PM Arts and Alts Thread

[Shin F.]

It isn't like Villager or Mii Fighter who are not true characters but customizable avatars. Or Wii Fit Trainer who is an artificial hologram instructor that you pick which gender you want it those games. Pikachu is a character who you can't customize in his game beyond the costumes in AS/OR.

Right, but Pokemon aren't true characters, either. They're a species, and thus can come in both genders.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Right, but Pokemon aren't true characters, either. They're a species, and thus can come in both genders.

Some don't even have genders I believe.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Your playable Pokémon is a character to you, and is an individual who was born and breed with their own individual traits, that's what I was getting at. That's like saying, humans are a generic species, and thus come in both genders. Here, female Mario!

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

The Melee versions of characters do have new models, as does classic Pit which also appeared in Melee as a trophy. In theory they are the same character though with a different look from a different game in the series.

Maybe if you took Pokémon breeding out of the equation it doesn't really matter the gender of the Pokémon, but it's hard for me to accept that Pikachu can be both male and female at the same time and be the exact same character.

It isn't like Villager or Mii Fighter who are not true characters but customizable avatars. Or Wii Fit Trainer who is an artificial hologram instructor that you pick which gender you want it those games. Pikachu is a character who you can't customize in his game beyond the costumes in AS/OR.

It's not like Pikachu is any more of a character than WFT or anything. Pikachu is a species, and we're just playing a generic one.

 

[Shin F.]

Some don't even have genders I believe.

Right, some like Mewtwo don't, but most do.

Your playable Pokémon is a character to you, and is an individual, that's what I was getting at. That's like saying, humans are a species, and thus come in both genders. Here, female Mario!

No, it's really not an individual. The ones in Smash are just generic members of the species. If they weren't, then why does the Pikachu with the cap have a red tint to its fur? Why is Lucario a Shiny Lucario in one of his costumes? There's nothing keeping each costume from being a different individual.

I didn't know you could play a Mario game and go out and find like 20 different ones.

 

[Comeback Kid]

I have never though of tint recolors as anything but a visual indicator for Team play, not a different individual.

Sonic gets different colors but even if there is a Hedgehog species (which there is) and even if there was a black Hedgehog named Shadow (which there is) I don't think I'm playing Shadow or one of Sonic's brothers from Sonic Underground.

Likewise, Dark Pit isn't Dark Pit, it's a cosplay recolor.

 

[Rᴏb]

A female pikachu can totally be a possible alt costume, just a ****ing horrible one.

 

[Shin F.]

I have never though of tint recolors as anything but a visual indicator for Team play, not a different individual.

Sonic gets different colors but even if there is a Hedgehog species (which there is) and even if there was a black Hedgehog named Shadow (which there is) I don't think I'm playing Shadow or one of Sonic's brothers from Sonic Underground.

Sonic is a specific character, though. Not so with Pikachu.

But alright, then. If you can prove to me beyond all doubt - meaning you have solid proof that can't be refuted - that the Pikachu in Brawl is a very specific Pikachu from one of the games and not just a generic member of its species, I'll agree that it shouldn't be made female.

To be clear, I don't care to have a female costume myself because it's not something I'll probably even notice, but that doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

 

[Toxicroaker]

Your pretty much saying the same thing he did, which tells me nothing. I need a reason why. Not just "because it can't be done". I'm wondering how things like a cape affect hurtboxes, even though they don't have any themselves. I'm thinking something like that is just out of the PMBR's reach at the moment, not that it can't be done.

I'm sorry for trying to be informed on the subject (posted on the other thread at around the same time as this one, in case no one answered).

Since no one else was planning on informing you, I guess I can shed a little light on the subject. *Warning! I am not 100% sure on this because I know nothing about coding, but I have herd people explain it many times.*
Capes and hair require something called "bones". This allows them to move in certain ways. Bones are placed on the characters themselves and thus can not be added to a costume without all of the costumes having the bones. I believe that it is possible to give a character a cape if you put the bones on all of the costumes and just make the cape invisible on all costumes except the one that you want the cape on, but that takes a lot of coding. Also, if you add a cape without the bones the cape would not move. It would stay straight the entire time and you can imagine how bad that would look. And you may have noticed that Peach's alt. costume has a cape. That is possible because they tied the capes bones to her hair so that they both move in the exact way.
Hopefully I have explained this well enough for you to understand. And again, this may not be 100% accurate because I have never done texture editing.

 

[Shin F.]

Since no one else was planning on informing you, I guess I can shed a little light on the subject. *Warning! I am not 100% sure on this because I know nothing about coding, but I have herd people explain it many times.*
Capes and hair require something called "bones". This allows them to move in certain ways. Bones are placed on the characters themselves and thus can not be added to a costume without all of the costumes having the bones. I believe that it is possible to give a character a cape if you put the bones on all of the costumes and just make the cape invisible on all costumes except the one that you want the cape on, but don't quote me on that. Also, if you add a cape without the bones the cape would not move. It would stay straight the entire time and you can imagine how bad that would look. And you may have noticed that Peach's alt. costume has a cape. That is possible because they tied the capes bones to her hair so that they both move in the exact way.
Hopefully I have explained this well enough for you to understand. And again, this may not be 100% accurate because I have never done texture editing.

It seems you get the basics of animation, but this isn't quite why it isn't done. It's definitely possible to add bones to individual costumes, but doing so can have unintentional effects.

Did you know that there's a bone for when characters pick up items? Items are assigned to the bone so they're held where the bone is assigned, usually the right hand. The thing is, this bone isn't assigned by name, but by its number in the skeleton hierarchy, so if you added a bone before that point in the hierarchy - say, to add a cape - then the item bone no longer has the same ID it once did, and it gets assigned to the wrong one. If you were to add a cape, the character might hold homerun bats on their forehead. Consequently, this messes up their hitboxes. You could add it to the end of the hierarchy, but then it wouldn't move properly with the rest of the body.

I don't know if it's possible to reassign the bone, but this is one way I know of that could mess with things. There might be others. There are also ways around this, but they take much more effort than the average costume import. If you want an example of a costume that added bones and got around this issue with some work-arounds, check out this Infinite Smash Team blog post.

http://infinitesmashteam.com/2014/07/08/space-pirates-beware-green-lanterns-might/

Needless to say, this takes a lot of time and effort, and PMBR have much better things to do than sacrifice their time to add capes for specific costumes when there are other costumes that could work just as easily with less effort.

 

[DarkDeity15]

How about Shadow cosplaying Sonic?

Since no one else was planning on informing you, I guess I can shed a little light on the subject. *Warning! I am not 100% sure on this because I know nothing about coding, but I have herd people explain it many times.*
Capes and hair require something called "bones". This allows them to move in certain ways. Bones are placed on the characters themselves and thus can not be added to a costume without all of the costumes having the bones. I believe that it is possible to give a character a cape if you put the bones on all of the costumes and just make the cape invisible on all costumes except the one that you want the cape on, but that takes a lot of coding. Also, if you add a cape without the bones the cape would not move. It would stay straight the entire time and you can imagine how bad that would look. And you may have noticed that Peach's alt. costume has a cape. That is possible because they tied the capes bones to her hair so that they both move in the exact way.
Hopefully I have explained this well enough for you to understand. And again, this may not be 100% accurate because I have never done texture editing.

Thanks for clarifying. Perhaps the Hyrule Warriors/SS Manga Link are possible. It would just take some work.

However, I'll leave it up to the PMBR on wether they'd actually do it or not.

 

[arcticfox8]

How about Shadow cosplaying Sonic?

They actually deconfirmed that
http://projectmgame.com/en/news/alternate-costumes-blogpost

 

[DarkDeity15]

They actually deconfirmed that
http://projectmgame.com/en/news/alternate-costumes-blogpost

Shadow cosplaying Sonic. Not Shadow over Sonic. But, Shadow might be better off as a clone engine character anyhow.

 

[F. Blue]

It isn't like Villager or Mii Fighter who are not true characters but customizable avatars. Or Wii Fit Trainer who is an artificial hologram instructor that you pick which gender you want it those games. Pikachu is a character who you can't customize in his game beyond the costumes in AS/OR.

It's not like Pikachu is a real character with a personality (this isn't Ash's Pikachu, just a Pikachu). It's just a species. It falls in the same boat as Wii Fit Trainers or Villagers.

 

[theTRUEchamp]

How did this thread get from alternate costume speculation to a debate about Pikachu?

 

[Sour Supreme]

Updated OP,

Fixed a few costumes, and edited the rules.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Updated OP,

Fixed a few costumes, and edited the rules.

I hope you'll be adding the Vatti cosplay for . It's too good to be forgotten lol.

 

[Sour Supreme]

I hope you'll be adding the Vatti cosplay for . It's too good to be forgotten lol.

I will once I'm on PC. Can't hyperlink pictures on mobile

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I remember suggesting a costume of Roy in Eliwoods marquess style robe. I'm just gonna bring that back up. Oh, and we need an adorable Kraid mask for Ridley's alt.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I remember suggesting a costume of Roy in Eliwoods marquess style robe. I'm just gonna bring that back up. Oh, and we need an adorable Kraid mask for Ridley's alt.

Ridley isn't in Project M, and I doubt he will.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Ridley isn't in Project M, and I doubt he will.

SILENCE SQUIRE! LET A FOOL DREAM!!!!

 

[DarkDeity15]

Psykid, you should've named it the "cape conundrum". It makes more sense that way.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Psykid, you should've named it the "cape conundrum". It makes more sense that way.

Haha. Will do. It was a friendly joke.

I remember suggesting a costume of Roy in Eliwoods marquess style robe. I'm just gonna bring that back up. Oh, and we need an adorable Kraid mask for Ridley's alt.

We have Eliwood recolor down. Ian Eliwood cosplay is legitimately the most suggested Roy Alt. I can add it easily.

At this time I'm not able to list alternates for unconfirmed characters.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

In all non-Ridley based seriousness though, Roy with Eliwoods lord attire would be pretty great Imo. Plus it would tie up and awesome Eliwood-Hector costume pair now that Ike's is revealed.

 

[Sour Supreme]

In all non-Ridley based seriousness though, Roy with Eliwoods lord attire would be pretty great Imo. Plus it would tie up and awesome Eliwood-Hector costume pair now that Ike's is revealed.

Ooh. That is true.

Personally though, as a Roy main, I want a Leif cosplay more than anything. That would be so much badassery. They'd probably remove his headband like they did with Sigurd Marth, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Regardless, I'd like to see Eliwood or Leif.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Haha. Will do. It was a friendly joke.

We have Eliwood recolor down. Ian Eliwood cosplay is legitimately the most suggested Roy Alt. I can add it easily.

At this time I'm not able to list alternates for unconfirmed characters.

Whoa. I actually hadn't realized you named it after me until recently lol. In that case, keep it if you want.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Whoa. I actually hadn't realized you named it after me until recently lol. In that case, keep it if you want.

Haha, alright.

 

[TheLostSabre]

How did this thread get from alternate costume speculation to a debate about Pikachu?

Sorry, my fault I guess. I unintentionally derailed the topic.

 

[Nanobuds]

Thanks for clarifying. Perhaps the Hyrule Warriors/SS Manga Link are possible. It would just take some work.

However, I'll leave it up to the PMBR on wether they'd actually do it or not.

Adding bones will mess with the bone indexes, throwing off everything in the character's coding (including the possibility of hitboxes)

If you need me to explain why that happens, shoot me a PM.

There is your answer.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Adding bones will mess with the bone indexes, throwing off everything in the character's coding.

There is your answer.

I already got my answer from other users. It can be done, but it's not worth the effort.

 

[Nanobuds]

I somehow missed Shin's explanation. He got it explained perfectly. My bad.

 

[CBO0tz]

I feel as though this should replace PM Sonic's green palette.

Its not a fan Sonic clone, its just a result of a graphics glitch in Sonic 2.

 

[Sour Supreme]

If you were to add a cape, the character might hold homerun bats on their forehead.

WHAAAT. @ Nanobuds , on behalf of the Smash Community I am requesting that every character be given a cape. Project M will not be complete until every character is wielding wooden bats with their forehead.

 

[Malion]

I'm not sure why people think Female pikachu would be too much of a different character. In that regard then every Yoshi is a different coloured yoshi and is thus a entirely separate Yoshi.

Also each Link is a different Link especially DARK LINK. lol

 

[TheLostSabre]

Poor Retro Toon Link gets no mention...

 

[Toxicroaker]

It seems you get the basics of animation, but this isn't quite why it isn't done. It's definitely possible to add bones to individual costumes, but doing so can have unintentional effects.

Did you know that there's a bone for when characters pick up items? Items are assigned to the bone so they're held where the bone is assigned, usually the right hand. The thing is, this bone isn't assigned by name, but by its number in the skeleton hierarchy, so if you added a bone before that point in the hierarchy - say, to add a cape - then the item bone no longer has the same ID it once did, and it gets assigned to the wrong one. If you were to add a cape, the character might hold homerun bats on their forehead. Consequently, this messes up their hitboxes. You could add it to the end of the hierarchy, but then it wouldn't move properly with the rest of the body.

I don't know if it's possible to reassign the bone, but this is one way I know of that could mess with things. There might be others. There are also ways around this, but they take much more effort than the average costume import. If you want an example of a costume that added bones and got around this issue with some work-arounds, check out this Infinite Smash Team blog post.

http://infinitesmashteam.com/2014/07/08/space-pirates-beware-green-lanterns-might/

Needless to say, this takes a lot of time and effort, and PMBR have much better things to do than sacrifice their time to add capes for specific costumes when there are other costumes that could work just as easily with less effort.

Oh, thank you for the info. While I previously said that I don't do coding or remodels of any kind, I do plan on learning how in the near future. This may come in handy later on, and even if it doesn't I still found it interesting.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Not to dwell on this FOREVER, but there is one particular character named Yoshi who Mario rides and is colored green and is the star of the games. There is a species named Yoshi too. There is zero contradiction there. So even if say Kirby and Yoshi are both part of a multi-colored species named Kirbys and Yoshies, and have many of those colors represented in Smash, every recolored Kirby/Yoshi in Smash is still the same famous Kirby/Yoshi we all know with the same famous moveset.

It's ridiculous to think a recolor of Pokémon/Kirby/Yoshi that has the EXACT same animations, moves, and stats is an entirely different character, but I don't think I could possibly convince some of you of that so I'll drop it here.

 

[F. Blue]

Not to dwell on this FOREVER, but there is one particular character named Yoshi who Mario rides and is colored green and is the star of the games. There is a species named Yoshi too. There is zero contradiction there. So even if say Kirby and Yoshi are both part of a multi-colored species named Kirbys and Yoshies, and have many of those colors represented in Smash, every recolored Kirby/Yoshi in Smash is still the same famous Kirby/Yoshi we all know with the same famous moveset.

It's ridiculous to think a recolor of Pokémon/Kirby/Yoshi that has the EXACT same animations, moves, and stats is an entirely different character, but I don't think I could possibly convince some of you of that so I'll drop it here.

Is the Pikachu that wears Ash's hat (implied to be Ash's Pikachu) the same as the one that wears Pichu's goggles (implied to be evolved from Melee Pichu)?

What I'm saying is that this is a dumb argument and who cares?

 

[KoolKai]

I don't know if this would work but I would really like to see a Big Boss in trenchcoat alt for Snake. It may mess with hurtboxes but maybe it could work..... Either that or the Peacewalker Big Boss already listed in the OP. Anyways, here's a pic:

 

[Sour Supreme]

Is the Pikachu that wears Ash's hat (implied to be Ash's Pikachu) the same as the one that wears Pichu's goggles (implied to be evolved from Melee Pichu)?

What I'm saying is that this is a dumb argument and who cares?

You've countered a dumb argument with a dumb argument, consdiering that is not Ash's hat. That's actually Red's hat from the Pokemon games, similarly to how his green costume has the Emerald protagonist's headband.

I personally view Smash Bros. as having one single Pikachu, and Yoshi alike. The gender of the Pikachu, however, has never been something set in stone. So, seeing as we'll never know one way or another, and the OR and SA costumes are unlikely,

/pikachudiscussion.

Thanks.