coming from, the Legend of Zelda characters thankfully are the only ones that I have knowledge of potentially having this issue. If his name was Twilight Princess Link in the game than I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but Link in smash has always stuck out as a mix of every Link incarnation. Him having alternate Links with similar body types is acceptable and doesn't cross any lines in terms of professional protocol.

Other concerns include the Spacies and "Other M" Samus, along with anyone who has a slightly different design in Melee. Brawl Link was definitely TP Link (outfit, boomerang, voice actor, TP Zelda/Dorf, etc.), but if this was Smash 4 (where he seems to have a unique design), I might be able to see it more.

 

[trojanpooh]

So I get that the costumes are supposed to be costumes and not alt characters, but anyone else think Plusle or Minun would make a fantastic alternate for Pichu?

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

PMBR here. Any alt costumes we include will look professional and will conform to the general art-style of Brawl and by extension Project M when it comes to the use of color/level of detail/type of shading etc. We are open to including alternate versions of characters as costumes as long as it's still the same character, adheres to the same proportions and can be implemented professionally. While canonically, different versions of Link may technically be different characters, in the eyes of the PMBR, Link is Link. I won't confirm or deny anything on specific costumes though other than Dr. Mario, who we've already revealed.

Okay. In that case...Well, I rest my case and concede. XD

And I suppose I'll take back my first suggestion for Mighty over Sonic. I'm guessing that even though he's one of Sonic's conceptual designs, the fact that he still became his own character makes him not a desirable choice by your standards. That's sound logic and I can respect that.

So with that said...Hm, I guess for Sonic I'll stick with what I first said and go back to my second option.

I wouldn't mind something akin to the Legacy Sonic mod from Generations where it's Sonic with different accessories he's worm from SA2 up to Black Knight.

Spoiler

But if that's too much, I'd say go with Mighty. Sonic's playstyle and even his voice still work perfectly with him.

Unfortunately, Sonic is kind of lacking in the alternate costume department outside of his forms, like I've said before, and there really isn't any character in the series that's an alternate version of him, but is still HIM and not an artificial copy.

...Well, in the games, anyway. But the only character who I can think of that IS a literal alternate version of him in appearance (and personality) without being artificial is someone I don't think anyone here would be welcome to.

Spoiler

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=28428[/collapse]

I personally would be, but I'm aware of how a good number of people tend to think here.

 

[XalchemistX]

There needs to be a Heisenberg costume for Snake. Make the grenades Mercury fulminate and the parachute have a Los pollos logo!

 

[Amazerommu]

You're probably speaking from some inside knowledge, but I don't agree with this, except maybe in the case of Snake (where Big Boss is a clone and might as well just be snake with a beard and an eyepatch). The different Zelda characters have different artstyles, and it would be extremely jarring to see both types in the same game (among other reasons). Sakurai deciding to go with a certain style is something I think should be respected. I think costumes like that should be left up to the digression of private SD cards.

Welp! This makes me more positively hopeful for a Melee Link alt!

So I get that the costumes are supposed to be costumes and not alt characters, but anyone else think Plusle or Minun would make a fantastic alternate for Pichu?

I'd say Plusle and Minun themed recolors for Pikachu would be more in line with what the PMBR are aiming for.

P:M 3.0 should come out... like... tomorrow... but last week... I am so overly hyped for this! Roy was brought back with the announcement of a successfull Clone Engine. Didn't think Doc would make it back into P:M because Mario is a hybrid of himself and Doc from Melee... and then ACE is announced (I like that the acronym for this is ACE) and not only does it bring back Doctor Mario. It basically brings back a BETTER Doctor Mario with the lovely pill and electrical effects in place! All these things pretty much turbo dunked on anything I expected from the PMBR... And again. I love you all!

 

[Vigilante]

We love you guys too buddy.

 

[Octorox]

I have no doubt that the PMBR could make it look natural in the game, but adding an alternate version of a character is just something that I could never ever see Sakurai (or any professional development team) putting in. It just screams hack to me. If they wanted to put OoT Ganon's outfit on TP Ganon (but maintain TP Ganon's body build and head), that'd be fine. I'm not sure how worth it that would be for someone like Link or Zelda, though.

I wouldn't be so sure We value your opinion on the matter, but there is certainly precedent for a professional development team to do this sort of thing, at least if Rocksteady counts.

 

[Vashimus]

There needs to be a Heisenberg costume for Snake. Make the grenades Mercury fulminate and the parachute have a Los pollos logo!

I think I should start watching Breaking Bad now.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Double Popo teams and Double Nana teams (keeping in mind Popo generally wears cool colors and Nana warm colors)

Also, Bowser's alt definitely needs to be Dennis Hopper.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

I'm not sure if OoT and MM link are even the same... but I'd be okay with it... MM is a sequel to OoT so I'm assuming they are the same.

Yes, they are the exact same. MM takes place just a few months after OoT.

 

[Onomanic]

I think Melee Fox and Falco with sound FX are definitely justifiable. They're so iconic of Melee!

 

[Nevergreen]

I wouldn't be so sure We value your opinion on the matter, but there is certainly precedent for a professional development team to do this sort of thing, at least if Rocksteady counts.

Batman confirmed.

Also, I think really that most important difference between TP Link and OoT Link is the voice.

SSSSsrrrrrAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!

 

[batistabus]

I wouldn't be so sure We value your opinion on the matter, but there is certainly precedent for a professional development team to do this sort of thing, at least if Rocksteady counts.

Touche. I don't really see anything wrong with that in the context of that game (although I do feel like Injustice went a little overboard with dozens of costumes, zombies included).

As for PM, I still feel it's too different for Smash standards (I still don't think Sakurai would do it), and I feel like it carries the bad taste of a Brawl hack.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to me. Even if you disagree, I'm glad to know you guys are watching.

 

[GigasOverlord]

I don't know why people are going off the deep end on this one. It's either the ACE or Clone Engine blowing up everyone's hype. Anyways, just a couple of ACE ideas. Keep in mind that the suggestions should be alternate forms or appearances of already existing characters instead of characters associated with their home series!

Spoiler

Bowser: Dry Bowser is a no brainer and is the only actual alternate appearance of Bowser, iirc. I'd love a Dark Bowser from Bowser's Inside Story with blue flames, but he is technically a completely different character. If the PMBR actually made a Dark Bowser like that, I'd main Bowser harder than I do now.

Charizard: Mega Charizard Y would probably be the closest, considering that Charizard X's mouth-flame-ribbon things would be very obstructive during an actual match. I don't think that either Mega Charizard will make it in to be honest.

Falco and Fox: They just need Melee skins. Shun_one did an awesome Melee Fox head on Brawl Fox body that I've been using since day one and it looks magnificent.

Ganondorf: Melee Ganondorf would look great redone by PMBR editors, but I have a feeling that it won't be done.

Ike: Vanguard Ike from Radiant Dawn would be amazing. Since the entire model and texture are being edited, they could give him his actual musculature from RD and he'd be jacked.

King Dedede: Masked Dedede would be pretty easy to make, considering they just have to make a mask and a hammer.

Link: Melee Link for everyone! I enjoy his Twilight Princess design, but I just love Melee's Link design.

Lucario: Mega Lucario would be pretty cool, but I can safely say that there is probably gonna be a new Mega Lucario and the one that we've already seen will be Mega Lucario Y.

Lucas: Masked Man would be awesome for people who know the story of Mother 3. I'm still salty about the Brawl trophy ruining the story for people who haven't played it, though...

Luigi: Mr. L would be a neat nod to a great game that not many people played. I also love the character himself because he's so damn goofy.

Marth: King Marth from Fire Emblem Awakening would look really cool. I doubt that Marth will get anything other than recolors if even that.

Meta Knight: Although Beta Meta Knight (Beta Knight?) would look really cool, he just needs some recolors if anything.

Ness: Pyjama Ness would be hilarious and awesome for providing salt. Robot Ness is kinda a spoiler and also would effect his hurtboxes, so he probably wouldn't make it.

Peach: Literally the only thing I can think of for Peach is giving her a ponytail like in some sports games. I don't know if Bike Jumpsuit or Striker's uniform would interfere with her hurtboxes, so I'll conclude that they won't be making it.

Pit: Dark Pit and recolors would be amazing for people who played Uprising. They're still technically the same person, so it'd work.

Samus: Jeez, here comes a spaceship full of armored suits. It would be insane for the PMBR to actually make models for each of her suits. That being said, more accurate recolors for her suits or a Dark Samus alt would be cool.

Snake: Naked Snake alts would be cool, but I don't know how the PMBR feels about shirtless super spies.

Sonic: I was just gonna post a sarcastic Werehog comment, but then I checked the sticker list and Classic Sonic is in there. Classic Sonic would be amazing as an alt.

Squirtle: Just give him alts with permanent sunglasses so I can style hard on my opponents. Please, PMBR. Either that, or increase durability on sunglasses and ignore recolors and alts altogether.

Toon Link: Lobster pyjama Link all the way. Either that, or Young Link with Razor Sword and Heroe's Shield.

Wolf: Classic Star Fox 64 Wolf would be a great alt. It'll also give me a reason to change by RSBE to have British Wolf who starts matches with, "Can't let you do that, Star Fox!"

Zelda: Melee Zelda, blah blah blah.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

Since I haven't heard any mention of it, how about Pigmask Lucas?

Spoiler

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I don't know why people are going off the deep end on this one. It's either the ACE or Clone Engine blowing up everyone's hype. Anyways, just a couple of ACE ideas. Keep in mind that the suggestions should be alternate forms or appearances of already existing characters instead of characters associated with their home series!

Spoiler

Bowser: Dry Bowser is a no brainer and is the only actual alternate appearance of Bowser, iirc. I'd love a Dark Bowser from Bowser's Inside Story with blue flames, but he is technically a completely different character. If the PMBR actually made a Dark Bowser like that, I'd main Bowser harder than I do now.

Charizard: Mega Charizard Y would probably be the closest, considering that Charizard X's mouth-flame-ribbon things would be very obstructive during an actual match. I don't think that either Mega Charizard will make it in to be honest.

Falco and Fox: They just need Melee skins. Shun_one did an awesome Melee Fox head on Brawl Fox body that I've been using since day one and it looks magnificent.

Ganondorf: Melee Ganondorf would look great redone by PMBR editors, but I have a feeling that it won't be done.

Ike: Vanguard Ike from Radiant Dawn would be amazing. Since the entire model and texture are being edited, they could give him his actual musculature from RD and he'd be jacked.

King Dedede: Masked Dedede would be pretty easy to make, considering they just have to make a mask and a hammer.

Link: Melee Link for everyone! I enjoy his Twilight Princess design, but I just love Melee's Link design.

Lucario: Mega Lucario would be pretty cool, but I can safely say that there is probably gonna be a new Mega Lucario and the one that we've already seen will be Mega Lucario Y.

Lucas: Masked Man would be awesome for people who know the story of Mother 3. I'm still salty about the Brawl trophy ruining the story for people who haven't played it, though...

Luigi: Mr. L would be a neat nod to a great game that not many people played. I also love the character himself because he's so damn goofy.

Marth: King Marth from Fire Emblem Awakening would look really cool. I doubt that Marth will get anything other than recolors if even that.

Meta Knight: Although Beta Meta Knight (Beta Knight?) would look really cool, he just needs some recolors if anything.

Ness: Pyjama Ness would be hilarious and awesome for providing salt. Robot Ness is kinda a spoiler and also would effect his hurtboxes, so he probably wouldn't make it.

Peach: Literally the only thing I can think of for Peach is giving her a ponytail like in some sports games. I don't know if Bike Jumpsuit or Striker's uniform would interfere with her hurtboxes, so I'll conclude that they won't be making it.

Pit: Dark Pit and recolors would be amazing for people who played Uprising. They're still technically the same person, so it'd work.

Samus: Jeez, here comes a spaceship full of armored suits. It would be insane for the PMBR to actually make models for each of her suits. That being said, more accurate recolors for her suits or a Dark Samus alt would be cool.

Snake: Naked Snake alts would be cool, but I don't know how the PMBR feels about shirtless super spies.

Sonic: I was just gonna post a sarcastic Werehog comment, but then I checked the sticker list and Classic Sonic is in there. Classic Sonic would be amazing as an alt.

Squirtle: Just give him alts with permanent sunglasses so I can style hard on my opponents. Please, PMBR. Either that, or increase durability on sunglasses and ignore recolors and alts altogether.

Toon Link: Lobster pyjama Link all the way. Either that, or Young Link with Razor Sword and Heroe's Shield.

Wolf: Classic Star Fox 64 Wolf would be a great alt. It'll also give me a reason to change by RSBE to have British Wolf who starts matches with, "Can't let you do that, Star Fox!"

Zelda: Melee Zelda, blah blah blah.

Just to say some things as alternative for this list:

I'm sure a lot of people's first thoughts for Fox and Falco are their Melee looks, but how about trying their Assault looks instead? Though, that wouldn't be as much of a change for Wolf..

For Mega Charizard Y, I agree on the reasoning. One way to please both crowds would to make one of the alternate colors for MCY be MCX's color scheme. Best of both worlds.

For Peach, pretty sure they're already going with Dark Peach from Thousand Year Door.

Everything else, I can pretty much get with. The only thing that makes me cringe is...ugh...Classic Sonic.

Considering the size difference between the two, I just don't see that working out. And seeing him just enlarged to be the same height with the same proportions would be...very strange. Seems like a bit of a nightmare, honestly.

Though maybe if they designed him similar so how he is in CD's animated scenes, or this concept art from Generations

It MIGHT work...Still, I think it's best to stick with something from the era the Sonic we have is in. It'd match and blend in better.

 

[Vigilante]

Wolf: Classic Star Fox 64 Wolf would be a great alt. It'll also give me a reason to change by RSBE to have British Wolf who starts matches with, "Can't let you do that, Star Fox!"

If you get a British Wolf sound pack through RSBE and it sounds good, please PM me about it. I'd like to use it as well for my personal use. I'd be grateful .

I'd also like to say, on characters that don't seem like they'd have viable alts, maybe we'll show just how creative our modellers are .

 

[ItalianStallion]

I just want to jump in and throw in my support for a shiny version of Mewtwo when he is announced. I like green Mewtwo.

Also, the Dr. Mario and Roy models look fantastic! I can't wait to see what other high quality costumes will be revealed! Really amazing work PMBR!

 

[Cubelarooso]

I still don't think Sakurai would do it

How about

Spoiler

or

Spoiler

?
But no one should care about what Sakurai would do, anyway.

I'll back Lucina for Marth if complete voice packs are feasible. Not much more of "a different character" rather than "a different costume" than the Links or Snakes are. We don't yet know if ACE allows for a different name in the text or sounds, but it wouldn't even matter for her. And some more women in the series is an amiable enterprise. Also jokes about Marth already being a girl.

Also female pikachus.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Aren't you guys forgetting a teensy weensy detail? Alt's need to be Post Brawl relative, or have their games referenced if legal trouble is to be avoided. Now, if you guys can stop with a Lucina Alt. and consider Marth's old Mystery of the Emblem design.........

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Would Awakening Marth (the DLC) be fine?

 

[batistabus]

How about?

But no one should care about what Sakurai would do, anyway.

I'm just talking about costumes.

I care =P

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Aren't you guys forgetting a teensy weensy detail? Alt's need to be Post Brawl relative, or have their games referenced if legal trouble is to be avoided. Now, if you guys can stop with a Lucina Alt. and consider Marth's old Mystery of the Emblem design.........

Noooo, that's for Clone Engine stuff. Not ACE stuff.

It was never stated that it was the same case for that one.

Don't try to mix up words to your advantage just to force the thing you want to be considered.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Would Awakening Marth (the DLC) be fine?

Nope. Awakening's Marth is in no way mentioned in Brawl, IE: More Nope.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm always up for Awakening and it's character design, but it's just not open without the red flag of a C&D. And I would take a Lucina/Awakening Marth, Awakening Ike, and Awaking Roy without hesitation if they weren't such a risk to even mention, especially when you consider Project M's general notability among Nintendo Mods.

Noooo, that's for Clone Engine stuff. Not ACE stuff.

It was never stated that it was the same case for that one.


Don't try to mix up words to your advantage just to force the thing you want to be considered.

I'm not mixing words, it's Project M's policy to respect the registered properties of Nintendo, regardless of form, whether it be characters, trophies, etc. Anything that is featured in Brawl, or has valid reference in some way, is fair game. But, this is not applied to games as recent as Awakening, or anything past/not mentioned in Brawl.